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Post by jgordon1 on Jul 6, 2016 19:38:35 GMT -6
There is a writer out there (no need to mention who) that I like to read occasionally. In his bio it says he was a college asst coach. I went to look him up to find out who he coached with, what position etc, could not find any info on him. I DM'd him and asked him about it..He told me he was an offensive/defensive intern and was also a video coordinator depending on the year..he said he did on the field coaching, worked in the press box on game day and other tasks...So, would you consider it ok to list yourself as an assistant college coach? What if he was a grad assistant?
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Post by dytmook on Jul 6, 2016 19:50:34 GMT -6
Guess it depends on who you are. For you and I we know the difference between the roles. I think most of the general public thinks anyone who gets to stand on the sideline or in the press box is a football genius. When in fact they were just a gopher and cone setter upper. Not that there are anything wrong with those things. Have to start somewhere. I started as a scout. I didn't call myself a coach until the head coach referred to me as one for what it is worth.
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Post by hunhdisciple on Jul 6, 2016 20:50:04 GMT -6
Maybe? I don't know. I mean, I don't have any problems with someone like that saying they were a college coach. But, learning their job description would make me have one of those "Oh! That kind of coach. Got it!"
But, I don't think I count a GA as a coach. They're a GA.
I don't know. Maybe they're both coaches. Maybe neither are actual coaches.
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Post by fantom on Jul 6, 2016 21:28:26 GMT -6
Maybe? I don't know. I mean, I don't have any problems with someone like that saying they were a college coach. But, learning their job description would make me have one of those "Oh! That kind of coach. Got it!" But, I don't think I count a GA as a coach. They're a GA. I don't know. Maybe they're both coaches. Maybe neither are actual coaches. Wait a minute. At a lot of places a GA does more actual coaching than higher paid guys.
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Post by ahall005 on Jul 6, 2016 21:32:57 GMT -6
GA's at the small college level are position coaches in a lot of place
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Post by PIGSKIN11 on Jul 6, 2016 22:09:23 GMT -6
if a tee ball baseball dad who basically herds kids/cats can call himself a coach - so can that guy... haha
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Post by agap on Jul 6, 2016 23:10:32 GMT -6
When I played, the GA's were position coaches, ran the scout team, did recruiting, and a bunch of other things. They basically did most things all the other coaches did.
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Post by CS on Jul 7, 2016 4:50:45 GMT -6
IDK. He never said GA he said intern. If he coached a position he most likely would have mentioned it.
I guess it depends on how he packages his words. If he's claiming to be some sort of guru on either side with a brand new face melter to sale/show you that would most definitely be unethical in my book.
If he's just saying that he's a college coach for so n so university here is what I know that's fine IMO.
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Post by jgordon1 on Jul 7, 2016 6:28:31 GMT -6
I don't know either, maybe i am just a curmudgeon, this guy was on the FCS level, he was an intern, the rules are (at least at the FBS level) is that the only guys actually allowed to coach are the listed coaches and GA's..I don't know what he actually did. It just seems to me, its another 1/2 truth. If he said he was a college assistant as opposed to an assistant coach, I would think that is more truthful... maybe when the season starts up again I won't have so much time to think about stupid things..maybe I need a life LOL
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 7, 2016 6:49:42 GMT -6
Maybe? I don't know. I mean, I don't have any problems with someone like that saying they were a college coach. But, learning their job description would make me have one of those "Oh! That kind of coach. Got it!" But, I don't think I count a GA as a coach. They're a GA. I don't know. Maybe they're both coaches. Maybe neither are actual coaches. As others have mentioned, in many smaller schools, GAs are full position coaches. In fact, in some smaller schools they probably are MUCH more of a coach than other position coaches because those other guys are part time coaches who show up to practice after working another job. Also keep in mind that in bigger schools (even BCS POWER 5 SCHOOLS) GA positions were often filled by former position coaches inbetween jobs. It was becoming such a common practice that the NCAA changed the rules. jgordon1 Did he assist the head coach? Was this head coach presiding over a college football team? Then for the purposes of a bio entry, saying college asst coach seems quite appropriate. It might more accurately convey his value and contributions to the team. My first break into college coaching was as a "student assistant" at an FCS school. Basically "Free Labor" probably sounds about the same as "intern" right? So everyone has a picture in their mind as to what that means. B the 2nd week of camp I was running the defensive scout team as well as cutting up offensive and defensive film, making film exchanges, coordinating all the video etc. By 1st game I was meeting separately with Centers and Guards, monitoring their academics working separately with them during parts of individual time, and had my own recruiting area. I was still "a student assistant" in title. In reality, I was an unpaid position coach. And from reading a lot of posts here, "That kind of coach" in many places could be much more qualified than many of the posters on this site.
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Post by blb on Jul 7, 2016 6:53:32 GMT -6
Maybe? I don't know. I mean, I don't have any problems with someone like that saying they were a college coach. But, learning their job description would make me have one of those "Oh! That kind of coach. Got it!" But, I don't think I count a GA as a coach. They're a GA. I don't know. Maybe they're both coaches. Maybe neither are actual coaches.
'GA' stands for Graduate Assistant COACH.
There are more roles-duties in coaching than calling plays.
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Post by fantom on Jul 7, 2016 7:23:40 GMT -6
I don't know either, maybe i am just a curmudgeon, this guy was on the FCS level, he was an intern, the rules are (at least at the FBS level) is that the only guys actually allowed to coach are the listed coaches and GA's..I don't know what he actually did. It just seems to me, its another 1/2 truth. If he said he was a college assistant as opposed to an assistant coach, I would think that is more truthful... maybe when the season starts up again I won't have so much time to think about stupid things..maybe I need a life LOL So, ask him.
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Post by jgordon1 on Jul 7, 2016 12:09:41 GMT -6
Maybe? I don't know. I mean, I don't have any problems with someone like that saying they were a college coach. But, learning their job description would make me have one of those "Oh! That kind of coach. Got it!" But, I don't think I count a GA as a coach. They're a GA. I don't know. Maybe they're both coaches. Maybe neither are actual coaches. As others have mentioned, in many smaller schools, GAs are full position coaches. In fact, in some smaller schools they probably are MUCH more of a coach than other position coaches because those other guys are part time coaches who show up to practice after working another job. Also keep in mind that in bigger schools (even BCS POWER 5 SCHOOLS) GA positions were often filled by former position coaches inbetween jobs. It was becoming such a common practice that the NCAA changed the rules. jgordon1 Did he assist the head coach? Was this head coach presiding over a college football team? Then for the purposes of a bio entry, saying college asst coach seems quite appropriate. It might more accurately convey his value and contributions to the team. My first break into college coaching was as a "student assistant" at an FCS school. Basically "Free Labor" probably sounds about the same as "intern" right? So everyone has a picture in their mind as to what that means. B the 2nd week of camp I was running the defensive scout team as well as cutting up offensive and defensive film, making film exchanges, coordinating all the video etc. By 1st game I was meeting separately with Centers and Guards, monitoring their academics working separately with them during parts of individual time, and had my own recruiting area. I was still "a student assistant" in title. In reality, I was an unpaid position coach. And from reading a lot of posts here, "That kind of coach" in many places could be much more qualified than many of the posters on this site. this is probably most accurate
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Post by hunhdisciple on Jul 7, 2016 12:19:32 GMT -6
Maybe? I don't know. I mean, I don't have any problems with someone like that saying they were a college coach. But, learning their job description would make me have one of those "Oh! That kind of coach. Got it!" But, I don't think I count a GA as a coach. They're a GA. I don't know. Maybe they're both coaches. Maybe neither are actual coaches. Wait a minute. At a lot of places a GA does more actual coaching than higher paid guys. I think that's 100% valid, and I'm kind of willing to walk back on a GA not being a coach statement. I've known a few guys who were at smaller schools, and there's no way I would have considered them a coach. And I think I'd have to agree with the statement made here that if a little league dad who just herds kids around is a coach, most people at any higher level could be called coach.
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benr
Freshmen Member
Posts: 91
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Post by benr on Jul 7, 2016 13:56:15 GMT -6
I've been volunteering at a D1 school this spring and summer and their GAs and QC coaches are very much involved as assistant coaches. Each one has a specific position group they work with and they're as hands on as the official position coach so I wouldn't have any problem at all with them calling themselves college coaches.
I know who the OP is referring to and I would definitely consider that writer a former college coach.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jul 7, 2016 16:03:07 GMT -6
I mean, on the field maybe he didn't do anything, but he probably ran meetings, did offseason film work, whatever. He's not listing a specific position that's false. It's maybe a slight exaggeration but I don't think it's at all a lie.
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Post by breakerdog on Jul 23, 2016 5:43:30 GMT -6
There is most likely a marketing angle here too. The people on this board are generally all pretty well versed in how a coaching staff works and the differences between a position coach, coaching intern or GA. We don't represent the "majority" and from a $$ angle we aren't the target audience. You cannot be really profitable marketing to a small niche group.
The writer / blogger in question is most likely doing his best to look authoritative on football to the average consumer.
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Post by blb on Jul 23, 2016 6:02:54 GMT -6
jgordon1, what kind of "writing" does he do?
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 23, 2016 7:32:16 GMT -6
There is most likely a marketing angle here too. The people on this board are generally all pretty well versed in how a coaching staff works and the differences between a position coach, coaching intern or GA. We don't represent the "majority" and from a $$ angle we aren't the target audience. You cannot be really profitable marketing to a small niche group. The writer / blogger in question is most likely doing his best to look authoritative on football to the average consumer. An excellent point--given that in nearly all fictional representations of a football team, be it highschool/college/pro... the only coach the kids have is the head coach. Worst example is probably Varsity Blues...where the HC quits so the injured Sr. QB takes over..
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Post by jgordon1 on Jul 23, 2016 14:10:23 GMT -6
jgordon1 , what kind of "writing" does he do? He writes little teaser articles always wanting to sell his books. The articles are pretty good and enjoy reading them from time to time. I don't want to call out the guy I was just curious what others thought. when I first started reading him he claimed he was a retired coach which I guess he is. I was thinking he might be an oldtimer like phantom or OJW or like me lol. I found out he is lessmthan 30 which I guess was weird. anyway the bottom line is I like his stuff so I guess he can say what he wants
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Post by Chris Clement on Jul 24, 2016 6:58:18 GMT -6
Sounds like you might be mostly annoyed at yourself for agreeing with some whippersnapper.
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Post by jgordon1 on Jul 24, 2016 11:29:21 GMT -6
Sounds like you might be mostly annoyed at yourself for agreeing with some whippersnapper. no not really...I'll take info anyway I can get it....I am a curmudgeon that doesn't really appreciate people bragging on themselves...I get it though..he got a job to do..people obviously buy his stuff..Like my mama always says..If you don't have something nice to say..don't say nothing at all
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Post by John Knight on Jul 25, 2016 16:10:24 GMT -6
Morehead State (FCS – KY): Morehead State University is seeking multiple unpaid intern positions. These positions are available to those aspiring to get into the coaching profession. We are looking for offense, defense, special teams and operations interns. These positions include no housing, meals, or stipend. You will gain experience and knowledge in working within a Division I FCS football program. The person in these positions will be responsible for assisting a coordinator and position coach with different aspects of coaching. They will also assist the recruiting coordinator with on campus recruiting events, and other duties as assigned by the Head Coach. Playing experience, along with video editing is preferred but not required. Strong communication and computer skills are required. Please send cover letter, resume, and 3 references to Milo Austin (Director of Football Operations) at a.austin@moreheadstate.edu. Review of applications will begin immediately and the positions will be filled immediately. footballscoop.com/the-scoop/
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Post by Chris Clement on Jul 25, 2016 16:56:23 GMT -6
Morehead State (FCS – KY): Morehead State University is seeking multiple unpaid intern positions. These positions are available to those aspiring to get into the coaching profession. We are looking for offense, defense, special teams and operations interns. These positions include no housing, meals, or stipend. You will gain experience and knowledge in working within a Division I FCS football program. The person in these positions will be responsible for assisting a coordinator and position coach with different aspects of coaching. They will also assist the recruiting coordinator with on campus recruiting events, and other duties as assigned by the Head Coach. Playing experience, along with video editing is preferred but not required. Strong communication and computer skills are required. Please send cover letter, resume, and 3 references to Milo Austin (Director of Football Operations) at a.austin@moreheadstate.edu. Review of applications will begin immediately and the positions will be filled immediately. footballscoop.com/the-scoop/Wrong thread?
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 25, 2016 18:58:22 GMT -6
Morehead State (FCS – KY): Morehead State University is seeking multiple unpaid intern positions. These positions are available to those aspiring to get into the coaching profession. We are looking for offense, defense, special teams and operations interns. These positions include no housing, meals, or stipend. You will gain experience and knowledge in working within a Division I FCS football program. The person in these positions will be responsible for assisting a coordinator and position coach with different aspects of coaching. They will also assist the recruiting coordinator with on campus recruiting events, and other duties as assigned by the Head Coach. Playing experience, along with video editing is preferred but not required. Strong communication and computer skills are required. Please send cover letter, resume, and 3 references to Milo Austin (Director of Football Operations) at a.austin@moreheadstate.edu. Review of applications will begin immediately and the positions will be filled immediately. footballscoop.com/the-scoop/Wrong thread? I can't speak for John Knight but it appears to be a job description of an intern...which seemed to be the desire of the initial post and reasonableness for one who performed that job to call themselves a college coach.
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Post by cenglish56 on Jul 25, 2016 19:32:27 GMT -6
I cannot speak for the individual that initially prompted the reason for this discussion I think a part of the answer to the initial question should be based on where you coached and what you did. After playing colleg ball at an NAIA school I coached college ball for 3 years. Small college ball NAIA and division 3. I was far from an expert on football after those three years, I am far from an expert now when I've been coaching for 16 years. However, I learned a ton over those three years. At times even though it did not allow me to break into a division 1 position I feel like I learned more coaching at those two small schools as I had to do multiple things where at larger schools many jobs are very specialized. I was a position coach (and worked with special teams), I've been on the road recruiting (went through the full ncaa testing process), I hosted students and their parents, I helped run a strength and conditioning program, I dealt with video breakdown and coordinated trade, supervised equipment and did many things that a operations coach does such as coordinating meals and hotels. Depending on where you coached and what where responsible for in many instances you can get a wealth of knowledge just by being a lower person on a coaching staff. Once again not an expert (I read through things on this website all the time) but none of us should pass ourselves off as football geniuses once you know a lot it's apparent as others will seek you out.
As an example Coach Gordon ,I love the under front book and the website.
cenglish56
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Post by cenglish56 on Jul 25, 2016 19:33:30 GMT -6
FYI, I was listed as a GA and a Restricted Earnings Coach over those years.
cenglish56
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 25, 2016 19:44:34 GMT -6
FYI, I was listed as a GA and a Restricted Earnings Coach over those years. cenglish56 I guess the question would be--would you have introduced yourself as a "college football coach". I certainly would. I agree with what you typed above and would confidently add that on average someone working as an intern/GA etc at Non BCS schools have done significantly more "coaching" (regardless of title) than an intern or GA at a BCS (particularly power 5) school. So if someone told me they interned/GA'd at a small school I have no probably with them saying they were a college coach. If they GA'd at BCS / Power 5--still no real problem--but you know they didn't do a ton of player instruction, player meetings, film sessions etc. If they interned at BCS/POWER 5...they may not have spent most of their time performing what people would say were "coaching duties"
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Post by John Knight on Jul 25, 2016 19:44:53 GMT -6
my post was as described. Showing what an intern is.
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Post by coachks on Jul 25, 2016 19:46:49 GMT -6
Its a lie; in the context that he is presenting it (too people in that field, in order to sell a product) it's an exaggeration meant to imply he is more experienced then he is. He wasn't a college coach anymore then I coached for the Detroit Lions when I worked some youth camps. I mean, my check did say "coach" and came from the Detroit Lions..... do I list have NFL experience on my resume now? I mean, I worked with NFL players (they showed up to the camps....).
To me, the answer is pretty cut and dry - Who did you coach for? If that answer isn't Position X for School Y for Years Z... then he wasn't a coach. I once coached with an "intern" who REGULARLY drew up scout cards or showed us plays that his school ran with the wrong number of players on the field and talked about all the guys they had recruited that ran Sub 4 40s.
With all that said - If the articles are good then it shouldn't matter if he has college experience or not. But It's a lie meant to separate people from their money. I definitely have a problem with that.
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