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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 1, 2016 10:17:11 GMT -6
shocktroop34 I support your decision 100%. Hindsight is 20/20 and you're right it's possible you might have been able to calm the kid down and keep him in the mix or it could have been like a situation I had once as a young head coach. I tried to reel a kid back in and he was just going crazy. I didn't have time to deal with it right then as I needed to get a kick team ready and then put my defense on the field. I was also getting frustrated with him and in the heat of the moment was about to pop off on him. So I said "Son we will talk about all of that later, but I have to turn you over to coach X right now". Coach X tries to calm the kid down and the kid is just going crazy. Eventually coach X lost his cool and got the kid straight. Nothing too crazy, but enough that parents from the kid's "group" didn't like this "newcomer from another group" treating their son like that. I had to fight tooth and nail to keep his job. Wildest thing another coach from "their group" blew up on a kid from "outside of their group" and was costing us penalties and almost got me tossed for going off on a referee after already taking a penalty. The "group" had no problem with this. I have always been pretty good about reeling kids back in, but sometimes they are just "on one" and can't be reached in the moment. One thing to keep in mind is the good of the kid can overtake what is good for the KIDS if we allow it to. I've worked with a lot of kids who have in the heat of a "moment" tried their best to get a coach fired. LOL Wow Coach...that's a lot of "groups" to manage. lol.
I don't want to hijack the thread into player behavior, but player behavior was a part of the circumstances. The loss itself was tough because of the opportunity to beat a team that were literally 50:1 favorites.
Sounds like we've both learned from our days as young bucks.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 1, 2016 10:20:53 GMT -6
It's just not in my nature to ignore open disrespect. I think what I think about most is what I could have said to him to quell the situation in order to prevent him from getting more mad or continuing to harbor that anger.
Given the situation, it was intense on the sidelines, as you can imagine. In my haste to get back to the game, I dismissed how angry he actually was instead of calming him down and letting him know how important he was to us at that particular moment time.
We might have lost the game anyway because they were just that good.
Disrespect or emotion? Now you're splitting hairs. At that point in time, given the circumstances, I didn't have time to play Dr. Phil.
Emotion, especially when displayed negatively, can be interpreted as disrespect and the differentiation is too minimal to separate.
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Post by coachjo14 on Jul 1, 2016 10:26:37 GMT -6
Yes sir lol. I could simplify the groups into 2 probably with some subsets as the "in crowd" saw it. "Good ol' boys and their kin" and "everyone else".
Kid from "everyone else" is yelling on the sideline? He is a disgrace and should be banished from the team! Senior from "GOB&TK" gets rocked by a freshman at practice and gets butthurt about it so he tries to fight the kid, gets thumped, quits, storms off, and "GOB&TK" wants to know why he is suspended upon being allowed back on the team... "WHUT?" lol.
There is no substitute for experience boss.
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Post by fantom on Jul 1, 2016 10:42:14 GMT -6
Now you're splitting hairs. At that point in time, given the circumstances, I didn't have time to play Dr. Phil.
Emotion, especially when displayed negatively, can be interpreted as disrespect and the differentiation is too minimal to separate.
Leadership is all about splitting hairs. You didn't see him throw the helmet? It wasn't in your face? Didn't happen. I learned a long time ago that I don't want to see and hear everything around me especially during games.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 1, 2016 11:14:01 GMT -6
Now you're splitting hairs. At that point in time, given the circumstances, I didn't have time to play Dr. Phil.
Emotion, especially when displayed negatively, can be interpreted as disrespect and the differentiation is too minimal to separate.
Leadership is all about splitting hairs. You didn't see him throw the helmet? It wasn't in your face? Didn't happen. I learned a long time ago that I don't want to see and hear everything around me especially during games. Whether I saw his actions or not is irrelevant. It was enough to prompt me to act.
If he openly disrespects me, and I put him back in the game, then that tells the team that I'm willing to ignore certain things in order to win a game. What positive life lesson is that teaching a kid? That behavior also has the potential to create a domino effect. Any number of other players say to themselves, 'well if he can do that, so can I.' Not a trend I'm willing to accept.
On the other hand, if I try to diffuse a situation, and it continues to grow, the player has to understand there are consequences for his actions. He learned that lesson, which is more important to me than a game.
When he yelled at me, I interpreted that as emotion. When a helmet in bounced off the ground, I interpret that as disrespect.
Most coaches understand that you don't want to hear everything players say in the huddle, in the locker room, or every time they are in the corn fields drinking beer. But, there are also times when certain actions are more important than the final score. This was one of those times.
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Post by dblwngr on Jul 1, 2016 15:56:25 GMT -6
Zero to zero game with a good conference rival through nearly 4 qtrs. They score late in the 4th, get a punt block and are about to score from the 5 again and its 4th down. We call a TO and I give a huddle speach about winning one snap, etc, etc, get the strip, ect......AND WE FRIGGN FORCE A FUMBLE AND RECOVER ON THE 2. Inspired by our defense, we drive 98 yards in 2 minutes, score a TD and decide to go for 2 for the win with the fake extra point we've been practicing for weeks! Now was the time! We fake the kick, flip to our wing around the end for the run/pass option, HE RUNS IN UNTOUCHED............... ........ inverted whistle....no play.....ref says, "I'm so sorry coach, I blew that call", so sorry, my bad....we vomit in our own mouths...reply the extra point...get stuffed...game over we lose 6 to 7 I have no words for that. I might have fought everyone. The thing was, we had by far our favorite officiating crew. Knew them all by name and they always had done a good job. Ran into the white hat at a sports pub a few weeks after, he could hardly look me in the eye. I guessing they felt pretty dumpy about the whole thing......not as dumpy as us....but dumpy.
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Post by coachjo14 on Jul 1, 2016 17:38:27 GMT -6
dblwngrThey might have had to get the law to get him out of some of the schools I have worked at!
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Post by s73 on Jul 1, 2016 18:35:51 GMT -6
It was so tough, I don't even like talking about it. That's how tough it was.
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Post by fantom on Jul 1, 2016 22:09:18 GMT -6
Leadership is all about splitting hairs. You didn't see him throw the helmet? It wasn't in your face? Didn't happen. I learned a long time ago that I don't want to see and hear everything around me especially during games. Whether I saw his actions or not is irrelevant. It was enough to prompt me to act.
If he openly disrespects me, and I put him back in the game, then that tells the team that I'm willing to ignore certain things in order to win a game. What positive life lesson is that teaching a kid? That behavior also has the potential to create a domino effect. Any number of other players say to themselves, 'well if he can do that, so can I.' Not a trend I'm willing to accept.
On the other hand, if I try to diffuse a situation, and it continues to grow, the player has to understand there are consequences for his actions. He learned that lesson, which is more important to me than a game.
When he yelled at me, I interpreted that as emotion. When a helmet in bounced off the ground, I interpret that as disrespect.
Most coaches understand that you don't want to hear everything players say in the huddle, in the locker room, or every time they are in the corn fields drinking beer. But, there are also times when certain actions are more important than the final score. This was one of those times.
The way I would have handled it (right or wrong) would be: After the situation had settled down I'd have asked another to bring him over. When he came over I expect the talk to go like this: Me: "You know, some would consider that disrespectful" Him: "I know, Coach. I won't do it again. " Me: "OK don't."
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Post by 44dlcoach on Jul 1, 2016 22:31:43 GMT -6
Whether I saw his actions or not is irrelevant. It was enough to prompt me to act.
If he openly disrespects me, and I put him back in the game, then that tells the team that I'm willing to ignore certain things in order to win a game. What positive life lesson is that teaching a kid? That behavior also has the potential to create a domino effect. Any number of other players say to themselves, 'well if he can do that, so can I.' Not a trend I'm willing to accept.
On the other hand, if I try to diffuse a situation, and it continues to grow, the player has to understand there are consequences for his actions. He learned that lesson, which is more important to me than a game.
When he yelled at me, I interpreted that as emotion. When a helmet in bounced off the ground, I interpret that as disrespect.
Most coaches understand that you don't want to hear everything players say in the huddle, in the locker room, or every time they are in the corn fields drinking beer. But, there are also times when certain actions are more important than the final score. This was one of those times.
The way I would have handled it (right or wrong) would be: After the situation had settled down I'd have asked another to bring him over. When he came over I expect the talk to go like this: Me: "You know, some would consider that disrespectful" Him: "I know, Coach. I won't do it again. " Me: "OK don't." This is generally speaking how I'd handle it too with the caveat that the player's prior actions, which we don't know in this scenario, would play a role in my decision making also. Every situations is handled fairly but every situation is not handled equally.
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Post by rsmith627 on Jul 2, 2016 7:02:57 GMT -6
The way I would have handled it (right or wrong) would be: After the situation had settled down I'd have asked another to bring him over. When he came over I expect the talk to go like this: Me: "You know, some would consider that disrespectful" Him: "I know, Coach. I won't do it again. " Me: "OK don't." This is generally speaking how I'd handle it too with the caveat that the player's prior actions, which we don't know in this scenario, would play a role in my decision making also. Every situations is handled fairly but every situation is not handled equally. It's easy to say what we think is the right way to handle it on a forum. I agree with you guys 100%. I also know that I get so heated during games that I probably would have lost it, cussed the kid out, told him to turn in his chit, etc.
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Post by fantom on Jul 2, 2016 9:55:21 GMT -6
The way I would have handled it (right or wrong) would be: After the situation had settled down I'd have asked another to bring him over. When he came over I expect the talk to go like this: Me: "You know, some would consider that disrespectful" Him: "I know, Coach. I won't do it again. " Me: "OK don't." This is generally speaking how I'd handle it too with the caveat that the player's prior actions, which we don't know in this scenario, would play a role in my decision making also. Every situations is handled fairly but every situation is not handled equally. True.
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Post by coachjo14 on Jul 2, 2016 10:33:40 GMT -6
Whether I saw his actions or not is irrelevant. It was enough to prompt me to act.
If he openly disrespects me, and I put him back in the game, then that tells the team that I'm willing to ignore certain things in order to win a game. What positive life lesson is that teaching a kid? That behavior also has the potential to create a domino effect. Any number of other players say to themselves, 'well if he can do that, so can I.' Not a trend I'm willing to accept.
On the other hand, if I try to diffuse a situation, and it continues to grow, the player has to understand there are consequences for his actions. He learned that lesson, which is more important to me than a game.
When he yelled at me, I interpreted that as emotion. When a helmet in bounced off the ground, I interpret that as disrespect.
Most coaches understand that you don't want to hear everything players say in the huddle, in the locker room, or every time they are in the corn fields drinking beer. But, there are also times when certain actions are more important than the final score. This was one of those times.
The way I would have handled it (right or wrong) would be: After the situation had settled down I'd have asked another to bring him over. When he came over I expect the talk to go like this: Me: "You know, some would consider that disrespectful" Him: "I know, Coach. I won't do it again. " Me: "OK don't." Quick thought. In the story there were about 90 seconds left in the game. When do you envision this calming period and conversation? I imagine that after the game the coach and played woorked it out. However, at such a critical point in the game and without a lot of time do you see this angry teenager calming down, then you having time to send for him, and speak to him with time still on the clock? Is this after the game in your mind? If it is after the game did you ignore it and put him back in the game or did he sit and watch the outcome? Look forward to your response.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 2, 2016 11:36:25 GMT -6
coachjo14 never ceases to amaze me how some threads can take a left turn, but you hit the nail on the head. Time was an absolute factor in how the situation was dealt with. In regard to the responses, I will chalk it up to the fact that no one, other than myself, was there, and the intensity of the moment may not be truly appreciated or fully understood in a short online post. We worked it out and the young man ended up making the All-State team.
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Post by coachjo14 on Jul 2, 2016 13:32:33 GMT -6
shocktroop34 Trust me I'm with you. I don't see anything wrong with your decision. Everyone of us has been faced with the kinds of decisions with little to no time to go through every possible angle. I was asking my questions more towards the quote of fantom. I'm glad everything got straight. Its funny how some of the kids I had to stress the most about and correct the most ended up being the kids who keep in touch with me the most and still ask for advice.
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coachpsl
Sophomore Member
“Don’t Cuss. Don’t argue with officials. And don’t lose the game.” -John Heisman
Posts: 197
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Post by coachpsl on Jul 3, 2016 11:59:24 GMT -6
Toughest loss-left a program and a staff who I really respected to become DC at a neighboring school. We play them on the road early my first year and we had our best defensive outing of the season(we were very much in the building phase of program development), held them to 6 points through 3 quarters. The difference ended up being a pick six that made it 13-12. The stakes were pretty low in the big scheme of things but that one hurt mostly due to my admiration of the opponent and what that win could have meant for our season at the time.
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Post by coachjo14 on Jul 3, 2016 12:15:13 GMT -6
coachpslTough losses don't always have championship implications. As a player we had momentum going in the right direction, big lead on a rival had a couple injuries and lost on the last play of the game. The injuries kept piling up and we never got back on track.
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Post by CoachCP on Jul 4, 2016 21:15:34 GMT -6
By far the worst. I coached against my cousin who kind of looked up to me as a kid when I played high school football. There is about a 7 or 8 year age gap. He played for a rival in conference high school which was the powerhouse in the conference at the time. We were the up and comer (we were just about .500 in my day). Fast forward to that season, we took second in conference a couple of times to them and had always played them hard but always managed to lose close games in crazy ways to them. I disliked the team personally from my playing days, and our coaching staff was hungry for a win after so many close, crazy losses. He naturally loved playing us b/c of the family connection, and a huge chunk of our family attended. This game in question, they were the defending state (and conference) champs and they had been to a bunch of state championships in the past decade. To add to the spice, he played LB, I was an OL coach, so we were going head to head. It was funny, as his team knew about it (and his coaches -- they introduced themselves) and our team knew about it (as did our staff). Come Friday night. Its a close game. He plays a hack of a game but we make some plays on their D and our own holds up. We march down the field with less than two minutes on the clock, tied game. We go for the game winning field goal with time expiring. Kick goes up, and we miss it, but we get a second chance because they jump offsides. We're definitely in range now -- it seems in the bag or we're going to OT. We take the yards and kick it again. Then this happens: I've only had a problem sleeping a few times after a game. This was one of them. I didn't sleep for hours. The other occurred the next year after when we lost in the state title game. I still think this one hurt more because we were so close. We did beat that team the next year, after he graduated. That was one of the best feelings I've ever had a coach, because at least to me (and a few of the other coaches I spoke to) it felt like we got the monkey off our back. That being said, my cousin was a true sport after this game. The family wanted pictures, which I resented but did without complaint. We walked down towards the locker room together and he was nothing except gracious in victory.
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Post by fantom on Jul 5, 2016 10:17:50 GMT -6
coachjo14 never ceases to amaze me how some threads can take a left turn, but you hit the nail on the head. Time was an absolute factor in how the situation was dealt with. In regard to the responses, I will chalk it up to the fact that no one, other than myself, was there, and the intensity of the moment may not be truly appreciated or fully understood in a short online post. We worked it out and the young man ended up making the All-State team. You're right. None of us were there. I wasn't. I wrote what I would have ideally done. I don't know for a fact that that's what I'd do.
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