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Post by silkyice on Jun 8, 2016 14:52:02 GMT -6
Why not invite one or more of the team captains from the "99 to 2010 teams to come ant talk with the kids? They would be closer in age to your guys, but still have earned some peer respect for living as a young adult. Introduce him to your guys with a quick presentation...highlight reels etc...then leave the room so the kids are one-to-one. See what happens. Just curious...why do you need 6 team captains? Too many chefs spoil the soup. As for school population...there are many schools with far fewer students than your school has...and they win. Maybe its not "leadership" or the kids that's the problem. Its a poor carpenter who blames his tools. Honestly, knowing their situation, it's kinda like San Jose St trying to make it in the SEC. They have some nice tools, I've seen them in person, but the other guys have a bunch. Then it is like San Jose St upcoming QB calling out the rest of the team in a meeting he personally called in June and telling them they don't work hard enough to beat Bama, LSU, and Georgia. I can see why this thing didn't go well.
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 8, 2016 15:42:15 GMT -6
Silk - It goes back to the beginning. My son knows what it was like...our other teams beating teams in the "SEC" and winning the "SEC". What he didn't realize...is that the other people didn't read the history book or watch the "history" channel. It's not like it was. And he wants that.
I feel for him. I think we'll have a "nice" year this year. His class is loaded with old school kids. I think, in 2 years, his senior year...will have an old school flavor to it. It wouldn't surprise me if we start 18+ juniors this year.
I think we all want a turnaround to come quicker. In the end...I want him to have a good experience with his buddies. I think he will.
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Post by mariner42 on Jun 8, 2016 16:36:53 GMT -6
Honestly, knowing their situation, it's kinda like San Jose St trying to make it in the SEC. They have some nice tools, I've seen them in person, but the other guys have a bunch. Then it is like San Jose St upcoming QB calling out the rest of the team in a meeting he personally called in June and telling them they don't work hard enough to beat Bama, LSU, and Georgia. I can see why this thing didn't go well. Agreed, I think the intention is great, but the saying goes "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." tothehouse, sometimes graduation can't come quick enough. Even after you just had a graduation. The year before Blank got here, we just wanted to get through that year and get rid of that toxic senior class. Teachers at our place still shudder when they think of them. If this were Madden, we'd simulate the season and just move on.
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 8, 2016 19:45:15 GMT -6
Old mentality - "we don't want to be the class to lose" over a 15 year period in the late 80s to 90s our JV team NEVER LOST a league game. Kids did NOT want to be "that" team. The one that loses.
New mentality - "we used to win?"
Old - class upon class of kids...that had good to great players.
New - Every other...sometimes skipping a class...has a few good players, but nothing great.
In 2005 all 11 plus a 12 man on defense played college football. One went to Notre Dame. One went to Hawaii. One went to Fresno State. One went to Utah State. One of them was drafted by the NFL.
Last 3 seasons combined. 1 JC player? Something like that.
I don't know what it is, but it's hard to coach that.
This is the year that we looked to...to be the change. But the seniors to be...who have won a total of 3 games in their HS career need to show up.
Appreciate all the feedback gents. Let's GATA.
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Post by wiscoach on Jun 8, 2016 19:53:22 GMT -6
My junior year we had an awful scrimmage. Embarrassing. Lack of effort, execution, everything. On the bus ride back half the team was laughing it up and they didn't give two shits. Me and my best friend went to the coach Monday and discussed a punishment or something to do something. I can't even remember what we were trying to accomplish. But we settled on running 80 40 yard dashes because the local powerhouse was famous for running 40 40s and we were gonna do double.
So during this punishment a good chunk of the team walks off. Every senior except one. We go on to go 1 and 8 get crushed almost every week.
The next year we win our first conference championship in 36 years with 9 2 way players. Story book {censored}. Me and my best friend are strong guard and strong tackle in the DW. The game to get to conference championship we win on a 2 point conversion. Fullback dive. He went in untouched =)
The moral of my story is at the time our leadership stuff looked like it failed. But in reality it divided the team into the ones that didn't care and the ones that didn't want to be like those guys. I don't think our senior year would have been the same without that experience
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 8, 2016 20:05:24 GMT -6
I'm not the HC. I've told this story on here before...so I'll keep this brief. In 1998 I was the manager of a varsity baseball. The year before this team muddled in mediocrity with a different coach. The team fought each other in the dugout (throwing blows...not just yelling). Dysfunction at its best. Long story why I became the coach, but I did. I SCORCHED THE EARTH. Big time rules (which I normally wouldn't have done, but had to). Some kids rose up to them. But 8 didn't. We started the season 4-3. Then I kicked the best player in the entire area off the team. What happened? We won the next 18 games straight...with 11 players on the team. Our situation is different here, but messages can be sent different ways. That year I sent the "I'm {censored} in charge here...and you either do it this way or put up your thumb". BTW - I like our seniors. Most, if not all, are good kids. That might be part of the problem.
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Post by silkyice on Jun 8, 2016 20:17:16 GMT -6
Old mentality - "we don't want to be the class to lose" over a 15 year period in the late 80s to 90s our JV team NEVER LOST a league game. Kids did NOT want to be "that" team. The one that loses. New mentality - "we used to win?" Old - class upon class of kids...that had good to great players. New - Every other...sometimes skipping a class...has a few good players, but nothing great. In 2005 all 11 plus a 12 man on defense played college football. One went to Notre Dame. One went to Hawaii. One went to Fresno State. One went to Utah State. One of them was drafted by the NFL. Last 3 seasons combined. 1 JC player? Something like that. I don't know what it is, but it's hard to coach that. This is the year that we looked to...to be the change. But the seniors to be...who have won a total of 3 games in their HS career need to show up. Appreciate all the feedback gents. Let's GATA. So is their attitude or lack of talent the real problem? Everyone knows who Hoover is. Just imagine your state's Hoover. You know talent, dedication, tradition, coaching, family, never quit, no one out works them, etc. Well in this hypothetical scenerio, they get moved from 7A Alabama to the SEC West. How do you think their never quit attitude, work ethic, family, and dedication is two years later? One more example, take your team and move them from your super tough conference to some 1A level conference where you can compete for championships immediately. How is your team and family attitude now in two years? What about their work ethic in two years? This is not to minimize the importance of hard work, attitude, etc. Just giving some perspective.
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Post by coachwoodall on Jun 8, 2016 20:46:05 GMT -6
Et. AL. All I can say is WOW. How can you guys fault a kid for trying to make a positive change by acting like a leader? Isn't that what we all want our kids to be like? You have a kid that is trying to make a positive change and then you knit pic the fact that he didn't do the politically correct approach by saying that everything will be okay if we just all be friends. Leadership is a lonely position. You don't make friends by acting like a leader.
You question the conference he attended for being too 'pollyanna'. You question that he called out a friend... as opposed to some body he had little connection with. You question the fact that he is 'coach's son'. And on and on.
Have you ever been a leader yourself? Or have you only been the guy who just makes suggestions? Have you ever had to sit alone with the decisions that you made or have you just been the guy that sits with the group and beeches about what has been decided? Have you ever made a positive shift in the culture of a place or are you just message board warriors?
Tothehouse, bring your kid to our place and we'll put him in the front and demand that everyone be like him.
Good for him and don't discourage him one bit. Tell him to not back down and to challenge the team each and every day.
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Post by silkyice on Jun 8, 2016 21:08:30 GMT -6
Et. AL. All I can say is WOW. How can you guys fault a kid for trying to make a positive change by acting like a leader? Isn't that what we all want our kids to be like? You have a kid that is trying to make a positive change and then you knit pic the fact that he didn't do the politically correct approach by saying that everything will be okay if we just all be friends. Leadership is a lonely position. You don't make friends by acting like a leader. You question the conference he attended for being too 'pollyanna'. You question that he called out a friend... as opposed to some body he had little connection with. You question the fact that he is 'coach's son'. And on and on. Have you ever been a leader yourself? Or have you only been the guy who just makes suggestions? Have you ever had to sit alone with the decisions that you made or have you just been the guy that sits with the group and beeches about what has been decided? Have you ever made a positive shift in the culture of a place or are you just message board warriors? Tothehouse, bring your kid to our place and we'll put him in the front and demand that everyone be like him. Good for him and don't discourage him one bit. Tell him to not back down and to challenge the team each and every day. Wow is right. Don't fault him for trying to make a positive change but 100% fault his approach. And I don't think he was acting like a leader. Quite frankly it sounds like he was pretending to be a leader. Politically correct? Whatever. I could care less if someone gets called out, by the right person at the right time. I would beat my two boys ass if they ever pulled a stunt like that. Now if one of them would jump in someone's face when it was needed and it had to come to some blows and harsh words or whatever because emotions were high and they were sick of it and weren't going to take their crap anymore, go for it. But this was a called meeting by one individual in June after he attends some freaking conference. And he starts in on kids? Horrible. Have I ever been leader or made a positive change? Took over losing program who was 3-8 and beat rivals for first time in 10 years. Won first city championship ever in school history that year. Left after 10 years with 5 city championship and runs in the playoffs. That was 10 years ago. Same school now literally has what is referred to as the "dream team" coaching staff. No city champioships and haven't beaten rival who isn't even that good anymore. Do the math, I am the only coach who has beaten the rivals in the last 30 years and beat them 5 out 10 years. When they were dang good. Left as all time winningest coach in that school's history. My current job. Took over losing program. Horrible program. Coming off 3-8. Went 9-2 first year beating eventuall state champs who happen to be our rivals who we hadn't beaten in ironically 10 years! Won state championship second year. Currently all time winningest coach at this school also. I am 46. Hell, just might go do it at another school if I feel like it. Edit: you are right I have been politically correct. I think this was totally a {censored} move and tothehouse should have stoppped it before it ever happened instead of probably encouraging it. Is that enough leadership for you! Sorry for everyone to hear my dang rant.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 8, 2016 21:08:49 GMT -6
Et. AL. All I can say is WOW. How can you guys fault a kid for trying to make a positive change by acting like a leader? Isn't that what we all want our kids to be like? You have a kid that is trying to make a positive change and then you knit pic the fact that he didn't do the politically correct approach by saying that everything will be okay if we just all be friends. Leadership is a lonely position. You don't make friends by acting like a leader. You question the conference he attended for being too 'pollyanna'. You question that he called out a friend... as opposed to some body he had little connection with. You question the fact that he is 'coach's son'. And on and on. Have you ever been a leader yourself? Or have you only been the guy who just makes suggestions? Have you ever had to sit alone with the decisions that you made or have you just been the guy that sits with the group and beeches about what has been decided? Have you ever made a positive shift in the culture of a place or are you just message board warriors? Tothehouse, bring your kid to our place and we'll put him in the front and demand that everyone be like him. Good for him and don't discourage him one bit. Tell him to not back down and to challenge the team each and every day. Easy to fault him...it apparently went over like a lead balloon. Being vocal doesn't mean being a leader. It means being vocal. I don't think the coaches here are criticizing the kids intent, but rather the approach. Regardless of its good intentions, based on what tothehouse said, it didn't seem to affect any change. Think of the weight room. There have been numerous threads here about how a standard crossfit program (randomized exercise selection based around metabolic conditioning ) is not an effective way to develop an athlete. Make no mistake, if you did that, you would have workers. Your kids would sweat, puke, they would lie down in exhaustion post workout...but you wouldn't get the desired effect (bigger, stronger, faster, more explosive players). You typed a key phrase "ACTING LIKE A LEADER". There is a difference. I just think the youngster read the room poorly.
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 8, 2016 21:11:01 GMT -6
Woodall. That's where I am. I said, "Are you crazy? You're doing everything right. Maybe your words got mixed up a bit while delivering, but DON'T STOP". I've talk to other people about this as well. Like I've said, "leaders take shots".
My son asked me a few years ago..."why am I playing QB?" I said, "because you're THAT GUY. You are an athlete. You lead. You don't go to {censored} under pressure. You're a proven winner. You're THAT KID. Who else is RUNNING with their hand raised to do what you're doing? How many other people are 'the quarterback' at this school? {censored} be proud of that. Gotta have a little bit of pissy ness and swagger."
Silk - there are missing pieces as far as the full explanation of what has happened over the last 6 years or so. I think anyone in my/our situation would see what has transpired.
But again Silk...it's not just football. Every sport at the school is getting it handed to them. The collective "WTF" is happening.
Some of my posts here have sounded like complaining. I have gone back and forth on that. I know we have 2 years left dealing with the cards that are dealt. And we're going to play those cards.
I definitely have not sat on my hands when it comes to preparing for the gauntlet myself. Definitely have to look at the coaching staff as a whole as well when things get sideways. Who is willing to do more? Not sure who. I know I am. I know for a fact...and that is not bragging, etc. I've been here 17 years and have kicked some ass over that time.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 8, 2016 21:20:53 GMT -6
tothehouse Just to make it clear, it does sound like a crappy situation, and I don't fault anyone for not liking it. Seems like the school is developing a loser mindset. That is tough, but I think it needs to be stemmed from the top down. I played in a loser program in football--it was pretty solid the years before I got there, ran into some enrollment number issues (small catholic school outside of New Orleans) and my freshman year just got worn down at the end of games. It was a decent team but went 3-7 with lots of the losses coming at the end. The HC left and then we had NO offseason workout (probably due to coaches having to coach 3 sports and players playing 2-3 sports) and that combined with a natural dip in athletes resulted in a 2-8 sophomore year in which I was a starter at OLB at like 5-11 150lbs and squatting maybe 200lbs. Maybe. Probably less. We were weak and sorry but worse, we didn't know any better. I had NO CONCEPT of what it would take, but whats worse, the infrastructure and environment for us to do what it would take was not in place. At that point we started the loser mentality and as I have mentioned I really had NO clue why I sucked. (looking back, our coaching was pretty poor.) It is hard to fight, but it has to come from the top. Nobody really explained to us what it would take. We honestly just kind of hoped for the best each week. Its funny, but if the school would have just had a top down attitude to strength training we probably would have been ok...THAT would have been much more effective than someone from within calling team meetings and giving rah rah speeches. You guys might have those things in place school wide, but as evidenced by this event, addressing large groups with a loser mentality often doesn't give you the results you want. Combine that with the other factors mentioned (the attempt is by a Jr. who hasn't proven he is by far the ALPHA and he happens to be a coach's kid) and it just doesn't seem to be the best method.
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 8, 2016 21:26:04 GMT -6
The hardest part is the rise and fall. You think you're pretty good at what you do. You've tried your "tried and true" stuff. And it didn't work.
Without going into too much detail...our last Administration was a MAJOR part of the problem. The realignment process is every 4 years. We had a chance to get out of the league, but our Admin (AD and Principal) were literally laughed off the podium when it was time to speak about the impending declining enrollment and other issues. I COULD SEE IT COMING A MILE AWAY. Did Admin listen to us? Nope. Incompetent people that are now not in their positions anymore. I freakin wonder why.
Again...lots more to this. What do I do? Take care of what I can control.
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Post by 60zgo on Jun 13, 2016 23:07:53 GMT -6
Wow. This thread is almost zany...
People for the most part don't know how to lead in a positive manner. Kids can't lead unless they are taught how by the coaching staff. Our Captains have always been the players that exemplified the habits and traits we want the team to have. Every Wednesday we talk about a certain value or moral attribute with the team in a classroom setting. Before school we meet with our team leaders about the topic of the day and how to teach it and model it for their teammates. We have scored competitions during summer workouts these guys lead. We have had them head up service projects, volunteer work, fundraisers, etc. Identify the traits you want. Identify the players who have those traits already. Teach them how to lead and give them tasks and opportunities to lead. The rest will shake itself out.
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Post by gators1422 on Jun 14, 2016 5:29:21 GMT -6
Coach I've read over the thread, no offense but it seems that the culture that is installed or allowed by the staff is the problem. It seems the kids don't really care either way. I've heard coaches tell kids to buy in and believe in the process. You know how to get kids to buy in? You make them put in so much work and bust their a$$ so that football means more than anything,They are totally invested. As for naming captains I never thought that was a whole lot of good. You should know who the Alpha dog is and that is who the kids will follow, and there is usually only one. Kids in a losing culture don't care about you telling them what De la Salle is doing or whatever. They are so far removed from that it is hard to understand. You guys should emphasize the past successes at your school. We did that and had some guys speak to the team. Just my opinion.
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