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Post by 19delta on May 30, 2016 17:46:52 GMT -6
Why does it have to be their number one sport? I want the wrestler who loves wrestling but can help us in football. Football will never be his number one love, it he likes it enough to play and wants to do well. It doesn't have to be EVERYONE's #1 sport. But it can't be EVERYONE's #2 sport. I want that wrestler too, believe me. But like I said, and I think most would agree, its the hardest off-season of all the other sports. Hoops = AAU or go play pickup. LAX = travel ball. Baseball = travel ball. Wrestling = open mats. All of those things are much easier for a 15, 16, 17 year old to get excited about doing when you compare it to lifting, speed training, and 7 on 7. That is, unless football is their #1 sport. I do appreciate all the input. I agree with the vast majority of the responses. And I have tried many of the suggestions in the past. And I agree that winning is a cure-all. But its definitely a chicken-egg situation there. Gonna keep reaching in the tool belt to try new stuff. Wrestling is the toughest sport, in-season or out of season. Period. End of story. Those guys are all a little...different. If you have a good wrestling program in your school, you aren't going to win many football games unless you can get at least a couple of those really good wrestlers to play for you. And again...I ask...why does it matter if football isn't the "top dog"? As long as you are getting the majority of the top athletes out for football and you are doing good things with them, why does it matter?
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Post by groundchuck on May 30, 2016 20:22:15 GMT -6
I don't think he means for individual players. That'll never happen with everybody and shouldn't. He means overall within the school. Correct. I'm more talking about the culture in general. I hear you. Culture is slooooooooooow to change.
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Post by flexbonecoach on May 30, 2016 21:53:34 GMT -6
It doesn't have to be EVERYONE's #1 sport. But it can't be EVERYONE's #2 sport. I want that wrestler too, believe me. But like I said, and I think most would agree, its the hardest off-season of all the other sports. Hoops = AAU or go play pickup. LAX = travel ball. Baseball = travel ball. Wrestling = open mats. All of those things are much easier for a 15, 16, 17 year old to get excited about doing when you compare it to lifting, speed training, and 7 on 7. That is, unless football is their #1 sport. I do appreciate all the input. I agree with the vast majority of the responses. And I have tried many of the suggestions in the past. And I agree that winning is a cure-all. But its definitely a chicken-egg situation there. Gonna keep reaching in the tool belt to try new stuff. Wrestling is the toughest sport, in-season or out of season. Period. End of story. Those guys are all a little...different. If you have a good wrestling program in your school, you aren't going to win many football games unless you can get at least a couple of those really good wrestlers to play for you. And again...I ask...why does it matter if football isn't the "top dog"? As long as you are getting the majority of the top athletes out for football and you are doing good things with them, why does it matter? We aren't getting the majority of top athletes out for football. Thats my point. 4 out of the starting 5 basketball players would start in my defensive backfield, but they won't play.
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Post by 19delta on May 31, 2016 2:12:48 GMT -6
Wrestling is the toughest sport, in-season or out of season. Period. End of story. Those guys are all a little...different. If you have a good wrestling program in your school, you aren't going to win many football games unless you can get at least a couple of those really good wrestlers to play for you. And again...I ask...why does it matter if football isn't the "top dog"? As long as you are getting the majority of the top athletes out for football and you are doing good things with them, why does it matter? We aren't getting the majority of top athletes out for football. Thats my point. 4 out of the starting 5 basketball players would start in my defensive backfield, but they won't play. Yeah. That's tough. it would be one thing if those kids were at least playing football. Just wondering, have you tried to personally recruit those kids? What do they say when you try and talk football with them? What are those kids doing in the fall if they aren't playing football? Tough spot, coach. Keep grinding!
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Post by coachirish on May 31, 2016 4:20:51 GMT -6
Alot of it has to do with the size of the school. If your school has several sports options I think you have a lesser chance of being #1 compared to the school that only offers the big 3 plus golf or tennis. That's been my experience.
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Post by flexbonecoach on May 31, 2016 6:26:10 GMT -6
We aren't getting the majority of top athletes out for football. Thats my point. 4 out of the starting 5 basketball players would start in my defensive backfield, but they won't play. Yeah. That's tough. it would be one thing if those kids were at least playing football. Just wondering, have you tried to personally recruit those kids? What do they say when you try and talk football with them? What are those kids doing in the fall if they aren't playing football? Tough spot, coach. Keep grinding! Thanks will do. Yeah, we've definitely tried. One of my assistants actually became the assistant basketball coach this year and he tried hard to get those kids to play. They never will though. The head bball coach will never admit it, but I'm SURE he's telling kids not to play football. Its one of the main reasons I want this culture change. If football is the place to be, we get better athletes. Better athletes = more wins. More wins = even more people wanting to be apart of what we do. If football is THE sport, it doesn't matter what other coaches tell their kids. And again, I never tell kids not to play other sports. I'm just looking to be reciprocated.
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Post by lochness on May 31, 2016 7:06:32 GMT -6
I feel the pain on this one.
I've had kids who play on other teams tell me that those coaches discourage players from playing football or other sports. They never say "don't do it," because they know that will mean their jobs...but they say stuff like "I want you to know that I'm going to put my time and energy into the guys who bust their butts for us year-round first." So, if you're a basketball-first kind of kid, and your coach says that, you're probably going to quit football.
Also, in our area of the country, we don't get a lot of "scholarship" looks for football players. So, kids are convinced that baseball, lacrosse and basketball are more viable options if they are playing for the prospect of scholarships. And, those are all sports you can find a way to play year-round if you want to. When you add to that the recent attack on football as being more dangerous to humans than diving head-first off the Empire State Building...it's definitely an uphill battle.
I'm lucky that football is big in the school I coach at. We get the most community support and most student support. So that helps a little. But, at the end of the day, we get the kids who LOVE football, and that's about it. We're not going to get 75 or 80 kids (school size 800). We average about 50-55 total. It's good from the perspective that we have kids who are "into it," but we don't get that great 6'3 basketball kid as a receiver / strong safety. That (hypothetical) kid has decided that he needs to focus on basketball and not risk decapitation or disembowelment playing a silly game like football.
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Post by olcoach53 on May 31, 2016 7:12:06 GMT -6
This is a never ending battle that happens at every school in America. Coaches in every sport want to "specialize" their kids and at the end of the day the only people that get hurt are the KIDS. Basketball coach doesn't want his 5'10 185 pound point guard to play football. Football coach doesn't want his 6'1 265 pound center to wrestle. Baseball doesn't want his 6'4 235 pound first baseman to do ANYTHING else...It sucks but it is the world we live in.
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Post by lochness on May 31, 2016 7:13:06 GMT -6
The only other spin I'll put on this, though (and this is going to piss people off I'm sure) is this:
We want those "football 2nd or 3rd" kids who are great athletes to come play for us rather than doing open mats, AAU, or elite travel this or that. Got it. Agree. But, on this very same forum, I constantly see coaches kicking and screaming about how they want full participation in their weights programs, and that "if they don't come, they won't get playing time" and that kind of thing.
So, in a way, we are just as guilty as the other coaches who pressure their kids to specialize. Regardless of whether or not you say it, kids who are "football 1st" types will drop other sports, especially as they get older, so they don't miss weight room workouts because of the pressure you put on them. I think that's wrong and it's a double standard. I want our guys playing lacrosse and baseball, and then I want their asses in the weight room when they're NOT doing another sport. I unfortunately don't get that same courtesy reciprocated, by other programs, but that's our stance on things.
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Post by blb on May 31, 2016 7:30:42 GMT -6
I felt about this like I did when I was coaching CFB and recruiting.
Present your program with confidence and enthusiasm, show what "is in it" for the kids.
But do NOT talk any one into playing for you.
It's got to be their idea or their heart won't be in it enough to do what's necessary to be successful, and they'll feel like you owe them something without having done anything to earn it.
Find those kids who do want what you-Football have to offer. "Want to" can make up for a lot of deficiencies.
Don't worry about kids who aren't playing for you, in your school or others. There's nothing you can do about them, and it takes your attention away from ones you should be spending your time on - YOUR players.
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Post by lochness on May 31, 2016 16:29:13 GMT -6
I felt about this like I did when I was coaching CFB and recruiting. Present your program with confidence and enthusiasm, show what "is in it" for the kids. But do NOT talk any one into playing for you. It's got to be their idea or their heart won't be in it enough to do what's necessary to be successful, and they'll feel like you owe them something without having done anything to earn it. Find those kids who do want what you-Football have to offer. "Want to" can make up for a lot of deficiencies. Don't worry about kids who aren't playing for you, in your school or others. There's nothing you can do about them, and it takes your attention away from ones you should be spending your time on - YOUR players. Abso-FREAKIN-lutely, dawg.
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Post by blb on Jun 1, 2016 16:06:13 GMT -6
Yeah. That's tough. it would be one thing if those kids were at least playing football. Just wondering, have you tried to personally recruit those kids? What do they say when you try and talk football with them? What are those kids doing in the fall if they aren't playing football? Tough spot, coach. Keep grinding! Thanks will do. Yeah, we've definitely tried. One of my assistants actually became the assistant basketball coach this year and he tried hard to get those kids to play. They never will though. The head bball coach will never admit it, but I'm SURE he's telling kids not to play football. Its one of the main reasons I want this culture change. If football is the place to be, we get better athletes. Better athletes = more wins. More wins = even more people wanting to be apart of what we do. If football is THE sport, it doesn't matter what other coaches tell their kids. And again, I never tell kids not to play other sports. I'm just looking to be reciprocated.
Coach, I understand where you're coming from.
BUT - I've yet to see a "Basketball first" kid who is going to come out for Football to play DB.
If they come out - and I'm not talking about Football players who play Basketball - all they're really interested in is how many passes can I catch, TDs do I score, get my name in the paper and awards I win.
They'll probably never make a block or a tackle for you.
When the middle of Football season rolls around and they're not a "star," they'll be gone as soon as Basketball "Open Gym" start.
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Post by dytmook on Jun 1, 2016 17:31:18 GMT -6
We have a basketball coach is who anti football which wasn't such a big problem when we were a bigger school and two platooning in football, but it has hurt us recently more. Still somehow we have kept getting a few more basketball guys out. Some cut it, others don't but they've generally been great kids. The kid who broke the ice in terms of basketball guys did really well so it has helped. Basketball HC actually told our basketball team that an opposing football player would be better at basketball player if he didn't play football. It very well may be true, but I doubt he gets a full ride to Indiana St or any other D1 as a basketball player.
We give kids who are known to be participating in other sports through the school perfect attendance for those weight lifting sessions they miss. We want them having fun. Would I love my smaller LBs and RBs to not to be on the bowling team or my linemen throwing for track, sure, but they deserve to have fun. A good portion of our kids will show up when they can anyways.
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Post by canesfan on Jun 1, 2016 18:49:29 GMT -6
Basketball coaches, especially in Kentucky, suck. They don't realize that football can actually help their kids. We had a basketball coach whine that because we were deeper in the playoffs than normal they wouldn't have their full roster for the preseason scrimmages. He actually told one of our coaches that. Nevermind that we had a school best year in football, girls volleyball, soccer, track and baseball (virtually every sport besides basketball). Makes me sick.
Long term treat the kids right and they'll come. Won't get all but you'll get enough.
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