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Post by flexbonecoach on May 18, 2016 6:18:37 GMT -6
I coach at a high school that has been mediocre at best for the last 15 years. I have recently taken the program over. One of our biggest problems is that we have very few "football first" kids. I feel kids are always missing lifting, meetings, speed training, for either AAU basketball, travel baseball or travel lacrosse. Some kids are even quitting football or stopping after middle school to "concentrate on other sports."
I should point out that we have a school population of about 1200 kids, so its not like we are 3-deep-talented at each position. I would imagine that for you coaches in established programs with huge populations, you rarely run into this problem. But for you coaches in a similar situation, how do you combat this? Have any of you had success in making football THE sport? What do you focus on? All input is appreciated. Thanks!
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coachnewman
Freshmen Member
On this team, we're all united in a common goal: to keep my job." -Lou Holtz
Posts: 85
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Post by coachnewman on May 18, 2016 6:30:19 GMT -6
The most important thing to do is get the Baseball, Basketball, and Lacrosse Head Coach on your side with this. They will need to help you in speaking with the kids, I have heard and seen some coaches that also advocate this exact thing you are asking about in keeping "their" players from playing other sports.
I have found to help with this is to bring in college recruiters and have them speak to them individually to show that they could have a future in playing football. As a friend of mine tells kids "you are playing with the wrong ball". Football also provides more assistance/scholarship money than those other sports as well. It is less money out of their pockets.
The next thing I try is by creating an excitement about the program with attractive gear that ONLY football players get.
If you do find the formula to make this happen I am sure there are a lot of people including myself that will pay to know it LOL.
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Post by rosey65 on May 18, 2016 7:30:46 GMT -6
Everything that coachnewman said is correct. I didnt want to read into your post, but it sounded like you are asking how to convince kids to forego "their" sport for yours. That wont happen. Missing out on weight training and speed work has a big impact, but understand that some kids want to play other sports. I suggest you find a way to share athletes with other sports, and not ask anyone to choose. Convince kids to come out for your sport, not give up another sport.
We have several coaches telling their kids to not play football. Our best method of recruiting has been telling kids we WANT them to keep playing their other sports. We lose our TE and WR twice/week at the end of practice when they go to AAU. Track kids dont get much lifting done during track season. The lacrosse kids leave practice early, and dont lift much on days they have a game. Often, the teams and programs who force kids to choose often end up being the ones to lose kids, as the mindset behind forcing a kid to choose permeates other poor choices in the ways they run their program. We've had more kids quit their other sport than we've had kids quit football. Work with your kids, work with parents, work with coaches, and show everyone at the school why they should play football.
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Post by blb on May 18, 2016 7:37:41 GMT -6
I coached at a school of 1700-plus kids and had similar situation. Has nothing to do with enrollment.
Ours was a suburban school and the most popular sports were Soccer, Hockey, Baseball. They instituted Lacrosse my last year and it has caught on well too. Even Cross Country got a lot of participation.
Nevertheless that last year in spite of district instituting Pay for Play we had by far the biggest turnout for Football in school's history.
I don't know if you CAN make it "THE" sport, or if it's even necessary to be successful. A lot of that attitude will be a community-culture thing and kids will come into your school ingrained with it.
One thing we did was to get as much Football apparel into school as possible - T-shirts for weight lifting accomplishments, perfect Summer attendance, making playoffs, winning league, hoodies and shorts for Lift-a-Thon money, etc.
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Post by flexbonecoach on May 18, 2016 7:45:47 GMT -6
Everything that coachnewman said is correct. I didnt want to read into your post, but it sounded like you are asking how to convince kids to forego "their" sport for yours. That wont happen. Missing out on weight training and speed work has a big impact, but understand that some kids want to play other sports. I suggest you find a way to share athletes with other sports, and not ask anyone to choose. Convince kids to come out for your sport, not give up another sport. We have several coaches telling their kids to not play football. Our best method of recruiting has been telling kids we WANT them to keep playing their other sports. We lose our TE and WR twice/week at the end of practice when they go to AAU. Track kids dont get much lifting done during track season. The lacrosse kids leave practice early, and dont lift much on days they have a game. Often, the teams and programs who force kids to choose often end up being the ones to lose kids, as the mindset behind forcing a kid to choose permeates other poor choices in the ways they run their program. We've had more kids quit their other sport than we've had kids quit football. Work with your kids, work with parents, work with coaches, and show everyone at the school why they should play football. Sorry, didn't mean to come off that way. I ENCOURAGE kids to play other sports. I believe that they should be doing other things besides just playing football and then lifting to get ready for football. I know that other coaches in my district are telling kids to only play their sport and I'm trying to break the barrier. But in the end, the easy/fun thing to do is to go to open gym for basketball and play a game rather than put a bar on your back and squat to the ground. I'm more talking about now that Spring sports are over, to me its football season. But we are still losing the duel to club sports (AAU, travel, etc.) I'd never ask a kid to miss an in-season varsity practice for something that I'm doing in the off-season. But its May and the next varsity contest that is scheduled is football and I want our kids to start thinking that way too. |
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Post by blb on May 18, 2016 7:58:24 GMT -6
You could try to accommodate them by having workout sessions in both AM and PM say M-W-F, then just AM or PM on Tu-Th depending on when other teams are playing. Tell them they need to make three sessions a week.
One motivational tactic we used was we told them that where they were on depth chart first day of practice would be in part based on how they did on Physical Fitness Test and at our Summer Camp. Generally would expect kids who attended Summer Workouts consistently to score better on PFT than those who didn't.
Anyone who had 100% Summer attendance received a special T-shirt and was a Captain (led warm-ups for ex.) first week of practice.
We issued equipment including choice of jersey numbers based on Summer attendance too.
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coachnewman
Freshmen Member
On this team, we're all united in a common goal: to keep my job." -Lou Holtz
Posts: 85
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Post by coachnewman on May 18, 2016 8:25:36 GMT -6
Yes rewards is a great incentive. I do 100% and the program will purchase your cleats for you, granted its coach choice on the cleat but allow them to select brand. The key is making it something they WANT to do and be a part of. We do T, W, Th weights, conditioning, and 7 on 7 that way the kid still has the weekends to enjoy his summer and make those tournaments they play on the weekend.
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Post by abkillen on May 18, 2016 8:28:37 GMT -6
We have many football players that play AAU basketball and Club Lacrosse. It is understood that a club sport is never going to come before a school sport. If they have a lacrosse game at 5:30, we will work with them and let them leave lifting a little early during the offseason, but they are never missing any football related activity in season to play a club sport. As far as other on campus sports, all of our coaches work pretty well together and the in season sport always is the top priority.
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Post by realdawg on May 18, 2016 8:47:16 GMT -6
Another thing is you have to make it fun. Now I know there are some things we have to do that just arent enjoyable. But you have to have alot of energy and be positive and up tempo. I agree that incentives are good. Giving kids things, like tee shirts and shorts are good. As much as I hate to admit it, music in the wt. room and at practice are good if you have the ability to do it.
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Post by **** on May 18, 2016 9:40:15 GMT -6
Win.
Winning cures everything.
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Post by wingtol on May 18, 2016 9:45:58 GMT -6
Win. Winning cures everything. Took the words out of my mouth. But it's not just about winning on the field, you have to win the players first. We took over a school that has been down for while and have 2 pretty good years back to back now. We now have a lot of our players getting their friends to come out who haven't played or stopped under the old coaches. When you win your players they become great ambassadors for your program themselves. People notice that. |
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Post by 19delta on May 18, 2016 18:20:45 GMT -6
Everything that coachnewman said is correct. I didnt want to read into your post, but it sounded like you are asking how to convince kids to forego "their" sport for yours. That wont happen. Missing out on weight training and speed work has a big impact, but understand that some kids want to play other sports. I suggest you find a way to share athletes with other sports, and not ask anyone to choose. Convince kids to come out for your sport, not give up another sport. We have several coaches telling their kids to not play football. Our best method of recruiting has been telling kids we WANT them to keep playing their other sports. We lose our TE and WR twice/week at the end of practice when they go to AAU. Track kids dont get much lifting done during track season. The lacrosse kids leave practice early, and dont lift much on days they have a game. Often, the teams and programs who force kids to choose often end up being the ones to lose kids, as the mindset behind forcing a kid to choose permeates other poor choices in the ways they run their program. We've had more kids quit their other sport than we've had kids quit football. Work with your kids, work with parents, work with coaches, and show everyone at the school why they should play football. Sorry, didn't mean to come off that way. I ENCOURAGE kids to play other sports. I believe that they should be doing other things besides just playing football and then lifting to get ready for football. I know that other coaches in my district are telling kids to only play their sport and I'm trying to break the barrier. But in the end, the easy/fun thing to do is to go to open gym for basketball and play a game rather than put a bar on your back and squat to the ground. I'm more talking about now that Spring sports are over, to me its football season. But we are still losing the duel to club sports (AAU, travel, etc.) I'd never ask a kid to miss an in-season varsity practice for something that I'm doing in the off-season. But its May and the next varsity contest that is scheduled is football and I want our kids to start thinking that way too. It's tough to compete with club sports. Travel baseball is getting huge. And it is expensive. Parents are paying $650 and up to have their kids play on travel teams. Given that, it is hard to convince parents to skip baseball practice for weightlifting or to attend a weekend 7 on 7 instead of a travel tournament. The other issue is that club teams are often more competitive than school teams. On a travel team, kids really need to work hard to win a position or to just make the team. Those same kids are often among the elite athletes in the school and can just show up to practice for the school-sponsored sports and still be among the best you have. It's frustrating, no doubt. You have to have some football-only kids, right? Probably some linemen types? I would suggest that you build your offseason program around those kids. Make the weight room fun and exciting and challenging for those kids. Get them brutally strong. Put up leader boards and get t-shirts printed up for different "clubs" that kids can lift themselves into. And then when the season rolls around, look at it as an early Christmas gift when you get those athletic baseball, basketball and lacrosse kids back. It does sound like the culture in your district isn't conducive to encouraging across-the-board success for the entire athletic department. If the other head coaches in the district are territorial and aren't willing to share athletes it will be very difficult for you to change that culture, especially if those other head coaches don't see any benefit in changing their approach. |
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Post by groundchuck on May 19, 2016 12:21:48 GMT -6
In the fall football has to be their number one sport. We have had players leave as soon as practice was over to wrestling or fall baseball. I fear injury and falling behind on their homework but it is their choice (and their parents of course). I will never my son do that though. He's in middle school and already kids miss baseball practice for their AAU games which is BS.
We do our best to make football a sport they want to be involved in. Our best teams have had a QB who was a "baseball" first or a "basketball first". But during football season he was all football.
Now the question of other coaches, you can fix that with a strong administration, that hires coaches who understand that a school with the best athletes playing football, basketball/wrestling, then baseball/track is going to have a better athletic program. Winning across the board is good for the school. There are schools around us who fire coaches who do not bring their teams to the weight room in-season.
Schools sit and spend days on developing a K-12 math curriculum, and they should. But what if we (or you) sat down and developed a 6-12 athletics philosophy. Athletic development, an understanding that we must sincerely encourage multi-sport participation and discourage our athletes from playing in year-round or out of season leagues.
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Post by fcboiler87 on May 19, 2016 13:02:48 GMT -6
groundchuck hit the nail on the head. It starts with a great administration. It has to be one that understands athletics are the backbone of your school culture. Success there often leads to success in the rest of your school, namely academics. If they don't get that and won't do whatever it takes to get coaches in the building and get your coaches on the same page, it will be an uphill battle. I've not seen too many admin like that though as they are concerned about test scores, academics, etc. I hope to be one of those strong admin one day who makes a school a great place to coach. There just aren't really any around here at any school.
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Post by veerman on May 26, 2016 21:59:44 GMT -6
I agree with winning. There can only be one king, and its usually the one that has the most success.
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Post by coach2013 on May 27, 2016 6:18:59 GMT -6
Put a ton of time and energy into it- attitude reflects leadership.
Make sure your coaches are working as hard.
Make sure your captains are working as hard.
Make sure your next captains are working as hard.
Win.
Keep kids through their senior year. Don't get sick of or down on a freshman, sophomore or Junior who will SOME DAY be a senior that will help you win football games.
Good programs are owned by the senior class. It takes time but eventually your JV will be better than some varsity teams. Then you have something.
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Post by indian1 on May 27, 2016 7:31:27 GMT -6
MAKE. IT. FUN.
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Post by s73 on May 27, 2016 8:08:46 GMT -6
Our numbers are starting to improve slightly for the first time in a while. One thing we have started doing is to periodically host "game nights" for the fb kids where we turn the lights on and let them play on the field. get nice turnouts for that & I think it reminds kids how cool it is to be under the lights. we encourage them to invite anyone who might be thinking about playing fb |
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Post by 60zgo on May 27, 2016 19:24:01 GMT -6
Win. Winning cures everything. This. The only fun thing about football is winning. For the most part football drills/practice are the exact opposite of fun. If it's been "mediocre at best", then kids will have naturally been attracted to other things at the school. You need to give the kids a reason to show up. Could be incentives for workouts, team activities other than football, "swag", food, come to summer workouts in an ice cream truck, whatever. But at the end of the day you have to win. Kids want to be around winning programs. I know it's a chicken or egg type deal, but I have been a part of a number of turnarounds and it's just the way it is. |
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Post by joris85 on May 30, 2016 8:05:54 GMT -6
Win. Winning cures everything. This. The only fun thing about football is winning. For the most part football drills/practice are the exact opposite of fun. If it's been "mediocre at best", then kids will have naturally been attracted to other things at the school. You need to give the kids a reason to show up. Could be incentives for workouts, team activities other than football, "swag", food, come to summer workouts in an ice cream truck, whatever. But at the end of the day you have to win. Kids want to be around winning programs. I know it's a chicken or egg type deal, but I have been a part of a number of turnarounds and it's just the way it is. I don't agree. Instead of winning, I think Competing is more accurate. Being on the winning end of a lopsided game is not nearly as fun as winning a nailbiter. That doesn't mean there is such a thing as being "too good", I'm just saying there is fun in competing. I think you create fun at practice by having competition in as many drills as possible. Practices will surely be fun that way. |
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Post by fantom on May 30, 2016 8:54:20 GMT -6
This. The only fun thing about football is winning. For the most part football drills/practice are the exact opposite of fun. If it's been "mediocre at best", then kids will have naturally been attracted to other things at the school. You need to give the kids a reason to show up. Could be incentives for workouts, team activities other than football, "swag", food, come to summer workouts in an ice cream truck, whatever. But at the end of the day you have to win. Kids want to be around winning programs. I know it's a chicken or egg type deal, but I have been a part of a number of turnarounds and it's just the way it is. I don't agree. Instead of winning, I think Competing is more accurate. Being on the winning end of a lopsided game is not nearly as fun as winning a nailbiter. But it beats all hell out of losing either a nail-biter or a blowout. |
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Post by CS on May 30, 2016 10:32:20 GMT -6
I don't agree. Instead of winning, I think Competing is more accurate. Being on the winning end of a lopsided game is not nearly as fun as winning a nailbiter. But it beats all hell out of losing either a nail-biter or a blowout. Lmao, BOOM!! |
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Post by groundchuck on May 30, 2016 11:01:23 GMT -6
Why does it have to be their number one sport? I want the wrestler who loves wrestling but can help us in football. Football will never be his number one love, it he likes it enough to play and wants to do well.
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Post by fantom on May 30, 2016 11:05:07 GMT -6
Why does it have to be their number one sport? I want the wrestler who loves wrestling but can help us in football. Football will never be his number one love, it he likes it enough to play and wants to do well. I don't think he means for individual players. That'll never happen with everybody and shouldn't. He means overall within the school. |
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Post by flexbonecoach on May 30, 2016 11:54:02 GMT -6
Why does it have to be their number one sport? I want the wrestler who loves wrestling but can help us in football. Football will never be his number one love, it he likes it enough to play and wants to do well. It doesn't have to be EVERYONE's #1 sport. But it can't be EVERYONE's #2 sport. I want that wrestler too, believe me. But like I said, and I think most would agree, its the hardest off-season of all the other sports. Hoops = AAU or go play pickup. LAX = travel ball. Baseball = travel ball. Wrestling = open mats. All of those things are much easier for a 15, 16, 17 year old to get excited about doing when you compare it to lifting, speed training, and 7 on 7. That is, unless football is their #1 sport. I do appreciate all the input. I agree with the vast majority of the responses. And I have tried many of the suggestions in the past. And I agree that winning is a cure-all. But its definitely a chicken-egg situation there. Gonna keep reaching in the tool belt to try new stuff. |
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Post by flexbonecoach on May 30, 2016 11:54:32 GMT -6
Why does it have to be their number one sport? I want the wrestler who loves wrestling but can help us in football. Football will never be his number one love, it he likes it enough to play and wants to do well. I don't think he means for individual players. That'll never happen with everybody and shouldn't. He means overall within the school. Correct. I'm more talking about the culture in general. |
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Post by coachstepp on May 30, 2016 13:10:38 GMT -6
Our school just won the state championship in basketball, so that is by far the most popular sport right now. Our soccer coach is the winningest in state history, so that is another sport we compete with.
How do you guys handle kids who play AAU all summer long. Our kids believe they will get exposure and pick up D1 offers from the AAU circuit, when, in reality, they are much better football players. With basketball being so popular, it's a tough situation for us.
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Post by coachbdud on May 30, 2016 16:41:48 GMT -6
Our school just won the state championship in basketball, so that is by far the most popular sport right now. Our soccer coach is the winningest in state history, so that is another sport we compete with. How do you guys handle kids who play AAU all summer long. Our kids believe they will get exposure and pick up D1 offers from the AAU circuit, when, in reality, they are much better football players. With basketball being so popular, it's a tough situation for us. I've had success talking to them about their height I found a breakdown on YouTube that talked about how if you're under 6'5" your chances of playing D1 basketball are almost non existent Steph curry looks like a mouse on the court and he's 6'3" There are no 5'10" guards in the NBA... There are guys that height in the NFL Lots of guys are 6'4" post players in HS... There's no position for that in college So I try to explain things like that I don't ever try to have on basketball, they can and should do both Basketball is actually my favorite sport to play I tell them this And I've played most of the school in PE at some point I'm kind of white men can't jump like I look like I'd be awful, but I'm better at basketball than I look I explain do both but that football might give them more college opportunities I also explain the NFL guys who were basketball players And how the Cowboys just drafted a dude who hasn't played in years but was a basketball player |
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Post by coachstepp on May 30, 2016 17:11:38 GMT -6
Our school just won the state championship in basketball, so that is by far the most popular sport right now. Our soccer coach is the winningest in state history, so that is another sport we compete with. How do you guys handle kids who play AAU all summer long. Our kids believe they will get exposure and pick up D1 offers from the AAU circuit, when, in reality, they are much better football players. With basketball being so popular, it's a tough situation for us. I've had success talking to them about their height I found a breakdown on YouTube that talked about how if you're under 6'5" your chances of playing D1 basketball are almost non existent Steph curry looks like a mouse on the court and he's 6'3" There are no 5'10" guards in the NBA... There are guys that height in the NFL Lots of guys are 6'4" post players in HS... There's no position for that in college So I try to explain things like that I don't ever try to have on basketball, they can and should do both Basketball is actually my favorite sport to play I tell them this And I've played most of the school in PE at some point I'm kind of white men can't jump like I look like I'd be awful, but I'm better at basketball than I look I explain do both but that football might give them more college opportunities I also explain the NFL guys who were basketball players And how the Cowboys just drafted a dude who hasn't played in years but was a basketball player This is similar to the approach I take, as well. But, the AAU coach is taking them all over the eastern U.S. and we're asking them to come to practice in July. I get it, from their standpoint. |
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Post by 19delta on May 30, 2016 17:39:49 GMT -6
Why does it have to be their number one sport? I want the wrestler who loves wrestling but can help us in football. Football will never be his number one love, it he likes it enough to play and wants to do well. I don't think he means for individual players. That'll never happen with everybody and shouldn't. He means overall within the school. Why should that make a difference? Your goal as a football coach should be to get the best athletes in the school out for football. It doesn't matter if it is their favorite sport or their 3rd favorite sport. If you are taking over a struggling program, do whatever you have to do to get the best athletes out for football! |
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