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Post by wiscoach on May 4, 2016 14:00:25 GMT -6
Just curious on your guys reasoning. Our h back/mlb would be our best lineman on either side of the ball. Our best safety would be our best d end. Really we have 1 true CB and 1 QB all the other top guys could play anywhere and be the best option.
For example the safety/d end would probably be more impactful at safety. However we actually have more depth in the secondary so the drop off would not be so severe with him at d end.
We'll be lucky to have 40 guys out 9-12
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Post by dijackson08 on May 4, 2016 17:41:54 GMT -6
We Draft.
Offense Picks 1-3
- QB
- RB
- WR
Defense Picks 4-14
- Entire Defense
Offense Picks 15-24
- Rest of Offense
Everyone else is usually our sub varsity. And we have another draft for them. Primary Offense gets 1 defensive practice a week and doubles up as our back-ups. Primary Defense gets one practice a week Offense and serves as our back-ups.
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Post by bigmoot on May 4, 2016 17:52:07 GMT -6
We also have 35 or so. We put then where they help the team best. Like OP said, a kid may be the best at one thing but help us more at another position. Really try to ensure OL only goes one way.
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Post by dytmook on May 4, 2016 17:53:26 GMT -6
We are trying to assign a primary side of the ball this year to determine on which side they get rest. Header wants to have an Oline that comes off the field together at least to start the defensive drive. They will get reps there, but we need them to have time to get adjustments together.
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Post by wingtol on May 4, 2016 19:28:49 GMT -6
Been at small schools for awhile now. Best 11 play period. As bad as it sounds it just kind of all shakes out once you get going. Small schools it becomes evident who needs to be on the field real quick so you fit them in where you can. Not very deep there but sometimes it's just the way it works. We don't even consider platooning.
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Post by carookie on May 4, 2016 19:54:39 GMT -6
At a Small school now, roughly 35 in the whole program (the 15 who play JV are the V backups). Guys play both ways, so there is no real issue with choosing a side of the ball. Within a given side of the ball it usually is exident who plays where (I'm not playing the 6'5" 300 lber at X-WR); all things are up for discussion, but the coordinator should have final say, it is his system he should know where the pieces best fit and who else could play if someone is moved to a different spot.
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Post by bigmoot on May 4, 2016 20:07:23 GMT -6
Been at small schools for awhile now. Best 11 play period. As bad as it sounds it just kind of all shakes out once you get going. Small schools it becomes evident who needs to be on the field real quick so you fit them in where you can. Not very deep there but sometimes it's just the way it works. We don't even consider platooning. Thats how we end up with a 165 pound guard. SOB is one of our best and has to play somewhere. |
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Post by groundchuck on May 5, 2016 3:45:13 GMT -6
We faced this a couple years ago. We had a tall lanky soph who had been going with the D-backs. He wasn't going to be a top D-back. We moved him to DE and he started there all year, all of last year, and will end up a three year starter there for us. You have to move kids around and find a way to get the best 11 WHO FIT on the field at the same time. It's not the best 11 but best 11 who fit together and get the job done.
If you only have 35-40 guys 9-12 it is going to be hard to find a lot of guys able to play one way. You have to start by being sure your best guys are on D. If you can't stop them you can't win. You can't outscore the good teams. If those guys have to play both ways to give you the best shot then do that.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 5:03:41 GMT -6
When I was at a 1a school, we made the QB a 1 way player. We tried to 2 platoon the lines as much as possible, particularly with a 1 way C, but that wasn't always possible.
Due to a shortage of speed, the rest of the team needed to play both ways. If 2 guys were pretty much equal athletically and we had all the other spots filled, then we would have divided those guys up so they only played one way, but that never happened.
The trick isn't to divide players up so much as it is to work the backups into a rotation that keeps those 2 way players from getting worn out on game night. You need about 16-18 players you can trust on Friday, though 8-10 might get the lions share of the reps on both sides.
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Post by jtimmerman53 on May 5, 2016 6:08:56 GMT -6
As someone who played on a A private school team with 38 players, we all got very used to playing both ways. I played OL and DL and got my rest during some special teams (I was on FG and Punt). My senior year the only guy who didn't play significant time both ways was our QB and that was because our coach's offense revolved entirely around him. It was tough at times but we knew that's what we had to do to get the job done.
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Post by coachwoodall on May 5, 2016 6:25:31 GMT -6
I did this when I was in charge of the JV of a small school (JV was grade 7-9) that usually had decent numbers (25-35 each year).
I divided the team up into a Blue group and Gold group (school colors)
--Blue group had the better lineman types
--Gold group had the better skill types
though there was a bit of mix of all types in both, and each had a kid that was capable at QB.
One team was more of the 'running' team with the athletic QB, the other was more passing with the throwing QB.
Each team spent half practice working offense vs the other on defense, then they flipped. Each group (within the scheme of the program) had a unique identity both on offense and defense. Both groups learned whole scheme, but each just focused on their strength.
During the early going of the season, the groups rotated by quarter into the game. (Gold started 1st quarter on offense, Blue on defense; 2nd quarter Blue on offense, Gold on defense) Then as the season progressed and the schedule got tougher, we added a Flashes group (school mascot) it was the best of both groups.
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Post by spreadpowero on May 5, 2016 6:50:15 GMT -6
We play the 11 best on Offense and the 11 best on defense.
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Post by blb on May 5, 2016 7:02:41 GMT -6
Pretty much like wingtol. Best players play.
My last job (school ~400 enrollment) we usually had low 20s on Varsity so platooning wasn't an option. Most years we had to start seven-eight kids both ways. We were lucky if we had "a pair and a spare" that could play at most positions.
By the time kids get to Varsity what positions they play are pretty obvious. We didn't have to make many changes.
We did allow kids to play whatever positions they wanted to at our Summer camp because they paid for it, maybe even first few days of practice. After that we would put them where we felt they could help the Team (and thus have best chance to play) most.
But as I said we didn't have to change much. Our JV coaches did good job of getting kids in the right spots.
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Post by **** on May 5, 2016 7:15:29 GMT -6
Like others have said, the best 11 tacklers you have play Defense.
Best kids play ILB and FS. Period
Bigger kids play DL.
Smaller kids play OLB.
Kids that wont tackle (kidding, sort of) but are athletic play corner.
Offense it depends on the scheme you're running.
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Post by tanavea on May 5, 2016 11:54:32 GMT -6
I'm only a JV Coach but the way that we determine positions is what is best for the team and style of play. Our best TE and our best RB are also our best Offensive Tackles. Guess where we put them? Tackle. In our offensive scheme, linemen are far more important than running backs. Anyone could play running back in our scheme and be successful with a great O-Line, and a great running back would be nothing without a good O-Line. On Defense, FS is a very important position in my mind. But I like to solidify the trenches before anything else.
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Post by carookie on May 5, 2016 13:17:09 GMT -6
Just to stir the pot up a bit I'll throw this out there- coached with a guy who would play players at where they projected (or where he felt they projected) at the next level. Had a stud athlete who was unblockable off the edge but sat him at corner and some safety because thats where he would play in college.
Though we debated it with him, he stuck by his guns of wanting to get the best film out there and better prepare players for the next level. He felt it was more important to get kids out, and better prepare them for college.
To what extent would this factor into anyone's decision making?
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Post by wingtol on May 6, 2016 6:23:26 GMT -6
Just to stir the pot up a bit I'll throw this out there- coached with a guy who would play players at where they projected (or where he felt they projected) at the next level. Had a stud athlete who was unblockable off the edge but sat him at corner and some safety because thats where he would play in college. Though we debated it with him, he stuck by his guns of wanting to get the best film out there and better prepare players for the next level. He felt it was more important to get kids out, and better prepare them for college. To what extent would this factor into anyone's decision making? 0.000% That's just dumb. No matter where a kid "projects at the next level" it doesn't matter because those colleges are gonna play the kid where they think he should. You never know what's gonna happen when a kid gets to college. Years ago we had a kid who was allegedly a top 100 recruit at LB. Ended up playing DT by his Sr. year in college. Do we want to help our kids get to the next level and play? Absolutely. But we still have to win games to keep our jobs by playing guys where they best fit for us. |
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Post by coachd5085 on May 6, 2016 23:30:35 GMT -6
Like others have said, the best 11 tacklers you have play Defense. Best kids play ILB and FS. Period Bigger kids play DL. Smaller kids play OLB. Kids that wont tackle (kidding, sort of) but are athletic play corner. Offense it depends on the scheme you're running. Good answer here. I think this is what the OP was looking for as opposed to describing how you decide which side of the ball a player plays. Most players will play both ways at small schools. How do you go about deciding WHERE that kid plays on defense or offense is trickier. I think the key is to look at it from a more global aspect. How can you piece together the best 11. You might have a kid who is a natural terrific linebacker, but you may have to consider moving him down to DE or DT if you have someone else who can be serviceable at the LB, but not be able to play DL. Or maybe you make the decision to keep him at LB, and that helps your team more. You as a coach just need to make that judgement call. Do those kids stay at FULLBACK, or do you move one to guard? |
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Post by coach2013 on May 7, 2016 4:01:24 GMT -6
We do not platoon in terms of offense/defense, but instead try to keep our skill guys fresh for defense. If we can play 5-7 backs and ends through the game, then those same kids have fresher legs for defense where we really need them to shine.
The defensive line is handled the same, we rotate 4-5 guys in there so that they are fresh for the offensive line play (where we lack depth)
My Qb plays defense every year and is almost always one of the top three tacklers on the team. We don't worry about a kid starting on both sides of the ball, that's common, but we do try to get him a few breaks on offense.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2016 12:00:41 GMT -6
Like others have said, the best 11 tacklers you have play Defense. Best kids play ILB and FS. Period Bigger kids play DL. Smaller kids play OLB. Kids that wont tackle (kidding, sort of) but are athletic play corner. Offense it depends on the scheme you're running. Good answer here. I think this is what the OP was looking for as opposed to describing how you decide which side of the ball a player plays. Most players will play both ways at small schools. How do you go about deciding WHERE that kid plays on defense or offense is trickier. I think the key is to look at it from a more global aspect. How can you piece together the best 11. You might have a kid who is a natural terrific linebacker, but you may have to consider moving him down to DE or DT if you have someone else who can be serviceable at the LB, but not be able to play DL. Or maybe you make the decision to keep him at LB, and that helps your team more. You as a coach just need to make that judgement call. Do those kids stay at FULLBACK, or do you move one to guard? The thing is that it's highly contextual. I feel like every defense needs, at a bare minimum, a quality FS, LB, and DT to hold it down at all 3 levels. Offensively, you need someone who can competently snap a football and a QB who can do something with it. Beyond that... it really is up to you to make those calls based on what you're doing, what you have to work with overall, etc. Whatever gets you the best 11 on the field is what you need to do. The first DC I ever worked under had a 5'10" 240lb, sophomore LB who was strong as an ox, physical, and pretty fast for his size. He couldn't remember his playbook, however, which made him a liability behind the 2 guys in front of him. Rather than moving that guy to DL, where he would have easily started and been a major contributor while also shoring up our defense, he kept that kid as a backup LB because "he's stud LB." A stud LB who barely saw the field. However, by the following season he was starting at LB. Would his development have been stunted if we'd played him at another position for a year? I don't know. The small school I referenced earlier had a 5'8" 120lb kid who was the fastest guy on our team and one of our best workers. The HC brought me in to install flexbone and this kid had been a WR, even though he was clearly our best home-run threat. It was only after begging for a week that I was allowed to move him to A-Back to put the ball in his hands. He wound up being our top rusher AND receiver, while also making the All Conference team. Now, if we'd had 3 other kids who were just as fast and ran just as well or better, he would have stayed at WR and started there, but we needed the ball in the hands of our best athlete and he was it. |
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Post by fantom on May 7, 2016 12:45:24 GMT -6
First, I want to say that this isn't just a small-school problem. We're all trying to put the best team on the field.
If that's the case one of the things that you have to do is forget about the "eyeball test". Just because a guy looks like he's something doesn't mean that that's what he is. Everybody who's done this for a while has had a kid who's a good athlete but not comfortable enough to play in space to play safety and becomes a tackling machine at LB. We have a kid now who looks like an ideal HS LB: 210, fast, and physical. When we played him there, though, he was a clusterphuk, his head was spinning. We put his hand in the dirt and he was damn near unblockable.
As for playing a kid at his "projected" college position, I'm against it. Those college recruiters can figure it out. We've had enough HS LB's play DB in college, DL's who became LB's, that it doesn't worry me. I saw HOF'er Mike Munchak play in HS. He was a tailback.
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Post by IronmanFootball on May 8, 2016 6:31:32 GMT -6
Just curious on your guys reasoning. Our h back/mlb would be our best lineman on either side of the ball. Our best safety would be our best d end. Really we have 1 true CB and 1 QB all the other top guys could play anywhere and be the best option. For example the safety/d end would probably be more impactful at safety. However we actually have more depth in the secondary so the drop off would not be so severe with him at d end. We'll be lucky to have 40 guys out 9-12 40 is a HUGE roster. You could 2-platoon with 40! We have 25 and only 18 safe to get on the playing field. 8 kids will start both ways in the spring game. I have a 3 tech DT that doesn't start on O (yet, may win RT job), an ILB that's my next RB in (so it's a 40/60 split for him on carries), and an ILB that is my long snapper and a back up h-back (7th grader) QB/LB RB/CB HB/NT WB/FS X/SS Z/CB LT LG/DE C/DE RG RT You have to figure out who you are and make a choice there. We need a great C, so he's our best OL. We need guards to pull so maybe a TE type kid will play G for us. We hardly use a TE because they're all guards and h-backs (TE in -5/+5) Are you winging it 50 times / game? Then put the talent at WR. Are you running 40 times / game? Then make sure the RBs are your best players. Our "H" position is our best athlete. Our QB has to be top 4-5. Our RB has to be quick through the hole. Our X SHOULD be a great pos receiver at the least. We really need 2 good RBs to keep them fresh. |
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Post by coachd5085 on May 8, 2016 8:05:15 GMT -6
That is kind of a relative statement though. If his opponents have 40 jr and srs...40 9-12 is pretty small. |
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Post by wingtol on May 8, 2016 9:22:39 GMT -6
Just curious on your guys reasoning. Our h back/mlb would be our best lineman on either side of the ball. Our best safety would be our best d end. Really we have 1 true CB and 1 QB all the other top guys could play anywhere and be the best option. For example the safety/d end would probably be more impactful at safety. However we actually have more depth in the secondary so the drop off would not be so severe with him at d end. We'll be lucky to have 40 guys out 9-12 40 is a HUGE roster. You could 2-platoon with 40! We have 25 and only 18 safe to get on the playing field. 8 kids will start both ways in the spring game. I have a 3 tech DT that doesn't start on O (yet, may win RT job), an ILB that's my next RB in (so it's a 40/60 split for him on carries), and an ILB that is my long snapper and a back up h-back (7th grader) QB/LB RB/CB HB/NT WB/FS X/SS Z/CB LT LG/DE C/DE RG RT You have to figure out who you are and make a choice there. We need a great C, so he's our best OL. We need guards to pull so maybe a TE type kid will play G for us. We hardly use a TE because they're all guards and h-backs (TE in -5/+5) Are you winging it 50 times / game? Then put the talent at WR. Are you running 40 times / game? Then make sure the RBs are your best players. Our "H" position is our best athlete. Our QB has to be top 4-5. Our RB has to be quick through the hole. Our X SHOULD be a great pos receiver at the least. We really need 2 good RBs to keep them fresh. We had about 40 9-12 this year and no way in hell could we have platooned!! Our JV games were on Mondays a lot and we would have 13-14 varsity guys left over. I couldn't imagine having that many JV quality kids on the field at once. Being in a small class also means most other teams have the same problem and play guys two ways. We had some good JV players but a good 180 lb JV OL is t gonna get it done vs a Sr 250 DL 90% of the time. Sure someone one will prove me wrong but 40 guys 9-12 isn't an ideal situation to platoon. 40 Jr/Sr is a different situation all together. |
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Post by coachpech on May 8, 2016 13:53:35 GMT -6
Just curious on your guys reasoning. Our h back/mlb would be our best lineman on either side of the ball. Our best safety would be our best d end. Really we have 1 true CB and 1 QB all the other top guys could play anywhere and be the best option. For example the safety/d end would probably be more impactful at safety. However we actually have more depth in the secondary so the drop off would not be so severe with him at d end. We'll be lucky to have 40 guys out 9-12 Boy does this sound familiar. Good thread, thanks! |
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Post by coachpech on May 8, 2016 13:55:31 GMT -6
We also have 35 or so. We put then where they help the team best. Like OP said, a kid may be the best at one thing but help us more at another position. Really try to ensure OL only goes one way. How far do you stretch that linemen only play one way? Our 3 dline guys are 3 of best 5 on oline... |
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Post by bigmoot on May 8, 2016 14:42:33 GMT -6
Starting OL will probably be back up DL. I have done a "starting" DL and in reality a "when they cross the 50 DL"
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Post by 33coach on May 8, 2016 15:26:48 GMT -6
Just curious on your guys reasoning. Our h back/mlb would be our best lineman on either side of the ball. Our best safety would be our best d end. Really we have 1 true CB and 1 QB all the other top guys could play anywhere and be the best option. For example the safety/d end would probably be more impactful at safety. However we actually have more depth in the secondary so the drop off would not be so severe with him at d end. We'll be lucky to have 40 guys out 9-12 we focus on filling the key positions: -- Offense: QB, Center, Fullback -- Defense: Nose, MLB, FS once those 6 are defined. we go player by player - figure out what they do best and put them there. in the years that ive been doing this, ive NEVER had a kid who was equally amazing on offense as defense. not saying it doesnt happen...but ive never been that lucky. |
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Post by mariner42 on May 8, 2016 16:03:48 GMT -6
Starting OL will probably be back up DL. I have done a "starting" DL and in reality a "when they cross the 50 DL" I've said this before but I think it bears repeating: Think chess, not checkers. Coaches that are playing checkers try to shut down the offense on the their side of the 50. Coaches that are playing chess understand that sometimes you give a bit of ground in order to get your guys a break, then put them in once the offense crosses the +40. It's a complex game and sometimes you've gotta be creative and think 2-3 steps ahead in order to overcome deficiencies. Our best RB didn't get much action in weeks 9-10 because our HC knew we would need him in order to make a strong playoff run. It made Week 10 a bit tighter than perhaps it should've, but fresh legs in the playoffs are invaluable. Food for thought. |
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Post by eaglemountie on May 9, 2016 11:03:08 GMT -6
You know football is tough...
But we don't play at a pace where a kid that has put time in the off season couldn't play an entire game on both O and D maybe a couple special teams here and there...
We dress 25-30...
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