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Post by coach2013 on Apr 19, 2016 17:15:46 GMT -6
In response to the questions about bad head coaches, bad staffs....
What about when the HC is extremely passionate, even OBSESSED about football....but the assistant coaches don't love football the way the HC loves football?
I suppose you take the best help you can find.
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Post by **** on Apr 19, 2016 17:29:40 GMT -6
Get the most you can out of them for the time being. Bring in new people that are dedicated and willing to work. Send the lackadaisical coaches down to the middle school.
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Post by lochness on Apr 19, 2016 17:37:32 GMT -6
I don't know why anyone would want to spend their time and energy on coaching if they didn't love it. That would drive me crazy.
That said, it's all relative I think. Some guys love football and coaching, but not nearly as much as you do. They may love the IDEA of coaching...but the reality of it is a different story. I tend to judge people's "love" for coaching football against mine...but most will admittedly come up short in that category. I have a phenomenal staff...but I'm not sure any of those guys are as loony as I am about coaching and details. That doesn't mean they aren't good at their jobs, though.
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Post by rsmith627 on Apr 19, 2016 17:40:36 GMT -6
I don't know why anyone would want to spend their time and energy on coaching if they didn't love it. That would drive me crazy. That said, it's all relative I think. Some guys love football and coaching, but not nearly as much as you do. They may love the IDEA of coaching...but the reality of it is a different story. I tend to judge people's "love" for coaching football against mine...but most will admittedly come up short in that category. I have a phenomenal staff...but I'm not sure any of those guys are as loony as I am about coaching and details. That doesn't mean they aren't good at their jobs, though. I don't know either. I have a buddy who coaches in a pretty good program and doesn't love it anymore. He still puts in just as strong of an effort as he always has, but still isn't nearly as excited to do it as he used to be. I guess it is kind of like the classroom. Teachers are human and we all have days we are tired, but we usually don't show it and our kids don't pay the price because we didn't get that extra hour of sleep we needed. Still, not sure why he does it if he doesn't love it.
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Post by 60zgo on Apr 19, 2016 18:07:38 GMT -6
Some guys want to coach. Some guys want to be a coach.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Apr 19, 2016 18:11:36 GMT -6
In response to the questions about bad head coaches, bad staffs....
What about when the HC is extremely passionate, even OBSESSED about football....but the assistant coaches don't love football the way the HC loves football?
I suppose you take the best help you can find. In a very similar situation. I'm sure there's one guy who's really competent, make him an OC or dc and you run the other side of the ball. Another thing is to have more group work (pat and go, pursuit drills, half line, read drill, etc.) and less individual. No, this is no an ideal thing to do but you're not in an ideal situation. Nothing is worse than having your kids spend a substantial amount of time with an incompetent coach.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Apr 19, 2016 18:14:21 GMT -6
I don't know why anyone would want to spend their time and energy on coaching if they didn't love it. That would drive me crazy. That said, it's all relative I think. Some guys love football and coaching, but not nearly as much as you do. They may love the IDEA of coaching...but the reality of it is a different story. I tend to judge people's "love" for coaching football against mine...but most will admittedly come up short in that category. I have a phenomenal staff...but I'm not sure any of those guys are as loony as I am about coaching and details. That doesn't mean they aren't good at their jobs, though. This is very true. Many of the guys are assistant coaches are not all that into it but will show everyday, blow their whistles, and post some pictures of them in their polo shirts. Most aren't subscribers of x and o labs, have a big bookshelf of coaching items, or troll on Huey for the vast majority of the day all while breaking down hours of film.
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Post by **** on Apr 19, 2016 18:32:04 GMT -6
subscriber of x and o labs, have a big bookshelf of coaching items, or troll on Huey for the vast majority of the day all while breaking down hours of film. This is basically what will be written on my tombstone
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Post by wingtol on Apr 19, 2016 18:48:51 GMT -6
Maybe that's why they are assistant coaches and not head coaches.
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Post by rsmith627 on Apr 19, 2016 18:54:58 GMT -6
Maybe that's why they are assistant coaches and not head coaches. Excellent point. Still though, most assistants make $2000 or less. Why the hell would one invest so much time into what amounts to cents per hour if they can't/won't be all in?
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Post by fantom on Apr 19, 2016 19:16:52 GMT -6
Of course, in come cases the assistants do love football but the HC doesn't think so because he's out of his freakin' mind.
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Post by hunhdisciple on Apr 19, 2016 19:17:15 GMT -6
I feel awkward when I realize that other asst coaches don't feel the way I feel.
A lot of guys coach because they still want to be part of the game and want to do all of that. Other guys want to coach and have a tendency to let it consume themselves. I'm in the latter, so I can't always get the guys who don't throw themselves into it. But, at the same time, I do get their side of it.
I don't think those guys are bad at their jobs, especially if they're willing to work hard at it when they're there.
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Post by carookie on Apr 19, 2016 23:21:43 GMT -6
Been in a situation like this. Had a HC whose whole life was football, literally missed his kid's graduation to go work a camp. Only thing he ever wanted to do was football stuff. Conversely the DC was relatively lackadaisical, got his work done, but wasnt gonna watch much film or put forth any extra effort.
Now, please realize that both ends of this spectrum hurt the team. Im sure most here see the issues with the DC, and his lack of effort; but the HC's passion was also misguided and led to issues. Not only was football his job, but it was his hobby, so he'd try to install a dozen new things in a given week during the season (not an exaggeration). He'd call in players at all times during the school week for relatively unimportant things (watch films of a drill he found); and in turn burn his players out. He'd want to meet constantly regardless if it was needed.
Eventually there reached a point when the team reached a point of negative returns; there came a point where the constant amount of football overwhelmed the team (sometimes people just need to sleep and things like that). In some cases we need to find a balance between our love of the game, and what is most conducive to building a successful program.
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Post by coachpech on Apr 20, 2016 6:55:51 GMT -6
As an assistant who feels like I put in every ounce of effort and free time I have, it's very frustrating to see other assistants who are not. I've had a hard time telling myself that until the HC puts some expectations on assistants like this there really isn't much I can do. Just takes a lot of self control to just not completely snap sometimes. Why should a guy who puts no time in the off-season in be able to stand tall with those who do. The kids see things like this believe it or not and the staff wonders why they don't respect coaches like this.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Apr 20, 2016 7:04:49 GMT -6
Of course, in come cases the assistants do love football but the HC doesn't think so because he's out of his freakin' mind. That's right. Obsession and love are two different things. You can't fault people for not having the same level of passion for something that you do.
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Post by 60zgo on Apr 20, 2016 7:33:39 GMT -6
The only thing I would add to this is how hard are you coaching your secondary sports? Because of the staffing needs of many districts and the size of your school you may have a few guys on the football staff where football just isn't a top priority.(And that's okay) The head baseball or basketball coach has been a football coach at most places I've been, and only one of them was truly jacked about coaching football. All of those guys were quality people for the most part and always did an adequate job. I don't think every member of your staff needs to be super cracked out on football to have a strong program. When I was a young asst and had to coach girls sub-varsity basketball and tennis I wasn't exactly "all-in".
With that said some guys just want to be a coach. They want to put on the polo on game day and yell at kids. They want to strut around town and be called coach. You need to get rid of those guys ASAP.
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Post by jgordon1 on Apr 20, 2016 8:14:34 GMT -6
As an assistant who feels like I put in every ounce of effort and free time I have, it's very frustrating to see other assistants who are not. I've had a hard time telling myself that until the HC puts some expectations on assistants like this there really isn't much I can do. Just takes a lot of self control to just not completely snap sometimes. Why should a guy who puts no time in the off-season in be able to stand tall with those who do. The kids see things like this believe it or not and the staff wonders why they don't respect coaches like this. yes I agree, and selfishly, the other thing that bothers me is the Frosh coach makes like $300 less me and does almost nothing
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Post by coachpech on Apr 20, 2016 8:49:28 GMT -6
As an assistant who feels like I put in every ounce of effort and free time I have, it's very frustrating to see other assistants who are not. I've had a hard time telling myself that until the HC puts some expectations on assistants like this there really isn't much I can do. Just takes a lot of self control to just not completely snap sometimes. Why should a guy who puts no time in the off-season in be able to stand tall with those who do. The kids see things like this believe it or not and the staff wonders why they don't respect coaches like this. yes I agree, and selfishly, the other thing that bothers me is the Frosh coach makes like $300 less me and does almost nothing All of our assistants are paid the same 9th-12th. Only the HC makes more money than the rest of us. But it's still terribly frustrating that guys like that are making equal pay and we're lucky to get him to one meeting a month. It's tough to continue to tell the kids they need to be committed when they don't see staff members committed. I just try and take deep breathes as much as possible and tell myself, I'm doing this for the kids and no amount of time spent is ever enough for the help most of our kids need.
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Post by coachpech on Apr 20, 2016 8:51:31 GMT -6
The only thing I would add to this is how hard are you coaching your secondary sports? Because of the staffing needs of many districts and the size of your school you may have a few guys on the football staff where football just isn't a top priority.(And that's okay) The head baseball or basketball coach has been a football coach at most places I've been, and only one of them was truly jacked about coaching football. All of those guys were quality people for the most part and always did an adequate job. I don't think every member of your staff needs to be super cracked out on football to have a strong program. When I was a young asst and had to coach girls sub-varsity basketball and tennis I wasn't exactly "all-in". With that said some guys just want to be a coach. They want to put on the polo on game day and yell at kids. They want to strut around town and be called coach. You need to get rid of those guys ASAP. I've recently taken the middle school wrestling job and middle school track job just to get a relationship built up with kids to get them to know my face and my attitude when it comes to coaching. There's been a major disconnect between varsity and junior high at our school, almost like it's 2 completely separate programs. And the HC wonders why we get >30% of kids out for football that were out their 8th grade year.
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Post by fshamrock on Apr 20, 2016 9:26:40 GMT -6
Of course, in come cases the assistants do love football but the HC doesn't think so because he's out of his freakin' mind. exact point I was going to make, if we are making progress toward a common goal I am with you, but if we are "grinding for the sake of grinding" then it can get old for everybody, and it has nothing to do with love of football or coaching. If you were in army and the sergeant told you to dig a big hole then fill it back up again over and over, not being excited about it doesn't make you not patriotic
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Post by s73 on Apr 20, 2016 10:01:56 GMT -6
I truly believe that many assistant coaches genuinely don't realize the amount of time and commitment needed for them to be OUTSTANDING at their jobs.
I think many of them think they are doing a GREAT job when they are doing a good job. And many think they are doing a good job when they are doing a mediocre job and so forth.
BTW, I'm sure the same could be said for many HC's.
I have a very good staff, but I do find that many guys seem to think b/c they work in the off season that they should be given more duties/ prestige and I have to keep explaining to them that "extra stuff" is really the norm.
That for me has been the biggest issue.
With that said, I cannot complain. My guys are pretty solid.
Most of them don't want to be HC's so I try not to have "HC expectations " of them.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Apr 20, 2016 10:14:46 GMT -6
Like others have stated, I think it's a certain level of accountability and expectations that need to be 1) communicated by the HC and 2) dudes held accountable.
HC's need to find a balance between the fraternal aspects of coaching (the brotherhood/friendships) and the job. Whether a coach loves football like I do or not, I expect my guys to work like they love it. Being unprepared for weekend meetings/practice is inexcusable. Not "coaching" what needs to be coached in indy is inexcusable. Not attending to details during position meetings is never excusable.
Regardless of pay or volunteer, we have a job to do. It is expected, not unlike being a teacher/cop/lawyer/server that we do our job the best we can. Anything less than that needs to be addressed. It doesn't matter if an assistant doesn't like watching film- his a$$ better be watching film...nobody asked if he likes it or not.
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Post by wingtol on Apr 20, 2016 10:27:11 GMT -6
Obsession: a state in which someone thinks about someone or something constantly or frequently especially in a way that is not normal
Is obsession necessarily a healthy thing? Do you need to be obsessed with something to be good at it?
I think there is a huge difference of being obsessed with something and being good at it. Seems like people are confusing not doing your job/assigned duties/meeting expectations and having some kind of intense love/obsession/passion for the game.
I'm not obsessed with football, I love it, I think I do a good job coaching, I spend a lot of time on it, I study it the off-season but it doesn't control every aspect of my life. I mean heck honestly outside of our games and scout film or being at a local game I couldn't tell you the last time I watched a whole football game.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Apr 20, 2016 10:47:46 GMT -6
Same here. I'm not obsessed. I go through spurts. I stay busy coaching other sports (youth lacrosse this spring) and running our weight room. I don't want to be obsessed. I have a family and a 7 year old that needs me to be a father. During the season I'm not around a lot. So out of season I'm around and they have my full attention 100% of time.
With that said: Vacation? We rarely do vacations longer than a weekend- summer time is pre-season for me...workouts/7v7 etc...have stuff to do. NOTHING gets schedule from August-December...count us out because we have games to win.
Do I expect all of my coaches to do the same? No way. I have mandatory stuff few and far between in the offseason. I do this because I expect 100% full commitment from August until the final whistle. That's non-negotiable.
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Post by jgordon1 on Apr 20, 2016 13:53:15 GMT -6
Someone once remarked to me, I wish I had the passion about something that you have for football..that was pretty cool
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Post by rsmith627 on Apr 20, 2016 14:29:05 GMT -6
Someone once remarked to me, I wish I had the passion about something that you have for football..that was pretty cool My wife says that to me all of the time.
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Post by Stangs13065 on Apr 20, 2016 14:59:21 GMT -6
Gotta find coaches with passion. Kids can sense when a coach doesn't really care. Surrounding yourself with good assistants is just as important as being a good coach yourself.
And regarding obsession; here's my thought: You don't have to be obsessed to be good at something, but you do have to be obsessed to be great.
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Post by coachcb on Apr 20, 2016 15:02:26 GMT -6
I've run off many assistants over the years by just demanding that they do the job that they're hired for. They bail once they realize that I WILL be micromanaging them if the necessary skills aren't being taught. I understand that an eye for detail needs to be developed but I won't be a happy camper if I see the kids screwing up the same basics again and again.
A guy either learns that coaching is about teaching the skills necessary to play the game or they don't. If they don't, they go away.
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Post by Wingtman on Apr 20, 2016 19:03:56 GMT -6
First game last year, Down 6-0 at half. Couldn't get anything going on offense ( I was OC) . Im taking a piss at halftime, one of the other coaches was too and I was just venting and really talking to myself (little back story: This guy was assigned to us, he didnt wanna be here, he was just a warm body in place. He couldnt run a drill, even warmups, the kids didnt respect him.) As I was finshed, he looked at me, "Hey man, chill out, its just for fun. What time will we be done you think?" I nearly lost it right there. I told the Head Coach on the bus ride home what happend, and said, "look, one of us isn't going to be at practice Monday. I'll let you choose." Never saw that guy again, not even on campus.
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Post by CoachDaniel on Apr 20, 2016 21:40:03 GMT -6
It's always bothered me. But I'm trying to come to terms with the fact that there are guys who are passionate coaches, guys who are adequate coaches (can run the drills you give them, aren't going to contribute much in a staff meeting), and guys who are babysitters. You prefer a staff full of passionate guys. It's not always the reality. Sometimes you just need a couple of babysitters that can pass a background check when you have 150 kids in the program. There's a fourth group of coaches that are detrimental to the program. They've got to go. "Hey man, chill out, its just for fun. What time will we be done you think?" That guy would be detrimental to my health. I am part of the program.
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