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Post by NC1974 on Apr 6, 2016 18:31:02 GMT -6
Interested in some your opinions on what you guys do if one of the coaches on staff simply doesn't put any time or effort in? It's always an excuse that something is going on with his family. I'm always a family first guy so I keep my mouth shut but it's a little ridiculous that 5 coaches do the work of 7 during the off season. How do you go about addressing this frustration? Both him and I are assistants, his best friend is the AD.... other coaches on staff agree but it hasn't been talked about as a whole. Personally my feelings are that if you don't have the time to dedicate to help turn a program around then why waste your time? Especially frustrating when we could use someone more motivated and football smart in his position....maybe I just need to relax but it's very very frustrating when he contributes nothing. How do you define "not putting any time or effort in"? I ask, because if the guy is fulfilling the HC's expectations, then there is not a problem. Just as an example, let's say the HC requires that all ACs be in the weight room at least twice a week during the offseason. Now let's say 5 of the 7 coaches choose to be in the weightroom everyday because they are that dedicated, and want to do whatever they can to help the program. Now the other two coaches, only do the two days they are required to do. I have seen situations like this create bad blood among staffs because some feel that others aren't pulling their weight, but in reality, they are all meeting the HCs expectations. and then there is this kind of thing: I was on a staff, years ago where we were all required to scout Saturday games together. So my first time going, we meet up at a bar....I've got notepad, pencil, etc. Nobody else has anything. We proceed to sit around and drink for two hours and don't make it the game until halftime, at which point we all sit around and basically talk. I was ticked...I thought I was reporting for work, not happy hour (not that I mind having a few). I guess my point is HC's should have clear expectations, and when they require you to be there for something, it better be work. I'm not saying that either of these relate exactly to your problem, but without clear expectations, it can be frustrating for everyone to find that sweet spot where everybody is pulling their weight.
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Post by coachjm on Apr 6, 2016 18:37:04 GMT -6
In the last 5 years we have really sized down on things: - Our offseason lifting is 2 days a week we coach up those who are there and give them some incentives and don't worry about those who aren't (still encourage them to play) - Summer we go to three days and are always done in an hour and a half - Cut back on camp dates and 7 on 7's - Nothing on the weekends in or out of season - No practice on labor day - No two a day practices - We no longer condition at the end of practice - We no longer run formal structured stretching periods at the start of practice - We don't hit much in practice - We practice much less time per day then we used too.. Really the only thing that has increased is our use of film but much of this has to do with the availability to film due to Hudl... Our results on the field is a variable that is tough to judge because there are many factors that go into it (we have won more games) my view is our programs have benefitted because our kids are fresher, always seemingly wanting more football and are choosing to find ways to get extra work rather then dreading the fact that their coach is making them do something. The switch in culture due us REQUIRING less has led to our kids having more fun, our parents being happier with our staff and more approachable, and most importantly me happier as I'm not stressed about many of the things I was trying to control that I really had no control over... How is the lifting only two days a week going? Serious question. Reason is because I got back into lifting last September for the first time in 12 years since my last week of my senior college season. The program I started is by a guy named Jim Wendler and his "5 3 1" program (best thing I've ever done or come across by the way and will definitely be doing it if/when I get another chance a HC), but there have been many weeks where I've only been able to get in two good workouts a week (couple hours long, doubling up Push Press/Dead Lift one day then Squat/Bench the other) and I never missed a beat...continued gains...more than ever (even during hs and college playing days). So, I've thought that if my 34 year old out of shape, has been a$$ can make big time strength gains....surely 14-18 year would be an automatic and then some. That really came about due to logistics, originally we had the weight room open in the morning and after school, I work, live and coach 100 miles apart so 2 days a week was really all I could do in the offseason on top of going to other school functions. Other coaches picked up the rest, my guys who ran some of the others retired or moved on and rather then having someone else pick it up last year we went to two days a week. This winter we had the best gains I have ever had... With that said my preference is 4 days a week so really that is identical to 2 days just longer lifting sessions. Our attendance is fantastic near 100% with us only giving incentives and placing no pressure on the kids to attend. I do think there is a benefit that way. When we started at our school zero kids could squat 300 lbs last fall we had 15 and we are up to 22 right now and likely will be near 25 or more come fall that is out around 30 varsity football players. This is due to the consistentcy of their attendance and the intensity in the room. It is a lot easier to get fired up for two days a week and get after it.
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Post by holmesbend on Apr 6, 2016 19:01:01 GMT -6
I totally agree with that....much easier to get excited about two, than four and really go to work on those two days.
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Post by silkyice on Apr 6, 2016 19:27:56 GMT -6
In the last 5 years we have really sized down on things: - Our offseason lifting is 2 days a week we coach up those who are there and give them some incentives and don't worry about those who aren't (still encourage them to play) - Summer we go to three days and are always done in an hour and a half - Cut back on camp dates and 7 on 7's - Nothing on the weekends in or out of season - No practice on labor day - No two a day practices - We no longer condition at the end of practice - We no longer run formal structured stretching periods at the start of practice - We don't hit much in practice - We practice much less time per day then we used too.. Really the only thing that has increased is our use of film but much of this has to do with the availability to film due to Hudl... Our results on the field is a variable that is tough to judge because there are many factors that go into it (we have won more games) my view is our programs have benefitted because our kids are fresher, always seemingly wanting more football and are choosing to find ways to get extra work rather then dreading the fact that their coach is making them do something. The switch in culture due us REQUIRING less has led to our kids having more fun, our parents being happier with our staff and more approachable, and most importantly me happier as I'm not stressed about many of the things I was trying to control that I really had no control over... How is the lifting only two days a week going? Serious question. Reason is because I got back into lifting last September for the first time in 12 years since my last week of my senior college season. The program I started is by a guy named Jim Wendler and his "5 3 1" program (best thing I've ever done or come across by the way and will definitely be doing it if/when I get another chance a HC), but there have been many weeks where I've only been able to get in two good workouts a week (couple hours long, doubling up Push Press/Dead Lift one day then Squat/Bench the other) and I never missed a beat...continued gains...more than ever (even during hs and college playing days). So, I've thought that if my 34 year old out of shape, has been a$$ can make big time strength gains....surely 14-18 year olds would be an automatic and then some. We have only worked out 2 days a week for my 19 years as head coach. I had guys bench over 400 and tons over 300. Plenty of guys squat over 500. Guys clean over 300. Won plenty and had plenty of d1 players. Left programs and the guys started doing tons more but got weaker. We lift year round. Lift heavy. Lift hard. Number of days and sets pales in comparison to those first three things.
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Post by silkyice on Apr 6, 2016 19:33:51 GMT -6
How is the lifting only two days a week going? Serious question. Reason is because I got back into lifting last September for the first time in 12 years since my last week of my senior college season. The program I started is by a guy named Jim Wendler and his "5 3 1" program (best thing I've ever done or come across by the way and will definitely be doing it if/when I get another chance a HC), but there have been many weeks where I've only been able to get in two good workouts a week (couple hours long, doubling up Push Press/Dead Lift one day then Squat/Bench the other) and I never missed a beat...continued gains...more than ever (even during hs and college playing days). So, I've thought that if my 34 year old out of shape, has been a$$ can make big time strength gains....surely 14-18 year olds would be an automatic and then some. We have only worked out 2 days a week for my 19 years as head coach. I had guys bench over 400 and tons over 300. Plenty of guys squat over 500. Guys clean over 300. Won plenty and had plenty of d1 players. Left programs and the guys started doing tons more but got weaker. We lift year round. Lift heavy. Lift hard. Number of days and sets pales in comparison to those first three things. Oh, and I know that d1 players are different, but had d1 players that benched 225 and squatted 300 and one and a half years later benched over 350 and squatted over 500. With just two days a week!!
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Post by coachpech on Apr 6, 2016 20:10:26 GMT -6
Interested in some your opinions on what you guys do if one of the coaches on staff simply doesn't put any time or effort in? It's always an excuse that something is going on with his family. I'm always a family first guy so I keep my mouth shut but it's a little ridiculous that 5 coaches do the work of 7 during the off season. How do you go about addressing this frustration? Both him and I are assistants, his best friend is the AD.... other coaches on staff agree but it hasn't been talked about as a whole. Personally my feelings are that if you don't have the time to dedicate to help turn a program around then why waste your time? Especially frustrating when we could use someone more motivated and football smart in his position....maybe I just need to relax but it's very very frustrating when he contributes nothing. How do you define "not putting any time or effort in"? I ask, because if the guy is fulfilling the HC's expectations, then there is not a problem. Just as an example, let's say the HC requires that all ACs be in the weight room at least twice a week during the offseason. Now let's say 5 of the 7 coaches choose to be in the weightroom everyday because they are that dedicated, and want to do whatever they can to help the program. Now the other two coaches, only do the two days they are required to do. I have seen situations like this create bad blood among staffs because some feel that others aren't pulling their weight, but in reality, they are all meeting the HCs expectations. and then there is this kind of thing: I was on a staff, years ago where we were all required to scout Saturday games together. So my first time going, we meet up at a bar....I've got notepad, pencil, etc. Nobody else has anything. We proceed to sit around and drink for two hours and don't make it the game until halftime, at which point we all sit around and basically talk. I was ticked...I thought I was reporting for work, not happy hour (not that I mind having a few). I guess my point is HC's should have clear expectations, and when they require you to be there for something, it better be work. I'm not saying that either of these relate exactly to your problem, but without clear expectations, it can be frustrating for everyone to find that sweet spot where everybody is pulling their weight. The opinion I'll use is meetings. We don't really have any off-season plans as a staff, we encourage lifting, agility, speed training and being out for other sports. But there's really no accountability on the kids to participate. For instance, I'm coaching middle school track at the same school, we have 70 kids out between boys and girls 7th and 8th grade. Great numbers if you ask me. For a smaller school. Varsity boys have only 18 kids out and only 8 of them are football players. That's very very frustrating, especially after talking to other coaches I know and their attendance of football kids out for track is nearly 60-70%. Clearly that needs to improve for our program to grow. The coaches all agree that is just one of many important factors. However, when it comes time to scheduling coaches meetings there's always an excuse or a reason why it wont work. Not just with meetings but fundraising events etc. And who knows maybe there really is something going on. But personally speaking, no matter what's going on...I make time for it. I guess maybe my expectations are too high for what it takes but honestly last year we wont 2 games in my first season with the school. They hadn't won 2 games in 1 season for 10 years. There's a reason for that and it can't be just blamed on having average to below average athletes. All the coaches are great guys, but having spent 2 years at a 4A school previously I know what it takes to succeed and meeting 3-4 times as coaches in the off-season with ALL the coaches present will not cut it. We are making strides just not very quickly, and I admittedly struggle with patience. Just trying to find a happy medium I suppose, I want it so bad for the kids and it's frustrating to feel like we expect things out of them that we can't accomplish as a staff. I apologize for turning venting. I just don't really have any other options of people to vent to because of the relationships of those involved. Doing so on a public forum may not be the smartest idea either, just know that you guys may have some experience with stuff like this where as a 31 year old I don't.
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Post by jg78 on Apr 7, 2016 5:34:31 GMT -6
I don't like frequent family excuses. As far as I'm concerned, everyone's private life is completely equal. A family man going to see his son play ball at the park is no different from a single guy going down to the casino. An occasional emergency I can understand, but we all have work to do and I don't think someone's family life (or lack of it) is an excuse to expect more or less out of a person.
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Post by coachpech on Apr 7, 2016 6:15:01 GMT -6
I don't like frequent family excuses. As far as I'm concerned, everyone's private life is completely equal. A family man going to see his son play ball at the park is no different from a single guy going down to the casino. An occasional emergency I can understand, but we all have work to do and I don't think someone's family life (or lack of it) is an excuse to expect more or less out of a person. I agree but when the excuse is always something going on with his kids and family then I don't say anything. I'm getting married in 2 months, I coach middle school track, middle school wrestling, work a full time job, drive for uber, I'm responsible for all of the fundraising, I'm responsible for the media guide, I'm the special teams coordinator and head o/l d/l coach.....needless to say I feel like it would be more justifiable for me to have an excuse....
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Post by Defcord on Apr 7, 2016 6:19:53 GMT -6
pech is not the HC, there is nothing he can do about situation - except b!tch about a colleague on a message board.
I should explain, I really like the guy.He's what I would consider a good friend now and I'm not talking {censored} about him just frustrated with the amount of effort it seems to put out. But I also do not have kids so I cant fully relate so I choose to just not say anything. We make do and are working towards an improved year next year. I found it's very hard to ask a grown man to work for free in the offseason with everyone else's kids when he has kids of his own he hasn't spent enough time with for months in the regular season. When I was young I didn't get why anyone would not want to be with the team all of the time. As I have gotten older and so has my son, I definitely am starting to understand. The other day my kid's class had to write a letter to one of their parents and my son wrote me one. The first line "Dad, I really love you but I wish we could spend more time together." Money has never been a motivator for me. I would never hold back from team functions in the offseason because of the lack of pay, but when I read that line from my son it changed my perspective.
I do think as a coach it's good to find balance and contribute in the offseason, but I don't think it's bad if you aren't there for every single team function, workout, etc.
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Post by NC1974 on Apr 7, 2016 7:04:08 GMT -6
How do you define "not putting any time or effort in"? I ask, because if the guy is fulfilling the HC's expectations, then there is not a problem. Just as an example, let's say the HC requires that all ACs be in the weight room at least twice a week during the offseason. Now let's say 5 of the 7 coaches choose to be in the weightroom everyday because they are that dedicated, and want to do whatever they can to help the program. Now the other two coaches, only do the two days they are required to do. I have seen situations like this create bad blood among staffs because some feel that others aren't pulling their weight, but in reality, they are all meeting the HCs expectations. and then there is this kind of thing: I was on a staff, years ago where we were all required to scout Saturday games together. So my first time going, we meet up at a bar....I've got notepad, pencil, etc. Nobody else has anything. We proceed to sit around and drink for two hours and don't make it the game until halftime, at which point we all sit around and basically talk. I was ticked...I thought I was reporting for work, not happy hour (not that I mind having a few). I guess my point is HC's should have clear expectations, and when they require you to be there for something, it better be work. I'm not saying that either of these relate exactly to your problem, but without clear expectations, it can be frustrating for everyone to find that sweet spot where everybody is pulling their weight. The opinion I'll use is meetings. We don't really have any off-season plans as a staff, we encourage lifting, agility, speed training and being out for other sports. But there's really no accountability on the kids to participate. For instance, I'm coaching middle school track at the same school, we have 70 kids out between boys and girls 7th and 8th grade. Great numbers if you ask me. For a smaller school. Varsity boys have only 18 kids out and only 8 of them are football players. That's very very frustrating, especially after talking to other coaches I know and their attendance of football kids out for track is nearly 60-70%. Clearly that needs to improve for our program to grow. The coaches all agree that is just one of many important factors. However, when it comes time to scheduling coaches meetings there's always an excuse or a reason why it wont work. Not just with meetings but fundraising events etc. And who knows maybe there really is something going on. But personally speaking, no matter what's going on...I make time for it. I guess maybe my expectations are too high for what it takes but honestly last year we wont 2 games in my first season with the school. They hadn't won 2 games in 1 season for 10 years. There's a reason for that and it can't be just blamed on having average to below average athletes. All the coaches are great guys, but having spent 2 years at a 4A school previously I know what it takes to succeed and meeting 3-4 times as coaches in the off-season with ALL the coaches present will not cut it. We are making strides just not very quickly, and I admittedly struggle with patience. Just trying to find a happy medium I suppose, I want it so bad for the kids and it's frustrating to feel like we expect things out of them that we can't accomplish as a staff. I apologize for turning venting. I just don't really have any other options of people to vent to because of the relationships of those involved. Doing so on a public forum may not be the smartest idea either, just know that you guys may have some experience with stuff like this where as a 31 year old I don't. Coach, While I feel your frustration, it sounds to me like you have a problem with the way the program is being run. Sounds like you'd like the HC to have higher expectations. All you can do is share these thoughts with the HC, if you're comfortable doing that. Beyond that, it's his program. But I would say, don't let your expectations sour you on other coaches...they are not expected to live up to YOUR expectations, but rather the HC's.
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Post by coachpech on Apr 7, 2016 7:18:24 GMT -6
Coach, While I feel your frustration, it sounds to me like you have a problem with the way the program is being run. Sounds like you'd like the HC to have higher expectations. All you can do is share these thoughts with the HC, if you're comfortable doing that. Beyond that, it's his program. But I would say, don't let your expectations sour you on other coaches...they are not expected to live up to YOUR expectations, but rather the HC's. Very well said. Unfortunately, I do not have any control over his expectations. I shared my thoughts at season's end last year, I feel as though I've done just about all I can do and will continue to make the most of it knowing I'm giving my best effort.
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Post by groundchuck on Apr 7, 2016 7:48:50 GMT -6
Off-season stuff in Minnesota is pretty limited. There is no football coaching (or coaching any other sport) out of season except in the summer. Even then football is limited (no other sport is though?). We only run our strength and conditioning program three times a week. We won't get kids 4-5 times a week. We try not to put too much on their plate. We don't want to suffer football burnout. Even before the restrictions went into place we never over did it.
Now in-season? We are pretty demanding. We don't have a bunch of rules we can't enforce. Having rules doesn't make you demanding. It makes you a rule writer. We have three rules (and then some logistical/procedural things they have to do). 1. Be early. To be on time is to be late, to be late is to be forgotten. Never be forgotten. 2. Be where you are supposed to be. 3. Do what you are supposed to do.
Like I said we have some procedural things like where to take off cleats, etc etc. Those are not rules really in my book.
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Post by dytmook on Apr 10, 2016 11:11:41 GMT -6
Don't give him any responsibilities so you're not disappointed when he doesn't do them. When he tries to jump in remind him he wasn't around when the decision was made. It's tough but I've been in a similar situation.
pech is not the HC, there is nothing he can do about situation - except b!tch about a colleague on a message board.
I get that, but if you're game planning to say base your offense around power doing the off season and he shows up to first day of camp wanting to run the facemelter you can politely tell him that's not the direction the staff decided to go. We had a guy like that who showed up on game nights mostly and always was yelling 'we just need to run this route or that route even though the kids never practiced them.
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Post by mariner42 on Apr 10, 2016 13:19:58 GMT -6
pech is not the HC, there is nothing he can do about situation - except b!tch about a colleague on a message board.
I get that, but if you're game planning to say base your offense around power doing the off season and he shows up to first day of camp wanting to run the facemelter you can politely tell him that's not the direction the staff decided to go. We had a guy like that who showed up on game nights mostly and always was yelling 'we just need to run this route or that route even though the kids never practiced them. Our HC would send that dude up in the booth with a headset and not having anyone on the other end.
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Post by dytmook on Apr 10, 2016 13:31:15 GMT -6
That's what happened to a point. He was in the booth, no headset but I had the headset and I was talking to everyone else. Therefore I had to hear it in my ear constantly. He complained we didn't run power inside the 8 with 9 in the box with a poor line the last game of the year. I not so kindly told him we can't do that because it isn't likely to work. I'm not upset he won't be returning next year, nice guy, just not all in.
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Post by coachpech on Apr 10, 2016 13:31:51 GMT -6
I get that, but if you're game planning to say base your offense around power doing the off season and he shows up to first day of camp wanting to run the facemelter you can politely tell him that's not the direction the staff decided to go. We had a guy like that who showed up on game nights mostly and always was yelling 'we just need to run this route or that route even though the kids never practiced them. Our HC would send that dude up in the booth with a headset and not having anyone on the other end. I couldn't get so lucky....
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