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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 2, 2016 18:13:48 GMT -6
I am not ok doing business like that. Don't care who you are or what level you are on. Kid committed. They should have also. They said "we have 2 spots at your position and you are one of three we have offered. First two that commit we are going with." Then the kid doesn't run as fast as they thought he should then yank his offer. Don't agree with the taking the offer off the table. Commitment goes both ways is what I told the position coach. No I agree with you on principle, which is why I believe there should be instant binding on all offers that are accepted. The current system is just so nonsensical. Maybe I am just a stickler for language, but if the offer and commitment are not binding until February of the Sr. year, then why have them? The OFFER should never have been made. But in the climate that is currently recruiting, and compared to what is being discussed in this thread, at least they were honest, and judging by your timeline, it was in the summer correct? While I realize you have to be loyal to your players, don't you think it was a bit disingenuous to try and "talk him out" of going to the camp because you knew he wasn't as fast as that school believed he was? Are you ok with "doing business" like that? Its not about "getting over" on the schools, and in all honesty, as a former Div 1 coach I don't see the value in that. If your kid wouldn't fit well with them, then it would be a bad experience for all involved. I know all I am saying is that transparency and honesty are what should be displayed. My complaints aren't about kids "not getting SEC offers" its about a select few coaches/ programs and them trying to cover all their bases by stringing kids along.
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Post by CBNIndian on Apr 2, 2016 18:47:40 GMT -6
Kid wasn't a measurable kid when it came to a "40" time but made plays under the lights and I knew that. Was a measurable kid on every other test. I know when kids can run and are special. This kid was slightly under when it came to a "40". They offered off of his film from junior year along with seeing him play live twice. I knew what was best for him and I also have the reputation of being they type of coach who doesn't just tell every recruiter that I have dealt with over the years that "I have 6 sub 4.5 forty kids or kids that are 6'4" when they are really 6'1". Won't lie to any coach so I don't expect them to yank my kids around because I don't yank them around. When they come in they know what they are getting.
Like your idea of if they offer the and kid commits it is binding. How would you do that? Is that the early signing period some people want?
The climate as you said is something I hate as far as being an old school coach. I had a kid one time that people wanted him to commit on TV at one of f those all-star games. Was basically harassed to do it by the game and tv people. Told me one day "coach I want to commit in the gym on signing day in front of the people who have seen me play on Friday nights." Miss those days and those type kids!
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 2, 2016 19:11:20 GMT -6
Kid wasn't a measurable kid when it came to a "40" time but made plays under the lights and I knew that. While I get that, respectfully, that is not your decision to make. Its the program who is offering. So it sounds like when they saw him up in person, they changed their evaluation. Again, they made the first mistake (in offering the kid) but to be honest, I don't think what they did was terribly egregious. To equate it to what those complaining in this thread are talking about, they would have kept him along, and then pulled the offer and not given him an official visit in January if they had what they wanted. In your case, it sounds like as soon as they discovered that they made a "mistake" (in their opinion, not yours) they tried to do the semi-right thing and rectify it immediately. As I mentioned, if he wasn't the player they were looking for, but they unhappily kept him along it might have made for a pretty rotten experience for the kid. Again coach, respectfully weren't you doing somewhat the opposite by telling the kid not to go to the camp because you knew he was slower than what was reported/thought? I guess it is similar to early signing. What I think would be the way to make it all transparent is to just have a national clearinghouse run by the NCAA. Once an athlete is "recruited" he has to register with the clearinghouse. Any offers given to kids are also registered with clearinghouse. Once a kid accepts, the clearinghouse is notified, and the kids and school are bound to the offer/commitment. You could have access online to even see where you fit in, and what other school's commit lists look like. Its just a thought. I haven't decided if I like the idea of the kid being stuck if the coach leaves/gets fired or not. Part of me says you commit to the school, and that will force other parts of the university to be involved in the recruiting process. Part of me says no, both sides are out of the commitment if there is a change in staff. I have some other ideas that I am sure would never take hold regarding college recruiting (such as a spot being held up if a kid fails off or gets kicked off etc..) because, quite frankly as much as people love to complain about the loss of "purity" in the game, the overwhelming majority of fans just want to see wins. Absolutely agree with you here. I have said several times that National Signing Day is the worse day of the year for athletics in my opinion.
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Post by CBNIndian on Apr 2, 2016 19:23:24 GMT -6
I will stick to telling my kids when and where to go and what to do. That is part of being the coach and having experience of knowing what is best for them. If they want to listen that is up to them. Definitely don't feel I am any better than anyone who walks in my office but when you give a man your word he should stick to it. The coach and staff didn't do that. Guess times are a changin"!
Love the clearinghouse idea,
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Post by s73 on Apr 2, 2016 19:34:14 GMT -6
What about a kid who gets an offer. Commits to the school. They talk him into coming to camp(one day camp for testing and competition so they say). Runs a slightly slower 40 but other wise does real well in everything else. Next day they pull the offer by phone to the head coach. Kid had the offer and was committed before camp and I tried to talk him out of going. I knew he wasn't a 4.5 so to say but when the lights came on was the best on the field. Had other offers and ended up taking one of those. How do you handle that situation? To me, that is simply a lack of due diligence on the recruiting staff. I have no problem with them doing that, because at least they were upfront. That kind of stuff would be handled by my suggestion earlier in the thread, but I doubt that would ever get traction. Whoa, wait a minute, you say this okay by the staff but you just mentioned at the top of this page that a kid can't decommit to a school b/c being a dbag in return to a school whose recruiting process is dbaggish would be wrong? How's that? The coaches can rescind an offer b/c they were incompetent in their analysis but a kid cannot b/c he got a better offer? Not following at all.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 2, 2016 20:27:47 GMT -6
To me, that is simply a lack of due diligence on the recruiting staff. I have no problem with them doing that, because at least they were upfront. That kind of stuff would be handled by my suggestion earlier in the thread, but I doubt that would ever get traction. Whoa, wait a minute, you say this okay by the staff but you just mentioned at the top of this page that a kid can't decommit to a school b/c being a dbag in return to a school whose recruiting process is dbaggish would be wrong? How's that? The coaches can rescind an offer b/c they were incompetent in their analysis but a kid cannot b/c he got a better offer? Not following at all. YOu bring a up good point. To clarify, since we are just dealing in either hypotheticals, or situations where not all the information is out there, in my mind when I was making my opinion the time frame of the Kid decommitting was later than this situation. I was envisioning the decommitment coming late in the recruiting process because someone else came in late on the kid. If it came in June, prior to his Sr. Year, I would probably change my opinion on it being a "dbag" move. Also, my opinion was based on the tone of the coach--he basically wrote it as if the player was committing to one school, but did so only to secure a spot as he REALLY wanted to go to another (not a true commitment). I view the intent differently than the college coaches saying "hey kid, you told us you were 4.5, but seeing you up close and us timing you, you aren't , and you aren't really what we are looking for" and saying that in June. Ultimately though, I think ALL of this is ridiculous and the more I think about it, my idea seems really doable.
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Post by silkyice on Apr 2, 2016 21:10:06 GMT -6
Not exactly what this thread is about, but seeing film and seeing a kid live but then not liking his 40 time on one day in camp is just stupid. This really has nothing to do with recruiting, but more like evaluation.
I think the 40 is a valuable tool, but in no way as important as film or seeing live. We all know the difference in game speed and 40 or track speed. No reason to go into a huge discussion on that. We all know about Emmitt Smith and Jerry Rice.
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Post by silkyice on Apr 2, 2016 21:12:41 GMT -6
Coachd5085,
Love your idea on make an accepted offer binding immediately. Love it.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 2, 2016 21:28:04 GMT -6
Coachd5085, Love your idea on make an accepted offer binding immediately. Love it. I really can't poke any holes in it. Now, it might take a cycle or two to shake out some issues..which could be a problem, but other than that I don't see any reason why it wouldn't clean things up and make people more upfront and honest.
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Post by mariner42 on Apr 3, 2016 2:25:10 GMT -6
Coachd5085, Love your idea on make an accepted offer binding immediately. Love it. I'm training a girl in one of my weights classes that may end up playing Olympic soccer and I'm learning a lot about soccer recruiting as a result. She just verballed to Cal Poly as a sophomore, which I thought was pretty cool. Talking to her coach, coach is furious that they pressured her into verballing because evidently in the world of soccer recruiting the other schools back off once it gets out that you've verballed. WHAT A STRANGE WORLD TO IMAGINE. Also, we had a kid graduate two years ago, play at the local community college and get skunked in recruiting. One school told him "you're better than the guy we've got right now, but we can't take an OL who's barely 6'1" I dunno.
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Post by 33coach on Apr 9, 2016 8:54:08 GMT -6
Coachd5085, Love your idea on make an accepted offer binding immediately. Love it. I'm training a girl in one of my weights classes that may end up playing Olympic soccer and I'm learning a lot about soccer recruiting as a result. She just verballed to Cal Poly as a sophomore, which I thought was pretty cool. Talking to her coach, coach is furious that they pressured her into verballing because evidently in the world of soccer recruiting the other schools back off once it gets out that you've verballed. WHAT A STRANGE WORLD TO IMAGINE. Also, we had a kid graduate two years ago, play at the local community college and get skunked in recruiting. One school told him "you're better than the guy we've got right now, but we can't take an OL who's barely 6'1" I dunno. What? University sports programs act with integrity and don't try to poach from each other? Wow. Football could learn a lot.
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Post by buck42 on Apr 9, 2016 13:17:25 GMT -6
May I ask why they owe them everything? 1. From a player standpoint 'good players make good coaches'. Period. You won't keep that top shelf SEC job very long without the top shelf talent. 2. From the coaches standpoint that high school coach can be a major roadblock in the recruitment of a player. If you are open and honest with everybody it's better for everyone. As to situations like this one the kids were probably in that 26-30 range on the recruiting board and the coach was looking for feedback, but couldn't get any even though the school was still loving up on his recruits. That makes it hard on the kid getting recruited because he doesn't know what his exact situation is. He's being told "We want you", but doesn't have an offer and the school won't give any honest feedback. HS coach calls, and texts but doesn't get an answer for weeks. Post a tweet and get a text from the University within minutes. Again. The SEC West is filled with some serious douchebaggery on the recruiting trail. Going through a similar deal right now. Yesterday in fact. I actually flat out asked does "Jimmy have an offer or what?" The coach got mad at me for being "combative". We talked for about 30 minutes and in that conversation I was told we are gonna offer but we want to see him on campus again so he can work out for "Coach X". Coach X is on the other side of the ball and he is being recruited by another coach. So I asked "are you looking at him as an offensive or defensive player?" His response "coach I am not sure". It was frustrating to say the least
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