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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 2, 2016 7:57:42 GMT -6
If a kid is that concerned about not getting an offer... Accept one to a different school. Everyone knows none of that actually matters until signing day. Cover your bases.. then if Ole Miss comes in and offers, accept the dang thing. I mean if a kid is 27-30 on the Rebels board he's got to be 10-15 on Southern Miss's or Troy's or UAB's or Houston's board.. I mean those are all legit places (save for the mess at UAB but you get the point), that a kid should be happy to go to if given the opportunity. Then if 2 days before SD a big time school comes in and offers then go there. I'm not saying coaches should be dishonest, but the kids have other options if they don't like it and don't want to be strung along. It's not like Ole Miss is recruiting them, and not being honest, and they don't have 1 other offer in the country. As crappy as this is.. kids really do hold the power. They can control their recruiting however they want. Disagree with the idea that a kid should accept an offer, and then dump that school in favor of a higher offer. Responding to dbag recruiting practices by one group of schools by acting like a dbag to another school is not "the answer" in my opinion and really undercuts the whole "character development" spiel that football coaches collectively seem to harp on.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 2, 2016 8:17:42 GMT -6
We were caught up a few years ago in a local D-1 head coach over-recruiting, then offering the out-of-state kids and pulling the offer from our local kids, then telling the locals they can still walk on. Meanwhile, our kids had their offer, and were not pursuing other options, only to have their offer pulled and stuck in limbo with no other options. That coach got cussed out, and was told to never come back on our campus. He called the next year, my HC hung up on him. Word of that has gone around the local college circuit, and has made for great relationships with the other schools around us, including the rest of that same staff once the HC was fired. I dont see how going public on twitter like the Miss coach would help your kids. It is essentially the same petty action as the Ole Miss people. I dont see how openly whining would make anyone want to work with you. While it does seem a bit childish, publicly admonishing the Ole Miss staff/tactics is not the same action. In fact it is the polar opposite. It is being completely transparent, which is all he is asking the Mississippi coaches to do. Hey, you don't want my kids, thats fine..don't string them along. Tell them. Because they WANT to be wanted by Ole Miss, and being strong along doesn't help them out. s73 that is the factor I think you are missing in your point of view. All offers aren't the same, and in many cases the kids WANT to go to certain schools. Being loved up (but not offered) by those schools really hinders the kids recruiting process. As 60zgo points out, this isn't about the Leonard Fournettes or Shea Patterson's or the tops of the tops. Its about the much more common athlete who is (for whatever lame reason) considered a bit below that tier. I believe all 60zgo, myself, the St. Stanislaus (Southern Mississipi High School) coach etc. are saying is that AS THE ADULTS AND "PROFESSIONALS" IN THE SITUATION, the college coaches should be held to a higher standard, and should be open with the kids. "Hey Joe, I think you are a great player, and we would love to have you at Ole Miss, but we think Jason, and Jimmy fit us better, and right now they are our guys." If that were to happen, and Joe still pines away hoping Ole Miss comes calling in February, thats on him now.
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Post by 60zgo on Apr 2, 2016 9:08:53 GMT -6
The key word in this thread is "kid".... No one commenting in this thread was able to make a rational, logical, and informed decision about his future at age 16 or 17. Everyday some coach posts a thread on this site asking about what he should do with his career, his wife, his facemelter... But somehow we expect these kids who don't even understand the recruiting process to remove emotion from the equation and treat it like a business? We expect their parents who never went through the process and maybe never even went to college to make good decisions?
A kid is a solid DI recruit and he's good. Everybody knows he's good. The school he's dreamed about going to his whole life in his home state is telling him he is the man. They send him piles of mail. They call, text, and interact with him on social media daily. They send an assistant coach to his high school every week to talk him up at lunch and in the hallways. There are very few people who wouldn't get "strung along" in that situation.
I would say 90% of all my interactions with recruiters have been positive, many have been truly outstanding, and most are very honest and upfront with kids. But damn that 10% is really dirty.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 2, 2016 9:12:25 GMT -6
The key word in this thread is "kid".... No one commenting in this thread was able to make a rational, logical, and informed decision about his future at age 16 or 17. Everyday some coach posts a thread on this site asking about what he should do with his career, his wife, his facemelter... But somehow we expect these kids who don't even understand the recruiting process to remove emotion from the equation and treat it like a business? We expect their parents who never went through the process and maybe never even went to college to make good decisions? I was going to mention in my previous comment "How many posts do we see here on this sight with coaches talking about how they have multiple job interviews, and have an offer from one school, but they job they REALLY want hasn't gotten back with them yet...."
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Post by s73 on Apr 2, 2016 9:30:50 GMT -6
We were caught up a few years ago in a local D-1 head coach over-recruiting, then offering the out-of-state kids and pulling the offer from our local kids, then telling the locals they can still walk on. Meanwhile, our kids had their offer, and were not pursuing other options, only to have their offer pulled and stuck in limbo with no other options. That coach got cussed out, and was told to never come back on our campus. He called the next year, my HC hung up on him. Word of that has gone around the local college circuit, and has made for great relationships with the other schools around us, including the rest of that same staff once the HC was fired. I dont see how going public on twitter like the Miss coach would help your kids. It is essentially the same petty action as the Ole Miss people. I dont see how openly whining would make anyone want to work with you. While it does seem a bit childish, publicly admonishing the Ole Miss staff/tactics is not the same action. In fact it is the polar opposite. It is being completely transparent, which is all he is asking the Mississippi coaches to do. Hey, you don't want my kids, thats fine..don't string them along. Tell them. Because they WANT to be wanted by Ole Miss, and being strong along doesn't help them out. s73 that is the factor I think you are missing in your point of view. All offers aren't the same, and in many cases the kids WANT to go to certain schools. Being loved up (but not offered) by those schools really hinders the kids recruiting process. As 60zgo points out, this isn't about the Leonard Fournettes or Shea Patterson's or the tops of the tops. Its about the much more common athlete who is (for whatever lame reason) considered a bit below that tier. I believe all 60zgo , myself, the St. Stanislaus (Southern Mississipi High School) coach etc. are saying is that AS THE ADULTS AND "PROFESSIONALS" IN THE SITUATION, the college coaches should be held to a higher standard, and should be open with the kids. "Hey Joe, I think you are a great player, and we would love to have you at Ole Miss, but we think Jason, and Jimmy fit us better, and right now they are our guys." If that were to happen, and Joe still pines away hoping Ole Miss comes calling in February, thats on him now. I don't think I'm missing anything. THEY DID NOT OFFER HIM. They had interest, or else they would not be talking to him. But...they were not interested enough to offer. Simple as that. It's the HS coaches job to say "Hey Jimmy, this might not happen. Looks like your just off the grid for these guys". And then Jimmy can....."Gasp" accept FREE schooling from a non SEC school - Oh the Horror! Alright, I know, I'm being douchy, but I feel like you guys have some sense of entitlement here. None of any of this or twitter or anything else is going to change the way they do business. Period. This is one of the most competitive industries in the world and jobs are always on the line. These guys are seeing kids from all over the country from small schools and big and they are trying to assess their needs and nobody throwing a tantrum is going to rush that process. If a kid doesn't want to wait and hope, he should move on to someone who wants him & not take it personally. Again, I think the point YOU guys are missing is them waffling on offering speaks very loudly & honestly. Actions speak louder than words. The reality is the kids don't want to believe it. They can always recommit. Nobody is going to convince me a scholarship kid is a victim.
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Post by fantom on Apr 2, 2016 9:33:36 GMT -6
We were caught up a few years ago in a local D-1 head coach over-recruiting, then offering the out-of-state kids and pulling the offer from our local kids, then telling the locals they can still walk on. Meanwhile, our kids had their offer, and were not pursuing other options, only to have their offer pulled and stuck in limbo with no other options. That coach got cussed out, and was told to never come back on our campus. He called the next year, my HC hung up on him. Word of that has gone around the local college circuit, and has made for great relationships with the other schools around us, including the rest of that same staff once the HC was fired. I dont see how going public on twitter like the Miss coach would help your kids. It is essentially the same petty action as the Ole Miss people. I dont see how openly whining would make anyone want to work with you. While it does seem a bit childish, publicly admonishing the Ole Miss staff/tactics is not the same action. In fact it is the polar opposite. It is being completely transparent, which is all he is asking the Mississippi coaches to do. Hey, you don't want my kids, thats fine..don't string them along. Tell them. Because they WANT to be wanted by Ole Miss, and being strong along doesn't help them out. s73 that is the factor I think you are missing in your point of view. All offers aren't the same, and in many cases the kids WANT to go to certain schools. Being loved up (but not offered) by those schools really hinders the kids recruiting process. As 60zgo points out, this isn't about the Leonard Fournettes or Shea Patterson's or the tops of the tops. Its about the much more common athlete who is (for whatever lame reason) considered a bit below that tier. I believe all 60zgo , myself, the St. Stanislaus (Southern Mississipi High School) coach etc. are saying is that AS THE ADULTS AND "PROFESSIONALS" IN THE SITUATION, the college coaches should be held to a higher standard, and should be open with the kids. "Hey Joe, I think you are a great player, and we would love to have you at Ole Miss, but we think Jason, and Jimmy fit us better, and right now they are our guys." If that were to happen, and Joe still pines away hoping Ole Miss comes calling in February, thats on him now. Another angle to this is that when the college strings a kid along guess who has to do damage control with the parents. Me. It might be unreasonable and unfair but the parents can't talk to the college coaches. They can talk to the HS coach every day so, in the minds of some parents we're the one to blame.
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Post by 60zgo on Apr 2, 2016 9:38:56 GMT -6
While it does seem a bit childish, publicly admonishing the Ole Miss staff/tactics is not the same action. In fact it is the polar opposite. It is being completely transparent, which is all he is asking the Mississippi coaches to do. Hey, you don't want my kids, thats fine..don't string them along. Tell them. Because they WANT to be wanted by Ole Miss, and being strong along doesn't help them out. s73 that is the factor I think you are missing in your point of view. All offers aren't the same, and in many cases the kids WANT to go to certain schools. Being loved up (but not offered) by those schools really hinders the kids recruiting process. As 60zgo points out, this isn't about the Leonard Fournettes or Shea Patterson's or the tops of the tops. Its about the much more common athlete who is (for whatever lame reason) considered a bit below that tier. I believe all 60zgo , myself, the St. Stanislaus (Southern Mississipi High School) coach etc. are saying is that AS THE ADULTS AND "PROFESSIONALS" IN THE SITUATION, the college coaches should be held to a higher standard, and should be open with the kids. "Hey Joe, I think you are a great player, and we would love to have you at Ole Miss, but we think Jason, and Jimmy fit us better, and right now they are our guys." If that were to happen, and Joe still pines away hoping Ole Miss comes calling in February, thats on him now. I don't think I'm missing anything. THEY DID NOT OFFER HIM. They had interest, or else they would not be talking to him. But...they were not interested enough to offer. Simple as that. It's the HS coaches job to say "Hey Jimmy, this might not happen. Looks like your just off the grid for these guys". And then Jimmy can....."Gasp" accept FREE schooling from a non SEC school - Oh the Horror! Alright, I know, I'm being douchy, but I feel like you guys have some sense of entitlement here. None of any of this or twitter or anything else is going to change the way they do business. Period. This is one of the most competitive industries in the world and jobs are always on the line. These guys are seeing kids from all over the country from small schools and big and they are trying to assess their needs and nobody throwing a tantrum is going to rush that process. If a kid doesn't want to wait and hope, he should move on to someone who wants him & not take it personally. Again, I think the point YOU guys are missing is them waffling on offering speaks very loudly & honestly. Actions speak louder than words. The reality is the kids don't want to believe it. They can always recommit. Nobody is going to convince me a scholarship kid is a victim. I'm going to assume you haven't seen this happen to any of your kids. It's a little different when you have to interact with some of these programs on a continuing basis.
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Post by s73 on Apr 2, 2016 9:41:55 GMT -6
While it does seem a bit childish, publicly admonishing the Ole Miss staff/tactics is not the same action. In fact it is the polar opposite. It is being completely transparent, which is all he is asking the Mississippi coaches to do. Hey, you don't want my kids, thats fine..don't string them along. Tell them. Because they WANT to be wanted by Ole Miss, and being strong along doesn't help them out. s73 that is the factor I think you are missing in your point of view. All offers aren't the same, and in many cases the kids WANT to go to certain schools. Being loved up (but not offered) by those schools really hinders the kids recruiting process. As 60zgo points out, this isn't about the Leonard Fournettes or Shea Patterson's or the tops of the tops. Its about the much more common athlete who is (for whatever lame reason) considered a bit below that tier. I believe all 60zgo , myself, the St. Stanislaus (Southern Mississipi High School) coach etc. are saying is that AS THE ADULTS AND "PROFESSIONALS" IN THE SITUATION, the college coaches should be held to a higher standard, and should be open with the kids. "Hey Joe, I think you are a great player, and we would love to have you at Ole Miss, but we think Jason, and Jimmy fit us better, and right now they are our guys." If that were to happen, and Joe still pines away hoping Ole Miss comes calling in February, thats on him now. Another angle to this is that when the college strings a kid along guess who has to do damage control with the parents. Me. It might be unreasonable and unfair but the parents can't talk to the college coaches. They can talk to the HS coach every day so, in the minds of some parents we're the one to blame. That is not realistic at all. No other way to say it. HS Coach Blank, I blame you for Ole Miss seeming interested & then not offering. Baloney. If you feel like you have to do damage control b/c a D1 offer didn't pan out (AGAIN NOBODY SEEMS TO BE ACKNOWLEDGING HOW HARD THESE ARE TO COME BY) that's your own perception.
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Post by s73 on Apr 2, 2016 9:43:28 GMT -6
I don't think I'm missing anything. THEY DID NOT OFFER HIM. They had interest, or else they would not be talking to him. But...they were not interested enough to offer. Simple as that. It's the HS coaches job to say "Hey Jimmy, this might not happen. Looks like your just off the grid for these guys". And then Jimmy can....."Gasp" accept FREE schooling from a non SEC school - Oh the Horror! Alright, I know, I'm being douchy, but I feel like you guys have some sense of entitlement here. None of any of this or twitter or anything else is going to change the way they do business. Period. This is one of the most competitive industries in the world and jobs are always on the line. These guys are seeing kids from all over the country from small schools and big and they are trying to assess their needs and nobody throwing a tantrum is going to rush that process. If a kid doesn't want to wait and hope, he should move on to someone who wants him & not take it personally. Again, I think the point YOU guys are missing is them waffling on offering speaks very loudly & honestly. Actions speak louder than words. The reality is the kids don't want to believe it. They can always recommit. Nobody is going to convince me a scholarship kid is a victim. I'm going to assume you haven't seen this happen to any of your kids. It's a little different when you have to interact with some of these programs on a continuing basis. You're right. Would love to have the problem you have w/ the D bag SEC recruiting process:)
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Post by fantom on Apr 2, 2016 9:54:04 GMT -6
Another angle to this is that when the college strings a kid along guess who has to do damage control with the parents. Me. It might be unreasonable and unfair but the parents can't talk to the college coaches. They can talk to the HS coach every day so, in the minds of some parents we're the one to blame. That is not realistic at all. No other way to say it. HS Coach Blank, I blame you for Ole Miss seeming interested & then not offering. Baloney. If you feel like you have to do damage control b/c a D1 offer didn't pan out (AGAIN NOBODY SEEMS TO BE ACKNOWLEDGING HOW HARD THESE ARE TO COME BY) that's your own perception. In some areas D.1 scholarships are uncommon. In some there are players who sign at D.1 schools every year. That distorts the parents' perception of the reality of recruiting. If a neighboring school has kids sign with ACC schools, how come Junior doesn't have ACC offers? If Junior is getting interest from ACC schools but not an offer it must be because the HS coach isn't "selling" the kid right. Sure it's unreasonable but around here kids transfer and coaches get fired because of those perceptions.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 2, 2016 10:02:49 GMT -6
I don't think I'm missing anything. THEY DID NOT OFFER HIM. They had interest, or else they would not be talking to him. But...they were not interested enough to offer. Simple as that. Simple as that, to YOU. The grown man with no feelings in the situation who isn't being told frequently that he is loved and wanted by the school that you want to go to. Not the 18 year old with stars in his eyes. Why? Why is it the HS coach's job to do what the college coach won't do? And quite honestly, YES it is a huge disappointment and drop off from playing at USM compared to playing at Ole Miss, particularly when you are told the whole time how much Mississippi loves you. It is what it is, but I don't think that negates the responsibility of the college staff to just be upfront does it? And you should know well enough that the HS coach giving sound logical counsel as you suggest is relatively meaningless when later that night, the college guy loves up on the player. And it isn't "free". They are just having expenses paid for by the university so that they can do the "job" the University demands from them. But that is a different discussion. I don't believe expecting a college coach to be upfront and honest is being entitled. And, I have to disagree a bit, because publicly holding them accountable and focusing a spotlight on their shadiness might indeed slow down that behavior. I understand what you are saying, but again ADULTS who aren't being courted absolutely can understand the actions speaking louder than words. However, when you combine: 1) Kid is 17/18 2) Kid WANTS to go to Ole Miss 3) there is a big difference (especially socially) in being recruited & offered by Ole Miss, and USM or Louisiana Tech and LSU, or Auburn or UAB etc. 4) the school the kid wants to go to is telling him he is wanted Is asking the college recruiters to be upfront and honest with the kids too much? s73 I think it is important to recognize that not all situations are the same, and you may not have experienced any of this type of thing with your own athletes.
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Post by s73 on Apr 2, 2016 10:05:21 GMT -6
That is not realistic at all. No other way to say it. HS Coach Blank, I blame you for Ole Miss seeming interested & then not offering. Baloney. If you feel like you have to do damage control b/c a D1 offer didn't pan out (AGAIN NOBODY SEEMS TO BE ACKNOWLEDGING HOW HARD THESE ARE TO COME BY) that's your own perception. In some areas D.1 scholarships are uncommon. In some there are players who sign at D.1 schools every year. That distorts the parents' perception of the reality of recruiting. If a neighboring school has kids sign with ACC schools, how come Junior doesn't have ACC offers? If Junior is getting interest from ACC schools but not an offer it must be because the HS coach isn't "selling" the kid right. Sure it's unreasonable but around here kids transfer and coaches get fired because of those perceptions. Fantom, That is exactly my point. The PERCEPTION of scholarship offers has been GREATLY distorted. And IMO, now even coaches like the St. Stanislaus coach is starting to see it more like a parent & even some of the coaches on this board are starting to drink the cool-aid IMO. But distorted perception is not reality. Speaking of missing angles, nobody mentioned the fact that the recruiter doesn't get the final say the HC does. Maybe some of these guys are "stringing some body along" b/c they want him but can't get the HC to sign off on it yet. Anybody consider that? Tons of variables in the process & sounding off like a jack a$$ on twitter shouldn't be one of them.
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Post by s73 on Apr 2, 2016 10:06:45 GMT -6
I don't think I'm missing anything. THEY DID NOT OFFER HIM. They had interest, or else they would not be talking to him. But...they were not interested enough to offer. Simple as that. Simple as that, to YOU. The grown man with no feelings in the situation who isn't being told frequently that he is loved and wanted by the school that you want to go to. Not the 18 year old with stars in his eyes. Why? Why is it the HS coach's job to do what the college coach won't do? And quite honestly, YES it is a huge disappointment and drop off from playing at USM compared to playing at Ole Miss, particularly when you are told the whole time how much Mississippi loves you. It is what it is, but I don't think that negates the responsibility of the college staff to just be upfront does it? And you should know well enough that the HS coach giving sound logical counsel as you suggest is relatively meaningless when later that night, the college guy loves up on the player. And it isn't "free". They are just having expenses paid for by the university so that they can do the "job" the University demands from them. But that is a different discussion. I don't believe expecting a college coach to be upfront and honest is being entitled. And, I have to disagree a bit, because publicly holding them accountable and focusing a spotlight on their shadiness might indeed slow down that behavior. I understand what you are saying, but again ADULTS who aren't being courted absolutely can understand the actions speaking louder than words. However, when you combine: 1) Kid is 17/18 2) Kid WANTS to go to Ole Miss 3) there is a big difference (especially socially) in being recruited & offered by Ole Miss, and USM or Louisiana Tech and LSU, or Auburn or UAB etc. 4) the school the kid wants to go to is telling him he is wanted Is asking the college recruiters to be upfront and honest with the kids too much? .....sigh...... I'm moving on, you are not in reality my friend. Like many of your posts but can't get behind this one. Sorry.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 2, 2016 10:09:08 GMT -6
s73 I don't see what is so unrealistic about expecting college coaches to not be shady, and not lead on 17 year olds. You mention reality...but as some have mentioned, this is VERY MUCH reality. Just not your particular reality. It is very common in my area (not particularly great for Louisiana High School Football) for each of the "big schools (5 or so) to have atleast 2 Div 1 signees each year, with a top 20 program talent every couple of years. In New Orleans, you are talking about 4-5 kids a year at some schools, with 1 or 2 top 20 program talents each year. As 60zgo mentioned, it can grow old very fast watching your kids get strung along, and as fantom mentioned, it easily becomes "your fault" because you are the one people have access to. All any of us here are saying (and all the St. Staniuslaus coach was saying on twitter) was "HEY..DON'T STRING THE KIDS ALONG" .
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Post by 60zgo on Apr 2, 2016 10:36:13 GMT -6
Simple as that, to YOU. The grown man with no feelings in the situation who isn't being told frequently that he is loved and wanted by the school that you want to go to. Not the 18 year old with stars in his eyes. Why? Why is it the HS coach's job to do what the college coach won't do? And quite honestly, YES it is a huge disappointment and drop off from playing at USM compared to playing at Ole Miss, particularly when you are told the whole time how much Mississippi loves you. It is what it is, but I don't think that negates the responsibility of the college staff to just be upfront does it? And you should know well enough that the HS coach giving sound logical counsel as you suggest is relatively meaningless when later that night, the college guy loves up on the player. And it isn't "free". They are just having expenses paid for by the university so that they can do the "job" the University demands from them. But that is a different discussion. I don't believe expecting a college coach to be upfront and honest is being entitled. And, I have to disagree a bit, because publicly holding them accountable and focusing a spotlight on their shadiness might indeed slow down that behavior. I understand what you are saying, but again ADULTS who aren't being courted absolutely can understand the actions speaking louder than words. However, when you combine: 1) Kid is 17/18 2) Kid WANTS to go to Ole Miss 3) there is a big difference (especially socially) in being recruited & offered by Ole Miss, and USM or Louisiana Tech and LSU, or Auburn or UAB etc. 4) the school the kid wants to go to is telling him he is wanted Is asking the college recruiters to be upfront and honest with the kids too much? .....sigh...... I'm moving on, you are not in reality my friend. Like many of your posts but can't get behind this one. Sorry. Yes. Everyone's reality is different, but having a ton of college talent in this area(South Louisiana/Southern Mississippi) is very common. Here's a list just from the New Orleans Metro area: www.nola.com/recruiting/index.ssf/2016/02/see_where_every_new_orleans-ar.htmlIt's a highly contested recruiting battleground for sure, and I think most high school coaches around here appreciate the pressure college coaches are under. But our programs and our kids are the top priority and I don't think it's too much to ask from a collegiate level coach to know where my kid is at on the recruiting board. It's especially frustrating when say Michigan, Texas, Missouri, Northwesten, or California fly in and tell you exactly where a kid stands and what their position needs are, but the Big University in your state or an hour or two down the road is being shifty with you and your kid.
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Post by s73 on Apr 2, 2016 11:14:15 GMT -6
s73 I don't see what is so unrealistic about expecting college coaches to not be shady, and not lead on 17 year olds. You mention reality...but as some have mentioned, this is VERY MUCH reality. Just not your particular reality. It is very common in my area (not particularly great for Louisiana High School Football) for each of the "big schools (5 or so) to have atleast 2 Div 1 signees each year, with a top 20 program talent every couple of years. In New Orleans, you are talking about 4-5 kids a year at some schools, with 1 or 2 top 20 program talents each year. As 60zgo mentioned, it can grow old very fast watching your kids get strung along, and as fantom mentioned, it easily becomes "your fault" because you are the one people have access to. All any of us here are saying (and all the St. Staniuslaus coach was saying on twitter) was "HEY..DON'T STRING THE KIDS ALONG" . Shady is YOUR perspective. That's what's unrealistic. You are expecting them to see it from your perspective. Like you said in your earlier post, kids are STARSTRUCK. NOT a D1 coaches fault. Yeah, it can get old getting strung along, but....it's always going to happen until they know for sure. Not sure what else you want me to say. I'm not going to vilify these guys for the way they do their jobs when I have never been in their shoes. You are making assumptions not knowing all the facts and you're giving the twitter boy the market on the truth. On a side note, does anybody else suspect 60zgo is the Stanislau coach
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Post by jlenwood on Apr 2, 2016 11:17:53 GMT -6
I'm just kinda tired of the whole "production" of the kids signing with schools and all the hoopla that surrounds the HS kids and recruiting in general. When you see an entire family setting behind some kid and he makes this declaration of where he is going, and everyone responds as if they just witnessed Einstein explain one of his theories!
It is no wonder so many of these athletes, (notice I did not say scholar athlete) go onto to play college ball and get into some sort of trouble. Hell, we put them up their on TV and behave as if they are the second coming. And yes, coaches play a big part in this extravaganza.
Case in point, look up anything to do with Maty Mauk from when he was in high school to when he finally got tossed a Missouri. What a turd.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 2, 2016 11:30:11 GMT -6
s73 I don't see what is so unrealistic about expecting college coaches to not be shady, and not lead on 17 year olds. You mention reality...but as some have mentioned, this is VERY MUCH reality. Just not your particular reality. It is very common in my area (not particularly great for Louisiana High School Football) for each of the "big schools (5 or so) to have atleast 2 Div 1 signees each year, with a top 20 program talent every couple of years. In New Orleans, you are talking about 4-5 kids a year at some schools, with 1 or 2 top 20 program talents each year. As 60zgo mentioned, it can grow old very fast watching your kids get strung along, and as fantom mentioned, it easily becomes "your fault" because you are the one people have access to. All any of us here are saying (and all the St. Staniuslaus coach was saying on twitter) was "HEY..DON'T STRING THE KIDS ALONG" . Shady is YOUR perspective. That's what's unrealistic. You are expecting them to see it from your perspective. Like you said in your earlier post, kids are STARSTRUCK. NOT a D1 coaches fault. Yeah, it can get old getting strung along, but....it's always going to happen until they know for sure. Not sure what else you want me to say. I'm not going to vilify these guys for the way they do their jobs when I have never been in their shoes. You are making assumptions not knowing all the facts and you're giving the twitter boy the market on the truth. On a side note, does anybody else suspect 60zgo is the Stanislau coach Will have to agree to disagree. Your stating that "shady is my perspective, look at it from their perspective" is similar to saying that corrupt politicians aren't corrupt--you just have to see it from their side.
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Post by 60zgo on Apr 2, 2016 12:11:07 GMT -6
s73 I don't see what is so unrealistic about expecting college coaches to not be shady, and not lead on 17 year olds. You mention reality...but as some have mentioned, this is VERY MUCH reality. Just not your particular reality. It is very common in my area (not particularly great for Louisiana High School Football) for each of the "big schools (5 or so) to have atleast 2 Div 1 signees each year, with a top 20 program talent every couple of years. In New Orleans, you are talking about 4-5 kids a year at some schools, with 1 or 2 top 20 program talents each year. As 60zgo mentioned, it can grow old very fast watching your kids get strung along, and as fantom mentioned, it easily becomes "your fault" because you are the one people have access to. All any of us here are saying (and all the St. Staniuslaus coach was saying on twitter) was "HEY..DON'T STRING THE KIDS ALONG" . Shady is YOUR perspective. That's what's unrealistic. You are expecting them to see it from your perspective. Like you said in your earlier post, kids are STARSTRUCK. NOT a D1 coaches fault. Yeah, it can get old getting strung along, but....it's always going to happen until they know for sure. Not sure what else you want me to say. I'm not going to vilify these guys for the way they do their jobs when I have never been in their shoes. You are making assumptions not knowing all the facts and you're giving the twitter boy the market on the truth. On a side note, does anybody else suspect 60zgo is the Stanislau coach Not me. He's got way better hair, and wears a lot more bracelets than I do. I understand his frustrations and I appreciate his view point though.
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Post by fantom on Apr 2, 2016 12:40:09 GMT -6
I'm just kinda tired of the whole "production" of the kids signing with schools and all the hoopla that surrounds the HS kids and recruiting in general. When you see an entire family setting behind some kid and he makes this declaration of where he is going, and everyone responds as if they just witnessed Einstein explain one of his theories! It is no wonder so many of these athletes, (notice I did not say scholar athlete) go onto to play college ball and get into some sort of trouble. Hell, we put them up their on TV and behave as if they are the second coming. And yes, coaches play a big part in this extravaganza. Case in point, look up anything to do with Maty Mauk from when he was in high school to when he finally got tossed a Missouri. What a turd. The recruiting stuff is out of hand. I hate the "commitment" ceremonies-as opposed to actually signing a LOI- as much as the next guy, especially if it involves a game of "Whack-a-mole" with college hats. Let's keep a little perspective, though. On this board coaches often complain that parents only think about their kid while we have to worry about the whole team. That's true. It works the other way too, though. To us, when a kid signs accepts a scholarship it may just be another day at the office. For that family it's a bug deal, a potentially life changing event. If they want to celebrate it, why not? Lastly, about that Mauk character: It's easy to get cynical when we read about the things that the bad kids do. We don't read about the good kids. I'm not blaming the media. "Joe Smith Goes to Class, Graduates" isn't news. Reading about the kids who screw up makes it easy to believe that the majority of scholarship athletes are jerk-offs and they aren't. The whole Missouri team didn't get arrested.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2016 15:30:20 GMT -6
I'll try and be vague, but not vague.... Every college over recruits. You have to, and I think everyone gets that. Certain colleges will be very up front in recruiting and they will tell you and the kid "Hey, we love you and we want you to come to BIG TIME UNIVERSITY, but we just don't have room in this class. You're number 26 or 27 and if something opens up on signing day we have scholarship for you. If we don't have anything on signing day you can walk-on and we will scholarship you in the spring. We want you but our needs are in other areas." Other places recruit the kid hard and string him along and make him think he's in but never give him a straight answer. Sometimes the kid gets caught in the shuffle and bypasses other offers waiting on BIG TIME UNIVERSITY, because they keep telling him how much they love him. Those same places will ignore the high school coach's phone calls or texts when they try and follow up and see where the kid stands. Strangely they respond to tweets though. The guys who won't be straight up with you are the worst. One of the best was the guy who recruited here for Virginia Tech, Jim Caavanaugh. He was brutally honest. Used to pi$$ some guys off but you always knew exactly where you stood. That VT staff under Beamer was full of class acts. It's sad to see them changing there, but hopefully they'll continue to do things with the same level of integrity under the new regime. As HS coaches, we owe it to these kids to stay on top of practices like this and tell kids (and their parents) how it is. If a recruiter is being evasive and not returning calls or emails... it should send up a big red flag. Now, whether the kid and parents get that or cling to hope in the face of such evidence to the contrary is another issue. I'm willing to bet we've all had the 5'4" 120lb sophomore WR with the secret offer on the table from Oregon after he went to a camp...
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Post by jlenwood on Apr 2, 2016 15:41:35 GMT -6
I'm just kinda tired of the whole "production" of the kids signing with schools and all the hoopla that surrounds the HS kids and recruiting in general. When you see an entire family setting behind some kid and he makes this declaration of where he is going, and everyone responds as if they just witnessed Einstein explain one of his theories! It is no wonder so many of these athletes, (notice I did not say scholar athlete) go onto to play college ball and get into some sort of trouble. Hell, we put them up their on TV and behave as if they are the second coming. And yes, coaches play a big part in this extravaganza. Case in point, look up anything to do with Maty Mauk from when he was in high school to when he finally got tossed a Missouri. What a turd. The recruiting stuff is out of hand. I hate the "commitment" ceremonies-as opposed to actually signing a LOI- as much as the next guy, especially if it involves a game of "Whack-a-mole" with college hats. ^^^^ This is what I was talking about.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 2, 2016 15:57:05 GMT -6
Now, whether the kid and parents get that or cling to hope in the face of such evidence to the contrary is another issue. I'm willing to bet we've all had the 5'4" 120lb sophomore WR with the secret offer on the table from Oregon after he went to a camp... Yes, but that is not what is being described here.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2016 16:15:27 GMT -6
Now, whether the kid and parents get that or cling to hope in the face of such evidence to the contrary is another issue. I'm willing to bet we've all had the 5'4" 120lb sophomore WR with the secret offer on the table from Oregon after he went to a camp... Yes, but that is not what is being described here. I know. Just throwing that in there as an extreme case of a kid who heard what he wanted to hear from a coach, even when the evidence points to the opposite. The specific stuff being described here with kids who are over-recruited by major powers and strung along is shady. I mentioned that because sometimes kids won't care what their HS coach says because they have that dream and they're going to cling to it.
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Post by silkyice on Apr 2, 2016 17:04:09 GMT -6
Yes, but that is not what is being described here. I know. Just throwing that in there as an extreme case of a kid who heard what he wanted to hear from a coach, even when the evidence points to the opposite. The specific stuff being described here with kids who are over-recruited by major powers and strung along is shady. I mentioned that because sometimes kids won't care what their HS coach says because they have that dream and they're going to cling to it. Hope this doesn't derail the thread, but can you say baseball?
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 2, 2016 17:12:35 GMT -6
I know. Just throwing that in there as an extreme case of a kid who heard what he wanted to hear from a coach, even when the evidence points to the opposite. The specific stuff being described here with kids who are over-recruited by major powers and strung along is shady. I mentioned that because sometimes kids won't care what their HS coach says because they have that dream and they're going to cling to it. Hope this doesn't derail the thread, but can you say baseball? I am not familiar with college baseball recruiting. I know the "baseball scholarship" card is often misrepresented by HIGH SCHOOL and FALL BALL coaches. But do college baseball coaches do the same, even though they do not give full equivalencies?
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Post by silkyice on Apr 2, 2016 17:32:42 GMT -6
Hope this doesn't derail the thread, but can you say baseball? I am not familiar with college baseball recruiting. I know the "baseball scholarship" card is often misrepresented by HIGH SCHOOL and FALL BALL coaches. But do college baseball coaches do the same, even though they do not give full equivalencies? That was in reference to: "I mentioned that because sometimes kids won't care what their HS coach says because they have that dream and they're going to cling to it." Literally 90% of travel ball, middle school, and high school baseball players around here think they are playing major college baseball.
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Post by CBNIndian on Apr 2, 2016 17:34:49 GMT -6
What about a kid who gets an offer. Commits to the school. They talk him into coming to camp(one day camp for testing and competition so they say). Runs a slightly slower 40 but other wise does real well in everything else. Next day they pull the offer by phone to the head coach. Kid had the offer and was committed before camp and I tried to talk him out of going. I knew he wasn't a 4.5 so to say but when the lights came on was the best on the field. Had other offers and ended up taking one of those. How do you handle that situation?
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 2, 2016 17:44:10 GMT -6
What about a kid who gets an offer. Commits to the school. They talk him into coming to camp(one day camp for testing and competition so they say). Runs a slightly slower 40 but other wise does real well in everything else. Next day they pull the offer by phone to the head coach. Kid had the offer and was committed before camp and I tried to talk him out of going. I knew he wasn't a 4.5 so to say but when the lights came on was the best on the field. Had other offers and ended up taking one of those. How do you handle that situation? To me, that is simply a lack of due diligence on the recruiting staff. I have no problem with them doing that, because at least they were upfront. That kind of stuff would be handled by my suggestion earlier in the thread, but I doubt that would ever get traction.
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Post by CBNIndian on Apr 2, 2016 18:03:00 GMT -6
I am not ok doing business like that. Don't care who you are or what level you are on. Kid committed. They should have also. They said "we have 2 spots at your position and you are one of three we have offered. First two that commit we are going with." Then the kid doesn't run as fast as they thought he should then yank his offer. Don't agree with the taking the offer off the table. Commitment goes both ways is what I told the position coach.
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