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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2016 10:49:35 GMT -6
Our state is due to overhaul the classifications and districts in 2016.
Right now, we have a handful of private schools who play in a Privates Only division, which is divided into 2 classes, but may Privates play with the Public Schools after an enrollment multiplier. That was recently changed and the new rule will apparently force just about all of them into the Private Division.
For the public schools, we have the 32 biggest schools all playing each other in 4 districts, all of whom have guaranteed playoff spots (travel time for some of them is 2-3 hours for road games and 5-6 for 1st round playoff games--it cost some schools $10K+ to go to the first round and get beat because they needed to get hotels). The rest of the schools are divided evenly into 5 classes based on enrollment, with 8 districts per class and the top 4 in each district getting playoff spots. Non-conference games don't count.
This was an improvement over our last system, which had 3 public classifications that got split into 6 for the playoffs, which . You had schools of nearly 3000 playing schools with barely 1000 kids in the regular season. The top 2 seeds were guaranteed spots, but then the the state used a very complex BCS-style computer ranking system to determine who else made it and what the seeding looked like. This was done to cut down on travel time, but everyone hated it. The state messed up the computer rankings two years in a row, which really messed with the schools involved.
So now, the latest attempts to improve things has some ideas that seem weird to me. Some proposals they're looking at are:
1. Separating out Rural and City/Suburban schools (basing playoff seeding/classification on population density).
2. Separating schools based on booster club revenue.
3. Separating schools based on median community income.
4. Separating schools based on the size and pay of the coaching staffs.
5. Eliminating districts altogether and replacing them with huge "regions" that teams can draw from, which means a return to points systems.
6. Having different playoff/tournament systems for schools based on their records in the regular season.
7. Letting schools work together to create their own conferences/districts on their own--these teams may or may not be reclassified in the playoffs.
8. Using a computer to set districts based on shortest distance (popular with a lot of sports like volleyball, track, etc.).
9. Creating districts based on geographical boundaries by counties and cities.
10. Basing districts off "competitiveness," which apparently means some would move up or down based on record.
Does any other state do these things already? If so, what's the experience been?
Our last one was a huge cluster for football, but in the other sports (which play in a 3 class system, anyway) it wasn't as big a deal.
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Post by John Knight on Mar 9, 2016 10:58:01 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2016 11:16:35 GMT -6
Thanks, John Knight. That is... confusing, but I hope it's worked out well for you up there. I actually like some of these proposals. The rural/urban split would be good for the impoverished county schools in my area, but not so much for inner city schools competing against well off suburban programs. I love the idea of the state just classifying the schools and letting them set up their own conferences, but that could also create a new set of problems on its own. In some ways, I like the thought of bringing community income, booster club revenue, and coaching staff size/pay into account, but then that would also work against the schools who really support athletics and push schools to cut stipends and fundraising so they can play in a softer bracket. |
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Post by John Knight on Mar 9, 2016 11:29:10 GMT -6
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Post by John Knight on Mar 9, 2016 11:50:22 GMT -6
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Post by carookie on Mar 9, 2016 15:04:53 GMT -6
I was in Arizona a few years back, and let me tell you the way they run things makes the CIF look like geniuses.
My last year there, they took all scheduling out of the hands of schools, it was based on travel expenses (allowing to play one size up or down). There was no real leagues but random size and division classifications (nobody won league because there was no thing). Playoff selection was based off of computer rankings for leagues divided by size. So basically option number 5 of yours, it sucked, coaches and ADs hated it; but the governing board was awful. They've tweaked it some since, but now the 17 largest schools play in the largest classification, with the top 16 making the playoffs.
I am back in California now (CIF SS) the plan for next year is something like your #6; where there will be leagues but they have nothing to do with where you go to playoffs. Instead playoffs will be determined by your computer score that year (if you make it) and a three year agregate (where you go). This is basically a way to appease large population schools that can't compete with the national powerhouses in their league. So even though two schools have the same population and are in the same area we'll send the mediocre school to a weaker playoff bracket because they can't hang based on the logically accepted variables of population and location. Conversely, a smaller school who had a really good class just graduate will be forced to play up, because a couple years ago they had some good players.
Heaven forbid we just divide by location and population. But then again their are a lot of bureaucrats who run state organizations who rely on red tape and constantly changing things to justify their professional existence.
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Post by fantom on Mar 9, 2016 16:59:46 GMT -6
The trouble with trying to be fair to everybody is that it's impossible. When you stretch the rules to be "Fair" to one group you screw another group over.
Here in Virginia it's pretty simple. We're divided into six classifications strictly by enrollment. Schools used to be able to petition to play in a higher classification but no longer can. Each classification is divided into regions each of which contains several districts. Districts, which can contain schools from different classifications, are established by the state but mostly they assign schools to districts that they want to be in. Schedules are not set by the state. District schedules are set by the district and each school sets its own non-district schedule. For the playoffs there's a power point system with big schools getting more points for beating a smaller district opponent rather than penalizing teams for playing teams that they had no choice but to play.
Are there problems? Sure. Most of the bigger schools are in the eastern part of the state. There are only a few big schools in the west and they're isolated. That means that they're put in a district with much smaller schools.
I think that this is as fair as you can make it. Are there big schools whose ethnic makeup make it hard to win? Sure. Are there economic discrepancies?Yep. So what? Everybody's playing under the same rules. Some schools are in situations that make it tough to win. That's life. To me it's no different than a kid who tries hard but has no instincts or ability. That's just the way it is.
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Post by spos21ram on Mar 9, 2016 19:52:44 GMT -6
Our state is too small for all that {censored}
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Post by macdiiddy on Mar 9, 2016 20:34:16 GMT -6
In Indiana, there are 6 Classifications, The largest class has 32 teams, second largest has 36 teams. The next 4 have 64 teams.
Indiana is one of the lone states where everyone is entered into the playoffs.
We do have a "success factor", if you accumulate enough points in 2 years, you get bumped up a classification. This is mainly meant for private schools that have traditionally had success in the tournament.
I believe it works off of 6 points. So combining the points in a 2 year block. 4 points for state, 3 for semi, 2 for regional s, 1 for sectionals. So if you win State one year then win a regional the next, you bump up one class.
I think it is a good system. But it all needs to stop at some point, yes there are disparities, but at some point you are goign to have 20 classes and divide the state into 4 regions and have 80 state champions.
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Post by jaydub66 on Mar 10, 2016 10:18:30 GMT -6
New Jersey is divided into public and nonpublic (catholic schools)
They just combined group 1 and group 2 nonpublic playoffs (the two smallest groups of schools) and group 3 and group 4 play only other group 3 and 4 schools. They play all over the state in the play offs.
The Public schools are divided into 5 groups, 5 being the biggest and 1 being the smallest. They basically divide it into north and south jersey groups for championships. So you have two or three group (X) schools as state champs because the north jersey schools in Newark and Jersey City don't play south jersey schools in Atlantic, Glouster, and Camden counties.
We end up with like 28 champs or something. It's wacky.
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Post by coachwoodall on Mar 10, 2016 10:48:13 GMT -6
SC is going from 4 to 5. Most private schools don't compete in the public league.
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Post by wingtol on Mar 10, 2016 19:30:58 GMT -6
Good Lord do some people make it way to difficult! Sounds like they just want to give everyone a trophy and say good season!
We are going from four classes to six here in PA this up coming season. I was for it before I was against it LOL It will still be set up the same way with about 100 schools in each class, 4 classes had 150 or so, the state has 12 districts that conduct their own playoffs for a district championship. You win districts then you move into the inner-district playoffs for the state title. Technically if you make the District playoffs you are in the state playoffs. For us now and in the past we have had two regions in our district, top 4 from each make district playoffs and they cross seed the 8 teams. Boom. Easy.
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Post by macdiiddy on Mar 11, 2016 0:01:43 GMT -6
New Jersey is divided into public and nonpublic (catholic schools) They just combined group 1 and group 2 nonpublic playoffs (the two smallest groups of schools) and group 3 and group 4 play only other group 3 and 4 schools. They play all over the state in the play offs. The Public schools are divided into 5 groups, 5 being the biggest and 1 being the smallest. They basically divide it into north and south jersey groups for championships. So you have two or three group (X) schools as state champs because the north jersey schools in Newark and Jersey City don't play south jersey schools in Atlantic, Glouster, and Camden counties. We end up with like 28 champs or something. It's wacky. Why does North Jersey and South Jersey not play each other? Geographically speaking its a small state |
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Post by raymul313 on Mar 11, 2016 3:06:02 GMT -6
New Jersey is divided into public and nonpublic (catholic schools) They just combined group 1 and group 2 nonpublic playoffs (the two smallest groups of schools) and group 3 and group 4 play only other group 3 and 4 schools. They play all over the state in the play offs. The Public schools are divided into 5 groups, 5 being the biggest and 1 being the smallest. They basically divide it into north and south jersey groups for championships. So you have two or three group (X) schools as state champs because the north jersey schools in Newark and Jersey City don't play south jersey schools in Atlantic, Glouster, and Camden counties. We end up with like 28 champs or something. It's wacky. Why does North Jersey and South Jersey not play each other? Geographically speaking its a small state It's small in size but who the hell wants to be on I-95 for longer than they have to? It takes about 4-5 hours to get from North NJ to South NJ. |
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Post by raymul313 on Mar 11, 2016 5:10:12 GMT -6
I personally am partial to:
8. Using a computer to set districts based on shortest distance (popular with a lot of sports like volleyball, track, etc.)
as it not only benefits football but also other sports nearby. Come playoff time though I feel if you'd have to travel you'd have to suck it up and travel and because the transport budget wasn't being drained by constant really long road trips that the school would be able to afford it. But I am a lay coach so idk how any of the budgeting works lol
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Post by fantom on Mar 11, 2016 11:16:14 GMT -6
Why does North Jersey and South Jersey not play each other? Geographically speaking its a small state It's small in size but who the hell wants to be on I-95 for longer than they have to? It takes about 4-5 hours to get from North NJ to South NJ. In some places they regularly make 4-5 hour trips during the regular season. Plus it's not like they have to switch off between Paramus and Cape May. They can find a centralized location like pretty much every other state. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2016 13:28:48 GMT -6
I personally am partial to: 8. Using a computer to set districts based on shortest distance (popular with a lot of sports like volleyball, track, etc.) as it not only benefits football but also other sports nearby. Come playoff time though I feel if you'd have to travel you'd have to suck it up and travel and because the transport budget wasn't being drained by constant really long road trips that the school would be able to afford it. But I am a lay coach so idk how any of the budgeting works lol They was the idea behind the 3 classes splitting into 6 system we did have for a few years, but it created laughable imbalances in the biggest and smallest classes. One or two schools would crush everyone in their conference by 50 each week because they were 2-3 times the size and had tons more money and resources. It saved on gas, but the amount of running clocks in football went up dramatically. |
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Post by raymul313 on Mar 11, 2016 16:19:46 GMT -6
I personally am partial to: 8. Using a computer to set districts based on shortest distance (popular with a lot of sports like volleyball, track, etc.) as it not only benefits football but also other sports nearby. Come playoff time though I feel if you'd have to travel you'd have to suck it up and travel and because the transport budget wasn't being drained by constant really long road trips that the school would be able to afford it. But I am a lay coach so idk how any of the budgeting works lol They was the idea behind the 3 classes splitting into 6 system we did have for a few years, but it created laughable imbalances in the biggest and smallest classes. One or two schools would crush everyone in their conference by 50 each week because they were 2-3 times the size and had tons more money and resources. It saved on gas, but the amount of running clocks in football went up dramatically. Maybe there is a way to balance competiveness and distance and maybe still not have to travel more than 2 hours away for a game. Then again someone stated eariler how the "unfairness" in states' is a lesson to the kids whether they go 4 hours away for a game and/or get smoked by 60 |
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Post by coachwoodall on Mar 12, 2016 6:23:03 GMT -6
Good Lord do some people make it way to difficult! Sounds like they just want to give everyone a trophy and say good season! We are going from four classes to six here in PA this up coming season. I was for it before I was against it LOL It will still be set up the same way with about 100 schools in each class, 4 classes had 150 or so, the state has 12 districts that conduct their own playoffs for a district championship. You win districts then you move into the inner-district playoffs for the state title. Technically if you make the District playoffs you are in the state playoffs. For us now and in the past we have had two regions in our district, top 4 from each make district playoffs and they cross seed the 8 teams. Boom. Easy. Oh you don't even know, the new classifications will 42 or less schools each. AND here is the kicker. In the past we had 8 fairly geographical aligned regions for each classification, 4 Upper state and 4 Lower state. Nice and easy 5 rounds of play offs, top 4 in each region qualify, region winners matched up with another region 4th place. THEN the 4A decided that wasn't fair enough so the split the play offs into divisions and then they needed a pints system to figure out seeding. THEN some of the lower classifications felt they needed to split too. Now here is is the real genius of the new classifications. Ours is the biggest, so we will go back to the only 1 play off division, region winner play next region lower seed, 5 rounds, no more points system, etc.... Nice and easy right? But the geniuses only created 7 geographic regions for our classification, 4 Upper state 3 Lower state. AND we still don't know how they are going to rectify that for the play offs. Funny that those schools that complain how unfair about being the smallest schools in their classification never feel like it's unfair when they get bumped down and become the biggest school in the lower classification. |
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Post by jaydub66 on Mar 12, 2016 15:12:53 GMT -6
Why does North Jersey and South Jersey not play each other? Geographically speaking its a small state It's small in size but who the hell wants to be on I-95 for longer than they have to? It takes about 4-5 hours to get from North NJ to South NJ. It depends. When I play high school ball, the longest ride we ever had was 2 1/2 from Atlantic County to up near Jersey City but I played at a Catholic school. Some high ways are quicker because of traffic but they also do it because of size and demographics. Some North Jersey group 3 schools are basically south jersey group 5, not to mention budgets. Toll, gas, possibly food, etc. It's easier to divide the state in North and South. |
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Post by fantom on Mar 12, 2016 16:47:18 GMT -6
It's small in size but who the hell wants to be on I-95 for longer than they have to? It takes about 4-5 hours to get from North NJ to South NJ. It depends. When I play high school ball, the longest ride we ever had was 2 1/2 from Atlantic County to up near Jersey City but I played at a Catholic school. Some high ways are quicker because of traffic but they also do it because of size and demographics. Some North Jersey group 3 schools are basically south jersey group 5, not to mention budgets. Toll, gas, possibly food, etc. It's easier to divide the state in North and South. The other states, that have true state championships, also have those problems. |
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Post by jaydub66 on Mar 14, 2016 11:18:41 GMT -6
It depends. When I play high school ball, the longest ride we ever had was 2 1/2 from Atlantic County to up near Jersey City but I played at a Catholic school. Some high ways are quicker because of traffic but they also do it because of size and demographics. Some North Jersey group 3 schools are basically south jersey group 5, not to mention budgets. Toll, gas, possibly food, etc. It's easier to divide the state in North and South. The other states, that have true state championships, also have those problems. Not saying they don't but different states put money in different areas for different reasons. NJ is an extremely fractured education system that is also very tied together. There are school districts that don't have any schools or teachers, they have students they send to different school districts and pay for their tuition. Some districts are so big and the student body so diverse, that funding is spent on having a ton of faculty. Having different locations for championships also might ease the burden. If you are hosting X number of championship games at a college and pro stadiums, it might cost Y. If you host Z number of championships here, W number here, K number of here, at stadiums that are other high school stadiums or D3 stadiums, you may ease the financial burden some how. I'm not in tune with why they do it, just assuming. Again, other states have those problems too but it is how people decide to spend that money and how people decide to play the season. NJ high school football is wacky. Our regular season is 8 games, 2 play off games, then we play our thanksgiving day game against a rival, then the week of championships. So a team could go 8-0, win both play off games to make the championship, be 10-0 going into thanksgiving, lose, and play in the championship and win, and be 11-1, without losing a regular season game or a play off game. It's a wacky system, I would change some things, but I'm not in a position to do so. All I can do is coach the kids I got, try and win all the games we have, and go from there. |
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Post by fantom on Mar 14, 2016 11:21:49 GMT -6
The other states, that have true state championships, also have those problems. Not saying they don't but different states put money in different areas for different reasons. NJ is an extremely fractured education system that is also very tied together. There are school districts that don't have any schools or teachers, they have students they send to different school districts and pay for their tuition. Some districts are so big and the student body so diverse, that funding is spent on having a ton of faculty. Having different locations for championships also might ease the burden. If you are hosting X number of championship games at a college and pro stadiums, it might cost Y. If you host Z number of championships here, W number here, K number of here, at stadiums that are other high school stadiums or D3 stadiums, you may ease the financial burden some how. I'm not in tune with why they do it, just assuming. Again, other states have those problems too but it is how people decide to spend that money and how people decide to play the season. NJ high school football is wacky. Our regular season is 8 games, 2 play off games, then we play our thanksgiving day game against a rival, then the week of championships. So a team could go 8-0, win both play off games to make the championship, be 10-0 going into thanksgiving, lose, and play in the championship and win, and be 11-1, without losing a regular season game or a play off game. It's a wacky system, I would change some things, but I'm not in a position to do so. All I can do is coach the kids I got, try and win all the games we have, and go from there. Fine. I've had this discussion a couple of times before with Jersey coaches. It all sounds crazy as hell to me but what do I care? If they like it that's all that matters. |
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Post by jaydub66 on Mar 14, 2016 11:35:31 GMT -6
Not saying they don't but different states put money in different areas for different reasons. NJ is an extremely fractured education system that is also very tied together. There are school districts that don't have any schools or teachers, they have students they send to different school districts and pay for their tuition. Some districts are so big and the student body so diverse, that funding is spent on having a ton of faculty. Having different locations for championships also might ease the burden. If you are hosting X number of championship games at a college and pro stadiums, it might cost Y. If you host Z number of championships here, W number here, K number of here, at stadiums that are other high school stadiums or D3 stadiums, you may ease the financial burden some how. I'm not in tune with why they do it, just assuming. Again, other states have those problems too but it is how people decide to spend that money and how people decide to play the season. NJ high school football is wacky. Our regular season is 8 games, 2 play off games, then we play our thanksgiving day game against a rival, then the week of championships. So a team could go 8-0, win both play off games to make the championship, be 10-0 going into thanksgiving, lose, and play in the championship and win, and be 11-1, without losing a regular season game or a play off game. It's a wacky system, I would change some things, but I'm not in a position to do so. All I can do is coach the kids I got, try and win all the games we have, and go from there. Fine. I've had this discussion a couple of times before with Jersey coaches. It all sounds crazy as hell to me but what do I care? If they like it that's all that matters. I don't like it, at all. I think you need different number of games at each level of football. NFL is good at 16 games + playoffs, it a lot of football, but they're paid and it's the top guys. The NCAA with the +1 and conference championships now at 15 total games, I think that is too much, even at the FCS and DII and DIII levels where 15 games is too much, I'd shrink it by a couple games but if you're really complaining about a couple games a year, it isn't much to argue about. Especially when it's a way for schools to print money. Every school in NJ plays minimum of 10 games (8 Regular season, thanksgiving, and consolation/play off) and maximum 12 games. I think schools have the schedule the way it is because it doesn't eat into any other sports time (basketball/wrestling/etc) but I'd rather have 9 or 10 games as a regular season, 2-3 playoff games including the championship game. 12-14 games. max, 10 minimum and get rid of consolation games all together. Have thanksgiving day games be the regular season finale or something, then start the playoffs |
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Post by fantom on Mar 14, 2016 11:48:26 GMT -6
Fine. I've had this discussion a couple of times before with Jersey coaches. It all sounds crazy as hell to me but what do I care? If they like it that's all that matters. I don't like it, at all. I think you need different number of games at each level of football. NFL is good at 16 games + playoffs, it a lot of football, but they're paid and it's the top guys. The NCAA with the +1 and conference championships now at 15 total games, I think that is too much, even at the FCS and DII and DIII levels where 15 games is too much, I'd shrink it by a couple games but if you're really complaining about a couple games a year, it isn't much to argue about. Especially when it's a way for schools to print money. Every school in NJ plays minimum of 10 games (8 Regular season, thanksgiving, and consolation/play off) and maximum 12 games. I think schools have the schedule the way it is because it doesn't eat into any other sports time (basketball/wrestling/etc) but I'd rather have 9 or 10 games as a regular season, 2-3 playoff games including the championship game. 12-14 games. max, 10 minimum and get rid of consolation games all together. Have thanksgiving day games be the regular season finale or something, then start the playoffs If you play in the state championship in Virginia you play 15 games. There are a lot of states that play 15. I will say that Thanksgiving games seem to be a thing only in the northeast. |
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Post by coachcb on Mar 14, 2016 11:57:27 GMT -6
In Montana, everything is split by enrollment numbers, regardless of travel distances or success. The private schools all play with the public schools as there aren't enough of them to form a private school league. The only teams in the state that really get screwed are the smaller 11-man, 8-man and 6-man schools as the enrollment ranges are pretty broad. Teams on the low end of the 11-man "B" classification (AA, A, B, C: 8-man, C:6-man) tend to get mauled by schools twice their size or they slide down to 8-man and win big because they're much bigger than the rest of the their opponents. We're seeing the same thing with 8-man. Mid-sized to lower enrollment 8-man teams are pushing to raise the 6-man cut-offs so that "they can compete". One 8-man team has decent enrollment in the school, has been very competitive most years but they started pushing for the change in 6-man enrollment numbers because their program numbers dipped. But, they're always reminded of the one private class A school in the state could literally drop a class every other year yet they manage to beat teams 8-9 times their size. It's not about "recruiting" either. They run a fantastic program with a great tradition and end up with large numbers of players out every year. They have around 100 boys in the school and 50-60 of them go out for ball every year. As fantom pointed out, you can't make drastic changes to be "fair" without someone else getting screwed over. In states with more schools and larger enrollments, I think it would just be best to increase the number of divisions (based on geographic location) within each enrollment classification and work out a play-off system based on that. It cuts down on travel time and builds great school rivalries. That solves the inter city school versus rural school issue while still keeping everything fair. Booster club involvement, school funding, socio-economic conditions (etc) should be thrown out the window as those things change consistently while school enrollment and (duh..) geographic location don't. I do think that private schools either need the multiplier or they need to play in their own classification as many have turned in sports magnates(regardless of "recruiting"). |
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Post by macdiiddy on Mar 14, 2016 12:37:44 GMT -6
I do think that private schools either need the multiplier or they need to play in their own classification as many have turned in sports magnates(regardless of "recruiting"). Against my better judgement I just want to respond with one thing. I do not believe its anything special the schools are doing, its about getting a kid who had a family structure around them, with parents who are literally investing in their education. People feel like there is some magical formula or backhanded thing the private schools are doing, its more the community that is formed and the lives the kids live at home. I know this can be a hot button issue, Just my observations looking from the inside out. |
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Post by coachorm on Mar 14, 2016 12:44:22 GMT -6
Our state is due to overhaul the classifications and districts in 2016. Right now, we have a handful of private schools who play in a Privates Only division, which is divided into 2 classes, but may Privates play with the Public Schools after an enrollment multiplier. That was recently changed and the new rule will apparently force just about all of them into the Private Division. For the public schools, we have the 32 biggest schools all playing each other in 4 districts, all of whom have guaranteed playoff spots (travel time for some of them is 2-3 hours for road games and 5-6 for 1st round playoff games--it cost some schools $10K+ to go to the first round and get beat because they needed to get hotels). The rest of the schools are divided evenly into 5 classes based on enrollment, with 8 districts per class and the top 4 in each district getting playoff spots. Non-conference games don't count. This was an improvement over our last system, which had 3 public classifications that got split into 6 for the playoffs, which . You had schools of nearly 3000 playing schools with barely 1000 kids in the regular season. The top 2 seeds were guaranteed spots, but then the the state used a very complex BCS-style computer ranking system to determine who else made it and what the seeding looked like. This was done to cut down on travel time, but everyone hated it. The state messed up the computer rankings two years in a row, which really messed with the schools involved. So now, the latest attempts to improve things has some ideas that seem weird to me. Some proposals they're looking at are: 1. Separating out Rural and City/Suburban schools (basing playoff seeding/classification on population density). 2. Separating schools based on booster club revenue. 3. Separating schools based on median community income. 4. Separating schools based on the size and pay of the coaching staffs. 5. Eliminating districts altogether and replacing them with huge "regions" that teams can draw from, which means a return to points systems. 6. Having different playoff/tournament systems for schools based on their records in the regular season. 7. Letting schools work together to create their own conferences/districts on their own--these teams may or may not be reclassified in the playoffs. 8. Using a computer to set districts based on shortest distance (popular with a lot of sports like volleyball, track, etc.). 9. Creating districts based on geographical boundaries by counties and cities. 10. Basing districts off "competitiveness," which apparently means some would move up or down based on record. Does any other state do these things already? If so, what's the experience been? Our last one was a huge cluster for football, but in the other sports (which play in a 3 class system, anyway) it wasn't as big a deal. Coach, just seeing that list of possible ways to split can I assume you took the endless survey that was sent out to all coaches? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2016 12:47:19 GMT -6
coachorm, I did. My survey literally never ended. I was clicking through it for 3 days off and on and it just kept repeating the same exact questions about teams in our area and who their opponents should be. I finally just closed that tab.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 14, 2016 13:33:03 GMT -6
I do think that private schools either need the multiplier or they need to play in their own classification as many have turned in sports magnates(regardless of "recruiting"). Against my better judgement I just want to respond with one thing. I do not believe its anything special the schools are doing, its about getting a kid who had a family structure around them, with parents who are literally investing in their education. People feel like there is some magical formula or backhanded thing the private schools are doing, its more the community that is formed and the lives the kids live at home. I know this can be a hot button issue, Just my observations looking from the inside out. I do agree with you to an extent as I have taught in both private and public schools. The private school environment is generally one of high expectations with little room for poor behavior or laziness. A kid in a private school that refuses to do their work and fails or acts out in class doesn't get a mountain of passes and IEPs/behavioral accommodation plans, they're just removed from the school. So, the environment is conducive to achievement, proper behavior and a work ethic. Generally speaking, parents that want their kids in private school also demand the same of their children which leaves you with a team filled with hard workers who understand accountability and you have support from the community. However, I have seen one private school in this state become a magnate for football. I've seen several very good athletes gravitate towards the school because of their success in football. I don't know that they do much in the way of "recruiting" but the school has won many state championships because of the community and academic environment that we've both described. However, there is another private school in the state that blatantly recruits kids, starting in middle school. I've coached middle school ball a few years in my career and have seen high school coaches from this school at our games and talking to better players and parents afterwards. BUT, it isn't against any laws in this state because they're not offering any sort of financial assistance; just asking them if they want to attend their school. It really is a grey area for me because I can't say that I wouldn't do the same thing given that the kid has to make grades and behave themselves if they do decide to go to a private school. |
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