dman54
Sophomore Member
Learning everyday...
Posts: 212
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Post by dman54 on Mar 3, 2016 12:07:41 GMT -6
So guys, I just wanted to say that now I'm really pi$$ed off. I was reading the news on one of the most respected online newspapers in Brazil and saw something that translate to this: "Don't let your son head the ball", talking about the act of heading the soccer ball. I get it why they talk about this related to football (we all know some head hits can be dangerous), but soccer!?!? Heading a ball that weights less than 1lb??? If someone wants to try to read it: g1.globo.com/ciencia-e-saude/blog/espiral/post/nao-deixe-seu-filho-cabecear.htmlJust my outburst.
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Post by mariner42 on Mar 3, 2016 12:54:47 GMT -6
So guys, I just wanted to say that now I'm really pi$$ed off. I was reading the news on one of the most respected online newspapers in Brazil and saw something that translate to this: "Don't let your son head the ball", talking about the act of heading the soccer ball. I get it why they talk about this related to football (we all know some head hits can be dangerous), but soccer!?!? Heading a ball that weights less than 1lb??? If someone wants to try to read it: g1.globo.com/ciencia-e-saude/blog/espiral/post/nao-deixe-seu-filho-cabecear.htmlJust my outburst. The thing that I've read is that while the ball doesn't weigh much, most kids' necks aren't necessarily strong enough to keep their heads in place upon contact with a fast-moving ball. Their head gets rattled even though the 'collision' doesn't seem to be much.
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Post by jrk5150 on Mar 3, 2016 12:55:35 GMT -6
The effect of heading a soccer ball has been a discussion point for a while now, especially since the CTE discussion has moved from concussions to repeated sub-concussive hits.
Youth leagues are starting to ban heading in the same way that youth hockey leagues ban checking. In fact, many youth leagues have been prohibiting girls from heading the ball until a certain age because of concussion issues for years now.
In other words, this is kind of old news, even given how recent the whole CTE thing is...
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Post by matello on Mar 3, 2016 13:20:33 GMT -6
I'm based in the UK, have played lot of soccer and also coached at youth level. Even 10 years ago, was pretty aware that teaching the young kids to head the ball was fraught with problems. In games it couldn't be avoided (wasn't banned even at under 8s and don't think this has changed ) but used to teach them with a foam ball. I know that some pros from the 1950s have had similar problems such as memory issues & suspected CTE but that was back when the ball would suck up moisture and was like heading a rock. When I played in my teens (soccer in the winter, football in the summer in the UK) the balls were much lighter but still heavier than today but if you played a team that played "route1" and just played it long all the time you could find yourself heading the ball 20 or 30 times in a game. Some positions will go games without heading the ball but centre forwards and centre backs will always be involved in an ariel battle at some point.
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Post by leighty on Mar 4, 2016 13:16:10 GMT -6
Another irresponsible journalist trying to protect children!
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dman54
Sophomore Member
Learning everyday...
Posts: 212
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Post by dman54 on Mar 4, 2016 14:38:20 GMT -6
I don't know about you guys...but since I'm from Brazil I have played soccer before i could walk. Never heard anything about it before this CTE stuff exploded. Never saw any friend of mine or people that I know of, even the ones who got to be pros, had anything that could be related to this.
I'm not trying to say that we shouldn't care about children, and of course I wouldn't toss a professional football into the head of a 2 years old, but again, the article was about not letting any children head balls, not even for simple recreation.
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Post by matello on Mar 5, 2016 11:14:19 GMT -6
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Post by spreadattack on Mar 6, 2016 7:36:00 GMT -6
This is not new and also is in no way surprising, and it is arguably an even more obvious threat to youth player safety than a lot of football collisions. Yes, the ball weighs approx 1 lb, but as we all learned in elementary school science, force = mass x velocity (plus factoring in the velocity of the player's head/body moving towards the ball).
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Post by coachfrankc on Mar 6, 2016 14:45:18 GMT -6
Children's head/necks are not fully developed yet to withstand the force of the ball. Girls' soccer is the 2nd leading sport in the country in terms of number of concussions. It's absolutely a step in the right direction.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 6, 2016 15:10:29 GMT -6
I don't know about you guys...but since I'm from Brazil I have played soccer before i could walk. Never heard anything about it before this CTE stuff exploded. Never saw any friend of mine or people that I know of, even the ones who got to be pros, had anything that could be related to this. I'm not trying to say that we shouldn't care about children, and of course I wouldn't toss a professional football into the head of a 2 years old, but again, the article was about not letting any children head balls, not even for simple recreation. I understand the frustration, but the bottom line is : Things hitting the head are bad. Things causing the brain to rattle around in the skull are bad.
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Post by blb on Mar 6, 2016 15:33:20 GMT -6
I don't know about you guys...but since I'm from Brazil I have played soccer before i could walk. Never heard anything about it before this CTE stuff exploded. Never saw any friend of mine or people that I know of, even the ones who got to be pros, had anything that could be related to this. I'm not trying to say that we shouldn't care about children, and of course I wouldn't toss a professional football into the head of a 2 years old, but again, the article was about not letting any children head balls, not even for simple recreation. I understand the frustration, but the bottom line is : Things hitting the head are bad. Things causing the brain to rattle around in the skull are bad.
,,,not to mention when two players go up simultaneously in effort to head ball in opposite directions and inadvertently "bang heads."
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jmg999
Junior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by jmg999 on Mar 6, 2016 16:19:06 GMT -6
One of the original studies on CTE was performed on Italian soccer players, who had a significant greater risk of traumatic brain injury than the general population.
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Post by spartandefense on Mar 6, 2016 17:08:35 GMT -6
This is not new and also is in no way surprising, and it is arguably an even more obvious threat to youth player safety than a lot of football collisions. Yes, the ball weighs approx 1 lb, but as we all learned in elementary school science, force = mass x velocity (plus factoring in the velocity of the player's head/body moving towards the ball). Not to be a know it all but it is F = ma. a = acceleration.
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jmg999
Junior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by jmg999 on Mar 6, 2016 23:46:30 GMT -6
This is not new and also is in no way surprising, and it is arguably an even more obvious threat to youth player safety than a lot of football collisions. Yes, the ball weighs approx 1 lb, but as we all learned in elementary school science, force = mass x velocity (plus factoring in the velocity of the player's head/body moving towards the ball). Not to be a know it all but it is F = ma. a = acceleration. I didn't notice that before, but in actuality, and I'm no physics professor, but wouldn't the measurement we want be kinetic energy (KE)? The formula for KE effectively determines the force w/ which something can be struck, at least in this example. So, KE = ½mv^2 Force measures a change in momentum, so even measuring the effect of the hit as momentum times velocity (n = mv) should work, no?
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Post by Chris Clement on Mar 7, 2016 7:15:23 GMT -6
It's an in elastic collision so Ek isn't a great measure. Force is actually also a poor measure because first, you have no means of directly measuring force on the brain, and second it's confounded by the presence of mass. Simple peak acceleration of the skull is your best approximation, but even this is very complicated because subtle changes in direction are v. important.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 7, 2016 8:09:22 GMT -6
Uhh..guys
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Post by silkyice on Mar 7, 2016 8:29:46 GMT -6
I understand the frustration, but the bottom line is : Things hitting the head are bad. Things causing the brain to rattle around in the skull are bad.
,,,not to mention when two players go up simultaneously in effort to head ball in opposite directions and inadvertently "bang heads."
Maybe I am crazy, but I thought this was the actual risk, two guys hitting hits, not the risk of a soccer ball that you head. Correct me if I am wrong, you don't usually head hard, fast shots. You head soft shots lifted up. In other words, chip type shots instead of line drives.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Mar 7, 2016 8:54:15 GMT -6
,,,not to mention when two players go up simultaneously in effort to head ball in opposite directions and inadvertently "bang heads."
Maybe I am crazy, but I thought this was the actual risk, two guys hitting hits, not the risk of a soccer ball that you head. Correct me if I am wrong, you don't usually head hard, fast shots. You head soft shots lifted up. In other words, chip type shots instead of line drives. They'll use their head almost as a one-timer in hockey. See a guy taking a good shot and head it cross-goal to confuse the keeper.
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Post by fbs on Mar 7, 2016 9:48:13 GMT -6
the occurrence of head injuries in soccer is nothing new. statistically its comparable to football and higher than every other sport. Specifically on the womens side.
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dman54
Sophomore Member
Learning everyday...
Posts: 212
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Post by dman54 on Mar 7, 2016 10:25:56 GMT -6
,,,not to mention when two players go up simultaneously in effort to head ball in opposite directions and inadvertently "bang heads."
Maybe I am crazy, but I thought this was the actual risk, two guys hitting hits, not the risk of a soccer ball that you head. Correct me if I am wrong, you don't usually head hard, fast shots. You head soft shots lifted up. In other words, chip type shots instead of line drives. I agree with silkyice. Two guys going up for the ball and accidentally hit each other head to head. This I can understand. Actually, I was watching a game yesterday (Juventus x Atalanta - Italian Championship) and one guy headed the head of the opponent accidentally. The guy that got hit was on the ground with the hand on his head, but got up after a while and continued to play. I definetly can see this guy having a concussion (he was fine, but it could have been bad). But heading a lifted ball in the air, no i don't think so. Of course I'm no scientist, I'm just saying based on simple experience.
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