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Post by John Knight on Feb 2, 2016 19:59:58 GMT -6
They make kids do a test that looks like they are playing dizzy bat and then ask them if they are dizzzy, Duh!!
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Post by silkyice on Feb 2, 2016 20:25:13 GMT -6
They make kids do a test that looks like they are playing dizzy bat and then ask them if they are dizzzy, Duh!! Had a get take a pretty good hit one spring training. We never put him back in the rest of spring just as a precaution. He makes a 95 on my Algebra 2 exam that I give him about 10 days later. About 7 days after that he sees me at graduation. He tells me he just went back to the doctor that day to get re-checked and it turns out the he had a concussion. I asked how they determined that. He said he only failed one test, but that means he had a concussion. He had to stand on one leg with his eyes closed and recite his phone number backwards. He failed that test so therefore he had a concussion 17 days earlier.
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Post by fantom on Feb 2, 2016 20:36:18 GMT -6
Damn! That means that I've had a concussion all my life.
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Post by vicvinegar on Feb 2, 2016 21:08:51 GMT -6
In thinking recently, why is it that nobody is coming out and urging people to just use common sense in dealing with all of the hysteria? There are literally millions of American middle-aged men who have played high school football that are perfectly fine. The only things perpetuated by the media are studies that show youth/HS contact sports "can" lead to brain damage. We all know this is true in rare and sad instances, but it is such a small minority. When you only study the brains of people who sadly have committed suicide or died young then that is an incredible selection bias. They aren't checking the brains of the millions of men who lived perfectly healthy lives. Concussions are a big deal and should be handled as such, however there is not an epidemic of CTE from playing high school football. If there was, we would all see it daily in our friends, family, and ex players. What, can we, as coaches do to get this out to the public? We try our best to educate our parents on what we do to limit head trauma, but many parents are convinced that playing football will definitely lead to brain damage even though we all know that is not the case. If you feel that is the case, then you should not be coaching. As a coach, I am very frustrated by the one-sided stories shoved down our throats every day. Oh, is that how research is performed? I guess that you should contact the authors of this paper (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4098841/) to let them know that their findings are faulty, b/c they looked at a cohort of players, who didn't all commit suicide or die young. As to your second point, I strongly suggest that you read up on CTE and how, and especially when, its symptoms reveal themselves. As far as education goes, you shouldn't be educating anyone on this topic. Instead, you should educate yourself on A) How scientific research is performed in order to derive empirical results and B) The research that currently exists in this arena. m.nwitimes.com/sports/columnists/john-doherty/john-doherty-unexpected-results-in-mayo-clinic-football-study/article_fb97f947-2266-5d0d-8167-9078c717c80e.html?mobile_touch=trueHow about you educate yourself, sir. Mayo Clinic vs some Doctor that got a movie deal. Idk I'll go with the Mayo Clinic profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/08/dr-julian-bailes-sees-little-risk-of-cte-from-youth-football/Dr. Omalu's mentor's opinion. His words... Not mine.
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Post by silkyice on Feb 2, 2016 21:45:53 GMT -6
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jmg999
Junior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by jmg999 on Feb 3, 2016 3:35:07 GMT -6
If either of you bothered to read the research performed in the study stated, which neither of you clearly have, you would have read that there were severe shortcomings in their findings, which practically negated the results. Btw, the doctor that "got a movie deal," released his own research paper, which has nothing to do w/ the NY Times article you've linked to. But, you might know that if you'd bothered to read the research, instead of reading pop culture articles on the Internet. And, Dr. Omalu's boss's "opinion" about traumatic brain injury (TBI) doesn't trump empirical data.
Finally, the fact that neither of you understand what we're talking about here speaks volumes. First off, NO ONE said that all football players will be stricken w/ TBI. Second, NO ONE said that most football players will be stricken w/ TBI. Third, NO ONE said that even a large number of players would be stricken w/ TBI. All the research has said is that it is significantly more likely that college and professional football players will develop TBI. Neither of you have read the research, neither of you understand what we're talking about, and you're only looking for outs that will negate an argument that NO ONE is making.
Finally, since you're clearly both incapable of comprehending my initial post, there is a direct link to the research that I referenced. It's independent from Dr. Omalu and his findings. So, I don't know what Dr. Omalu has to do w/ the argument that I've made, but if it makes you feel better to twist what I'm saying in attempt to think that you understand what's going on here, feel free.
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Post by fantom on Feb 3, 2016 6:27:03 GMT -6
If either of you bothered to read the research performed in the study stated, which neither of you clearly have, you would have read that there were severe shortcomings in their findings, which practically negated the results. Btw, the doctor that "got a movie deal," released his own research paper, which has nothing to do w/ the NY Times article you've linked to. But, you might know that if you'd bothered to read the research, instead of reading pop culture articles on the Internet. And, Dr. Omalu's boss's "opinion" about traumatic brain injury (TBI) doesn't trump empirical data. Finally, the fact that neither of you understand what we're talking about here speaks volumes. First off, NO ONE said that all football players will be stricken w/ TBI. Second, NO ONE said that most football players will be stricken w/ TBI. Third, NO ONE said that even a large number of players would be stricken w/ TBI. All the research has said is that it is significantly more likely that college and professional football players will develop TBI. Neither of you have read the research, neither of you understand what we're talking about, and you're only looking for outs that will negate an argument that NO ONE is making. Finally, since you're clearly both incapable of comprehending my initial post, there is a direct link to the research that I referenced. It's independent from Dr. Omalu and his findings. So, I don't know what Dr. Omalu has to do w/ the argument that I've made, but if it makes you feel better to twist what I'm saying in attempt to think that you understand what's going on here, feel free. Well, we're just a bunch of dumbass football coaches but I'll see if I can get somebody to read it to me and break it down into shorter words that I can understand. The point that we're trying to make is that parents are the ones reading those pop culture articles. Parents are the ones who believe that playing football is a death sentence.
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jmg999
Junior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by jmg999 on Feb 3, 2016 6:28:14 GMT -6
Apparently, parents aren't the only ones. I don't see too many links to research. I see lots of links to random articles on the Internet.
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Post by fantom on Feb 3, 2016 6:42:58 GMT -6
Apparently, parents aren't the only ones. I don't see too many links to research. I see lots of links to random articles on the Internet. Is being condescending a way of life with you or is it just here? Are you this way in your own staff room?
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jmg999
Junior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by jmg999 on Feb 3, 2016 6:45:02 GMT -6
When ignorant opinion is presented as fact in spite of scientific evidence to the contrary, I take exception.
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Post by silkyice on Feb 3, 2016 6:56:18 GMT -6
When ignorant opinion is presented as fact in spite of scientific evidence to the contrary, I take exception. That is exactly what we are trying to combat. The prevailing opinion right now is that everyone who plays football will end up with brain damage.
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jmg999
Junior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by jmg999 on Feb 3, 2016 7:20:46 GMT -6
When ignorant opinion is presented as fact in spite of scientific evidence to the contrary, I take exception. That is exactly what we are trying to combat. The prevailing opinion right now is that everyone who plays football will end up with brain damage. I've never read anything that states that all football players will end up w/ brain damage. And, if anyone is saying it, it's a lot of ignorant nonsense. The research says that college/professional football players, in comparison to non-football playing individuals of the general population, are three-to-four times more likely to suffer from some form of traumatic brain injury.
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dbeck84
Sophomore Member
Posts: 170
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Post by dbeck84 on Feb 3, 2016 7:40:23 GMT -6
admittedly I have not read the thread in it's entirety but I have an observation and a completely unsubstantiated theory. I can see where the concussion hysteria could be lead by the helmet industry to sell more expensive helmets. I'm not saying this is what's going on, I'm just saying lets not pretend that the media has not been manipulated to cause a panic in the public in the name of money before. Observation: I am not saying the concussion stuff isn't real, but I think the concussion protocol is getting to a point that is starting to be counter productive. As coaches we all know if a kid has any kind of headache, and he's been playing football, he enters the concussion protocol. I've actually had a kid held out by a trainer for a concussion, when upon a visit to a doctor he was diagnosed with a sinus infection. (that's a true story). But to my point, anytime a player has any kind of concussion it is a guaranteed 2 weeks out. Which I'm not saying is right or wrong, all I'm saying is if I am a kid and I know complaining about a headache, dizziness, etc. is going to sit me for 2 weeks minimum...I don't think I'm going to let the trainer know about my headache and dizziness and hope it goes away in a few days. We are starting to see more and more kids avoid the trainer or will see the trainer but tell them "it's a stinger" just because of the cautious way concussions are handled. We currently have a girl's basketball player who has been out 3 weeks with a "concussion". She's out, she's been out and she's still going to be out because the "test" given to her by the trainers is a subjective test. I'm not sure what kind of test it is, I know it's a verbal test - it is not IMPACT testing. The girl in question, got elbowed in the face during a game. It didn't look like much...I've seen the film, she kept playing but they did stop the game because she thought her nose was bleeding at the end of the play. She has been cleared by 2 doctors but because she can't pass whatever verbal test they keep giving her, the trainers will not clear her to play. She is heading into week 4 of being out with a concussion. I heard her comment to another student the other day "I will never complain about a headache again unless I am knocked out cold on the court." - IMO, that's a huge issue. Even worse, we have a trainer who will tell kids they're, "probably ok, but should sit out the next couple days just to be safe." I know there are kids who hide symptoms because they know they will be sat out whether there is a problem or not.
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Post by silkyice on Feb 3, 2016 9:15:38 GMT -6
That is exactly what we are trying to combat. The prevailing opinion right now is that everyone who plays football will end up with brain damage. I've never read anything that states that all football players will end up w/ brain damage. And, if anyone is saying it, it's a lot of ignorant nonsense. The research says that college/professional football players, in comparison to non-football playing individuals of the general population, are three-to-four times more likely to suffer from some form of traumatic brain injury. Of course you haven't read that, because it is not true. But media sensationalism and hype has caused parents, especially moms, to think that. Our media and culture are in a constant state of the Sky is Falling. Just some examples: My dad is a doctor. When I was 12 years old, I was literally in fear that my dad was going to get AIDS because the media was predicting that 90% of doctors would contract HIV in the next few years. Just hysteria. I had a student that I taught around 12 years ago who was in mortal fear of the Bird Flu. She really thought that the world was going to end soon because of this potential outbreak. Whether global warming is real or not, here are some crazy predictions: www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/18888-embarrassing-predictions-haunt-the-global-warming-industryPredictions like children would not see snow again. Predictions from Al Gore that the North Pole would be ice-free by 2013. Movies like Waterworld based on global warming and melting Polar Caps just reinforce ideas. Thank goodness Hollywood hasn't made any crazy hysterical concussion movies. Oh wait....
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Post by John Knight on Feb 3, 2016 10:21:08 GMT -6
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Post by vicvinegar on Feb 3, 2016 17:16:28 GMT -6
Apparently, parents aren't the only ones. I don't see too many links to research. I see lots of links to random articles on the Internet. So the Mayo Clinics findings do not classify as research? I didn't realize that. Thank you for today's lesson.
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Post by John Knight on Feb 4, 2016 5:45:31 GMT -6
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Post by John Knight on Feb 4, 2016 6:57:17 GMT -6
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Post by John Knight on Feb 5, 2016 11:49:11 GMT -6
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