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Post by spreadattack on Jan 12, 2016 16:43:21 GMT -6
Not going to wade into this, but if the main answer to legitimate concerns/questions CTE, concussions, and issues from repeated subconcussive hits is simply to do more neck exercises or move the head away more during tackles, then football has a real problem.
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Post by groundchuck on Jan 12, 2016 17:53:01 GMT -6
We do neck exercises and bridging. If it helps that's great. If nothing else our kids will have strong necks.
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Post by NC1974 on Jan 14, 2016 8:14:29 GMT -6
Not going to wade into this, but if the main answer to legitimate concerns/questions CTE, concussions, and issues from repeated subconcussive hits is simply to do more neck exercises or move the head away more during tackles, then football has a real problem. I agree that these things are not THE answer to the problem, but certainly wouldn't ignore them either.
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Post by John Knight on Jan 14, 2016 9:31:09 GMT -6
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Post by ccscoach on Jan 20, 2016 9:58:16 GMT -6
What happened to the Mark Kelso helmet and the Steve Wallace helmet? I remember these guys with these mushroom helmets and they extended there career by 8-9 years where did that go?
What happened to those two guys? Steve Wallace and Mark Kelso.
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Post by ccscoach on Jan 20, 2016 10:01:37 GMT -6
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Post by natenator on Jan 20, 2016 10:21:52 GMT -6
Zuckerman, S. L., Kerr, Z. Y., Yengo-Kahn, A., Wasserman, E., Covassin, T., & Solomon, G. S. (2015). Epidemiology of sports-related concussion in NCAA athletes from 2009-2010 to 2013-2014. The American Journal of Sports Medicine, 43(11), 2654-2662. doi:10.1177/0363546515599634
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Post by silkyice on Jan 20, 2016 10:30:37 GMT -6
Zuckerman, S. L., Kerr, Z. Y., Yengo-Kahn, A., Wasserman, E., Covassin, T., & Solomon, G. S. (2015). Epidemiology of sports-related concussion in NCAA athletes from 2009-2010 to 2013-2014. The American Journal of Sports Medicine, 43(11), 2654-2662. doi:10.1177/0363546515599634 WOW!!!!!!
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Post by natenator on Jan 20, 2016 10:36:45 GMT -6
Zuckerman, S. L., Kerr, Z. Y., Yengo-Kahn, A., Wasserman, E., Covassin, T., & Solomon, G. S. (2015). Epidemiology of sports-related concussion in NCAA athletes from 2009-2010 to 2013-2014. The American Journal of Sports Medicine, 43(11), 2654-2662. doi:10.1177/0363546515599634 WOW!!!!!! I have the full article but don't feel comfortable posting it as it's not under a commons licence. As I recall from other people, a graph containing the top portion table detailing the incidence rate was on display at the recent coaching AFCA conference
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Post by natenator on Jan 20, 2016 10:52:18 GMT -6
Lincoln, A., Caswell, S., Almquist, J., Dunn, R., Norris, J., & Hinton, R. (2011). Trends in concussion incidence in high school sports: A prospective 11-year study. The American Journal of Sports Medicine, 39(5), 958-963. doi:10.1177/0363546510392326
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jmg999
Junior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by jmg999 on Jan 27, 2016 19:46:27 GMT -6
Zuckerman, S. L., Kerr, Z. Y., Yengo-Kahn, A., Wasserman, E., Covassin, T., & Solomon, G. S. (2015). Epidemiology of sports-related concussion in NCAA athletes from 2009-2010 to 2013-2014. The American Journal of Sports Medicine, 43(11), 2654-2662. doi:10.1177/0363546515599634 The thing I find most interesting about this data set is that of the 15 sports listed in Fig. 1, only 33% of them require all participants to wear helmets.
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Jan 31, 2016 12:59:49 GMT -6
How do we know it's just not part of old age? I'm Not saying playing Professional football doesn't have something to do with cte I'm saying people that played high school? We all know tons of old ladies/women that didn't play football or sports and have or got dementia and Alzheimer's . So how do we not know it just comes on faster with Professional footballers, And are they digging into the background of possibly painkillers having an affect too? Idk, do they?
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Jan 31, 2016 13:01:22 GMT -6
What happened to the Mark Kelso helmet and the Steve Wallace helmet? I remember these guys with these mushroom helmets and they extended there career by 8-9 years where did that go? What happened to those two guys? Steve Wallace and Mark Kelso. Are talking about the big rubber cover? I think you can still buy those
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Post by natenator on Jan 31, 2016 13:36:40 GMT -6
How do we know it's just not part of old age? I'm Not saying playing Professional football doesn't have something to do with cte I'm saying people that played high school? We all know tons of old ladies/women that didn't play football or sports and have or got dementia and Alzheimer's . So how do we not know it just comes on faster with Professional footballers, And are they digging into the background of possibly painkillers having an affect too? Idk, do they? You think former players 35-50 years in age reporting symptoms of CTE are doing so because of old age? I get that there could be several confounding variables not accounted for in the CTE discussion but let's not pretend that repeated banging of heads is healthy either.
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jmg999
Junior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by jmg999 on Jan 31, 2016 15:19:41 GMT -6
How do we know it's just not part of old age? I'm Not saying playing Professional football doesn't have something to do with cte I'm saying people that played high school? We all know tons of old ladies/women that didn't play football or sports and have or got dementia and Alzheimer's . So how do we not know it just comes on faster with Professional footballers, And are they digging into the background of possibly painkillers having an affect too? Idk, do they? This is how scientific evidence is discovered. Researchers take one cohort of randomly selected football players, analyze them, and compare their results against a randomly selected cohort of individuals, who did not play football but are similar in other characteristics, such as age. If the incidences of neurodegenerative disorders in the player cohort are significantly greater than in the non-player cohort, a claim can be made that all other factors being equal, football players are at greater risk of suffering from neurodegeneration at some point in their lives. It's not causative, and it never will be, but it is correlative.
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klaby
Junior Member
Posts: 389
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Post by klaby on Jan 31, 2016 17:12:44 GMT -6
Here is something to think about. Why do all of these studies fail to mention drug usage? We all know NFL players are given opioids, and we also know that some also used illegal drugs. So why is that never mentioned in the research? I believe that we know drugs cause brain issues, so why isn't that ever discussed in the scientific research?
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Post by fantom on Jan 31, 2016 20:31:28 GMT -6
How do we know it's just not part of old age? I'm Not saying playing Professional football doesn't have something to do with cte I'm saying people that played high school? We all know tons of old ladies/women that didn't play football or sports and have or got dementia and Alzheimer's . So how do we not know it just comes on faster with Professional footballers, And are they digging into the background of possibly painkillers having an affect too? Idk, do they? You think former players 35-50 years in age reporting symptoms of CTE are doing so because of old age? Sure 35 year old guys forget things, even guys who didn't play football. You know why? It's not memory loss. They couldn't remember chit when they were 25.
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Post by natenator on Jan 31, 2016 22:15:06 GMT -6
You think former players 35-50 years in age reporting symptoms of CTE are doing so because of old age? Sure 35 year old guys forget things, even guys who didn't play football. You know why? It's not memory loss. They couldn't remember chit when they were 25. If only forgetfulness was the only symptom of CTE. I'm sure Waters, Robinson, Seau, etc all killed themselves because they simply forgot things.
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Post by fantom on Jan 31, 2016 22:24:57 GMT -6
Sure 35 year old guys forget things, even guys who didn't play football. You know why? It's not memory loss. They couldn't remember chit when they were 25. If only forgetfulness was the only symptom of CTE. I'm sure Waters, Robinson, Seau, etc all killed themselves because they simply forgot things. No but I don't believe that those severe cases are common. With all of the talk about CTE, though, every time that a guy has a forgetful spell he worries about CTE. I know that because I've wondered about it myself. Then I remembered that I was the guy who locked himself out my dorm room thirteen times in my first semester in college. I do understand that some guys have serious memory problems at an early age and I'm sure that playing PROFESSIONAL football at least contributed. I've heard Jim McMahon talk about getting lost driving home. I'm sure that football caused that but I doubt that it was high school football.
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Post by gccwolverine on Jan 31, 2016 22:52:52 GMT -6
If only forgetfulness was the only symptom of CTE. I'm sure Waters, Robinson, Seau, etc all killed themselves because they simply forgot things. No but I don't believe that those severe cases are common. With all of the talk about CTE, though, every time that a guy has a forgetful spell he worries about CTE. I know that because I've wondered about it myself. Then I remembered that I was the guy who locked himself out my dorm room thirteen times in my first semester in college. I do understand that some guys have serious memory problems at an early age and I'm sure that playing PROFESSIONAL football at least contributed. I've heard Jim McMahon talk about getting lost driving home. I'm sure that football caused that but I doubt that it was high school football. Agreed. And what factor if any did the come and booze have? Are we to believe none and blame solely football?
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Post by silkyice on Feb 1, 2016 0:16:50 GMT -6
Again, I have no doubt that former long time NFL players who continued to lead with their head full speed over and over in crappy helmets while they actually had a concussion and took steriods, pain killers, and amphetamines, most likely have brain issues. This is not to say that is the only way to have a brain issue. But we all know that type of stuff went on.
All that is in the past. What is done is done. This is not to say that the NFL shouldn't be responsible or that they should be.
But my two main points of emphasis are that the overwhelming majority of any level football players are fine.
And more importantly, the main point of emphasis is what about a 16 year old right now who plays football for another 14 years including the NFL? I truly believe that with newer helmets, concussion education, concussion protocols, safer techniques, and newer rules and enforcements, that 16 year old is tremendously safer. Of course nothing can be completely safe, but I believe that most reasonable people should come to that conclusion.
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jmg999
Junior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by jmg999 on Feb 1, 2016 1:29:15 GMT -6
Here is something to think about. Why do all of these studies fail to mention drug usage? We all know NFL players are given opioids, and we also know that some also used illegal drugs. So why is that never mentioned in the research? I believe that we know drugs cause brain issues, so why isn't that ever discussed in the scientific research? It's b/c, we know what type of damage drugs, such as opioids cause, and they cause a different type of damage to a different part of the brain.
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Post by leighty on Feb 1, 2016 11:25:30 GMT -6
This is how scientific evidence is discovered. Researchers take one cohort of randomly selected football players, analyze them, and compare their results against a randomly selected cohort of individuals, who did not play football but are similar in other characteristics, such as age. If the incidences of neurodegenerative disorders in the player cohort are significantly greater than in the non-player cohort, a claim can be made that all other factors being equal, football players are at greater risk of suffering from neurodegeneration at some point in their lives. It's not causative, and it never will be, but it is correlative. I'm glad at least one person in this thread knows how science works.
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Post by natenator on Feb 1, 2016 11:26:48 GMT -6
If only forgetfulness was the only symptom of CTE. I'm sure Waters, Robinson, Seau, etc all killed themselves because they simply forgot things. I do understand that some guys have serious memory problems at an early age and I'm sure that playing PROFESSIONAL football at least contributed. I've heard Jim McMahon talk about getting lost driving home. I'm sure that football caused that but I doubt that it was high school football. Logically, I can agree with this. The problem, however, is what we're seeing in this thread and other threads where we have people bringing up other reasons to help explain CTE. Drugs, steroids, old age, (at 35 - hey, could be low T or poor thyroid function), etc. As jmg999 points out, we know the effects of various compounds on the brain. Everyone in the sport, it seems, wants to point fingers at other elements instead of accepting some logic that repeated head hits might not be all that healthy. It's easier to point blame at something else than it is to find solutions that reduce the amount of head hit exposure. It's like people bitching about laws that prohibit texting and driving by pointing out people who drink and drive. People doing one doesn't negate the problems associated with the other.
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Post by natenator on Feb 1, 2016 11:37:17 GMT -6
Maybe I am naive but I just don't see a helmet being able to account for the rotational acceleration during collision, which is believed to be the most important factor in concussive episodes.
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Post by chi5hi on Feb 2, 2016 13:04:51 GMT -6
If we insist on getting rid of the field turf and going back to a grass field, we will get fewer head injuries. Note how many times a player is turned and hits the turf with the back of his helmet. Remember what's underneath that beautiful shiny new turf...ASPHALT!
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Post by centercoach on Feb 2, 2016 13:46:17 GMT -6
Regular grass can give you concussions just as well. Very few things are as unforgiving as solid ground. While the concussion thing MAY and i stress the maybe getting out of hand( i believe its better safe than sorry.)
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Post by John Knight on Feb 2, 2016 14:14:11 GMT -6
I have seen the equivalent of Dizzy Bat used as a return test. Bulldung is my comment on that!
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Post by silkyice on Feb 2, 2016 19:41:46 GMT -6
admittedly I have not read the thread in it's entirety but I have an observation and a completely unsubstantiated theory. I can see where the concussion hysteria could be lead by the helmet industry to sell more expensive helmets. I'm not saying this is what's going on, I'm just saying lets not pretend that the media has not been manipulated to cause a panic in the public in the name of money before. Observation: I am not saying the concussion stuff isn't real, but I think the concussion protocol is getting to a point that is starting to be counter productive. As coaches we all know if a kid has any kind of headache, and he's been playing football, he enters the concussion protocol. I've actually had a kid held out by a trainer for a concussion, when upon a visit to a doctor he was diagnosed with a sinus infection. (that's a true story). But to my point, anytime a player has any kind of concussion it is a guaranteed 2 weeks out. Which I'm not saying is right or wrong, all I'm saying is if I am a kid and I know complaining about a headache, dizziness, etc. is going to sit me for 2 weeks minimum...I don't think I'm going to let the trainer know about my headache and dizziness and hope it goes away in a few days. We are starting to see more and more kids avoid the trainer or will see the trainer but tell them "it's a stinger" just because of the cautious way concussions are handled. We currently have a girl's basketball player who has been out 3 weeks with a "concussion". She's out, she's been out and she's still going to be out because the "test" given to her by the trainers is a subjective test. I'm not sure what kind of test it is, I know it's a verbal test - it is not IMPACT testing. The girl in question, got elbowed in the face during a game. It didn't look like much...I've seen the film, she kept playing but they did stop the game because she thought her nose was bleeding at the end of the play. She has been cleared by 2 doctors but because she can't pass whatever verbal test they keep giving her, the trainers will not clear her to play. She is heading into week 4 of being out with a concussion. I heard her comment to another student the other day "I will never complain about a headache again unless I am knocked out cold on the court." - IMO, that's a huge issue. Great Post!!!
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Post by silkyice on Feb 2, 2016 19:42:44 GMT -6
I have seen the equivalent of Dizzy Bat used as a return test. Bulldung is my comment on that! No idea what any of that means at all.
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