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Post by coachsmiley20 on Dec 14, 2015 12:29:09 GMT -6
I am currently a Co Coordinator on the Defensive side of the ball at a historically perennial program. However, due to lack of financial support, we have not been able to become the national power that some expect us to be. In a post season meeting with my fellow coordinator we got to talking about what's missing within our program. We are able to pick out things that could be better but are unable to find a solution. Our district has told us that we are approximately 20 million dollars behind the schools that we are expected to compete with. Again, not fair but it is what it is. My question to you all is if we know aren't gonna catch up anytime soon, what would be the first thing to fix within your program? Maybe a better scenario, we know how far we are behind. So instead of giving us the 20 million, they give us 7 million. Based on what I'm about to tell you about our program, what would you do with the money.
We have 14 paid coaching slots compared to 17-18 paid slots at schools we play against and are expected to beat.
Our weight room actually got smaller when we got our new school built some 15 years ago. It is big enough to house 10 full racks but very tightly organized. It is approximately 1000 sq feet.
We are sponsored by Under Armour as part of their undeniable program so our jerseys and cleats are not a problem.
Our stadium is top notch but dwindling fast due to lack of upkeep. Mold can be seen underneath and reserved seat signs and banners are hanging after being either blown down or ripped down.
The field is a natural grass field that is severely overuses. The field has to house soccer matches, band competitions, college football games, graduation, and of course our high school football games.
If you were a head coach or have been a head coach with similar problems, what do you see as the best thing to spend the money on. What is the biggest necessity in high school football today? What makes the biggest difference?
Thanks and can't wait to see the responses.
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Dec 14, 2015 12:46:23 GMT -6
What kind of technology do u guys have?
Without knowing all the details, i would say weight room. Some people will argue that,but champions are made in the wt room and then on the track with speed work. Make sure you guys have a quality strength guy that stays up to date, and all coaches are bought in. Not just football, but all.
And if you don't mine me asking, state , and size of school please
Cause 20 million behind just for football? Turf , endzone facilty and then wait a year or 2 and build an indoor?
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Post by jgordon1 on Dec 14, 2015 12:49:27 GMT -6
You need to recruit
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Post by wingtol on Dec 14, 2015 13:33:51 GMT -6
And we are supposed to feel bad for you why.....?
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Post by fbs on Dec 14, 2015 14:05:18 GMT -6
out of everything you listed, there isn't one of them that doesn't have a workaround, or simply doesn't matter. Either you have the kids, or you don't have the kids. which is it? If you have the kids and can't get over the hump, then look in the mirror for the answer. If you don't have the kids and can't get over the hump, then pat yourself on the back for what you've accomplished with middle of the road kids and keep doing what you're doing, and someday you'll have a class come through that will get you over the hump. I hate to break it to you, but money doesn't trump kids on any day, ever.
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Post by centercoach on Dec 14, 2015 14:24:31 GMT -6
Focus on the weight room, that's where champions are made. My schools weight is the same way except twice as small. its filled to the brim, we have 2 full racks, 2 bench press, 1 rack for inclined press and then we have a 3x3 platform for lifts. i would see if you can get some money raised, go to walmart buy a couple weighted jump ropes, running parachutes and such and go from there. Give your guys the brawler mentality, that you may not have the money but you have the work ethic to outwork anybody.
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Post by coachphillip on Dec 14, 2015 14:50:13 GMT -6
Focus on the weight room, that's where champions are made. My schools weight is the same way except twice as small. its filled to the brim, we have 2 full racks, 2 bench press, 1 rack for inclined press and then we have a 3x3 platform for lifts. i would see if you can get some money raised, go to walmart buy a couple weighted jump ropes, running parachutes and such and go from there. Give your guys the brawler mentality, that you may not have the money but you have the work ethic to outwork anybody. He could probably buy the Walmart building itself. He has 7 million dollars.
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Post by centercoach on Dec 14, 2015 15:09:26 GMT -6
Focus on the weight room, that's where champions are made. My schools weight is the same way except twice as small. its filled to the brim, we have 2 full racks, 2 bench press, 1 rack for inclined press and then we have a 3x3 platform for lifts. i would see if you can get some money raised, go to walmart buy a couple weighted jump ropes, running parachutes and such and go from there. Give your guys the brawler mentality, that you may not have the money but you have the work ethic to outwork anybody. He could probably buy the Walmart building itself. He has 7 million dollars. Very true, then id go upgrade to dicks or sports authority...
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Post by wingtol on Dec 14, 2015 16:12:15 GMT -6
out of everything you listed, there isn't one of them that doesn't have a workaround, or simply doesn't matter. Either you have the kids, or you don't have the kids. which is it? If you have the kids and can't get over the hump, then look in the mirror for the answer. If you don't have the kids and can't get over the hump, then pat yourself on the back for what you've accomplished with middle of the road kids and keep doing what you're doing, and someday you'll have a class come through that will get you over the hump. I hate to break it to you, but money doesn't trump kids on any day, ever. After my semi-smart a$$ remark earlier I was just about to post something just like this. I have re-read this multiple times and can't figure out if this is a joke or not. Mold under a sign and banners not hung up, my God the horror! If your trying to find the things money can buy that can get you better you'll be looking for a long time. Like Slim said it's either you or the players. 90% of the HS football playing universe does with less than what you have and lots have success.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Dec 14, 2015 16:28:48 GMT -6
I think the most relevant aspect of the question has to do with how legal/pervasive recruiting is. If teams are out recruiting players from the same general talent pool and some schools have 30 million and others have 7 million, uh guess who has the better value offer? So who's likely to get better players?
My point is that while you may be able to work your butt off in the weight room, practice the right way, be smart in the way you run your program, etc. if the guys you play against do all the same stuff but do it with more talented players then you're fighting an uphill battle.
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Post by chi5hi on Dec 14, 2015 16:43:43 GMT -6
You get money by filling the stadium seats with ticket-buyers who eat hot dogs and drink sodas.
What will get people into the stadium? Winning games!
What do you mostly need to win games (since coaches don't block or tackle)? Great players!
Recruit!
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Post by brophy on Dec 14, 2015 17:19:30 GMT -6
I would be happy to help and bring your program back to National prominence. I will, of course, require a non-refundable $750k retainer for services. Chump change for your program. I'll await your call.
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Post by freezeoption on Dec 14, 2015 21:40:31 GMT -6
mold, heck I got mold in my house, banners can be taken down, be glad you got a weight room, there are people out there without one, you got a stadium, players, coaches and the equipment, nothing comes easy
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Post by coachwoodall on Dec 14, 2015 22:44:11 GMT -6
I'll not snark the query.
Of the things listed that you can get the most return for the investment would be a turf field. You don't have play/practice/perform on a substandard field. Plus you can gain the extra usage (and potential fees) from it. I.E. Not wear out. The other stuff you either have a great deal of control over or you're stuck with.
From that, it's a matter of what works. - Weight room: can you expand, can you better use space, can you trade space, etc.... You seem to suffering a geography problem. We're in the same spot; there is NO WHERE we can add even an extra 200 Sq Ft
- Stadium Issues: create a matenence schedule that is done by the staff, maintence crew, janitors, contractors, or a collection there of. When do signs go up/come down/get replaced When is the stadium pressure washed When are simple maintenance items done When is the stadium winterized (if that is an issue) When is the preseason check list ran through What is the maintanence schedule/procedure when a problem is found Who is in charge of getting things done/who is responsible when things DONT get done
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Post by mariner42 on Dec 14, 2015 22:47:12 GMT -6
And we are supposed to feel bad for you why.....? It's hard when you see your competition has $13 million more than you... Makes you feel left out and sad...
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Post by coachbdud on Dec 14, 2015 22:56:52 GMT -6
I am currently a Co Coordinator on the Defensive side of the ball at a historically perennial program. However, due to lack of financial support, we have not been able to become the national power that some expect us to be. In a post season meeting with my fellow coordinator we got to talking about what's missing within our program. We are able to pick out things that could be better but are unable to find a solution. Our district has told us that we are approximately 20 million dollars behind the schools that we are expected to compete with. Again, not fair but it is what it is. My question to you all is if we know aren't gonna catch up anytime soon, what would be the first thing to fix within your program? Maybe a better scenario, we know how far we are behind. So instead of giving us the 20 million, they give us 7 million. Based on what I'm about to tell you about our program, what would you do with the money. We have 14 paid coaching slots compared to 17-18 paid slots at schools we play against and are expected to beat. Our weight room actually got smaller when we got our new school built some 15 years ago. It is big enough to house 10 full racks but very tightly organized. It is approximately 1000 sq feet. We are sponsored by Under Armour as part of their undeniable program so our jerseys and cleats are not a problem. Our stadium is top notch but dwindling fast due to lack of upkeep. Mold can be seen underneath and reserved seat signs and banners are hanging after being either blown down or ripped down. The field is a natural grass field that is severely overuses. The field has to house soccer matches, band competitions, college football games, graduation, and of course our high school football games. If you were a head coach or have been a head coach with similar problems, what do you see as the best thing to spend the money on. What is the biggest necessity in high school football today? What makes the biggest difference? Thanks and can't wait to see the responses. 1. New turf field... they can do the bleachers and everything else too but really i do not care about the bleachers... you need turf for year round use (all field sports not just football) this was our first year ever with turf... having lines, numbers, hashes, every single day and the ability to still be able to practice if the weather was poor made a HUGE difference 2. have them use some money to make sure you have one of your coaches paid to do nothing but teach weight training... you need EVERy kid in your program in his weight lifting class so you guys can lift year round no matter what these are the two that matter to me... have to have a facility to practice in (also kids want to play on turf, not grass, they want to play in a new stadium, new weight room) we have #1... perpetually fighting for something even close to #2 the rest is just getting fancy... sleds, bags, chutes, sideline replay technology, hudl, maybe a FOOTBALl dedicated ipad but the top 2 will really make your own field product much better if you have the money still you can make a bigger weight room, or a 2nd weight room with more racks if you have that many kids within the program, that the current 10 just aint enough
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Post by joris85 on Dec 15, 2015 1:25:06 GMT -6
I understand you might not have it as easy compared to your competitors, but using it as an excuse might be the biggest pitfall of them all.
A couple months ago I read a book on John Wooden.
He stated that when he arrived at UCLA, the facilities there really were sub-par. He still did his very best to recruit the best players willing to come to that place and coach them as well as he could. He did a very good job, but plateaued some.
After a couple of years, doing an end-of-season evaluation, he made a career changing mental note: Unconsciously, he was using the facilities as an excuse: "I cannot recruit properly with those facilities, so there is no way I can win the NCAA against unfair competition" Shortly after he consciously stopped using the facilities as an excuse, he won the big cookie (10 years in a row at that).
It might not be 100% accurate, can look it up if people want me to.
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Post by bigmoot on Dec 15, 2015 5:34:21 GMT -6
Do you have a nutrition program? Can you hire a nutrionists? Feed the boys all the time. One of the biggest differences in elite programs I've seen.
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Post by bigmoot on Dec 15, 2015 7:36:51 GMT -6
continuing my previous post...
most of the elite programs in my state have a nutrition program. just like in college a players diet it tailored to his needs. Big guys and little dudes need to eat differently. several programs i know of have added cafeterias, kitchens, etc onto the field house and have hired a full time nutrionist. The boys eat before school, during school, after school, heck whenever.
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Post by s73 on Dec 15, 2015 7:47:28 GMT -6
IMO, running a weight program better than others is the #1 thing you can do to compete.
We are a school that is half the size of most of our opponents (due to housing crisis our enrollment never grew to expectations when we joined our current conference) and we have competed for a play off berth 4 times and a division title 3 times in the last 6 seasons. We won the division once and made the play offs twice.
Yes, I know we didn't make it to the play offs the other 4 times and that's probably nothing to brag about but our other sports have been slaughtered in this conference while we have remained relevant and competitive.
I think when you are an underdog, you have to do the weight program better than your opponents. Their in no real way of knowing whether you are doing that or not, but I know that if you treat the weight room like practice where you are actively involved day to day COACHING the kids through their lifts to the point you leave the weight room tired and you haven't even lifted a single thing, then IMO you are probably doing more than most. When I was in HS (27 years ago now) our coaches used to read the paper while we bumbled around the weight room and we were not a great program.
The other thing I have learned, and I know this may be controversial to say and some will disagree with it, but I have learned that not EVERY single kid has to buy int the weight room for you to be successful. IMO, if you can get a core of solid players to buy in and work their butts off you will be in good shape. I have made the mistake for many years HOUNDING dudes that don't want to lift and in the long run have probably run off as many as I have tried to "help". Some guys are just not those guys. But in this sport, again IMO, you need numbers. Again I know this is controversial, but I have begun in the past few years to ficus on the guys that are willing and laying off the guys that aren't. Some of them come around and some don't but I would rather expend energy on the willing and praise them rather than shame the lazy kids. They will suffer their own consequences for not doing the hard things. Find a core and get after WITH them. That is my advice, good, bad or otherwise.
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Post by utchuckd on Dec 15, 2015 7:48:57 GMT -6
Do you mean they are giving you a $7 mil check this year to make up for what they've spent on other programs up til now? I don't really see anything on your list that couldn't be fixed a few times over by 7 million.
1. Turf the field if it's getting over used. 2. Weight room (easy #1 except for the field issues). 3. Set aside money for more coaches. 4. Buy all the new film technology. 5. Build indoor practice facility.
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Post by coachsmiley20 on Dec 15, 2015 7:52:19 GMT -6
Thanks for the input so far, at least most of it. I agree that players are the number 1 but in high school we aren't supposed to have the luxury of choosing our players unless we are willing to go outside the rules and recruit like some have suggested. And maybe that's the reason we've fell behind. I appreciate the replies offering input on the topic. The consensus seems to be Weight Room or Turf Field other than players.
Some took this as a "feel sorry for me" post. It's definitely not that. I value the information that is on here daily and wanted some opinions from other coaches that MIGHT have seen a purchase make a difference. I realize that no purchase is gonna be the magic fix-all but when your opponent is holding a better hand, it'd be nice to know of something that has made the biggest difference in a program that you've seen other than players.
runitupthemiddle - We are Southeast US and approximately 2100 kids, biggest division in our state. 20 million behind in Athletics. And technology - We have Hudl. One defensive coaches office, one offensive coaches office. We use these for film along with classrooms.
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Post by coachsmiley20 on Dec 15, 2015 8:08:26 GMT -6
Do you mean they are giving you a $7 mil check this year to make up for what they've spent on other programs up til now? I don't really see anything on your list that couldn't be fixed a few times over by 7 million. 1. Turf the field if it's getting over used. 2. Weight room (easy #1 except for the field issues). 3. Set aside money for more coaches. 4. Buy all the new film technology. 5. Build indoor practice facility. No they aren't. It was a hypothetical scenario to ask what would be the first purchase you would make if you were behind in the aforementioned categories. And I know that 7 million is a large chunk, but 3 of our opponents have 6+ million dollar facilities and one broke ground recently on theirs. Granted not just football use the facility (Cheer room, wrestling room, locker rooms, etc.) but a 6,000 sq. ft. weight room with a set of dumbbells for every 2 racks. The turf field process has begun recently so I think that's happening.
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Post by utchuckd on Dec 15, 2015 8:11:58 GMT -6
Yeah, you could turf the field and build a hell of an athletic facility for a few million!
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Post by coachg13 on Dec 15, 2015 8:16:50 GMT -6
@coachsmiley - do you mind us asking where you are located?
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Post by coachsmiley20 on Dec 15, 2015 8:27:49 GMT -6
@coachsmiley - do you mind us asking where you are located? South Carolina
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Post by bigmoot on Dec 15, 2015 9:04:19 GMT -6
Since your in SC, go visit Colquitt county GA in Moultrie. You'll get a lot of ideas of how to spend money and things you can build.
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Post by coachsmiley20 on Dec 15, 2015 9:34:30 GMT -6
Since your in SC, go visit Colquitt county GA in Moultrie. You'll get a lot of ideas of how to spend money and things you can build. Thanks for the suggestion. Our QB coach coached in GA a few years ago and I think he is planning on going to Colquitt for a day or two in January. I'm planning on making the trip with him. You may be more familiar with them than me, but I don't think money is a problem for them. I think they're the ones doing the spending which is giving them a leg up on competition. Apparently, there is a guy in Moultrie that makes Coach Propst's wishes come true. Also a big time UGA booster I hear. I do agree with you though. I'm sure they'll be able to say what the best thing they've bought is. Probably a better question for Coach Propst would be "What was the single most important thing that helped you turn this program around? I believe they were 2-8 before he took over.
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Post by sweep26 on Dec 15, 2015 9:50:22 GMT -6
You win with people. Do everything in your power to attract talented youngsters to want to play for you.
Treat the kids that you currently have like the champions that you want them to be. Develop these kids physically and mentally. Coach the heck out of them...get them recruited!!! Do a better job of this than your opponents do. This, more than palatial facilities, will make your program attractive to the "athletes" in your school/area.
It has been documented that many of the talent hotbeds around the world are junky, unattractive places. Don't be so consumed with what you don't have, maximize what you do have.
There are a couple of interesting books...'The Talent Code' and 'The Little Book of Talent' both written by Daniel Coyle, that illustrates the how's and why's of this philosophy working in a multitude of fields.
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Post by coachbdud on Dec 15, 2015 9:52:22 GMT -6
coachsmiley20 you could use the money to fly your staff out to visit with a program (HS or college) you really admire for a week or fly someone in (i volunteer as tribute) to share ideas with your staff/ clinic them
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