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Army/Navy
Dec 12, 2015 17:38:34 GMT -6
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Post by coachrdc on Dec 12, 2015 17:38:34 GMT -6
Up 4 with 16 seconds left, do you punt out of your own end zone or take the intentional safety? Navy's up and Army had no timeouts. Navy punted and it worked out, but just curious as to what you all thought
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Post by fantom on Dec 12, 2015 17:44:15 GMT -6
Up 4 with 16 seconds left, do you punt out of your own end zone or take the intentional safety? Navy's up and Army had no timeouts. Navy punted and it worked out, but just curious as to what you all thought In HS, no-brainer: Safety. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 12, 2015 18:06:05 GMT -6
Up 4 with 16 seconds left, do you punt out of your own end zone or take the intentional safety? Navy's up and Army had no timeouts. Navy punted and it worked out, but just curious as to what you all thought In HS, no-brainer: Safety. I think it depends a bit on the opponents kicker wouldn't it? I have seen several HS kickers with every bit the distance and accuracy of college kickers. Unless you think it is a no brainer for some other reason. |
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Post by fantom on Dec 12, 2015 18:10:25 GMT -6
In HS, no-brainer: Safety. I think it depends a bit on the opponents kicker wouldn't it? I have seen several HS kickers with every bit the distance and accuracy of college kickers. Unless you think it is a no brainer for some other reason. Most aren't. "No-brainer" may have been overstating the case. Of course we'd consider the ability of the kicker. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 12, 2015 18:16:52 GMT -6
I think it depends a bit on the opponents kicker wouldn't it? I have seen several HS kickers with every bit the distance and accuracy of college kickers. Unless you think it is a no brainer for some other reason. Most aren't. "No-brainer" may have been overstating the case. Of course we'd consider the ability of the kicker. I understand. I was just checking to see if there was something else I wasn't considering other than the quality of kicker, punt protection issues etc. |
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Post by agap on Dec 12, 2015 21:54:44 GMT -6
How about Army's double pass with 2 minutes to go as they were driving?
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jmg999
Junior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by jmg999 on Dec 12, 2015 23:20:47 GMT -6
How about Army's double pass with 2 minutes to go as they were driving? I don't usually like to question those who know light years more than me, but I thought that that call was terrible. Army was moving the ball, and trying to force it there was really questionable. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 12, 2015 23:28:48 GMT -6
That's the thing with "trick" plays. The call is almost universally judged by the outcome. Had it hit big, it would have been unexpected and brilliant.
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Post by td4tc on Dec 12, 2015 23:35:27 GMT -6
Agree. would have been a genius if it worked. Didn't mind the call on 2nd and 4 but the patterns were $hitty. Like to have a double post on trick plays like that where the receiver is throwing it. Easier throw and if the first guy isn't open the second post behind him always is. Not sure if they had run any quick WR screens to set that up cause D wasn't fooled even though the Oline did a good job of sliding making it look like it could be a WR screen.
If the kicker makes the chip shot FG they don't have to go for the TD in the first place.Why we love the game.
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Army/Navy
Dec 13, 2015 4:55:03 GMT -6
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Dec 13, 2015 4:55:03 GMT -6
Most aren't. "No-brainer" may have been overstating the case. Of course we'd consider the ability of the kicker. I understand. I was just checking to see if there was something else I wasn't considering other than the quality of kicker, punt protection issues etc. You will run at least 2 seconds off the clock before the safety So 12 seconds left Free kick time, either kick off or punt. Now the question I have is can u fair catch if they line up and punt the kick? If so can they then ask for a free kick and try a field goal? Or is that only in regular punts only? So let's say u can't, the kick should then take off at least 2 more seconds if they don't fair catch So now there is 10 seconds left. Can you get in field goal range in 10 seconds? I know our kicker this year if he gets off a good one would kick it down to the 20-15 yard line. So if they attempt a return your looking at it being maybe only 8 seconds left instead of 10 or possibly less. |
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Post by ahall005 on Dec 13, 2015 8:35:08 GMT -6
I know its a BIG if but If army had the block on we might have seen another Michigan State - Michigan situation with navy's punter bobbling the snap
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Post by s73 on Dec 13, 2015 8:41:26 GMT -6
How about Army's double pass with 2 minutes to go as they were driving? I don't usually like to question those who know light years more than me, but I thought that that call was terrible. Army was moving the ball, and trying to force it there was really questionable. IMO, the "streak" probably played a role in the play call. I'm sure in the back of their minds they are thinking the more plays they run the more chance they screw something up so why not just go for it. JMO. |
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Post by morris on Dec 13, 2015 8:58:06 GMT -6
I understand. I was just checking to see if there was something else I wasn't considering other than the quality of kicker, punt protection issues etc. You will run at least 2 seconds off the clock before the safety So 12 seconds left Free kick time, either kick off or punt. Now the question I have is can u fair catch if they line up and punt the kick? If so can they then ask for a free kick and try a field goal? Or is that only in regular punts only? So let's say u can't, the kick should then take off at least 2 more seconds if they don't fair catch So now there is 10 seconds left. Can you get in field goal range in 10 seconds? I know our kicker this year if he gets off a good one would kick it down to the 20-15 yard line. So if they attempt a return your looking at it being maybe only 8 seconds left instead of 10 or possibly less. I'm pretty sure you can fair catch on any free kick. |
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Post by Chris Clement on Dec 13, 2015 9:48:32 GMT -6
Yeah but they wouldn't be in field goal range if they called for a fair catch.
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Post by morris on Dec 13, 2015 10:09:14 GMT -6
No but it would save time on the clock. I think that was part of the question. I'm happy this came up to use as an example to players on when we might take a safety. There are of course factors like how good is the FG kicker and how good the returner is. It is also a time to go over you hold the crap out of that other team. You get a chance to get the kick off. More time might run off the clock and if you get the penalty it's a safety. I've heard of teams holding to get the penalty and to run off clock.
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Army/Navy
Dec 13, 2015 10:36:24 GMT -6
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Dec 13, 2015 10:36:24 GMT -6
You will run at least 2 seconds off the clock before the safety So 12 seconds left Free kick time, either kick off or punt. Now the question I have is can u fair catch if they line up and punt the kick? If so can they then ask for a free kick and try a field goal? Or is that only in regular punts only? So let's say u can't, the kick should then take off at least 2 more seconds if they don't fair catch So now there is 10 seconds left. Can you get in field goal range in 10 seconds? I know our kicker this year if he gets off a good one would kick it down to the 20-15 yard line. So if they attempt a return your looking at it being maybe only 8 seconds left instead of 10 or possibly less. I'm pretty sure you can fair catch on any free kick. I know u can fair catch any kick What I want to know is, can u call for a fair catch and then line up for a free kick field goal off the kickoff tee? In that situation I know u can on a regular punt , but can u do it after the safety free kick |
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Army/Navy
Dec 13, 2015 10:39:08 GMT -6
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Dec 13, 2015 10:39:08 GMT -6
And what I meant by our kicker 15-20 yard line, that is kicking from the 25 after the safety
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Army/Navy
Dec 13, 2015 10:51:27 GMT -6
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Post by hunhdisciple on Dec 13, 2015 10:51:27 GMT -6
I would strongly consider taking a safety. Roll the punter to a corner and then have him step out. You'll run off several seconds.
The quality of your special teams is the biggest factor in this, however. But, I think the only time I punt it without question, would be if I had top level protection and coverage and a great punter.
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Post by Chris Clement on Dec 13, 2015 11:03:29 GMT -6
I'm pretty sure you can fair catch on any free kick. I know u can fair catch any kick What I want to know is, can u call for a fair catch and then line up for a free kick field goal off the kickoff tee? In that situation I know u can on a regular punt , but can u do it after the safety free kick Yes, but you won't be in field goal range. |
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Post by spos21ram on Dec 13, 2015 12:08:06 GMT -6
In that situation in that game I punt it away. I know there's a chance for a block, but as long as the punt gets off there's no way Army was putting together a TD drive.
I think in that game, the odds favored getting the punt off and make army score a TD were better than taking a safety and set army up with a potential game winning FG.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards
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Army/Navy
Dec 13, 2015 12:15:23 GMT -6
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Dec 13, 2015 12:15:23 GMT -6
I know u can fair catch any kick What I want to know is, can u call for a fair catch and then line up for a free kick field goal off the kickoff tee? In that situation I know u can on a regular punt , but can u do it after the safety free kick Yes, but you won't be in field goal range. High school, off a kickoff tee? If the kickoff or punt is shanked, if the high school kid is only a 35 punter, u will attempt your fieldgoal from the opposite 40, if u have a good kicker and a 10-18 mph wind you are, or if he shanks it 25, u are free kicking off the tee from the 50. |
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Post by Chris Clement on Dec 13, 2015 12:30:34 GMT -6
Ok, IF
He shanks it
You manage to fair catch it
You have a great kicker
You have a heck of a wind at your back
THEN
Maybe you have a chance for the free kick.
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Post by peacock1915 on Dec 13, 2015 15:20:45 GMT -6
We practice a slow safety out of punt, where our punter catches the ball and goes to back of endzone n waits till opponent is close n then steps out. Would have at least considered this in that situation.
The main thing I didn't like about the trick play was they were in empty so Navy knew something was up, plus if they had scored you give Keenan the ball back with just under 2 minutes left and a chance to beat you.
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Post by coachrdc on Dec 13, 2015 19:32:09 GMT -6
We practice a slow safety out of punt, where our punter catches the ball and goes to back of endzone n waits till opponent is close n then steps out. Would have at least considered this in that situation. The main thing I didn't like about the trick play was they were in empty so Navy knew something was up, plus if they had scored you give Keenan the ball back with just under 2 minutes left and a chance to beat you. I don't think that was the first time they had gone out of empty, but I could be wrong. There were a couple of times where I thought both teams got away from what they do well, the trick play was one of them. |
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Post by ithawks on Dec 14, 2015 8:43:48 GMT -6
We have practiced for this situation. We tell out punter to run around in the endzone to take as much time off as possible. We also tell the protection to hold/tackle. If they get called it will result in a safety anyways and may help in taking time off the clock. Can the half end on an offensive penalty?
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Post by veerman on Dec 14, 2015 11:17:10 GMT -6
Ok, IF He shanks it You manage to fair catch it You have a great kicker You have a heck of a wind at your back THEN Maybe you have a chance for the free kick. and even from the your 40 that's still a heck of a kick to get it over the uprights. Not saying it can't be done, but the chances of a successful free kick off a safety kick is about like winning the lottery. |
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Post by John Knight on Dec 14, 2015 11:36:13 GMT -6
Take the safety hard squib kick so no Free Kick on Fair catch option.
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Post by olcoach53 on Dec 14, 2015 11:41:21 GMT -6
Punt it and then hope your opponent throws a double pass that's intercepted by your Free Safety.
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Post by olinedude on Dec 14, 2015 12:18:13 GMT -6
If you hold the crap out of all the defensive guys and put your best athlete at punter and tell him to run around and use as much clock as possible you could easy run 10-12 seconds off the clock. Somebody in the NFL did that a few weeks ago. That would all but put them out of field goal hopes. If you line up for a punt and the punter bobbles it you can always tell him to take a safety, so either way your pretty safe.
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Post by coachfloyd on Dec 14, 2015 12:38:15 GMT -6
We ran the same trick play in one of our games to go up with just a couple of minutes remaining. Hit it for a touchdown and everybody thought I was a genius. If it hadn't of hit, I would have been a fool because we we had already scored 42 the traditional way.
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