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Post by coachmonkey on Dec 6, 2015 22:36:52 GMT -6
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Post by brophy on Dec 7, 2015 6:42:06 GMT -6
Nice effort but a very poorly constructed argument. Its possible to advocate for the game without sounding like a moron. The author, a physician, advocates that kids should, " play football because they'll jump off roofs if they don't, 'cause kids...nothing you can do 'bout dat"This was the position of two University physicians, recommending football be eliminated. www.startribune.com/minnesota-doctors-call-for-removal-of-football-from-public-schools/352464821/Quite frankly, BOTH articles are written like a 3rd grader. The point here should be for advocates of the game to raise the level of discourse, NOT present our interest as one of a shady used car salesman. Identify the root issue (pursue the science of CTE and not run from it) and be champions of improving the game (if the sport is unsafe, we should be the ones making it safer). The more we encourage science to uncover what is going on with concussions, the closer we'll be to the truth. Right now, we have a lot of conjecture that does paint a picture where football collisions correlate to brain trauma. Okay, so is that a fact and how much evidence has been done? What specifically is the cause of these effects (it isn't just throwing/running the ball)?
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Post by chi5hi on Dec 8, 2015 20:17:31 GMT -6
My reply to people who bring up the subject is to ask them...
How many...snow-boarders, skate-boarders, surfers, skiers, BMXers, and playground users, have a coaching staff with regulated practices and the presence of on field trainers?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2015 20:37:21 GMT -6
My reply to people who bring up the subject is to ask them... How many...snow-boarders, skate-boarders, surfers, skiers, BMXers, and playground users, have a coaching staff with regulated practices and the presence of on field trainers? This is attack on football is pure politics. That is why the rush to change the rules is silly. Safety is just the excuse kill the game. The people who are behind could not care less about kids, the safety of kids. The worse case for somebody calling himself a football coach has more concern for the safety of kids than these people.
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Post by spartan on Dec 8, 2015 22:07:00 GMT -6
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Post by brophy on Dec 8, 2015 22:44:11 GMT -6
excellent article. I reserve the right to be absolutely wrong later, but there is a world of difference between the hits a 15 year old takes in a game takes, a 23 year old kid takes in DIII ball, and a career in the NFL. This is really like comparing a prop plane pilot vs a jet pilot vs an astronaut. They all are flyers, but are not subjected to the same stimulus / environment. Just because they advance in the field based on an increasing set of criteria, doesn't mean the parallels remain consistent (a collision with a player of equal size does not produce the same relative force to the body). The mass/force generated by high school athletes is largely within the realm that the human body can adapt itself to. The mass/force and frequency that can be generated in an arena played with (super) humans is easily beyond which the fragile human body can ever account for The problem we are facing has a legion of nuances that it is important to identify, isolate and address or have the whole thing come crashing down on us. The EMOTION of NFL fandom is real to most football fans. That "tangible" emotion is interpreted as TRUTH to people who do not slow things down and examine an issue objectively. "when I think football, I think the HOMETOWN SPARTANS of 'The League'....so naturally, the SPARTANS are football" (I cannot separate the two). The problem with that thinking is that the NFL does not represent the sport of football. The NFL has business interests, and where there is business there is money. Where there is money, there is a legal factor. Where there is a legal factor, there is liability between parties involved.....ad infinitum. The root of the issue is a physical sport played by TEAMS, running, blocking, tackling, kicking and throwing. THAT should be where we focus our energy and look to how we can play this game safely and effectively.
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Post by fantom on Dec 8, 2015 22:53:31 GMT -6
excellent article. I reserve the right to be absolutely wrong later, but there is a world of difference between the hits a 15 year old takes in a game takes, a 23 year old kid takes in DIII ball, and a career in the NFL. This is really like comparing a prop plane pilot vs a jet pilot vs an astronaut. They all are flyers, but are not subjected to the same stimulus / environment. Just because they advance in the field based on an increasing set of criteria, doesn't mean the parallels remain consistent (a collision with a player of equal size does not produce the same relative force to the body). The mass/force generated by high school athletes is largely within the realm that the human body can adapt itself to. The mass/force and frequency that can be generated in an arena played with (super) humans is easily beyond which the fragile human body can ever account for The problem we are facing has a legion of nuances that it is important to identify, isolate and address or have the whole thing come crashing down on us. The EMOTION of NFL fandom is real to most football fans. That "tangible" emotion is interpreted as TRUTH to people who do not slow things down and examine an issue objectively. "when I think football, I think the HOMETOWN SPARTANS of 'The League'....so naturally, the SPARTANS are football" (I cannot separate the two). The problem with that thinking is that the NFL does not represent the sport of football. The NFL has business interests, and where there is business there is money. Where there is money, there is a legal factor. Where there is a legal factor, there is liability between parties involved.....ad infinitum. The root of the issue is a physical sport played by TEAMS, running, blocking, tackling, kicking and throwing. THAT should be where we focus our energy and look to how we can play this game safely and effectively. Another part of OUR problem is that part of the NFL's defense was, "Wait a minute. How do we know that that didn't happen in high school?".
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Post by WingTheT on Dec 9, 2015 10:47:03 GMT -6
"My son can't play anymore football. Football bad, injury = concussions."
Sincerely,
- Parents who has the communication/grammar skills of my 4 year old niece.
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Post by coachiron on Dec 9, 2015 16:27:51 GMT -6
We all need to make sure that information like this is shared out with the public. Thank you Spartan for sharing, I will try to pass this along was well.
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Post by coachiron on Dec 9, 2015 16:29:44 GMT -6
excellent article. I reserve the right to be absolutely wrong later, but there is a world of difference between the hits a 15 year old takes in a game takes, a 23 year old kid takes in DIII ball, and a career in the NFL. This is really like comparing a prop plane pilot vs a jet pilot vs an astronaut. They all are flyers, but are not subjected to the same stimulus / environment. Just because they advance in the field based on an increasing set of criteria, doesn't mean the parallels remain consistent (a collision with a player of equal size does not produce the same relative force to the body). The mass/force generated by high school athletes is largely within the realm that the human body can adapt itself to. The mass/force and frequency that can be generated in an arena played with (super) humans is easily beyond which the fragile human body can ever account for The problem we are facing has a legion of nuances that it is important to identify, isolate and address or have the whole thing come crashing down on us. The EMOTION of NFL fandom is real to most football fans. That "tangible" emotion is interpreted as TRUTH to people who do not slow things down and examine an issue objectively. "when I think football, I think the HOMETOWN SPARTANS of 'The League'....so naturally, the SPARTANS are football" (I cannot separate the two). The problem with that thinking is that the NFL does not represent the sport of football. The NFL has business interests, and where there is business there is money. Where there is money, there is a legal factor. Where there is a legal factor, there is liability between parties involved.....ad infinitum. The root of the issue is a physical sport played by TEAMS, running, blocking, tackling, kicking and throwing. THAT should be where we focus our energy and look to how we can play this game safely and effectively. Brophy, right on. I love your "pilot" analogy.
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Post by coachiron on Dec 9, 2015 16:32:41 GMT -6
excellent article. I reserve the right to be absolutely wrong later, but there is a world of difference between the hits a 15 year old takes in a game takes, a 23 year old kid takes in DIII ball, and a career in the NFL. This is really like comparing a prop plane pilot vs a jet pilot vs an astronaut. They all are flyers, but are not subjected to the same stimulus / environment. Just because they advance in the field based on an increasing set of criteria, doesn't mean the parallels remain consistent (a collision with a player of equal size does not produce the same relative force to the body). The mass/force generated by high school athletes is largely within the realm that the human body can adapt itself to. The mass/force and frequency that can be generated in an arena played with (super) humans is easily beyond which the fragile human body can ever account for The problem we are facing has a legion of nuances that it is important to identify, isolate and address or have the whole thing come crashing down on us. The EMOTION of NFL fandom is real to most football fans. That "tangible" emotion is interpreted as TRUTH to people who do not slow things down and examine an issue objectively. "when I think football, I think the HOMETOWN SPARTANS of 'The League'....so naturally, the SPARTANS are football" (I cannot separate the two). The problem with that thinking is that the NFL does not represent the sport of football. The NFL has business interests, and where there is business there is money. Where there is money, there is a legal factor. Where there is a legal factor, there is liability between parties involved.....ad infinitum. The root of the issue is a physical sport played by TEAMS, running, blocking, tackling, kicking and throwing. THAT should be where we focus our energy and look to how we can play this game safely and effectively. Another part of OUR problem is that part of the NFL's defense was, "Wait a minute. How do we know that that didn't happen in high school?". "Wait a minute. How do we know that that didn't happen in high school?". Which is exactly the statement that had the potential to kill NFL football in 10+ years after every Mom in America pushes their kid away from even watching football.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2015 17:00:35 GMT -6
These attacks are coming from the same people who feed kids these god awful school lunches. The same people who claim our kids are obese, but in the same heart beat claim that PE is to stressful for kids. This is not a safety issue. It is a political issue. Safety is just the vehichle the politicians are using to attack the sport.
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Post by chi5hi on Dec 9, 2015 18:39:58 GMT -6
Yeah...someone's going to try and figure out a way to tax the sport.
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Post by 42falcon on Dec 9, 2015 20:57:25 GMT -6
"My son can't play anymore football. Football bad, injury = concussions." Sincerely, - Parents who has the communication/grammar skills of my 4 year old niece. We as coaches are going to get this argument from parents written poorly or not doesn't make a difference. The question(s) remains: 1) what are you doing to make it safer? 2) how do you know your actions make it safer? 3) what are you using to measure safety? I have posted before about our protocol that we have in place. We have done the baseline testing /impact sensor in every hat / iPad / athletic therapist thing since 2013. We have since measured every impact game or practice on every kid. In turn we have tracked this and compared the data. It has resulted in a change to HOW we practice & HOW we teach tackling. That being said kids still get concussions, all be it far fewer & they are out far less time because we catch them earlier. I stand by it there are kids playing our game getting concussions that are not diagnosed because the symptoms are so minor they go undetected until the hits accumulate & Johnny has a severe concussion when in reality he's had one for a few weeks but the continued exposure to impact has compounded the injury. The only answer to this issue is: 1) make the game safer A) equipment gets better B) coaching gets better / changes to meet the realities of the game C) we find effective ways of measuring safety & wellbeing of athletes
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Post by funkfriss on Dec 10, 2015 11:53:52 GMT -6
Once people have formed an opinion it is extremely difficult to change it. This is why coaches scoff at the call to end football and moms are quicker to yank Johnny from football. If you already have beliefs that the game is dangerous you fuel your fire with this new "evidence." You'll look past the American Pediatric Society's recommendations (perhaps b/c you are also anti-establishment) and go all-in backing the theories of two doctors from Minnesota. It's also about association. Notice the high profile guys who have quit football? They are intellectual guys who associate themselves as more than just a tough, rugged football player. It's also why it would be rare to find a coach who wouldn't let his son play while moms are more prone to be against it. Just a guess, but even though Wes Welker has had like 28 concussions I would bet he would be fine with his kid playing. He takes pride in his image as the tough, little underdog. I don't offer much of an answer, just pointing out we are fighting a long, steep battle. As more disassociate themselves from football so too will those they influence including their kids. More research needs to be done and many, many more informed studies and articles such as the one presented by spartan will be needed to dispel the growing case against football.
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Post by blb on Dec 10, 2015 13:11:38 GMT -6
Our state association released data today stating approximately four (4) percent of HS kids who played Football in our state last Fall suffered concussions. www.mhsaa.com
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2015 13:36:59 GMT -6
Our state association released data today stating approximately four (4) percent of HS kids who played Football in our state last Fall suffered concussions. www.mhsaa.comShut it down! Us evil coaches are killing kids?
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Post by coachmonkey on Dec 11, 2015 14:33:57 GMT -6
excellent article. I reserve the right to be absolutely wrong later, but there is a world of difference between the hits a 15 year old takes in a game takes, a 23 year old kid takes in DIII ball, and a career in the NFL. This is really like comparing a prop plane pilot vs a jet pilot vs an astronaut. They all are flyers, but are not subjected to the same stimulus / environment. Just because they advance in the field based on an increasing set of criteria, doesn't mean the parallels remain consistent (a collision with a player of equal size does not produce the same relative force to the body). The mass/force generated by high school athletes is largely within the realm that the human body can adapt itself to. The mass/force and frequency that can be generated in an arena played with (super) humans is easily beyond which the fragile human body can ever account for The problem we are facing has a legion of nuances that it is important to identify, isolate and address or have the whole thing come crashing down on us. The EMOTION of NFL fandom is real to most football fans. That "tangible" emotion is interpreted as TRUTH to people who do not slow things down and examine an issue objectively. "when I think football, I think the HOMETOWN SPARTANS of 'The League'....so naturally, the SPARTANS are football" (I cannot separate the two). The problem with that thinking is that the NFL does not represent the sport of football. The NFL has business interests, and where there is business there is money. Where there is money, there is a legal factor. Where there is a legal factor, there is liability between parties involved.....ad infinitum. The root of the issue is a physical sport played by TEAMS, running, blocking, tackling, kicking and throwing. THAT should be where we focus our energy and look to how we can play this game safely and effectively. Or the use of performance enhancing drugs (HGH in Seau's case which he tested positive for), alcohol, narcotics etc.
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Post by coachmonkey on Dec 11, 2015 14:34:21 GMT -6
Our state association released data today stating approximately four (4) percent of HS kids who played Football in our state last Fall suffered concussions. www.mhsaa.comHow does this compare to years past?
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Post by blb on Dec 11, 2015 15:13:06 GMT -6
Our state association released data today stating approximately four (4) percent of HS kids who played Football in our state last Fall suffered concussions. www.mhsaa.comHow does this compare to years past?
First year MHSAA has done it.
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Post by brophy on Dec 11, 2015 15:38:13 GMT -6
Or the use of performance enhancing drugs (HGH in Seau's case which he tested positive for), alcohol, narcotics etc. eh....wut are you talking about? www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/Celebs/seau,%20junior_report.pdf
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