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Post by coachbw on Dec 5, 2015 17:08:07 GMT -6
Just some things that I have been pondering this week because of job I am looking at in the area that has the numbers to platoon, but may not have the talent to beat teams on both sides of the ball. I am wondering if there are ways that you guys are working the platoon system to be very good on one side of the ball and try not to lose on the other side of the ball. How are you balancing the needs of your offense and defense. Do you sit down prior to the year and in essence draft offensive and defensive players? Does your style of offense or defense come into play when deciding where the players go? For example, if you run an offense with a lot of double teaming or optioning of defenders at the point of attack do you then tend to give the bigger bodies to the defensive side of the ball?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 17:49:46 GMT -6
We don't fully platoon, but the best teams I've been a part of, including where I'm at now, will 2 platoon the OL, QBs, and coaching staff. That helps you get many of the same benefits, even if you have to play your fast kids both ways. We also make sure to sub those kids out and give them a rest on offense so their backups don't get you beat on defense.
I don't think the style of offense is as big of a deal if you do this. At the first school I was at that did this, we were a spread Jet team that threw the ball 35 times a game. At the school I'm at now, we are a shotgun Wing-T type of thing that emphasizes defense and grinds it out in the ground to help them out.
One way I've looked at it is to have the offense pick the QB and C as offense-only players. Then the defense gets to pick the next best 11 as their starters. Offense gets to pick 9 more from what's left--if there aren't 9 more serviceable ones or if some of the kids on defense are so good they NEED to play both ways, then they get to play some offense. The backups then get cross trained for both and you work out rotations to get them in there and give the 2 way players a rest.
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Post by groundchuck on Dec 5, 2015 21:23:58 GMT -6
You have to be very organized and have the whole staff bought into the mindset. Your players need to buy in too.
We didn't full two platoon but I think with the exception of C, QB, and main ball carrier you have to give priority to the defense.
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Post by piratefootball on Dec 6, 2015 12:03:45 GMT -6
I have been a part of some really good programs over the last 20 years and we have done it exactly as Coach Arnold suggested. This also allows you to play many starters on special teams, limited for those that do go both ways unless they are return guys. It is VERY rare we allow a lineman to go both ways (possibly bring in for a "specialty package").
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Post by fantom on Dec 6, 2015 12:13:11 GMT -6
I have been a part of some really good programs over the last 20 years and we have done it exactly as Coach Arnold suggested. This also allows you to play many starters on special teams, limited for those that do go both ways unless they are return guys. It is VERY rare we allow a lineman to go both ways (possibly bring in for a "specialty package"). It can lead to some hard staff meetings but you have to have them. You have to decide where you NEED them the most, not where you want them.
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Post by blb on Dec 6, 2015 12:44:17 GMT -6
I have been a part of some really good programs over the last 20 years and we have done it exactly as Coach Arnold suggested. This also allows you to play many starters on special teams, limited for those that do go both ways unless they are return guys. It is VERY rare we allow a lineman to go both ways (possibly bring in for a "specialty package"). It can lead to some hard staff meetings but you have to have them. You have to decide where you NEED them the most, not where you want them.
This is why philosophically you have to be rock solid on what you believe in and don't compromise.
To me it was Defense, Kicking Game, then do what we could on Offense.
Given my druthers I wouldn't want our OL starting both ways, but that wasn't always possible.
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Post by mrjvi on Dec 6, 2015 13:13:11 GMT -6
A school in our division this season was 2 platooning almost everyone. They started off 0-3. They then started playing all of their best players on o and d and made a run to the regionals right before the state championship. Very different team after that change. Sometimes you just can't 2 platoon. We 2 platooned all but 1 to a state championship in 2013. The following year we lost in the state final and played almost all on both sides. Had to. Depends on your personnel each year in my opinion.
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Post by fantom on Dec 6, 2015 13:16:57 GMT -6
A school in our division this season was 2 platooning almost everyone. They started off 0-3. They then started playing all of their best players on o and d and made a run to the regionals right before the state championship. Very different team after that change. Sometimes you just can't 2 platoon. We 2 platooned all but 1 to a state championship in 2013. The following year we lost in the state final and played almost all on both sides. Had to. Depends on your personnel each year in my opinion. I love basketball players. They don't get tired.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Dec 6, 2015 13:58:58 GMT -6
We usually have 1 lineman who plays full time on one side and about half the time on the other side. This year we had a combination of not being very deep on the line but having 3 very talented guys so we did it with 3 guys this year. One was a full time nose who played some OL, one was a full time DE who split time at guard, one was a full time TE who played some DE. 2 of those guys are D1, just too talented to not get on the field on both sides where we could. If we had a decent lead they didn't play much of their "secondary" position.
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Post by hunhdisciple on Dec 6, 2015 22:01:06 GMT -6
We were able to platoon almost everybody. We had an OL/DL and WR/DB who went both ways, but both are in outstanding shape, so they didn't mind.
We were lucky enough that most of our situations worked out to where the better person started at a certain spot.
I think you have to play the best person, but if you're grading them and one is a B+ and another is a B-, and playing the B- helps to platoon, then you do that.
If the dropout isn't severe, I always say platoon. Especially if teams you play can't, because fresh legs are always nice.
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Post by piratefootball on Dec 7, 2015 9:00:32 GMT -6
An additional benefit of platooning as many as you can is the reduced wear and tear on the player and the increased depth. We have never truely 2 platooned but we have been very careful about how much we pound our linemen and playing them on both sides full time was not worth the risk in our opinion (not that it is wrong in some cases).
We actually had a kid go to Ohio State to play DL (starter for 2 years) who was an all-American wrestler in HS (great work ethic and endurance) and he could only play full time defense and part time OL before his productivity dropped below his back-ups. Part of this is because the back-up's quality of play improved as the season went on but I believe that was because of the game reps he received.
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Post by brophy on Dec 7, 2015 10:19:35 GMT -6
for one, you don't dabble in platooning and you'll never "have numbers" to justify it at first because PLATOONING is about developing a grade 8 - 12 program, not a single-season team brophyfootball.blogspot.com/2009/11/treatise-on-platooning.htmlPlatooning means you devote all of your varsity practice to one side of the ball. Will 2-3 kids make such an impact that they can play both O&D? yes...those are exceptions. When you START platooning, your best bet would be to select a leader, a Quarterback, for the offense then put the next best 11 defenders devoted to the defense. Fill in the offense with whoever is left.
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Post by funkfriss on Dec 7, 2015 10:59:40 GMT -6
BINGO! I am not a big fan of JH teams that play 13 out of 25 kids to try to win games. The best teams in our area are also the ones who don't win every JH game. They do, however, get most of their kids on the field. Platooning starts there and moves on up. I think you may naturally lose some platooning on the way up as a few of the best players HAVE to play both ways, but teams that say they can't platoon are ones who haven't developed their players along the way. We're a school with 12-15 kids per class and I still feel we can platoon year-in, year-out. Now, to answer the OP, my non-negotiables are in the following order (meaning the best kids play in these positions regardless) 1. QB 2. BOW (Best Offensive Weapon regardless of position) 3. Middle of the Defense (MLB, DT) 4. Next Best Defensive Playmaker (regardless of position...varies year-to-year) After that, Offense and Defense drafts from there...literally. 90% of our players will play both ways at some point in the season, but only a few will start both ways. In a perfect world we would have 22 starters, but some kids are too good to keep off the field and some positions have a wide drop in talent from the #1s to #2s. Some Varsity kids will stay on one side of the ball the entire year b/c they simply don't fit anywhere on the other side of the ball (usually QBs and some LBs). I don't need 7 backup running backs or receivers. If you are anything after the #4/5 RB or WR you will be solely a defensive player which means you get double practice reps on all defensive drills which will in theory make you better at your position. Also agree with playing best kids on Special Teams. They should be fresher and frankly our philosophy is opposite of most teams we play against who play backups and underclassmen predominantly.
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Post by coachbw on Dec 7, 2015 11:38:58 GMT -6
for one, you don't dabble in platooning and you'll never "have numbers" to justify it at first because PLATOONING is about developing a grade 8 - 12 program, not a single-season team brophyfootball.blogspot.com/2009/11/treatise-on-platooning.htmlPlatooning means you devote all of your varsity practice to one side of the ball. Will 2-3 kids make such an impact that they can play both O&D? yes...those are exceptions. When you START platooning, your best bet would be to select a leader, a Quarterback, for the offense then put the next best 11 defenders devoted to the defense. Fill in the offense with whoever is left. Thanks coach, this is a great read!
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Post by chi5hi on Dec 8, 2015 2:11:22 GMT -6
Just some things that I have been pondering this week because of job I am looking at in the area that has the numbers to platoon, but may not have the talent to beat teams on both sides of the ball. I am wondering if there are ways that you guys are working the platoon system to be very good on one side of the ball and try not to lose on the other side of the ball. How are you balancing the needs of your offense and defense. Do you sit down prior to the year and in essence draft offensive and defensive players? Does your style of offense or defense come into play when deciding where the players go? For example, if you run an offense with a lot of double teaming or optioning of defenders at the point of attack do you then tend to give the bigger bodies to the defensive side of the ball? Don't THINK about...or CONSIDER platooning...either decide to do it, or dump the idea. First, get the staff onboard. Start in the Spring by telling the players to begin to decide for themselves which side of the ball they want to play. ***of course, the coaches have the final decisions on this. Some kids know exactly the position they want...some only know they want to play Offense or Defense...some will tell you they just want to get on the field...somewhere. (I like those guys!) Mention it all during Spring and Summer...keep THEM thinking about it! Separate them into offensive teams and defensive teams and build your defense FIRST. Meanwhile, and this is important...tell them that it is a privilege to be INVITED to try out for Special Teams...that if they're invited to play there, they are some of the most important players on the field. Some will be your scout D and some will come from your scout O...but all of them consider themselves as starters. IMO, if you've got the numbers its the thing to do. Field your defense first, then your offense. Defense gets priority.
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Post by mholst40 on Dec 8, 2015 10:21:25 GMT -6
You must have program buy-in from the lower levels because that is what builds your numbers and makes platooning easier at the Varsity level. I'd rather lose at the lower levels and develop kids for varsity than to try and win freshman championships.
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Post by ogre5530 on Dec 8, 2015 13:13:01 GMT -6
We don't fully platoon, but the best teams I've been a part of, including where I'm at now, will 2 platoon the OL, QBs, and coaching staff. That helps you get many of the same benefits, even if you have to play your fast kids both ways. We also make sure to sub those kids out and give them a rest on offense so their backups don't get you beat on defense. I don't think the style of offense is as big of a deal if you do this. At the first school I was at that did this, we were a spread Jet team that threw the ball 35 times a game. At the school I'm at now, we are a shotgun Wing-T type of thing that emphasizes defense and grinds it out in the ground to help them out. One way I've looked at it is to have the offense pick the QB and C as offense-only players. Then the defense gets to pick the next best 11 as their starters. Offense gets to pick 9 more from what's left--if there aren't 9 more serviceable ones or if some of the kids on defense are so good they NEED to play both ways, then they get to play some offense. The backups then get cross trained for both and you work out rotations to get them in there and give the 2 way players a rest. We did this this past season. We picked out QB and C first and let defense have the rest. It was our first year attempting to platoon a lot of our guys. We improved quite a bit and were very competitive. In the past we weren't two platoon and we struggled quite a bit!
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