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Post by craines10 on Nov 17, 2015 11:36:24 GMT -6
In my opinion you are either Offensive minded or Defensive minded...there is no such thing as both. Am I wrong for this thought process?
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Post by spos21ram on Nov 17, 2015 12:15:24 GMT -6
I think you can be both, but it's also normal to know more about certain things than others.
I also think "offensive/ defensive minded" is more ESPN and announcer talk. The analysts will say Meyer is an O mind, Saban and Belichick D minds,etc....I'm pretty sure these guys have an exceptional understanding of all aspects of coaching football. If Spurrier became a HS HC tomorrow, I'm confident he would be seen as a complete coach, not just an offensive specialist. He probably knows more about Defense than most of this board.
Personally I've always considered myself an Offensive coach, but I've primarily been defensive the last couple years. Now I'd say I'm pretty balanced.
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Post by craines10 on Nov 17, 2015 13:09:57 GMT -6
Makes sense..but those guys made a name for themselves on a specific side of the ball and they specialize in developing a certain position...Spurrier: QBs, Meyer: WR, Saban: DBs, Belichick: LBs...you see what I'm saying..
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Post by spos21ram on Nov 17, 2015 13:29:43 GMT -6
And that's really what the terms mean. It's what someone is known for. Just don't think the term should hamstring them.
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Post by John Knight on Nov 17, 2015 13:33:42 GMT -6
Have someone diagram a play for you, it is very easy to tell which way they roll.
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Post by coachwilliams2 on Nov 17, 2015 14:22:17 GMT -6
Have someone diagram a play for you, it is very easy to tell which way they roll. What if they ask if you are looking for an offensive or defensive perspective? I have been an OC, STC, and offensive position coach/player my whole life. Last few years I have been on the defensive side and have ambition to be a DC and one day a HC. I draw it up depending on who I am talking to and what we are talking about. Does that make me weird?
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Post by coachklee on Nov 17, 2015 14:54:28 GMT -6
If you are any good, you are BOTH.
A great defensive coordinator knows... 1 - what the offense is trying to do with their base plays and formations 2 - how to use their defense to take away those plays out of those formations 3 - the likely "constraints" the offense will use to try and take advantage of any defenses weaknesses
A great offensive coordinator knows... 1 - how the defense will be trying to defend their base plays and formations 2 - how to use their own offense to adjust either their plays or use different formations 3 - have enough "constraints" that take advantage of certain defensive players over playing base plays
With all that said, I would consider myself slightly more offensive minded in that I'm always convinced that my OL will always get everyone blocked up and we should score everytime and at the same time when I'm gameplanning as a DC I'm always very concerned about making sure we get an extra to the POA because I'm worried the offense will get everyone blocked up meaning that we will need an extra so all of my thinking is driven by how the offense will be attacking the defense.
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Post by agap on Nov 17, 2015 15:09:41 GMT -6
You have to know and understand the other side of the ball to either stop them or move the ball on them. I'm defensive-minded, but I also understand offense otherwise I wouldn't have a clue how to stop teams. Same if someone is offensive-minded, they have to understand defense to be able to move the ball and make adjustments.
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Nov 17, 2015 15:33:48 GMT -6
U can be both I was a dc for my first 10 years coaching Last 5 I've been on the offensive side as oc or a position coach
I know being a dc first has helped me set up plays and knowing what I hated to defend
Which is any double tight
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Post by coachphillip on Nov 17, 2015 15:48:43 GMT -6
But does anybody here not have a preference either way? I played OL and coached OL almost every year, but I LOVE defense. That's where my passion is. Do any of you guys have equal amounts of passion for both sides?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2015 19:10:57 GMT -6
I love both sides.
As a player, I played DL almost exclusively. As a coach, I've been an OC and I've spent half my career coaching the lines on both sides at the same time. I would have had the title of DC this past year if I'd stayed where I was.
I think that most of the stuff this question is referring to is ESPN B.S., but at the same time, those coaches mentioned earlier are thought of as offensive or defensive gurus because they've devoted their careers to focusing on coaching up those respective positions and coordinating that side of the ball. It's not that you just naturally are one or the other intrinsically: your experiences shape where you wind up.
Heck, I've seen idiot fans say they want "an offensive minded coach" like Bob Stoops, Bill Belichek, or Pete Carroll--completely ignorant of the fact that those guys rose through the ranks as defensive coaches. They just see teams scoring points and assume the HC must be some offensive genius.
That said, I've noticed that the experience from focusing on one side of the ball tends to influence the way that coordinators run things when they become HCs. Former DCs tend to be more conservative and favor running the ball, killing the clock, and playing field position on offense so the defense doesn't get put in a bind.. Former OCs tend to want their defenses to blitz more and run more fronts and coverages. Both will be more inclined to run the stuff on the other side of the ball that gave them fits as coordinators because it gave them fits.
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Post by dytmook on Nov 17, 2015 19:19:33 GMT -6
I consider myself offensive because that's where I coach, but I like to sit with the defense at times to learn what gives them issues, what they worry about, and how they attack certain looks. They also like that I'll give them a more offensive perspective on a defensive look. I think you have to at least know the basics of both to coach. If you just focus on your group you'll never get anywhere like the WR coach who wants to throw ball deep when the line can block for any time at all. I'm still mad at him.
Had a buddy offer me a job coaching linebackers and I told him that I know nothing about coaching them. He said you know offense right? Then you can coach a defense position since you know what offense is trying to do.
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Post by coachfloyd on Nov 17, 2015 19:46:40 GMT -6
Have someone diagram a play for you, it is very easy to tell which way they roll. Yep see if they draw it upside down!
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Post by dubber on Nov 17, 2015 19:55:52 GMT -6
The longer you coach, the more balanced you'll become (if you are trying to get better).
When you start, the other X's don't move.
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Post by racehorse on Nov 17, 2015 20:00:34 GMT -6
I am a defensive guy. I've coached defensive line, LB's, DB's, and been a DC. I thoroughly enjoy designing defensive schemes to combat all sorts of offenses, but in my spare time I enjoy dabbling at developing an offense that gives defenses fits. Armed with defensive knowledge, I feel that I can put together a complete offense to make DC's pull their hair out. Now, I'm not so well versed offensively to know the exact steps a RB should take on fakes or perfect stance and release of a receiver, but I can develop a solid scheme. I think the best OC's and DC's will lean on their counterpart for advise. No man is an island, and neither is a coach.
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Post by John Knight on Nov 18, 2015 5:21:48 GMT -6
Drop the pen and step away from the whiteboard, son! You are messing with fire and it could make your FACE MELT!
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Post by groundchuck on Nov 18, 2015 6:06:21 GMT -6
Both. Let's not forget the third phase either.
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Post by rsmith627 on Nov 18, 2015 6:54:59 GMT -6
I think both is possible. I have known guys who have been tremendous coaches on both sides of the ball.
My DC when I played high school ball is now one of the best OCs in the state at the same program.
I'm in a point in my career where I'm way more of an offensive mind. As an OC I can coach any position on that side.
I would not be comfortable if tomorrow I was told I was now the DC. I understand what defenses try to do to shut me down, but I'm not confident that I could teach that at this point.
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Post by blb on Nov 18, 2015 7:01:11 GMT -6
My first two years coaching I worked with RBs and kickers, helped with DBs.
Our HC then gave me the best advice I've ever gotten: "If you want to be a head coach, you better know Defense."
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Post by jlenwood on Nov 18, 2015 7:07:08 GMT -6
I don't think it is so much of a "offense or defense" mind set, as it is a skill set. To the guys who seem to be a great DC, and then they switch to the offensive side, it is actually more of a skill set of being analytical/disciplined/intelligent or whatever other word you would use to describe their skills.
If you are a crappy D position coach, chances are you will be a crappy O coach as well. But to the guys who excel at one phase of the game, if another job came open where they could advance their career, but it was on the other side of the ball, you make the change and dive into that side of the game as you did the other.
"Posted by craines1017 hours ago
Makes sense..but those guys made a name for themselves on a specific side of the ball and they specialize in developing a certain position...Spurrier: QBs, Meyer: WR, Saban: DBs, Belichick: LBs...you see what I'm saying.. "
This example proves my point. These jobs were where these coaches got their break, but the reality is they were just smart individuals who had a passion to coach and worked their way up from that base of coaching. All of the above mentioned guys could have been kicker coaches for their first gig, and I think they would have still ended up where they are now.
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Post by jsk002 on Nov 18, 2015 7:41:59 GMT -6
I think that some people are drawn to one side of the ball more than the other. There are also some people who have a stronger background on one side of the ball vs the other, but it boils down to either you are a good coach or a bad coach. I good coach should be able to have success coaching either side of the ball or really any position for that matter.
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agame
Junior Member
Posts: 378
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Post by agame on Nov 18, 2015 9:01:12 GMT -6
Only thing I like about defence is how can I beat it.....lol #offenserules lol
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Post by coachwoodall on Nov 19, 2015 5:46:31 GMT -6
To be good at one, you have to firmly understand the other
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Post by coachphillip on Nov 19, 2015 8:34:40 GMT -6
I think part of the reason I got burned out the first time around was coaching OL. I love OL. They're generally the best kids to coach because you come across far fewer divas. My OL coach used to say, "Ain't nobody ever thought they wanted attention from the girls and the fans and decided they would get that at left guard." That being said, coaching OL is like trying to wash a dog that doesn't want to get in the water. Then there's the whole "not athletic to tie his own shoes, go to OL." Coaching linebackers is a lot more fun.
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Post by John Knight on Nov 19, 2015 8:38:58 GMT -6
You mean it is like trying to Bath a Cat!
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Post by coachphillip on Nov 19, 2015 8:43:44 GMT -6
You mean it is like trying to Bath a Cat! We've definitely had more "cats" than dogs the last few years. Maybe that was a factor, looking back on it lol.
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Post by veerman on Nov 19, 2015 12:50:24 GMT -6
Have someone diagram a play for you, it is very easy to tell which way they roll. I always make whatever side I'm talking about in bottom going up, cause that's how I see it.
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Post by veerman on Nov 19, 2015 13:28:55 GMT -6
As far as OP question, if say there are just as many both as there are one sided. I'm both, I love the veer offense, but also love the defensive side of the ball.
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 19, 2015 13:56:25 GMT -6
I read the original post different than most. I didn't take it to mean "understands offense, but not defense" or "Knows defense, but not offense" but rather what is your first instinct on "4th and 3 from your own 48" I took it to mean in your gut, are you more comfortable with ball control, field position football or more comfortable trying to just score points regardless as to the effects you choices have on your defense.
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Post by realdawg on Nov 19, 2015 14:31:11 GMT -6
IDK if there is a right or wrong answer for this. But the last few years I have been a DC. As such, I know how to attack defenses if I were calling offense. Again, IDK if that makes me both or not.
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