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Post by tothehouse on Feb 4, 2007 17:12:03 GMT -6
Our HC and myself got into a nice discussion regarding this issue. Our team is known for smash mouth and intimidation by being aggressive. This past season we couldn't intimidate a church mouse.
We feel, a little bit, that we preach great character so much that it is affecting our toughness. It is saying, "you have to be nice to people", etc. and then turn around and make them really get after people.
What is the fine line? I know that I am going to be an a**hole this upcoming because of our lack of toughness. It IS going to change. I am thinking that while we continue to stress character and sportsmanship the players should know that we are going to get into their face in regards to playing "our" way.
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Post by FlexboneOne on Feb 4, 2007 17:43:14 GMT -6
I'd take a look at your younger programs and see how their coaches are approaching toughness. It will make your job easier if, when they get to you, they already have an idea of what is required of them.
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Post by tothehouse on Feb 4, 2007 18:57:01 GMT -6
Absolutely Flex. I didn't want to be long winded, but that was included in that talk.
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Post by brophy on Feb 4, 2007 19:07:25 GMT -6
character, imo, is separate from "being nice"
Character is "doing what is right".
true character is being competitive and giving your all.....it takes toughness to have character.
You can be "tough" and not have character - but you can't have character without gritting things out.
The "nice kids" thing takes more pressure to make them ugly. People are like tooth paste tubes.....you never know what you've got until you squeeze them. If they aren't intense enough, recondition them.
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Post by fbdoc on Feb 4, 2007 20:47:09 GMT -6
We preach (Christian school) that one of the great things about football is the physical aspect. You bring honor and glory to our program by playing fast, hard, and physical so you can knock the crap out of your opponent "Within the Rules of Football". We tell our kids to play by the rules, to play physical but not dirty (we DO NOT tolerate cheap shots!) and that is how you show your true Character.
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Post by ajreaper on Feb 4, 2007 22:30:42 GMT -6
There is no reason you cannot have both. Being a person of chractor does not mean you are not tough, playing with charactor does not mean you play a "wimpy" version of the game.
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Post by wingman on Feb 4, 2007 23:05:40 GMT -6
We preach character and toughness, who doesn't? None of our guys showboats after catches, tds etc. BUT I always say you need to have a few guys you wouldn't want living next door to you.
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coachaldridge
Sophomore Member
The height of your accomplishments will equal the depth of your convictions. - William F. Scolavino
Posts: 100
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Post by coachaldridge on Feb 4, 2007 23:13:21 GMT -6
What are some ways to build both? These are things that I want our kids to have but right now we don't have much of either and as someone who wants to see a football program, kids, a school and a city change, this is making life not too fun right now. Any great words of wisdom out there?  |
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Post by tothehouse on Feb 4, 2007 23:26:45 GMT -6
Set the bar where you want it and make the players get to the bar. Kids get into a comfort zone. Playing football is out of the normal zone for young people. Time comittments, discipline, hard work, etc. need to be trained. So...it goes back to setting the bar high and making the players get to it.
Then, in reading the other posts about toughness I agree with two trains of thought.
1. Get tough in the weight room. Make workouts tough and make the players go through them the whole way.
2. Practice tough. Make the players hit a lot. Make the players tackle with their head in front, show courage, and learn from it.
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Post by carson101 on Feb 5, 2007 1:48:05 GMT -6
DB, I have seen a change in the program that worries me after being gone the last two yrs and coming back it seems to me that the disipline in transition from frosh to jv changes dramatically in frosh the disipline is taught then falls at the jv level and then you guys have to correct the problem and it winds up being too late in my opionion they get to the varsity level the kids just seem to find a comfort zone of thinking it is a cake walk or the coaches are pushovers i am not trying to make it sound like the job isn't getting done but that the kids get complacent (sp) when the mental and physical disipline falls short at the jv level i'm not saying that the jv staff is the problem but just that the consistancy falls below the level it needs to be...constant intensity is needed so that all levels succeed i.e. coaches, players, peers,ect...
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 164
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Post by tedseay on Feb 5, 2007 2:48:35 GMT -6
We feel, a little bit, that we preach great character so much that it is affecting our toughness. It is saying, "you have to be nice to people", etc. and then turn around and make them really get after people. Coach: To me, the balance you are after can best be taught by telling your kids to deliver the hardest clean tackle they are capable of, a real snotknocker, every time -- and then to give the ballcarrier a hand up from the ground, a pat on the shoulder, and a sincere "good play." I teach my kids to play with "ferocious class." |
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Post by tribepride on Feb 5, 2007 7:59:59 GMT -6
We still tell the kids what we as a staff learned from our former head coach. He always told them that if they were going to have a chance to win they had to "play with a pennies worth of prick." He and now we don't tolerate cheap shots/late hits etc. IMHO they must play with some "prick" if they want to be successful.
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Post by groundchuck on Feb 5, 2007 8:14:51 GMT -6
I agree you can have both character and toughness. In fact I think the more character you have the tougher you might be. If you have character you do right, as brophy said. Sometimes doing right means being one tough SOB. For example Lovie Smith and Tony Dungy are men of character, and no one would argue they are not tough either.
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Post by jjkuenzel on Feb 5, 2007 11:53:04 GMT -6
For me, being tough and having good character are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I am not so sure that a player can have good character without being tough on the football field. On every play, someone else is counting on you to do your job. That trust is needed for one's own safety. Kids get hurt when a teammate of theirs doesn't have the character to nut up and get tough when they have to.
The kid of player who I want on my team is the kid who is a b!tch from whistle to whistle, but also someone who will help a kid up after they knock him down. My best friend in HS was that kid. He was as mean and nasty as they come on the football field, but just a big teddy bear off it. I loved playing with him because I knew that he was going to hang in all out there and nut up when we needed him. Being a tough football player and being a person with high character is not an either or proposition, it can be a both and.
When I started out as a player, I was not tough at all. In fact, I was that kid who was a {censored}, but I did have good character. Over time, I eventually learned that even though I wasn't the biggest, strongest, or fastest I had to be tough because I had others who were counting on me. They were expecting me to be tough and physical so that I wouldn't hang them out to dry.
Being tough is a character trait IMO. Think about any tough person that you know of and I would be willing to bet that almost all of them have a high character. I am not talking about just physically tough people either, but emotionally and mentally tough as well. People who are tough are those who can rise to the challenge, whether it be physical, emotional, or mental, and stand up and get the job done. They back down to no one and to no challenge and I think that is what we all want as coaches.
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Post by buchananm on Feb 5, 2007 12:13:27 GMT -6
To display good character in this world takes toughness. Any coward can display poor character. It takes toughness to do the right thing. Character will always win out over toughness. Just my opinion.
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