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Post by airraider on Aug 17, 2015 18:28:46 GMT -6
I have a rural team with some street level problems. Very small school and not a lot of bright spots in terms of the economy.
I have a kid who works on Monday and Wednesday and obviously misses practice.
He is a good kid and without a doubt he NEEDS to work as both parents are incarcerated and he is living with grandma trying to stay on the right path.
He was charted to start at SS for us, but I just do not see how that can happen now.. even though we only have 25 players or so.. the other two kids getting the reps there do not start on offense.
Its a tough situation.. but really do not know how to handle it.
Any insight?
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Post by mrjvi on Aug 17, 2015 18:48:17 GMT -6
Unfortunate but if you make certain reasonable exceptions, it will lead to pressure to make unreasonable ones. Tough call, though, given your urban situation and it's implications. We had a school near where I used to coach that wanted the basketball players to play football and promised they could miss Mondays and Wednesday's to go play basketball as long as they were with FB the rest of the time. A deal. It was abused by those kids and resented by the rest of the team. That coach pronounced it a HUGE failure after the season.
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Post by natenator on Aug 17, 2015 18:56:46 GMT -6
Unfortunate but if you make certain reasonable exceptions, it will lead to pressure to make unreasonable ones. Tough call, though, given your urban situation and it's implications. We had a school near where I used to coach that wanted the basketball players to play football and promised they could miss Mondays and Wednesday's to go play basketball as long as they were with FB the rest of the time. A deal. It was abused by those kids and resented by the rest of the team. That coach pronounced it a HUGE failure after the season. Big difference in wanting to play another sport and having to work to support oneself. If this kid can prove he is actually working then I think you need to find a way to have him involved and contributing. He's in a difficult situation and trying to find a positive way to handle his business. He could very easily take the path of least resistance here. Kids like him should be rewarded and celebrated. This game and the life skills it teaches is bigger than winning and losing. |
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Post by 19delta on Aug 17, 2015 19:33:14 GMT -6
Some kids want to work. Some kids need to work. He's obviously in the latter category.
What is his job? Can you talk with his employer? Maybe he can leave practice a little early and go to work a little later?
How do the other kids feel about it? What about parents? If you had some kind of meeting and explained the situation, would they understand why he was missing practice?
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Post by shocktroop34 on Aug 17, 2015 20:25:21 GMT -6
As someone who's been through this situation a few times, these situations are never easy. After going through it over and over again, I basically had to adopt a philosophy so I could deal with it in a timely and efficient manner, without feeling guilty.
It basically comes down to one thing: The player needs to decide if he's going go play or if he's going to work.
The few times that I tried to accommodate a player doing both, there was ALWAYS a conflict and the player ended up having an unfulfilled experience in both football and work.
In fact, the last time I dealt with this, the player WANTED to go to work...during week one...OF THE PLAYOFFS. He was my starting right tackle. After that, I promised myself that I had to take more of a stance, in order to protect the best interest of the team.
The only circumstance that I might allow is if the player finds hours on the weekend that don't conflict with our football schedule. That's it. Other than that, as cold as it may sound, I make them choose and if they choose to work, I wish them the best and leave my door open to help them academically if they need it.
The last thing I leave them with is: 'You have the rest of your life to work. You'll never get this time back. Give me three months so I can leave you with some of the best memories of you life.'
Good luck, Coach.
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 17, 2015 20:49:25 GMT -6
I think shocktroop34 brings up the most important point--you need to "protect" the team. airraider , right NOW, he has to miss Mon and Wed. But who is to say the employer doesn't call him in on a Friday night in November, like in shocktroop34 s case. I think the best case scenario is a mature talk with him, and tell him he is absolutely welcome to practice with the team, and travel and play a backup role/get in the game during mop up time (depending on your depth) but that you can't allow him to hold any real roles of responsibility and point out the reasons why. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 17, 2015 20:51:25 GMT -6
The last thing I leave them with is: 'You have the rest of your life to work. You'll never get this time back. Give me three months so I can leave you with some of the best memories of you life.' That's great...for the kids that want to work to buy rims/jordans/iphones. A little different for those who are working to buy bread and milk |
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Post by airraider on Aug 17, 2015 20:54:54 GMT -6
As someone who's been through this situation a few times, these situations are never easy. After going through it over and over again, I basically had to adopt a philosophy so I could deal with it in a timely and efficient manner, without feeling guilty. It basically comes down to one thing: The player needs to decide if he's going go play or if he's going to work. The few times that I tried to accommodate a player doing both, there was ALWAYS a conflict and the player ended up having an unfulfilled experience in both football and work. In fact, the last time I dealt with this, the player WANTED to go to work...during week one...OF THE PLAYOFFS. He was my starting right tackle. After that, I promised myself that I had to take more of a stance, in order to protect the best interest of the team. The only circumstance that I might allow is if the player finds hours on the weekend that don't conflict with our football schedule. That's it. Other than that, as cold as it may sound, I make them choose and if they choose to work, I wish them the best and leave my door open to help them academically if they need it. The last thing I leave them with is: 'You have the rest of your life to work. You'll never get this time back. Give me three months so I can leave you with some of the best memories of you life.' Good luck, Coach. I just do not think I can follow that. I can see the kid not starting due to the missed (but still excused) practices... but making him decide is just not the right thing to do. I guess situations can be different... and if you have a kid working so he can buy light bars for his jacked up truck that daddy bought him and its causing him to miss practice... well then I can see your point. But I will never be the guy to tell a kid who is working to pay his own way that he has to make a decision between that and playing a game with his friends. I will sit him down and explain to him why his playing time is not going to be what he probably hopes... but I will never in essence kick a kid off the team for choosing to provide for himself. |
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Post by shocktroop34 on Aug 18, 2015 0:08:01 GMT -6
As someone who's been through this situation a few times, these situations are never easy. After going through it over and over again, I basically had to adopt a philosophy so I could deal with it in a timely and efficient manner, without feeling guilty. It basically comes down to one thing: The player needs to decide if he's going go play or if he's going to work. The few times that I tried to accommodate a player doing both, there was ALWAYS a conflict and the player ended up having an unfulfilled experience in both football and work. In fact, the last time I dealt with this, the player WANTED to go to work...during week one...OF THE PLAYOFFS. He was my starting right tackle. After that, I promised myself that I had to take more of a stance, in order to protect the best interest of the team. The only circumstance that I might allow is if the player finds hours on the weekend that don't conflict with our football schedule. That's it. Other than that, as cold as it may sound, I make them choose and if they choose to work, I wish them the best and leave my door open to help them academically if they need it. The last thing I leave them with is: 'You have the rest of your life to work. You'll never get this time back. Give me three months so I can leave you with some of the best memories of you life.' Good luck, Coach. I just do not think I can follow that. I can see the kid not starting due to the missed (but still excused) practices... but making him decide is just not the right thing to do. I guess situations can be different... and if you have a kid working so he can buy light bars for his jacked up truck that daddy bought him and its causing him to miss practice... well then I can see your point. But I will never be the guy to tell a kid who is working to pay his own way that he has to make a decision between that and playing a game with his friends. I will sit him down and explain to him why his playing time is not going to be what he probably hopes... but I will never in essence kick a kid off the team for choosing to provide for himself. I won't disagree/argue with any position you take on this. Where you are now, is where I have been. I just wanted to express what I found to be the easiest thought process for me. I will also say that I think it is a slightly drastic thought to think that you are kicking him off the team by making him decide on one of the two. If we do anything as coaches/teachers/leaders is we help young people prioritize the things that are important to them and help them find success in that particular area. You are merely doing that. This is the other factor that wasn't clear in your OP: what exactly is his level of financial need? Maybe you can give some more insight to how he is paying his own way. I'm not asking this to be flip. I'm asking because I've coached two players who were wards of the state. Kids that truly needed financial help. One even had a "foster" mother who was a teacher in my building. She would take the state check and spend it on herself. None of the money went to the kid. He's now working at a liquor store. I can't stand looking at her. You stated that the young man lives with grandma. Does she provide in a relative way or is she struggling herself? If he has a decent place to live, food, and clothing, he can make it a few more months without the worries of working a job, playing football, maintaining his grades, and anything else going on in his personal life. If she is struggling as well, I completely understand his need to work. I've been through both scenarios. You can make them both work. Obviously, one situation is more ideal than the other, but it can work. coachd5085 hit it on the head. If he does both, try to avoid having him play a vital role. But with 25 players, how long will that last? My smallest roster was 18. Everyone was vital. Nevertheless, it sounds as if you've made up your mind. Just know that you will have to navigate through some obstacles that you might not be able to foresee right now. I'm sure you'll do what's best for the kid. |
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Post by coach2013 on Aug 18, 2015 1:05:45 GMT -6
Football is a game. Kids play all games with varying degrees of investment/commitment. We role model and preach full commitment. WE sell that hard to parents and players.
The reality is that in 2015 everyone has so many choices that its easy to snub football and just do something else. We don't want that.
One reason why our program continues to grow in numbers while other programs around us are dropping freshmen ball or JV ball is because of our approach and understanding of.... a) the game is under attack by the media and b) coaches are too demanding and turn kids off to the game, its not worth the commitment! c) we make it fun, we are very welcoming and we do allow kids to miss practice for work or other commitments provided they understand (player contract) that they must make up the conditioning and pass a "mentally prepared" test prior to regaining their playing time. Simply put, we don't push kids away - we will only remove a kid from the roster if he literally skips practice without permission from his parents. If the kid and parent understand the consequences of missing practice for work or other sports or other commitments (band, drama, art, math team, debates and so on) then that is good enough to teach life lessons. We all make choices.
If they understand up front that skipping - ie just not showing up= youre fired, that's real life as well.
Coaches, do not cut off your nose to spite your face - too many kids are running off to soccer and lacrosse or fall baseball. Keep them involved with football. We have to change and while we demand hard work, we have to remember that its not 1980 anymore and football isn't the only thing to do in the fall.
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Post by realdawg on Aug 18, 2015 3:43:13 GMT -6
Some kids have to work but want to play football. Good lesson that sometimes we have to do what we have to do, not want to do. If you are gonna allow him to stay on the team, just to try to help the kid out-no way he starts over the other 2 kids who are there every day.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 5:48:38 GMT -6
Some kids have to work but want to play football. Good lesson that sometimes we have to do what we have to do, not want to do. If you are gonna allow him to stay on the team, just to try to help the kid out-no way he starts over the other 2 kids who are there every day. I was thinking the same thing here. This is a chance for you, @airrader to teach the young man a VERY valuable life lesson, and that is priorities and doing what you WANT to do vs. what you HAVE to do. The other factor is the other 24 young men who don't have this situation. I don't think making an exception for the young men, will help the other 24. You have to do what's right by the TEAM and not necessarily any individual player. Yes, this too is coming from the voice of experience. Coached many years in the same kind of rural setting. I know it looks like you're drawing a line in the sand, but sometimes you simply have to... Duece |
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bulldon
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Post by bulldon on Aug 18, 2015 6:36:58 GMT -6
I think we have to take the boy where he is. Do you want to provide him with the football experience? Let him work and play. The amount of play that he receives is up to you as coach to determine. It is a coaching canard that all players are equally important but every coach knows that they are not. Does he need to practice every day to perform to the team's expectations? or is perfect attendance just a goal. If he has no future in football beyond high school, what is the harm?
Have you asked the other players on the team what they think? I have found that boys can often be very compassionate about classmates situations when it is explained to them. Remember the young man is not asking for pity or an exception, he wants to help your team out, but can only do so 3 of 5 days a week. Can you as a coach take that? Can you make exceptions? Every coach does that.
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pain
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Post by pain on Aug 18, 2015 7:56:29 GMT -6
I deal with this same situation but I treat it as any other missed practice. If you miss, you have extra conditioning after practice. Miss one day, one extra circuit; miss two, two extra; etc.
I have kids with responsibilities at home with a parent or parents who don't care about football and these boys have to baby sit when parents are working. I have kids that work to help pay the bills. I have kids with no parents involved. It's a tough call on how we handle things as coaches.
I had 6 kids doing extra last night. Some said they were "sick", "couldn't get a ride", and some who readily admitted that they just overslept and missed our morning session. I told them all that I didn't like to punish them but their teammates were in 95 degree heat for 2 1/2 hours while they had 10 minutes of extra conditioning. I said they got off pretty easy. I also explained it's not a "football" issue. It's being a man and being a responsible person. I gave them the examples of skipping work=getting fired & go out drinking every night=potentially lose their families. I told them we all make decisions and those decisions have consequences; some good and some bad. But it was their choice that brought them to this and, if they wanted to be on our team, then they'd have to pay the punishment.
Did they want to say "screw you coach"? I'm sure a few did but we have to set standards for everyone on the team. Some will not meet them, others will. It's a given that some of our players are going to disappoint us but we can try to mold these boys into better men every day we coach them.
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Post by blb on Aug 18, 2015 7:59:51 GMT -6
To play Devil's advocate...
If you had 35 players would you still keep him? 45?
Isn't it possible for him to go to work after practice Mondays and Wednesdays?
What other reasons for missing practice are you willing to accept as Excused?
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Post by fcboiler87 on Aug 18, 2015 9:04:37 GMT -6
We deal with this same thing to an extent. The kids know the expectation. We don't do anything on the weekends so they have all day Saturday and Sunday to work. There are a few of them that work after practice. That'd be a heck of a long day and I have a feeling some of them do it for $$ on the weekends but hey what do I know. Regardless, employers tend to be flexible and work around kids' schedules. Ask the player if you can speak with his work and see if they can work out a schedule.
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Post by holmesbend on Aug 18, 2015 10:34:20 GMT -6
What about a kid who also plays soccer, and I don't mean that he is a kicker, either?
Others have said it. Tough situation.
Great kid? Grades? Behavior? Attitude and effort off the charts? Playmaker?
If all of those are checked off, rock and roll. I know we all like to pretentious that all rules apply to everyone, but the fact is..they don't. In football or society.
If he HAS to work. As in he and his family are dependent on that, and he is also a difference maker on the field along with being top shelf in those other categories...I say roll with it; especially if it's just one side of the ball.
Had a kid 3 years back on a good team of ours. Played soccer. He was also our nose guard. He missed on M/TH for games. Practiced T/W. He was he11 on wheels, all 5'8 165 of him (wrestler also & leading scorer on the soccer team). Playing a 50, he made us go, obviously.
Kids were fine with it. Very likeable kid. I had some older assistants who didn't like it. But, as I told them...it wasn't like he was missing practice due to skipping; going home and eating cheetos.
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Post by holmesbend on Aug 18, 2015 10:34:43 GMT -6
*pretend.
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Post by dubber on Aug 18, 2015 12:18:06 GMT -6
How often are you going to run into the "both parents are incarcerated" situation?
Football is for the kids, and this kid needs football way more than football needs him (which is ALWAYS the case).
Maybe he doesn't start, maybe he doesn't play that much, maybe he plays every second.....
The only wrong move, imo, is to kick him off the team.
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Post by natenator on Aug 18, 2015 12:21:40 GMT -6
The only wrong move, imo, is to kick him off the team. Or to make him feel unwanted because he HAS to work such that he quits. |
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Post by s73 on Aug 18, 2015 12:47:18 GMT -6
I have a rural team with some street level problems. Very small school and not a lot of bright spots in terms of the economy. I have a kid who works on Monday and Wednesday and obviously misses practice. He is a good kid and without a doubt he NEEDS to work as both parents are incarcerated and he is living with grandma trying to stay on the right path. He was charted to start at SS for us, but I just do not see how that can happen now.. even though we only have 25 players or so.. the other two kids getting the reps there do not start on offense. Its a tough situation.. but really do not know how to handle it. Any insight? In my mind you have to do your "due diligence" to find out how legit the situation really is. In other words, I would talk with grandma and make sure everything he is telling you is completely accurate. If it is, then IMO the next step is to see what he can do work wise to alleviate the issues. I think the proof will be in the pudding. If he REALLY wants to play football, in my experience, most employers will work with him. If he actually takes the time to try and work it out with his employer, then I think the two of you try to find a middle ground you can accept. Maybe he leaves a tad early as excused or something along those lines. But I personally would exhaust all avenues first AND.....make sure he is doing the same before I made a decision. Then I think you make the call you are most comfortable with. After all, you truly know your situation better than the rest of us. As always, JMO. |
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Post by airraider on Aug 18, 2015 18:37:02 GMT -6
To play Devil's advocate... If you had 35 players would you still keep him? 45? Isn't it possible for him to go to work after practice Mondays and Wednesdays? What other reasons for missing practice are you willing to accept as Excused? In this situation, I do not think it would matter if I had 100 in terms of telling him to make a decision. I look at it like this... if I decided to tell him its work or football, I am making a declaration that I feel as if a game is more important to me than his ability to put clothes on his back. Even more, I am making it seem as if I think a game should be more important to him than earning money to pay for his own clothes. This is the same kid who asked if he could borrow some of our old throw away cleats until he saved up enough money to buy his own. You going to tell that kid to choose?? Not me brother.. never... |
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Post by blb on Aug 18, 2015 20:28:38 GMT -6
To play Devil's advocate... If you had 35 players would you still keep him? 45? Isn't it possible for him to go to work after practice Mondays and Wednesdays? What other reasons for missing practice are you willing to accept as Excused? In this situation, I do not think it would matter if I had 100 in terms of telling him to make a decision. I look at it like this... if I decided to tell him its work or football, I am making a declaration that I feel as if a game is more important to me than his ability to put clothes on his back. Even more, I am making it seem as if I think a game should be more important to him than earning money to pay for his own clothes. This is the same kid who asked if he could borrow some of our old throw away cleats until he saved up enough money to buy his own. You going to tell that kid to choose?? Not me brother.. never...
You just gave us a lot more of the back story than in your two earlier posts.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Aug 18, 2015 22:57:31 GMT -6
In this situation, I do not think it would matter if I had 100 in terms of telling him to make a decision. I look at it like this... if I decided to tell him its work or football, I am making a declaration that I feel as if a game is more important to me than his ability to put clothes on his back. Even more, I am making it seem as if I think a game should be more important to him than earning money to pay for his own clothes. This is the same kid who asked if he could borrow some of our old throw away cleats until he saved up enough money to buy his own. You going to tell that kid to choose?? Not me brother.. never...
You just gave us a lot more of the back story than in your two earlier posts.
I agree. Responses would have been quite different knowing this information. |
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Post by coach2013 on Aug 18, 2015 23:19:05 GMT -6
We mainly find that our seniors are the ones who cant give up jobs in time to start summer ball. They might miss two or three practices at the start of the season. We have something like 75 practices a year. If the seniors have been in the program for three years, and you aren't starting over...its not a huge issue. If however you are a new coach with pressure to get your system installed and you expect those seniors to know their assignments prior to your first scrimmages, then its a bigger deal. Still, some kids just don't get it and certainly their parents do not either. Others may get it, but cant give up the job, or wont. If its me, I am not going to lose a kid over two or three practices- he will just have to catch up when he can.
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Post by natenator on Aug 19, 2015 3:04:26 GMT -6
You just gave us a lot more of the back story than in your two earlier posts.
I agree. Responses would have been quite different knowing this information. While I am not one to assume what the OP described was pretty well implied that the kid HAS to work to support himself and keep himself from getting involved in shady things... Parents in jail Living with grand mother Street issues Poor economic outlook in area |
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Post by shocktroop34 on Aug 19, 2015 8:03:21 GMT -6
I agree. Responses would have been quite different knowing this information. While I am not one to assume what the OP described was pretty well implied that the kid HAS to work to support himself and keep himself from getting involved in shady things... Parents in jail Living with grand mother Street issues Poor economic outlook in area 50-75% of my players deal with 50-75% of the issues on this list. Because of nature of the area that I coach in, I guess I didn't pick up on the implications. For whatever it's worth, I would do all I could to keep the kid out for football, while helping him keep his part time job. There would just be "stuff" to deal with along the way. |
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Post by 19delta on Aug 19, 2015 13:16:53 GMT -6
At a clinic years ago, I heard a guy say that he doesn't treat kids equally, he treats them fairly. Given the circumstances, I think that applies here.
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Post by 33coach on Aug 21, 2015 23:20:28 GMT -6
Take care of this kid, hes trying his best to do the right thing by his family and by his team.
Reward him for being there at all...Make his contributions and late nights worth something.
This may be the only time in his life that he gets to play a game and forget his situation...
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Post by jlenwood on Aug 22, 2015 21:51:26 GMT -6
I just had a talk with a kid this week about this very thing. He works and was being late for practice, so I get pi$$ed and cut his reps in practice and so on. Then I remembered his house was foreclosed about a year ago and it got me to thinking that I had made the wrong decision.
Talked to him and asked point blank, are you working to buy stuff, or are you contributing to the household? He said only him and his mother wore working right now, and he has 3 brothers so he had to help out. He also said he does leave a little early so he can make as much practice as possible. I felt like a heel.
Now some of you may think it is an either or, but the reality is, to me this shows this kid has a work ethic and a sense of family first, so no way should he be banished from the team. Just my thoughts.
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