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Post by bigm0073 on Jul 11, 2015 19:24:30 GMT -6
Ok this is insane.. Video put a pit in my stomach.. Have two little boys similar in age.. Just made me sick to listen to the kids and his wife. Feel sorry for them. now bottom line...
Just saw the Dbs coach at va tech is being paid 275,000.00 a year.. Ok that is basically being paid like a big time executive. Hours at college level can be justified when they make that type of money.. I get it.
high school coaches.. Now way.. Even if they get crazy money like 100.000 thousand.. Still not worth it... guys we are high school coaches... 90 percent of us make 30 to 80 thousand a year. Average to below average money. How can you justify those type of crazy hours and the sacrifice of family for like 50,000 dollars... No way
what about hudl... We film every practice.. 2 angles.. But coaches can watch film from home and correct 9 on 9. 7 on 7, team...etc...why in the office until 9:00 at night? Makes no sense.
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Post by olinedude on Jul 11, 2015 20:25:17 GMT -6
I'd be very surprised if wager wasn't making at least close to 100k if not more. Also, I'd be pretty surprised if there wasn't some exaggeration in work hours here and there.
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Post by fantom on Jul 11, 2015 20:44:14 GMT -6
Sounds like a helluva waste of time. Its run like a college program so take it for what its worth. Every college is run like a college program. Some are well coached and some aren't so what does that matter?
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Post by bigm0073 on Jul 12, 2015 5:24:28 GMT -6
Imo 100 gs is not close to being worth the amount of time you are away from your family...not even close..
so what about the other 10 coaches or so. They making 100? Hell no.... They are putting in insane hours too for a hell of a lot less
Not like this guy is making a million, 2 million, 3 million or more like the Sabins, beamers.. Etc.... That is life altering money..
do you think they would do that for only 100 gs... Hell no
I commend his work ethic but as a father I really question his Denison making. He loves his job because it impacts and molds young people..... What about the two kids at home. They are getting only 5 percent or less of him.. Walking him out to the car in the morning while he spends 16 hours a day at school molding young people and other peoples children.. That seems like a bad balance and not one that is healthy
i think we all know what he is chasing ..... Egos are big and often need to be sfroked..
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Post by saltfork on Jul 12, 2015 9:15:17 GMT -6
I'm a dc at a Texas 6a (3,500 kids in our high school) I usually avoid these threads because it becomes a pi$$ing contest on who works the most hours. hours do not equal wins.
For us, efficiency is the goal. The Fastest way to lose morale is to waste people's time. I've been an assistant coach on staffs where I had nothing to do for hours on the weekend except wait on other people to make decisions (while they checked their fantasy stats). Been on others where we would be done on one side of the ball but had to wait on the other side so we could "meet". In both situations you look at the clock and think I could be home with my kids right now. Wasting time makes coaches disgruntled.
So now we try to be as efficient as possible - If the fresh staff gets their duties done on Sat, they don't come in on Sunday. On Sunday, When the offensive staff finishes they leave, don't wait on the defensive staff to finish and vice versa. Get it done and go home. Don't waste time, give people a purpose, when they complete their job send them home. This keeps people motivated. Give coaches specific duties so as they finish one task they can start immediately on the next job. Most coaches are hard workers and will give you everything they've got if they feel their time being used efficiently.
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Post by fantom on Jul 12, 2015 10:12:13 GMT -6
I'm a dc at a Texas 6a (3,500 kids in our high school) I usually avoid these threads because it becomes a pi$$ing contest on who works the most hours. hours do not equal wins. For us, efficiency is the goal. The Fastest way to lose morale is to waste people's time. I've been an assistant coach on staffs where I had nothing to do for hours on the weekend except wait on other people to make decisions (while they checked their fantasy stats). Been on others where we would be done on one side of the ball but had to wait on the other side so we could "meet". In both situations you look at the clock and think I could be home with my kids right now. Wasting time makes coaches disgruntled. So now we try to be as efficient as possible - If the fresh staff gets their duties done on Sat, they don't come in on Sunday. On Sunday, When the offensive staff finishes they leave, don't wait on the defensive staff to finish and vice versa. Get it done and go home. Don't waste time, give people a purpose, when they complete their job send them home. This keeps people motivated. Give coaches specific duties so as they finish one task they can start immediately on the next job. Most coaches are hard workers and will give you everything they've got if they feel their time being used efficiently. That's one reason why we don't do a lot of the mundane tasks as a group. Our scout cards get drawn. I draw them. Now that I'm retired I do them at home. When I was teaching I did them during my planning period or when the kids were doing seat work or watching a video. Mostly I don't need to draw too many because last year's still hold true. There's one team whose cards haven't needed to be changed in ten years. I can't fathom why anybody would need to bring in the whole staff at 7 AM in freakin' July to draw up a card for every play an opponent runs. To me that's the epitome of putting time just to put time in.
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mc140
Sophomore Member
Posts: 207
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Post by mc140 on Jul 12, 2015 12:44:12 GMT -6
Around 65 hours per week teaching/coaching.
M-W 730-630 Th 730-530 Fri 730-Midnight Sat 2-3 hours breaking down previous nights game and doing stats Sun 4-6 hours breaking down next opponent and making scout cards. Using the playcard maker on hudl has saved tons of time. Some teams year to year barely need any changes in cards
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osceola
Sophomore Member
Posts: 148
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Post by osceola on Jul 12, 2015 19:39:42 GMT -6
I am currently the O-line coach at a 5a school in Texas.
This is what the schedule looks like.
Mon-Wed 7am arrive at school 8-11:30 teach 11:30-12:30 varsity period 30 min lunch 1 hour conference 2-3:00 teach 3-4:00 9th grade period 4:00-6:30 varsity practice 6:30-7:15 watch practice, get laundry going, wrap up duties
So basically a 12 hour day.......Thursday and Friday are the same except obviously you are playing games, so for Thursday night extend the time to about 10pm or 11pm based on home or away.....and on Fridays extend the time to 11pm or Midnight based on home or away.
Mon-Wed 36 hours Thur-Fri 30 hours
Now on Saturday we go 7am-1pm Sundays 1pm-7pm...might go later or earlier depending on what we are doing.
So Sat-Sun is 12 hours
That puts me at 78 hours. This does not include really long road trips on either night that take an hour or two longer, this does not take into consideration hours put in at home with hudl or working on teaching duties.
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osceola
Sophomore Member
Posts: 148
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Post by osceola on Jul 12, 2015 19:44:06 GMT -6
To me a key factor is taking care of things that I can while I am at school. I try to grade and plan all my teaching stuff on campus. So when I get that hour long conference, unless I have to be at a meeting or something else, I am getting school stuff done.
If I get home around 7:30 at night monday-wednesday but I do not have anything work related I need to do and can chill out for 3 hours or so then go to bed, I am a happy camper. If I get home and have 3 hours worth of grading and planning to do that is no bueno. So I do as much as I can while at school in the morning/lunch/conference.
Same can be said about football to an extent. I want to get as much as I can done at the office during the time we are there. I do not want to spend a couple of hours peaking at the Cowboys game, checking fantasy football, and watching whatever youtube video is going viral.
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osceola
Sophomore Member
Posts: 148
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Post by osceola on Jul 12, 2015 19:49:35 GMT -6
I have been at places that worked 90 hours and up a week as assistants, and places where it was closer to around 60-65. I will say this, the biggest factor for wins and losses I have seen so far is the talent you are putting on the field vs the talent the opponent is putting on the field.
Not saying what we do is not a factor...what I am saying though is an extra couple of hours on a Saturday and Sunday have rarely in my opinion been the difference in winning and losing that week.
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fugulookinat
Junior Member
"Eye see DEAD people!"
Posts: 437
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Post by fugulookinat on Jul 12, 2015 21:52:03 GMT -6
If you want to win a ring, you'll have to put in the hours... It's super competitive here in Texas. A typical week for me, goes like this. Monday-Wednesday 6:00am arrive at field house 6:30-7:30 varsity video/ meetings 7:30-7:45 Varsity/ JV dress 7:45-9:15 varsity/ JV practice 9:15-9:30 varsity/ JV dress 9:30-9:45 varsity/ JV breakfast 9:45-1:50 teach 1 class/ have 1 conference 1:50-2:05 freshman dress 2:05- 3:50 freshman practice 3:50 freshman dress and go home 3:50-5:30 Varsity/ JV practice #2 5:30-5:45 Varsity/JV dress 5:45-6:15 video from morning workout 6:15 players go home 6:15-7:15 Coaches prepare practice schedules, scripts, scout books, etc. 7:15-9:00 coaches watch afternoon practice and make cut-ups for morning video. I lock up the field house and am home around 10:00 Thursday Same as Monday thru Wednesday except practices are walk thru. Sub varsity games are Thursday night. I will usually watch until around 6:30, then go scout one of our varsity opponents. We are in a very large district and have several teams that have to play on Thursday nights. Usually get done around 10:30, home by 11:00. Friday (Game Day) Arriveat 6:00am Go home around midnight Saturday Arrive at 7:00am Go home around 7:00pm Sunday Arrive at 2:00pm Go home ? Repeat this for 18 straight weeks. Welcome to Texas. Enjoy.
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Post by fantom on Jul 12, 2015 21:56:41 GMT -6
If you want to win a ring, you'll have to put in the hours... It's super competitive here in Texas. A typical week for me, goes like this. Monday-Wednesday 6:00am arrive at field house 6:30-7:30 varsity video/ meetings 7:30-7:45 Varsity/ JV dress 7:45-9:15 varsity/ JV practice 9:15-9:30 varsity/ JV dress 9:30-9:45 varsity/ JV breakfast 9:45-1:50 teach 1 class/ have 1 conference 1:50-2:05 freshman dress 2:05- 3:50 freshman practice 3:50 freshman dress and go home 3:50-5:30 Varsity/ JV practice #2 5:30-5:45 Varsity/JV dress 5:45-6:15 video from morning workout 6:15 players go home 6:15-7:15 Coaches prepare practice schedules, scripts, scout books, etc. 7:15-9:00 coaches watch afternoon practice and make cut-ups for morning video. I lock up the field house and am home around 10:00 Thursday Same as Monday thru Wednesday except practices are walk thru. Sub varsity games are Thursday night. I will usually watch until around 6:30, then go scout one of our varsity opponents. We are in a very large district and have several teams that have to play on Thursday nights. Usually get done around 10:30, home by 11:00. Friday (Game Day) Arriveat 6:00am Go home around midnight Saturday Arrive at 7:00am Go home around 7:00pm Sunday Arrive at 2:00pm Go home ? Repeat this for 18 straight weeks. Welcome to Texas. Enjoy. It's super competitive everywhere. In some places there may be soft touches in league play but once you get to the playoffs everybody has good players and coaches.
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fugulookinat
Junior Member
"Eye see DEAD people!"
Posts: 437
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Post by fugulookinat on Jul 12, 2015 22:00:41 GMT -6
If you want to win a ring, you'll have to put in the hours... It's super competitive here in Texas. A typical week for me, goes like this. Monday-Wednesday 6:00am arrive at field house 6:30-7:30 varsity video/ meetings 7:30-7:45 Varsity/ JV dress 7:45-9:15 varsity/ JV practice 9:15-9:30 varsity/ JV dress 9:30-9:45 varsity/ JV breakfast 9:45-1:50 teach 1 class/ have 1 conference 1:50-2:05 freshman dress 2:05- 3:50 freshman practice 3:50 freshman dress and go home 3:50-5:30 Varsity/ JV practice #2 5:30-5:45 Varsity/JV dress 5:45-6:15 video from morning workout 6:15 players go home 6:15-7:15 Coaches prepare practice schedules, scripts, scout books, etc. 7:15-9:00 coaches watch afternoon practice and make cut-ups for morning video. I lock up the field house and am home around 10:00 Thursday Same as Monday thru Wednesday except practices are walk thru. Sub varsity games are Thursday night. I will usually watch until around 6:30, then go scout one of our varsity opponents. We are in a very large district and have several teams that have to play on Thursday nights. Usually get done around 10:30, home by 11:00. Friday (Game Day) Arriveat 6:00am Go home around midnight Saturday Arrive at 7:00am Go home around 7:00pm Sunday Arrive at 2:00pm Go home ? Repeat this for 18 straight weeks. Welcome to Texas. Enjoy. It's super competitive everywhere. In some places there may be soft touches in league play but once you get to the playoffs everybody has good players and coaches. 256 teams are in the playoffs in EACH classification in Texas.... 256 in 6A playoffs 256 in 5A playoffs etc. Most states don't have 256 teams combined.....Super Competitive.....
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 12, 2015 22:03:42 GMT -6
256 teams are in the playoffs in EACH classification in Texas.... 256 in 6A playoffs 256 in 5A playoffs etc. Most states don't have 256 teams combined.....Super Competitive..... And so...just for fun Texas's 2012 record vs out of state Texas -- 33-23 Overall (.589 win percentage) 2-2 vs. Arkansas 2-1 vs. California 1-0 vs. D.C. 0-1 vs. Florida 1-0 vs. Illinois 1-0 vs. Kansas 0-2 vs. Louisiana 0-1 vs. Minnesota 17-9 vs. New Mexico 9-6 vs. Oklahoma 0-1 vs. Washington
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Post by bigm0073 on Jul 13, 2015 5:14:30 GMT -6
Ok so you win a ring... At what cost?
the schedule IMO makes no sense and is insane.. The sacrifices of your family.. Etc. I am trying to figure out the logic. Those house are probably longer then many and most big time division IA coaches and nfl
remember what they get paid... Not to insult anyone but 100,000 dollars a year is not that much money today.. This is not 1985... Even so would then stoops, miles, sabans... Any of them do that type of schedule for 30,000 to 80,000 a year.. Because from what I read the head coaches are expecting then assistants to work these hours too
why do you guys in Texas not use HUDL and do film work at night at home or over the weekend?
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Post by coachphillip on Jul 13, 2015 7:43:09 GMT -6
I think that's the part that irks me about this whole conversation. "Welcome to Texas." "Ultra competitive out here in Texas." "Texas high schools are run like nation wide colleges." Okay, okay, we get it. If you have to put in crazy hours to stay so competitive with those in your region then how is it even possible you lose when you go out of state? Why is it that the "law of diminishing returns" I hear getting thrown about on this board applies to every team in every state excluding those in Texas? Not trying to start some regional board war. I just think it gets kind of ridiculous after a while.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 13, 2015 7:47:14 GMT -6
I think that's the part that irks me about this whole conversation. "Welcome to Texas." "Ultra competitive out here in Texas." "Texas high schools are run like nation wide colleges." Okay, okay, we get it. If you have to put in crazy hours to stay so competitive with those in your region then how is it even possible you lose when you go out of state? Why is it that the "law of diminishing returns" I hear getting thrown about on this board applies to every team in every state excluding those in Texas? Not trying to start some regional board war. I just think it gets kind of ridiculous after a while. Coach, I truly believe that those types of hours happen in Texas because it is "ultra competitive". That is just one poster posting. I believe that that type of schedule happens because of the culture and expectations.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 13, 2015 8:09:05 GMT -6
I think that's the part that irks me about this whole conversation. "Welcome to Texas." "Ultra competitive out here in Texas." "Texas high schools are run like nation wide colleges." Okay, okay, we get it. If you have to put in crazy hours to stay so competitive with those in your region then how is it even possible you lose when you go out of state? Why is it that the "law of diminishing returns" I hear getting thrown about on this board applies to every team in every state excluding those in Texas? Not trying to start some regional board war. I just think it gets kind of ridiculous after a while. Coach, I truly believe that those types of hours happen in Texas because it is "ultra competitive". That is just one poster posting. I believe that that type of schedule happens because of the culture and expectations. EDIT------ I can't edit my above post (past the time) but it SHOULD READ" I truly DON'T BELIEVE that those types of hours happen because Texas is "ultra competitive".
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Post by fantom on Jul 13, 2015 8:20:57 GMT -6
Coach, I truly believe that those types of hours happen in Texas because it is "ultra competitive". That is just one poster posting. I believe that that type of schedule happens because of the culture and expectations. EDIT------ I can't edit my above post (past the time) but it SHOULD READ" I truly DON'T BELIEVE that those types of hours happen because Texas is "ultra competitive". In last year's annual "Look at hard I work" thread a guy gave what I think is the most accurate reason: Because the community expects them to. If some boosters drive by the field house over the weekend and the coaches' cars aren't there you'd better win big. They're putting in time for the sake of putting in time because people expect them to put in time.
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Post by bigm0073 on Jul 13, 2015 9:18:07 GMT -6
Now that makes more sense. Now I at least see the reason why. So much of that is wasted time and can be done at home with hudl. Plus if you have a descent staff stuff getting be delegated and more efficient.
But with the boosters and high expectations those unrealistic hours now make sense
All do respect to those athletic boosters but if they expect these guys to put in those type of hours they need to be paid. Again 100,000 is not close to what they should get on the fair market. Multiply that at least 3 to 5 times...
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Post by bigm0073 on Jul 13, 2015 9:18:57 GMT -6
Now that makes more sense. Now I at least see the reason why. So much of that is wasted time and can be done at home with hudl. Plus if you have a descent staff stuff getting be delegated and more efficient.
But with the boosters and high expectations those unrealistic hours now make sense
All do respect to those athletic boosters but if they expect these guys to put in those type of hours they need to be paid. Again 100,000 is not close to what they should get on the fair market. Multiply that at least 3 to 5 times...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 9:49:43 GMT -6
Its run like a college program so take it for what its worth. Every college is run like a college program. Some are well coached and some aren't so what does that matter? What it matters is up to the individual. Personally I don't have a problem with it, if it is productive. Along those you are absolutely correct. Most of the time that schedule is filled with empty time. That problem exist on every level.
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osceola
Sophomore Member
Posts: 148
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Post by osceola on Jul 13, 2015 15:59:59 GMT -6
I can't speak for everyone in Texas but I can speak with my experiences. The schedule I listed above, with an 80 hour work week give or take a few hours I believe is fairly typical for an assistant coach.
I was lucky enough to be at a top notch program early in my career, and did win a ring. I was working about 85 hours there a week.
Last year I was at a smaller school that went 13-2 and lost in the game before state. We worked about 65 hours a week.
You also have to take into account that during the summer we work a couple of hours monday-thursday, and have two weeks completely off. Also, for quite a few your second sport is a lot less demanding then football. So during the spring semester you might be home at 5:30 every day besides game days. That has been my experience.
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donk3y
Freshmen Member
Posts: 75
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Post by donk3y on Jul 13, 2015 16:48:12 GMT -6
Lots of places work hard. I was a head coach in Washington and have since moved to Texas as a coordinator. I will say this- even working smart, there are longer hours.
In-season, days are long. And out of season I would say a ten to twelve hour day is the norm (we bring kids in for weights at 6).
But here is the trade-off... I have much more time during the summer than I did out of Texas. With non-contact rules, I spend three hours at school four days a week and then I am gone. We have two full weeks off (no commitments) and can arrange other time off as long as there is weight room coverage. It's really nice not to have full practices everyday and team camps for a week. Really nice!
I would echo what others have said- it's all about efficiency. Get your work done, go home and love your family up.
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fugulookinat
Junior Member
"Eye see DEAD people!"
Posts: 437
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Post by fugulookinat on Jul 13, 2015 17:35:17 GMT -6
Ok so you win a ring... At what cost? the schedule IMO makes no sense and is insane.. The sacrifices of your family.. Etc. I am trying to figure out the logic. Those house are probably longer then many and most big time division IA coaches and nfl remember what they get paid... Not to insult anyone but 100,000 dollars a year is not that much money today.. This is not 1985... Even so would then stoops, miles, sabans... Any of them do that type of schedule for 30,000 to 80,000 a year.. Because from what I read the head coaches are expecting then assistants to work these hours too why do you guys in Texas not use HUDL and do film work at night at home or over the weekend? The hours aren't longer than D1 and NFL teams.... Pay is higher than the majority of college coaches..... Head Coach is on a 205 day contract, I'm on a 187 day contract.... we use HUDL exclusively. Are you saying that going home and totally ignoring your family to watch video is better? ?
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Post by mariner42 on Jul 13, 2015 17:35:43 GMT -6
Ok so you win a ring... At what cost? the schedule IMO makes no sense and is insane.. The sacrifices of your family.. Etc. I am trying to figure out the logic. Those house are probably longer then many and most big time division IA coaches and nfl remember what they get paid... Not to insult anyone but 100,000 dollars a year is not that much money today.. This is not 1985... Even so would then stoops, miles, sabans... Any of them do that type of schedule for 30,000 to 80,000 a year.. Because from what I read the head coaches are expecting then assistants to work these hours too why do you guys in Texas not use HUDL and do film work at night at home or over the weekend? My HC has won 6 section titles in CA, roughly equivalent to a state title in a lot of other states. His first title came after several years of coming up short and banging their heads against the wall. After winning the first one, he got home, felt overwhelmed with this feeling of melancholy, and started crying. As he says it, the only phrase that came to mind was "is that all there is to it?" The focus on winning had consumed the whole program, him included, and after they finally won, it felt hollow. Same program fired the next coach after losing a section title game. I would never coach there. Ever.
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fugulookinat
Junior Member
"Eye see DEAD people!"
Posts: 437
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Post by fugulookinat on Jul 13, 2015 18:03:46 GMT -6
Let me ask you "Out of State" guys a question....
If your Head Coach gets fired, are you also fired???
The answer is yes in Texas.
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Post by bigm0073 on Jul 13, 2015 19:06:48 GMT -6
Well everyone has their opinions on this and they have been expressed. Nothing you say will change anyone elses and nothing i say will change yours...so this just becomes a value judgement thing. I am sure your program is highly successful and rotuinely wins championships every year.
i think it is where it is
like Lou holts said never wrestle with a pig. All you do is get muddy and the pig likes it.
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Post by fantom on Jul 13, 2015 19:21:32 GMT -6
Let me ask you "Out of State" guys a question.... If your Head Coach gets fired, are you also fired??? The answer is yes in Texas. You bring up a valid point. For most of us if we leave our coaching job or it leaves us it doesn't affect our livelihood. It does in Texas. To me, though, that's even more reason for HC's there to be mindful of the demands that they place on assistants.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Jul 13, 2015 22:47:46 GMT -6
I think the hours some have posted seem a little excessive, but it's also worth pointing out that we are talking about IN SEASON hours, which do not carry on throughout the full year.
Is 100k worth it to work 80 hours a week 50 weeks a year? Probably not. But to work 80 hours a week 15-18 weeks per year and also have a big chunk of the year where you are potentially working 15 or so hours in the summer? That becomes more attractive.
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