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Post by raymul313 on Jun 27, 2015 9:33:47 GMT -6
It also doesn't help that the play looked like Power and Richardson went opposite of the LG pulling and they STILL couldn't stop him
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Post by hback41 on Jun 27, 2015 10:06:46 GMT -6
As a position coach, I like D. Teach kids a few specific tecniques, to be aggressive, fly around, hit people and have fun.
As a play caller or coordinator, I like O. I get to be creative in getting my best guys in mismatches. My great or lucky plays look great. And my bad calls can often be forgotten.
On D a great play is quickly forgotten. And no one realizes that your backup MLB did not get the defense shifted to the unbalanced formation and your safety tripped on the play that went for a 75 yd TD. A few years ago our D captain who played MLB got hurt. The back up kept shifting the line away from the overloaded side. The RB had 335 yards rushing.
Offense did 0 for 2.5 quarters. Still the Ds loss to the fans.
Sent from my SM-G900V using proboards
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Post by jg78 on Jun 27, 2015 10:17:12 GMT -6
It also doesn't help that the play looked like Power and Richardson went opposite of the LG pulling and they STILL couldn't stop him If this play is drawn up on the board, the RB is tackled at least twice before crossing the LOS. But this is what having the #1 recruiting class in the country every year does for you.
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Post by hammer66 on Jun 29, 2015 9:35:59 GMT -6
Just from my experience....Defense really makes you look at the whole picture. I was an Oline guy for 15 years and had the opportunity to coordinate on defense for two years. HC resigned and I was hired back as the Oline coach. I see things much better now on the offensive side of the ball as it pertains to breaking down a defense as a whole. Now I love offense but defense takes more work, more risk then reward. One guy on defense screws up and its six points. One guy on offense screws up and it still can be a positive outcome.
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Post by fantom on Jun 29, 2015 9:57:53 GMT -6
Just from my experience....Defense really makes you look at the whole picture. I was an Oline guy for 15 years and had the opportunity to coordinate on defense for two years. HC resigned and I was hired back as the Oline coach. I see things much better now on the offensive side of the ball as it pertains to breaking down a defense as a whole. Now I love offense but defense takes more work, more risk then reward. One guy on defense screws up and its six points. One guy on offense screws up and it still can be a positive outcome. Coaching defense definitely forces you to be more in tune with the whole unit. What the DL does affects what the LB's do which affects the DB's. Besides being a DC I also coach OL. I couldn't even guess what our formations mean and what our pass patterns are. I tell the OL to stop listening after they hear the blocking scheme. Listening to that other stuff will just get you confused.
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Post by hammer66 on Jun 29, 2015 10:42:32 GMT -6
Just from my experience....Defense really makes you look at the whole picture. I was an Oline guy for 15 years and had the opportunity to coordinate on defense for two years. HC resigned and I was hired back as the Oline coach. I see things much better now on the offensive side of the ball as it pertains to breaking down a defense as a whole. Now I love offense but defense takes more work, more risk then reward. One guy on defense screws up and its six points. One guy on offense screws up and it still can be a positive outcome. Coaching defense definitely forces you to be more in tune with the whole unit. What the DL does affects what the LB's do which affects the DB's. Besides being a DC I also coach OL. I couldn't even guess what our formations mean and what our pass patterns are. I tell the OL to stop listening after they hear the blocking scheme. Listening to that other stuff will just get you confused. I get that. I used to be that way too. Now I am in the booth on the sets with the HC/OC in a check with me system. So I am helping him call plays most of the time. I need to know the passing game a bit too. Gotta love the OLINE though. Glad to be back doing it. Love the work involved...
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Post by mariner42 on Jun 29, 2015 14:34:18 GMT -6
Offences tend to lose more games than defences... A offence will usually make mistakes that can change the course of a game.. It's our job to limit them.. I have never had the desire to coach defence just beat em See, maybe it's because I've been almost 100% on the defensive side of the ball my career, but I would phrase it like this: An bad offense may not win the game, but a bad defense WILL lose the game. This will be my first year being an OC, so I suppose I'll get back to you on all this, but I do know that it's pretty rare for me to have any kind of good feeling prior to kickoff when I'm the DC. I'm ALWAYS worried about something I forgot, something we didn't stop well in practice, about that ONE F***ING KID who can beat us by himself, etc etc. Shoot, last year I was pretty worried about our Wk3 opponent and their RB #6. He ran ALL OVER the first two teams they played, it was bad. During pre game I can't find the kid while I'm watching their warm ups/practice plays, somehow this makes me worry more. A few minutes before kick off, I see him in his street clothes on the sideline, turns out he's out with a concussion. I don't know why, but I still don't feel good about things, despite having had a great week of practice and a solid game plan. I mean, #77 is one BIG dude and that QB is kind of a load and we 10 points to some soft-@ss private school the week before... After the first play I was smiling, after the second play I knew we had it in the bag. They didn't cross the 50 until the 3rd string was in. But I'd spent a whole week worrying and worrying before that.
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Post by raymul313 on Jun 30, 2015 6:01:16 GMT -6
IF you were prepared to stop their best you should be alright but the nerves are normal even with injury
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Jul 2, 2015 20:04:31 GMT -6
Defense way harder, longer prep etc like has been mentioned Offense I think is easier, practice same plays. If u have sound rules u should be ok
But
I also believe to be successful on offense everyone has too be on same page, one lineman screws up ,play is usually fubard unless its the tackle away from toss
On defense everybody could screw up but if u got one guy whose a stud he can make a play and stop the offense. Maybe not every time but a lot
And like some one said u lose 1 or 2 guys on o and stuff can change fast, defense even, if u lose to many Dl u might have to go to an odd front or your odd/nickel package as your base
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Post by coachphillip on Jul 2, 2015 21:59:27 GMT -6
My argument against the guy screwing up is that on offense you can choose to avoid pinning the hopes of the play working out on guys who screw up often. Your LT sucks at run blocking? Run to the right. Switch him with the RT whenever you want to run left. Pass the ball. RPO that DE. Your choice on how to deal. If you have defensive players that screw up a lot, he will be targeted. On offense, you can play to your strengths. On defense, people will exploit your weaknesses.
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Post by jgordon1 on Jul 23, 2015 10:22:41 GMT -6
I would say IN GENERAL a true defensive guy knows more about football than an offensive guy because all the breakdowns and card drawing. I also think that if the offense gives up a Td they should have the points deducted from the score. So you could win a game 0 to-7
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Post by pvogel on Jul 24, 2015 11:33:27 GMT -6
I played OL and kind of always had a defensive mindset anyways. All my best friends were defensive players and whatnot. I like stressing simple assignments done with aggression and reckless abandon. I try to carry that over to O but its more natural on D.
I want the defense to be better and to be the cornerstone and identity of the team. The best athletes should play D. If you play 2 ways, then rest on O, not on D. We can rotate RBs/WRs. I'm not going to rotate DBs and LBs.
As long as the defense is good, you have a chance to be in every game. Thats true in every sport. Sometimes the O doesn't click. A lot of it is rhythm based and changes week to week. Your defense has more potential to be consistent.
Defense: - Way harder during the week. Lots of scout and prep to do. Never enough time. HS level has so many varying schemes too that it must make it real hard. - Probably easier play calling come game time. Never been a DC, but I do know the ol "when in doubt, base out" adage. Because if you can't stop it in your base then it really doesnt matter.
Offense: - Easier prep. Defenses will come out in new stuff every week. So more of your practice is based on "doing you" and making sure your kids can run your stuff against multiple looks. Find the weak kid(s) on the D and attack him. - Easier to hide poor players. Like its been said, go away from them. You can dictate who has the ball and where its going.
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Post by pvogel on Jul 24, 2015 11:36:34 GMT -6
I would say IN GENERAL a true defensive guy knows more about football than an offensive guy because all the breakdowns and card drawing. I also think that if the offense gives up a Td they should have the points deducted from the score. So you could win a game 0 to-7 I love it. 35 to -14 would be embarrassing. It'd also show the real nature of the game. Like the Mizzou-Florida game last yr where Mizzou only had 1 offensive touchdown but scored 42 points... haha
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coachpsl
Sophomore Member
“Don’t Cuss. Don’t argue with officials. And don’t lose the game.” -John Heisman
Posts: 197
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Post by coachpsl on Jul 24, 2015 16:09:12 GMT -6
I second Mariners comments about the worry just before kickoff as a DC.... I always think about Samuel L Jacksons line in Jurassic Park right before the first defensive series: "Hold on to your butts".
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Post by coachorm on Jul 24, 2015 21:47:52 GMT -6
My take:
Defense: This was my first coordinator job. Preparing for the next opponent takes a lot of time. You have to watch film for tons of tendencies, you have to make scout cards for run period, pass period, team period... if they run option you have to do a special option period to make sure your guys have those responsibilities down. And God forbid one jackass on your schedule runs the UBSW. After a week of practice you get out there and your defense is playing lights out but no matter how good of field position you give that OC he just cant find a way to score. Game ends and unless the offense got shutout its the defenses fault. Been there and done that. Almost walked away from coaching because it was so frustrating to watch us lose cause we couldn't score.
Offense: current assignment: Preparing is a lot easier. Look for fronts, blitzes, and coverages. Figure out what situations they like to blitz in and where from. Practice week, rep your plays vs their defense. Gameday, this is probably the hardest part of the whole gig. Staying one play ahead of the defense to give your team an advantage. Good thing is if you can find a weak link in the defense you can exploit it hopefully.
Myself even though I am an OC, I feel DC is the harder job. If the defense has one player breakdown on their assignment it could be a score for the offense. If the offense has a player breakdown on their assignment it could still be a score for the offense.
I am glad I had the opportunity to do both. Has really helped me see the big picture better. Also doing both gives you a respect for the other side of the ball.
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Post by lochness on Jul 25, 2015 7:23:40 GMT -6
On offense, if you don't line up in the shotgun with at least 3 wide you're a drooling idiot who has no concept of how the modern game is played. Even if you DO, but you chose to huddle, you're probably still a moron who can't spell his own last name.
Nobody cares what scheme you run on defense.
Which is sad because defensive prep is FAR more difficult than offense.
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Post by coachorm on Jul 25, 2015 12:22:53 GMT -6
On offense, if you don't line up in the shotgun with at least 3 wide you're a drooling idiot who has no concept of how the modern game is played. Even if you DO, but you chose to huddle, you're probably still a moron who can't spell his own last name. Nobody cares what scheme you run on defense. Which is sad because defensive prep is FAR more difficult than offense. I can actually confirm this..... We have been an I-Formation team for a while, dabbled in other things but always return to I. Anyway this season I kept my base pro I set, but took my twins I set and put the QB in gun and offset the I away from the TE to the Twins. This spring according to the fans I was a genius because we finally switched to spread. Also switched to NO Huddle. So basically we are an I -Formation No Huddle Offense. To our fans we are cutting edge all because the QB is aligned 4yards from the centers butt. I tell my kids we are a Sherman Tank that looks like a Lamborghini.
And as far as defense you are right no one questions the defense as long as you are stopping the other team enough to win.
Fans, are the base of some of the funniest conversations ever had in the Coach's Office.
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Post by coachklee on Jul 25, 2015 14:25:05 GMT -6
^ that being said, OCs receive all the glory when "their offense" goes nuts for major points. Just like mentioned above, even if those points were in large part owed to outstanding field position and opportunities because of defensive and special teams play. And it's easier for a great offensive player to do something like this (below) and change the scoreboard on a play that should have been stopped in the backfield. Definitely sucks when on the defensive side your guys play it almost perfectly, almost makes the play, but one broken tackle by an athletic freak results in a TD.
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Post by blb on Jul 28, 2015 9:17:04 GMT -6
I second Mariners comments about the worry just before kickoff as a DC.... I always think about Samuel L Jacksons line in Jurassic Park right before the first defensive series: "Hold on to your butts". See...I disagree. I don't have a worry before kickoff. I get the same feeling inside that I always got every time I knew I was about to be in a fight. It's hot, it tingles, it's anxiety but not a "worry" type of anxiety, it's the surge of adrenaline I get the second I step out of the plane when I skydive or the same anxiety I got on Sunday when I drove the Indy car or when you go down the big hill on a roller coaster...chit, IDK, all that chit makes me laugh. I can't help it. I laugh uncontrollably when that adrenaline hits me like that. It's awesome...Hi...I'm DCOHIO and I'm an addict... There is never a "concern" or "worry" it's more of a "it's time to separate boy dogs from girl dogs, lets to this chit" just an eagerness to just go.
Ha ha - I for one am glad your back, dc.
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Post by coachcb on Jul 28, 2015 9:53:55 GMT -6
To me, I only enjoy one over the other when the staffs are platooned. I like coaching with straight defensive guys because they're generally pretty straight forward, no bullchit individuals. In my experience, coaches that spend too much time just coaching the offensive side of the ball tend to turn into Xs and Os gurus. It's pretty simple; every play they draw up or look at is a best-case scenario; everyone does their job and you get a big play out of it. It's the opposite on the defensive side of the ball; we're always planning for doomsday and worst case scenarios. Everyone does their job on the defensive side of the ball and the offense is limited to four yards or less.
These are obviously generalizations but I'll take coaching with guys like dcohio who don't take their meds on Friday nights for a reason over being an offensive guy any day of the week.
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Post by jg78 on Oct 21, 2016 23:05:36 GMT -6
One con for defense is a game when you are overmatched. Watching an offense shove the ball up your a$$ all the way down the field and you just can't stop them is a lot worse than running three plays and then punting.
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jaydub66
Sophomore Member
Varsity D-Line Coach
Posts: 223
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Post by jaydub66 on Oct 22, 2016 4:04:07 GMT -6
I prefer coaching defense because I get to crush dreams. Everyone always does the, "I threw/caught the winning TD" in their backyard, I always dreamed of knocking it down. That being said, I always felt like, especially with the high school kids, each side of the ball teaches about the other side of the ball.
Belichick always has his coaches coach the opposite side of the ball than they prefer. Bill Obrien was a Defensive Linemen in college, ends up being this offensive guru type.
I coached freshmen ball, 40-50 kids a year, for two years. I like coaching the Oline because it helped my DL and LBs learn about what the offense is trying to do to them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2016 8:59:23 GMT -6
The only con i can think of would pertain to people who desire to coach a different position on the other side of the ball
Often if you're successful at one position, coaches can get Typecast in that role and that May mean long term in that spot.
It wouldn't mean much if you didn't care where you coach though
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Post by aceback76 on Oct 31, 2016 9:07:21 GMT -6
Some of you who have experience coaching both sides of the ball, what do you think are some of the positives and negatives of coaching one side of the ball vs. the other?
To start it off, I would say that coaching in blowouts (win or lose) is generally worse on defense. If you're losing, it's tougher to watch a team shove the ball down your throat or hit you with big plays than it is to go three and out and punt. If you're winning, it's more frustrating to watch your shutout ruined in the 4th quarter when the other team scores on your scrubs and you win 42-14 in a game that easily could have been 42-0. On offense, once you have the points you want they can't be taken off the board. IN HIGH SCHOOL: I liked coaching BOTH, and we always taught our players BOTH. With a GREAT athlete (like the James Farriors' & Darren Perrys' I had the pleasure of coaching) it is a MISTAKE to play them only one way!!! If we have enough players, our first offense is our second defense, and our first defense is our second offense.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2016 9:14:23 GMT -6
Some of you who have experience coaching both sides of the ball, what do you think are some of the positives and negatives of coaching one side of the ball vs. the other?
To start it off, I would say that coaching in blowouts (win or lose) is generally worse on defense. If you're losing, it's tougher to watch a team shove the ball down your throat or hit you with big plays than it is to go three and out and punt. If you're winning, it's more frustrating to watch your shutout ruined in the 4th quarter when the other team scores on your scrubs and you win 42-14 in a game that easily could have been 42-0. On offense, once you have the points you want they can't be taken off the board. IN HIGH SCHOOL: I liked coaching BOTH, and we always taught our players BOTH. With a GREAT athlete (like the James Farriors' & Darren Perrys' I had the pleasure of coaching) it is a MISTAKE to play them only one way!!! If we have enough players, our first offense is our second defense, and our first defense is our second offense. Agree 100 it also never mattered to me where i was on staff
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Post by Send_the_House on Nov 4, 2016 11:27:16 GMT -6
A typical HS game has about 50 offensive snaps. If you do everything wrong on 90 of your plays, but you do just enough right or have one stud kid who breaks loose on the other 10%, you've scored 5 TDs and done your job. If you do everything right on defense 90% of the time, but have big screw ups from one player the other 10%, you've given up 5 TDs and failed. That's it in a nutshell. Even more than offense, defense is about limiting mistakes. We play closer to 80-100 snaps a game 'round this joint... Better bring whatcha got. These visor wearing boys round here aint afraid to #TEMPO ur ass every series.
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Post by jgordon1 on Nov 5, 2016 11:51:22 GMT -6
I would say IN GENERAL a true defensive guy knows more about football than an offensive guy because all the breakdowns and card drawing. I also think that if the offense gives up a Td they should have the points deducted from the score. So you could win a game 0 to-7 so we won last night 28-14..I of course informed the HC the REAL score was 14-0 as we scored a 94 yd fumble return and they returned a blocked FG for a TD
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 5, 2016 19:14:57 GMT -6
Belichick always has his coaches coach the opposite side of the ball than they prefer. Bill Obrien was a Defensive Linemen in college, ends up being this offensive guru type. I have no clue where you got this idea from, but it just is not true. O'brien has coached offense all but one season of his entire career. Playing defense does not mean you "prefer" coaching that side of the ball. At the college and professional levels, your career path is generally determined by how you break in.
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Post by coachphillip on Nov 5, 2016 19:17:52 GMT -6
I played OL and am a DC. My HC is very Belichick-like.
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jaydub66
Sophomore Member
Varsity D-Line Coach
Posts: 223
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Post by jaydub66 on Nov 6, 2016 2:09:20 GMT -6
Belichick always has his coaches coach the opposite side of the ball than they prefer. Bill Obrien was a Defensive Linemen in college, ends up being this offensive guru type. I have no clue where you got this idea from, but it just is not true. O'brien has coached offense all but one season of his entire career. Playing defense does not mean you "prefer" coaching that side of the ball. At the college and professional levels, your career path is generally determined by how you break in. Josh McDaniels started out at a DB coach, ends up being an OC. The DC they have now I think started coaching TEs or OL. He does it a lot. Guys starting out, he gets them to coach the other side of the ball so they understand what is being attacked and how to attack.
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