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Post by tog on Oct 25, 2005 6:31:08 GMT -6
When you have a talented player that is getting the job done, how much do you still try and get perfect technique down with them?
I know, we always try to get them to do it right, but I was thinking of VInce Young. Obviously his mechanics are not textbook when throwing the ball. Haven't watched his feet enough to know if they are good, but the arm action is a little different. When do you just leave well enough alone and just let the kid play? When they are getting it done?
Have heard college guys talk about defensive players taking the wrong angle inside out on a block and making the play because they can, and they let them because they can.
Similar to a RB that just finds daylight and makes plays happen, when the plays aren't designed to go that way or hit that hole?
Does it all come down to just being effective?
I think it does.
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Post by tog on Oct 25, 2005 6:35:22 GMT -6
let's just say the talented player isn't doing things quite "right" but getting it done
when do you just let them?
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Post by pegleg on Oct 25, 2005 6:53:58 GMT -6
That is why I never tell a RB where the hole is, I tell him where to aim. That way he is doing "right" but utilizing his talent to find holes and make plays. Talent is the most important thing. Technique is huge, but if your are a player, make plays and I don't really care how.
Now, having, said that, the reason to practice and drill is so they have enough tech. to be in a position to make plays. Average players become great with great tech. We had an OL last year that was a soph and physically not quite ready to play but he started 13 games for us because he was ice cold with his tech. At the same time, we had a 300+ lbs OL that was really good because he had enough tech to allow his talent to work. He was not a great technition by any means, he was talented, but by combinning the 2 he was all district. With OL you have to find the medium and utilize both, with "skill" guys talent is more important.
Its a great question because there is no "right" answer. Talent will overide tech but without tech talent can't work.
Holla
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Post by brophy on Oct 25, 2005 6:54:34 GMT -6
we drill them early on fundamentals and do them over and over until they are sick of them. I am a 'recovering' musician, so I believe in rote memorization, and 'riffing' is fine, but when you get in trouble, you can always revert to your scales to bail you out...
With our "athletes" we can praise them on good plays, but in the same breath review how much more effective they could be if they work within the system. We had one kid who was out-weighed by 60-80lbs but kept wanting to engage linemen on the edge - we praised him on what he was doing, but pointed out the 10 other sacks he could've had, had he just reverted to good fundamental play. He's "got it", but he could have that exhilaration 10x greater IF he chose to use the tools given (fundamentals).
I think if they get it done, they get it done. Sooner or later, bad fundamentals catches up with you - you can only ride athleticism so long before an injury or old age takes it from you.
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Post by tog on Oct 25, 2005 7:01:56 GMT -6
enough tech to allow the talent to work
that's a good way to put it
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Post by PowerDown on Oct 25, 2005 7:02:34 GMT -6
I would say with most players if you can't get them doing the right things but they are still making plays it would be in the preseason. The worst thing you can do is hinder one of your players especially if we are talking minor techniques. If it something major and it is taking him out of making plays then i say yes nothing to lose. But if you try to change something you run the risk of taking him out of making the plays you start to count on him making in the regular season. I am always very aware of my wording in situations like this and with your most talented players it is very difficult. A lot of times it is best to say something like its probably not the best way to do it but good job on making the play. That way when his way doesn't work you will be able to come back and correct it without it being confrontational in the players mind. Some players are so stubborn, like some coaches, and talented that they never will be open to a certain technique but at least leave the door open to change.
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Post by tog on Oct 25, 2005 7:03:46 GMT -6
good stuff
keep it coming
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radar97
Sophomore Member
Posts: 103
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Post by radar97 on Oct 25, 2005 7:25:21 GMT -6
Negative success will catch up with the player in the long run. One day the will meet some one as talented as them and if they are doing it wrong it will hurt them. It is a hard thing to break though because of the success part. I would still try to get them doing it right till the last play of their senior year. After that it is the college coaches responsibility. I'm not saying bench your best athlete because he is not technique sound, but if you do not think your way is the best way why are you teaching it?
Make your athletes better, or it will beat you.
Coaches have the same problem at times. They run unsound defenses that work good against less athletic teams, but when they come up against a team that is equall or close to equall their sceams dont work. They just say they got beat by better athletes, but sometimes its the sceams not the athletes.
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Post by pegleg on Oct 25, 2005 7:47:29 GMT -6
I worked in South Dallas for many years. Our athletes were better than the teams we played because we had better tech. So I agree with what you are saying. My point is this, you can over coach some kids and it limits their athletic ability. If a kid is thinking instead of playing that will slow him down and limit his pay making ability. If a kid is 4.4 but plays 4.8 because he is overly concerned about what he's doing he won't make plays. Coach them up and make them better, but don't take away their playmaking ability by overcoaching. Like I said before, Give them enough tech to allow the talent to work.
Holla
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Post by ogie4 on Oct 25, 2005 8:11:49 GMT -6
Randall McDaniel had the worst lineman stance of all time, but he was argueable one of the best left guards of all time.
Are there exceptions? yes, but until they are enjoying the fourth year starting at a college or playing in their fifth NFL season, technique still must be stressed. Athletes are athletes and will make plays, but technique will make them better. High school athletes in my opinion need to be taught technique every day on fundamentals like blocking, stance, tackling, throwing, catching, runnng, etc.
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Post by tog on Oct 25, 2005 8:46:24 GMT -6
i agree ogie
but say, vince young
do you try and change his mechanics in the middle of a season?
or do somethings need to be worked on during the offseason to keep a kid doing well, keep doing well?
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Post by brophy on Oct 25, 2005 9:00:01 GMT -6
.....as soon as we get some "Talent" I will weigh in on this subject.....(ahem)
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radar97
Sophomore Member
Posts: 103
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Post by radar97 on Oct 25, 2005 9:36:20 GMT -6
I was not talking about mechanics. I think for the most part they are overratted.
I was talking about stepping with the wrong foot. Running underneath blocks to make tackles. ect.
I am a good example of this. My senior year I was a tackle over player. I could hook block with the best of them. I would step wide with my outside foot instead of at the guy like I was supposed to. It worked well for me until I went up against Bryan Johnson. He would come under my block and still make the tackle on the sweep. I had been getting my butt chewed on all year for taking the wrong step, but I thought I was having success. I soon realized why I was being told to step with the correct foot.
Negative success will catch up with you in the long run.
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Post by ogie4 on Oct 25, 2005 12:29:16 GMT -6
i agree ogie but say, vince young do you try and change his mechanics in the middle of a season? or do somethings need to be worked on during the offseason to keep a kid doing well, keep doing well? There's a reason I am not a college coach, I'm no genious, but my opinion would be to work on the technique every day, but if he doesn't carry it to games on a consistent basis, you don't call him out on it if he is making more good plays then bad. I would say being consistent teaching it and patient while teaching it will result in good habits being formed over the long term without damaging the confidence of the player. Ya gotta let em play some, but don't stop trying to change the bad habits . |
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