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Post by coachnswords on May 13, 2015 17:55:56 GMT -6
Had a buddy of mine call me this weekend...... Their HC is a "I'm the boss, do it my way guy,"The whole staff knows that the way things are done need to be changed. How does this get approached or should they all look for new jobs. They are a relatively successful program but offensively they're stuck in neutral with HC calling the plays.
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Post by fantom on May 13, 2015 18:34:17 GMT -6
Had a buddy of mine call me this weekend...... Their HC is a "I'm the boss, do it my way guy,"The whole staff knows that the way things are done need to be changed. How does this get approached or should they all look for new jobs. They are a relatively successful program but offensively they're stuck in neutral with HC calling the plays. If they can't do things the way that the boss wants then they should leave.
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Post by veerman on May 13, 2015 19:30:54 GMT -6
I agree, don't like how HC does it, then leave. Bottom line it's his reputation on the line not theirs.
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Post by John Knight on May 13, 2015 20:23:20 GMT -6
Why does it need to be changed? Is the guy abusive? Or they just don't like his play calling? We need more insight.
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Post by coachphillip on May 14, 2015 7:46:17 GMT -6
I've seen plenty of programs doing things I would consider to be bat $hit crazy, but they win because everybody is rowing in the same direction. They might be surprised how much less "stuck" they would be if they just all took one year to completely sell out for the guy. I don't know your friend, but I question whether he's doing everything in his power to sell out for the program if he's calling up coaching buddies and complaining.
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Post by coachnswords on May 14, 2015 8:03:08 GMT -6
Agree with all points so far. What if everyone on staff is pulling one direction and the HC is going in another. Whose issue would that be? I just think this is an interesting conversation because I'm sure it's true at more places than where we are talking.
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Post by coachphillip on May 14, 2015 8:06:30 GMT -6
That is the fault of the staff. It's not their job to pull in one direction. It's their job to all pull in the HC's direction. He's the one steering.
I've always been of the mentality that it is the HC's job to be the keeper of the vision of the program. It is the assistants' jobs to help him achieve that vision to the best of their ability. If they're not doing that, they're failing him and the program.
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Post by John Knight on May 14, 2015 9:20:24 GMT -6
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Post by dubber on May 14, 2015 12:18:13 GMT -6
If I were on that staff, I would try to find ways to help the HC's vision.
So he wants to run ISO 50 times a game? Great, let's find a way to make my position group the best at supporting that vision.
And, if I want to suggest something, I keep it within the framework of his offense, or I suggest an adjustment to a technique or blocking scheme to help him do what he wants.
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Post by veerman on May 14, 2015 15:38:53 GMT -6
I completely agree with this! Your job is to do what the HC tells you to the best if your ability. If a coach wants to run veer every play then find out how to improve on that. If not, then find another boat. Even if you have the title as a coordinator, if HC wants something then you're job is to do that. Again the HC is the ONLY ONE on the staff that has the W/L record put by their name.Don't like it, find your own gig and see what you want when all the pressure is on you.
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Post by fballcoachg on May 14, 2015 20:55:05 GMT -6
I have zero issue speaking up in meetings and staff disagreeing/discussing differences however it has to be upfront and when the HC decides that is it, everyone MUST be on the same page when you leave those doors. If you cannot function in that situation find something else, much more professional then pulling in the opposite direction.
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agame
Junior Member
Posts: 378
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Post by agame on May 15, 2015 2:47:33 GMT -6
If you can't back your Hc, then you have no business being on that staff... Will just turn nasty and end up with soneone leaving the programme
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Post by coachtua on May 15, 2015 2:58:00 GMT -6
Agree with all points so far. What if everyone on staff is pulling one direction and the HC is going in another. Whose issue would that be? I just think this is an interesting conversation because I'm sure it's true at more places than where we are talking. Everyone else is the problem. Dont like it leave. Your friend can keep making suggestions but once the HC has spoken that is it. Our HC was a defensive guy. But after he lost a few games because of offensive play calling he switched sides of the ball. He vowed he would never lose another game because of someone else calling the plays. His defense never changed and he would do all the scheming but "allow" his DC to "call" the game Friday nights.
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Post by maikaione on May 15, 2015 3:21:29 GMT -6
From my experience, in the military and on coaching staffs, as an assistant, it's your responsibility to provide candid feedback and input when the debate is still on and decisions have not yet been made. Once the boss had made the call, you get behind it and enthusiastically support it. If you can't do that, leave.
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Post by blb on May 15, 2015 6:16:49 GMT -6
Not all coaches make good head coaches, but some get the opportunity to prove it.
That said, the HC is not always right, but he is always the HC.
When it gets to the point an assistant cannot support the header and his way, time to "go in another direction."
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Post by John Knight on May 15, 2015 6:34:51 GMT -6
I agree the HC is the boss. If he demands I do something I don't agree with, I have a talk with him. Open honest and to the point. If he tells me my way or the highway, I always have my resignation written, I hand it to him! I have done this. I was fired over the phone for this one time. The guy later told me it was the biggest mistake he had made in his professional career.
Life is too short to be miserable!
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Post by msirishman on May 15, 2015 6:47:12 GMT -6
I agree the HC is the boss. If he demands I do something I don't agree with, I have a talk with him. Open honest and to the point. If he tells me my way or the highway, I always have my resignation written, I hand it to him! I have done this. I was fired over the phone for this one time. The guy later told me it was the biggest mistake he had made in his professional career. Life is too short to be miserable! John speaking wise words.
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Post by hanagin on May 15, 2015 7:25:12 GMT -6
If this is just an issue with playcalling, then I think your friend has to just deal with it. It's probably a bit different if you're dealing with endangering kids or something like that, since you'd probably need to involve the AD on that rather than just leaving the kids to fend for themselves by quitting without addressing the situation.
I can think of a couple of HC/OC guys who were like this. It definitely sucks and it's very frustrating to deal with, but it is part of the job.
(I'd also say that I've had a tendency to be upset with the playcalling/performance with a few guys, but I've normally found that, once the offense is mine to call, that I don't do any better than the previous guy.)
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Post by coachnswords on May 15, 2015 7:58:53 GMT -6
This has turned into a very good discussion. I told him a lot of what's been said here. If the gig is good enough to stay and put up with it, the. Get on board and rock and roll.
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Post by veerman on May 15, 2015 8:20:04 GMT -6
Best advice, either buy in and be all in, or look for something somewhere else. Hard to preach commitment to the kids and total buy in to the program when they may not agree, when your going the same thing.
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twich
Freshmen Member
Posts: 38
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Post by twich on May 15, 2015 8:36:57 GMT -6
We were severely underachieving and I did not like the way our HC was running things in the program. I, therefore, left the program at the conclusion of the season. While I was still in the program, I did what he asked and coached my rear end off.
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Post by WingTheT on May 15, 2015 8:43:35 GMT -6
Redundant....but just do the best you can for this HC before you find another place to go to. Who knows, maybe things might work out....but in the mean time, just do everything you can for this guy in case your future boss wants to call your current one asking about his resume and background
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Post by coachphillip on May 15, 2015 9:32:09 GMT -6
I don't know why so many guys feel anchored down to their current locations. Nobody MAKES you coach somewhere. Hell, I did the same exact thing. Our HC left to coach closer to home and his two infant daughters. Our school hired the biggest DB I've ever been around to replace him and I stayed there for two years in absolute misery. After the second season, I just thought "Eff this. He sucks." and I left. He got fired a year later and now I'm back. If someone is ever truly TERRIBLE, you're always free to leave.
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Post by coachphillip on May 15, 2015 9:35:19 GMT -6
I fooled myself into thinking I was "staying for the kids". I mean what would do they do if I wasn't there to be some kind of beacon of hope for them? Wouldn't they hate me for abandoning them? What an idiot I was. These fools still see me at the grocery store and jump all over me like they're fourteen years old again. It's just high school football. They'll understand. They'll get coached by *gasp* SOMEONE ELSE. You can go to another school and coach *gasp* SOMEONE ELSE. Don't be a glutton for punishment.
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Post by oriolepower on May 15, 2015 9:40:22 GMT -6
Remember that the HC is not intentionally trying to lose. He is doing something he believes will work. Behind closed doors have a good discussion on why his way is wrong. He may be receptive or not, either way when the door opens everyone supports his decision.
I love to throw the ball. I was the OC for a head coach that said I must have a 80% to 20% run pass ratio. I could do whatever I wanted in those 20% pass plays but I better not ever call it 21% to 79% or I would be replaced. We would talk for hours about how much easier I thought it would be if we did stuff my way and he listened and didn't agree. As a result I became much better at running the ball and learning how to run an overall program.
I finally had enough, left, and now I can pass the ball as much as I like. My assistants and I may talk about how we need to run the ball more. I'll listen with an open mind and see if I agree. They haven't changed my mind yet.
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Post by blb on May 15, 2015 10:25:45 GMT -6
Remember that the HC is not intentionally trying to lose. He is doing something he believes will work. Behind closed doors have a good discussion on why his way is wrong. He may be receptive or not, either way when the door opens everyone supports his decision. I love to throw the ball. I was the OC for a head coach that said I must have a 80% to 20% run pass ratio. I could do whatever I wanted in those 20% pass plays but I better not ever call it 21% to 79% or I would be replaced. We would talk for hours about how much easier I thought it would be if we did stuff my way and he listened and didn't agree. As a result I became much better at running the ball and learning how to run an overall program. I finally had enough, left, and now I can pass the ball as much as I like. My assistants and I may talk about how we need to run the ball more. I'll listen with an open mind and see if I agree. They haven't changed my mind yet.
Did you win when OC under HC that mandated 80-20 Run-Pass ratio?
Are you winning now passing the ball "as much as (you) like"?
The object is to get the ball in the End Zone and win the game. How you do it isn't all that important.
There is nothing in above about winning games, just your obsession with throwing the ball.
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Post by fantom on May 15, 2015 10:38:58 GMT -6
Had a buddy of mine call me this weekend...... Their HC is a "I'm the boss, do it my way guy,"The whole staff knows that the way things are done need to be changed. How does this get approached or should they all look for new jobs. They are a relatively successful program but offensively they're stuck in neutral with HC calling the plays. I think that this discussion has gone as far as it can in the abstract. I think that everybody agrees that the boss is the boss. I'd like to see more specifics: You say that they're "relatively successful". What does that mean? You say that they're "stuck in neutral" offensively. What does that mean? What is the different direction that the staff wants to go?
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Post by oriolepower on May 15, 2015 12:30:23 GMT -6
Remember that the HC is not intentionally trying to lose. He is doing something he believes will work. Behind closed doors have a good discussion on why his way is wrong. He may be receptive or not, either way when the door opens everyone supports his decision. I love to throw the ball. I was the OC for a head coach that said I must have a 80% to 20% run pass ratio. I could do whatever I wanted in those 20% pass plays but I better not ever call it 21% to 79% or I would be replaced. We would talk for hours about how much easier I thought it would be if we did stuff my way and he listened and didn't agree. As a result I became much better at running the ball and learning how to run an overall program. I finally had enough, left, and now I can pass the ball as much as I like. My assistants and I may talk about how we need to run the ball more. I'll listen with an open mind and see if I agree. They haven't changed my mind yet.
Did you win when OC under HC that mandated 80-20 Run-Pass ratio?
Are you winning now passing the ball "as much as (you) like"?
The object is to get the ball in the End Zone and win the game. How you do it isn't all that important.
There is nothing in above about winning games, just your obsession with throwing the ball.
Yes and Yes
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 12:27:49 GMT -6
I see where everyone's coming from on the "we all need to row in the same direction" issue. That is true. If this program is "relatively successful" then it sounds like they're doing good things. "Stuck in neutral" sounds like it's more of a criticism of the scheme or playcalling because they aren't running the Facemelter or whatever, which also paints the assistants in a bad light.
However, I get the feeling that the real issue here isn't so much that the staff refuses to cooperate, as it is that the staff does not feel valued for their contributions or able to speak to the HC about their concerns or ideas because he's made it clear he doesn't give a crap. It is clearly the HC's job to set the vision, but if he's too egotistical to respect his assistants as professionals and listen to their ideas or air their concerns and he's making them feel like his ignorant, unskilled flunkies, then that's a failure of leadership on his part.
I've coached for someone like that. It was a miserable experience.
The only thing they can do is to go to the guy with their concerns and have a clear explanation of what the issue is to hash out. If there's a flaw in what he wants to do, lead him to see it by drawing it up on the whiteboard or whatever. A lot of times, guys can't see the forest for the trees when they're set in their ways. Be ready to hash this out and realize that he's always going to have final say, so respect that. Be prepared. Be respectful. Be professional about it. That's all they can do.
If the guy's a real jerk, and there are unfortunately HCs like that, the best thing for them is to just walk away and save themselves the time and trouble while he tries to find someone he can work with his way.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 12:37:00 GMT -6
Agree with all points so far. What if everyone on staff is pulling one direction and the HC is going in another. Whose issue would that be? I just think this is an interesting conversation because I'm sure it's true at more places than where we are talking. If that's happening, there is something seriously wrong and it's everyone's issue. It's the HC's job to set the agenda. If he can't lead and get the staff onboard, then that's on him. It's also the ACs' jobs to get on board and support that agenda. That's how teamwork works. If the OC calls a run but the QB chooses to change that to 4 verticals, but the LG decides he'd really rather pull and kick out the DE... you're going to have problems. Everyone has to be on the same page. It sounds like this is a very bad staff to be on for all the coaches concerned. Was the HC hired in recently but the staff is mostly holdovers from before? Is the HC an older man with a bunch of young assistants? I'm curious what the dynamics are beyond the on-field stuff.
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