coachdk
Probationary Member
Posts: 10
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Post by coachdk on Mar 31, 2015 13:18:45 GMT -6
Coach Vint,
That is a fantastic post and you summed up my thoughts entirely.
I am a young coach (23 years old). Once my senior year of playing ended in high school, I felt that my head coach didn't care about me anymore. I didn't feel like I got the same attention I did from him in the hallways when I was playing. But guess what? I leave high school and a couple years later make a terrible mistake and am going through an incredibly rough time in life. The first person to reach out to me? My ol' ball coach. It meant a lot to me. It didn't take much effort on his part, but I will always be grateful to him pulling me out of that rut. He told me "my mistake will only define my life if I let it." That has always stuck with me.
As I've gotten older, I have realized how naive and selfish I was for thinking that. As you all mentioned, he has a new team to get ready. He has to focus on his guys. He has his own family, is the athletic director, assistant principle, and football coach. He doesn't have a lot of time as you all mentioned.
That being said, if you "generally don't care" about your guys as people... Then you really are missing the boat as Coach Vint mentioned. I am a competitor and I love winning. But one of my former guys sending me a text to check in, telling me how much they enjoyed playing, how one of my quirky motivational quotes has helped them, or being invited to their wedding or life event GREATLY trumps a win on Friday night. Any day.
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Post by mholst40 on Mar 31, 2015 13:44:29 GMT -6
coachvint is going to be hard to follow, but... Unfortunately larrymoe, if you're hearing it from multiple sources and if you're hearing it a lot, there's probably that perception. I'm not saying you intend it to be that way, but that is how others view it. It is very difficult to maintain relationships with student-athletes once they leave the program and still devote time/energy to next year's team, your teaching job and your family. I struggle with this quite often because I do care about my former players, but there's no way to please everyone. I just try to do the best job I possibly can. You will ultimately disappoint someone, at some time, but that should not be the majority of your relationships. Some things that have helped me find some balance in keeping relationships with former players... - Working on campus: seeing the seniors during spring semester, even in passing by - Encouraging seniors who plan on playing at the next level to continue lifting - Social media: @dcohio talked about simply "liking" a status or picture. Kids nowadays notice that stuff and to them, that is "keeping in touch". - Text messaging: Just sending a text out every once in a while to check in shows a kid you care on some level - Asking former players to coach: We have had a BUNCH of former players in the last 7 years come back and coach for us - Going to former players' college football games: Our head coach and I turned around after a playoff loss and drove 5 hours to go watch a former player in his last D3 game because we felt it was the right thing to to. I don't think he (or his family) will ever forget that. - #1: INVITING FORMER PLAYERS TO COME BACK AND LIFT WITH ME. This has by far been the best use of time for me. Most of our former players will want to stay in shape after graduating and this is an area I can have a constant connection with them. And, I at least throw it out there for them and put the ball in there court. I can't go out to lunch every week with 4 different former players, but I can invite those back for Thanksgiving, Christmas, Spring Break or leave to come lift when I am there. I do a better job staying in touch with those student-athletes whom I had a good relationship with during football. And if wasn't close to them during the time we were together every day I don't think most of them would expect that to grow when we don't see each other. One of my high school coaches recently attended my own mother's funeral and switched his business schedule around in order to do so. I told him he didn't have to come, but when he did , it sure meant a lot to me. If you truly don't care about your players, you're going to struggle to do anything meaningful in high school football. I don't think you have to know everything about your former players or act like their father to care and I think it is impossible to have a meaningful relationship with all of them after football is over, but there are ways to connect.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 31, 2015 15:04:43 GMT -6
I don't disagree with anything any of you say. I just don't know that that is me. I'm a pretty guarded person who likes to keep as much as humanly possible private and not said. I am fiercely loyal to those that are loyal to me, but not in a public everyone can see kind of way. That's not me or my style. Perhaps that needs to change, but I also struggle with whether or not it's worth it.
Frankly, I didn't take this job to parent other people's kids. Be a good role model, teach them life skills, teach them work ethic, etc? Yes. Parent them? No. I frequently struggle with whether or not I want to continue coaching because of this expected added layer to the job. I don't think it's my job to fulfill the lower rungs of Maslow's Hierarchy. So I guess, in that regard, I don't care about them.
I think part of the issue, and this was told to me by one of my assistants, is that our coop kids never see me outside football situations. In football season I'm pretty cold, motivated, frequently what many perceive as angry and pretty tunnel visioned on what needs to happen next either at practice or in games. Many of my former players have said that in season and out of season I'm two entirely different people. I think the people at my school see that side of me and the realize that football me isn't me the other portion of my life. I have never had a complaint like this from a kid that goes to the school I teach at. They see me as the overall pretty happy, joke making dad who works his butt off every day and does the best I can. Apparently to a lot of the coop schools I come off as some football cyborg.
I guess really, I struggle with what the perception of the word caring is. Do I want to be a surrogate father? No, if that's what "caring" is. I am certainly not going to screw my own children out of a father so I can clean up other people's messes. Do I care in that my program is a good one that teaches things they can use later in life? Yes, and I hope that they value it and find lessons from it for ever.
I'm really confused and blindsided by this entire situation.
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coachdk
Probationary Member
Posts: 10
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Post by coachdk on Mar 31, 2015 15:47:12 GMT -6
Coach,
I understand the sentiment that you- and especially head coaches- have that they need to have "tunnel vision" during practice and remain focused. I have a different philosophy but I know that not everyone has the same beliefs in that regard.
How about this for a suggestion: maybe there are times (not during practice) that you can show these other players your "other side?" Maybe while everyone is filing in to a classroom for film after practice you can crack a joke at Joey, or ask Johnny how math class is going.
While I am an easy going guy throughout the entire practice, my FAVORITE parts of practice are when we head out and I can razz my guys on the way to the practice field. Or in PRE-pre practice when I am with my lineman I will make it a point to literally talk to all of my guys. I want to know what's going on with their lives, school, jobs, etc. We go through our pre-practice routine and then I bring them all in and share a "Thought of the Day" and "Emphasis of the Day," stolen from Dean Smith's The Carolina Way. Thought of the Day might be something totally unrelated to the game- honesty, integrity, etc. Emphasis of the day might be our scoop steps or something we really want to focus on for the day. I believe these simple things are a great way to show your guys that you care. You don't have to compromise your "in-practice" demeanor, although if kids are calling you a football cyborg I would maybe do some self-eval.
Good luck!
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noco
Freshmen Member
Posts: 23
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Post by noco on Mar 31, 2015 17:49:36 GMT -6
As coaches, we have all had kids with the measurables, but lacking certain intangibles. As much as we want it for them, we can't give it to them, coach it into them or change who or what they are. Similarly, despite the many good suggestions for change by many coaches above, the posts of larrymoe suggest to me that he is who he is. The perception he mentions seems to be a reflection of reality, not the rantings of some disenchanted parent. And just as that athlete will be a good player who may not reach the potential his physical attributes project him to be, a coach who is not as commited to his players as coach vint can still be a good coach - but may not reach the level most of us strive to achieve. Most of us suffer from some limitation. Maybe this is his.
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Post by mariner42 on Mar 31, 2015 18:47:29 GMT -6
...a lot of good stuff... I am going to get off of my soap box. I just felt the need to share that, and it came from the heart. Calling it now: most liked comment in the history of Huey. Coach Vint, I'm all fired up after reading that post. Feel like I needed that.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Mar 31, 2015 19:13:38 GMT -6
I don't disagree with anything any of you say. I just don't know that that is me. I'm a pretty guarded person who likes to keep as much as humanly possible private and not said. I am fiercely loyal to those that are loyal to me, but not in a public everyone can see kind of way. That's not me or my style. Perhaps that needs to change, but I also struggle with whether or not it's worth it. Frankly, I didn't take this job to parent other people's kids. Be a good role model, teach them life skills, teach them work ethic, etc? Yes. Parent them? No. I frequently struggle with whether or not I want to continue coaching because of this expected added layer to the job. I don't think it's my job to fulfill the lower rungs of Maslow's Hierarchy. So I guess, in that regard, I don't care about them. I think part of the issue, and this was told to me by one of my assistants, is that our coop kids never see me outside football situations. In football season I'm pretty cold, motivated, frequently what many perceive as angry and pretty tunnel visioned on what needs to happen next either at practice or in games. Many of my former players have said that in season and out of season I'm two entirely different people. I think the people at my school see that side of me and the realize that football me isn't me the other portion of my life. I have never had a complaint like this from a kid that goes to the school I teach at. They see me as the overall pretty happy, joke making dad who works his butt off every day and does the best I can. Apparently to a lot of the coop schools I come off as some football cyborg. I guess really, I struggle with what the perception of the word caring is. Do I want to be a surrogate father? No, if that's what "caring" is. I am certainly not going to screw my own children out of a father so I can clean up other people's messes. Do I care in that my program is a good one that teaches things they can use later in life? Yes, and I hope that they value it and find lessons from it for ever. I'm really confused and blindsided by this entire situation. Coach, Out of all the posts you have recorded under your name, I probably respect this one more than all of them combined. You are showing a sense of vulnerability and transparency that is honestly a comfort to see. Whether you realize it or not, you're in a place of growth. A place of change. Whether it changes you for the better or worse is yet to be determined. But people who typically change for the worse, don't come on this site and put all out on the line. I don't necessarily agree with the way you are mentally approaching things, but there are many different styles of relationship building that work. What I do appreciate is that you know who YOU are and who YOU are willing to be. Does this present some limitations? Some would say yes. But what it does do is that it establishes a realm of possibilities for you to consider within the boundaries in which you are most comfortable. Many coaches are servant leaders. We abandon many personal things (family, friends, spouses, girl friends) to minister to the young people around us. You (and it is a wise thing to already know) have seen that YOU'RE family is the top priority. But what may be missing is the way to incorporate the need to build relationships with players, into the need to support your own family. I don't feel compelled to tell you that you need to "make changes." I think your personality type would tell me to go flip off. Just hear me out on a couple of ideas in which you might consider meshing your players into what you already already do as a father, husband, teacher, mentor, and leader. Some ideas, if you don't already do this: 1) Have a couple players over and grill some burgers. Maybe pick a couple of guys you are targeting for leadership next season. Bring your kids around your family. It's only a few extra burgers, and it doesn't take away from your family time. How great for your own kids to see your interaction with them in your own home. 2) Tell a couple of guys you are going to be somewhere public (ice skating rink with your kids, varsity baseball game, track meet, etc.). Just the overture of a subtle invite is a way of reaching out. It cost you nothing. Not every time you step out of the house as no one wants to see their players 24/7, but on certain occasions. 3) Do you have a Football website? Make an alumni page. I don't have twitter, but our team does. I don't tweet. Never have, don't plan on it. However, I have a younger staff member that runs ours. If you don't have one, have a staff member or a player you trust, start one and only tweet out info what you tell him to put out. When you do that, reach out to all alumni and have them contact you so you can work some of these issues out. 4) Community service. Not sure if this is within the range of what you're comfortable with, but when you are picking up trash around a local park or cleaning up a cemetery, it helps you build up community rapport and puts you around your players at the same time. Your family can get involved, too. (Community service is a good way to give back, and it also makes it hard for people to root against you. You may be a son-of-a-b*tch on Friday night, but you're also that same S.O.B. that dusted off the headstone of someone's grandfather. That stuff goes a long way). Regardless of the amount of success you have had to this point, lacking in the rapport area is something that can come back and bite you. If nothing I wrote above is feasible, find some strategies that work for you. Though you don't have to change who you are, you do have to find a way to draw players as close as you're comfortable with. Just think, if you've been successful without much rapport building, imagine how much better you'd be if you did.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Mar 31, 2015 20:05:29 GMT -6
Agreed with above-
You state that it isn't you and you're guarded...you don't have to change to connect with people. You have to make effort to do so though. I worked for a guy who was just a flat-out weirdo...social disaster in my opinion. He did TREMENDOUS things to connect with kids without getting all huggy and out of his comfort zone. The effort is what will win people over in many cases...not all of them but who the hell can make everyone happy? If you don't make effort it is VERY apparent to people.
I am not by any way trying to bash you- I post on this site to genuinely try to help people so please don't take this wrong. Unless you embrace this relationship/public figure thing fully, much like a CEO or face of any successful venture out there, you will continue to struggle with this apparent relationship issue. You WILL have to get out of your comfort zone. Here's an example- Me being a HC of 2 sports and my wife being a administrator in our district has completely changed our lives. We no longer can go to the local pubs because kids frequently eat there with their families. We can't cut it loose like we want to at weddings because we are public faces in this community. We never stay long when we go to staff parties etc...we just make an appearance. But it's what we signed up for- as Coach Vint stated it is OUR calling so we embrace it. You are the HC, whether you like it or not this is something you will have to do.
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Post by Coach Bennett on Apr 1, 2015 6:58:33 GMT -6
You are who you are. If you don't desire to do anything different (and that's for you to decide/wrestle with), then I'd be upfront with the perception of you that you're struggling with when addressing parents/athletes. At that point you'll either be accepted as a forthright coach who is honest or you'll be closing out your career at your current gig.
There are a ton of great ideas on here about how to connect and what you "should" do but at the end of the day those are only opinions too, even if they are held by the majority.
Good luck.
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Post by natenator on Apr 1, 2015 7:03:34 GMT -6
I assume Coach Vint's post was good, IDK, I teach math and it was too long for me to read after about 2 paragraphs and there weren't any numbers in it. I LOL'd
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Post by utchuckd on Apr 1, 2015 7:30:40 GMT -6
I understand your thoughts on your personality and priorities (I can relate), but as Head Coach(?) of a co-op team part of the responsibility, imo, is to make sure the players from the other schools know you consider them as much a part of your team as the ones from your school. I'm just a middle school coach, but its the only middle school team here in the county, and we have 5 K-8 elementary schools in smaller communities out in the county so any of their kids that want to play have play with us. It doesn't take much, but I make an effort to make sure I'm going to them to be seen occasionally outside of football season. One or two basketball games a week in the winter, maybe set up a morning meeting once a month at that school to keep in touch (bring doughnuts and you'll be the most caring SOB ever). To me it's just part of the job in that situation, and you can do it without sacrificing your family time or raising their kids for them.
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Post by jlenwood on Apr 1, 2015 11:12:06 GMT -6
larrymoe you sound like a guy I used to coach with. All of the players just thought he was a hard a$$, everything was black or white - no in between kind of guy. Yet in our staff meetings and with the coaches he was a plesent guy to be around. The kids never saw that and to this day they all think he was a prick. I am sure they respected him, but they never saw any other side of him.
I won't dare tell you "you need to do this", but I will give you a couple of real life examples of what coaching styles can mean to a kid, and I will use my own son for an example. When I went on a recruiting trip with him, the HC we met with said something that really resonated with me. He said that to every incoming freshman he tells them if they commit to him for the 4 years they are there, he will commit to them, and they will have a coach for life.
I have always felt that way towards my players, but until I heard him articulate it I never really had a direction to what I was doing for the players. This got such a positive response from my son, that I stole the quote and used it with every kid I coached after that...and I meant it. I always keep in touch as much as possible, like others thru twitter and just seeing kids around when they are back from school. I am not making a Christmas card list, but I do make it a point to touch base on occasion.
On the negative side, again using my son as the example, he wanted to start working out for baseball as he was going to be leaving the JC he is going to and transfering to finish school at a school that has a very good baseball program. He is a very good baseball player and told me he was interested in trying to make a go of it as a walkon or something. I said contact your former HS coach and see if he could work out with you or help out some way. The response he got was that my son would have to contact the AD and do this and do that. My repsonse would have been, hey a former player is wanting to further their career, how can I help. The perception my son took away from this was the baseball coach was more than happy to have my son help him win a ton of baseball games, but when he wanted something....all you heard was crickets.
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mc140
Sophomore Member
Posts: 207
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Post by mc140 on Apr 1, 2015 11:12:41 GMT -6
Showing up for other sporting events your players play goes a long way. Just talking about how their (insert sport) season is going is very helpful.
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Post by coachmonkey on Apr 1, 2015 12:57:46 GMT -6
I don't disagree with anything any of you say. I just don't know that that is me. I'm a pretty guarded person who likes to keep as much as humanly possible private and not said. I am fiercely loyal to those that are loyal to me, but not in a public everyone can see kind of way. That's not me or my style. Perhaps that needs to change, but I also struggle with whether or not it's worth it. Frankly, I didn't take this job to parent other people's kids. Be a good role model, teach them life skills, teach them work ethic, etc? Yes. Parent them? No. I frequently struggle with whether or not I want to continue coaching because of this expected added layer to the job. I don't think it's my job to fulfill the lower rungs of Maslow's Hierarchy. So I guess, in that regard, I don't care about them. I think part of the issue, and this was told to me by one of my assistants, is that our coop kids never see me outside football situations. In football season I'm pretty cold, motivated, frequently what many perceive as angry and pretty tunnel visioned on what needs to happen next either at practice or in games. Many of my former players have said that in season and out of season I'm two entirely different people. I think the people at my school see that side of me and the realize that football me isn't me the other portion of my life. I have never had a complaint like this from a kid that goes to the school I teach at. They see me as the overall pretty happy, joke making dad who works his butt off every day and does the best I can. Apparently to a lot of the coop schools I come off as some football cyborg. I guess really, I struggle with what the perception of the word caring is. Do I want to be a surrogate father? No, if that's what "caring" is. I am certainly not going to screw my own children out of a father so I can clean up other people's messes. Do I care in that my program is a good one that teaches things they can use later in life? Yes, and I hope that they value it and find lessons from it for ever. I'm really confused and blindsided by this entire situation. I'm not going to go through the "this is what I think you need to do" or anything like that and I assume Coach Vint's post was good, IDK, I teach math and it was too long for me to read after about 2 paragraphs and there weren't any numbers in it. In your post I quoted above, something that stands out to me that is an issue based on where you are is: "never see me outside football situations" - from personal observations, I know some guys who have been fired for this reason even though their record was good and in a few cases, very good. As we have taken this new job 3.5 hours away and I've been going up on the weekends, a recurring comment around the watering hole is everyone like the previous HC but he didn't live in the community, no one ever saw him "out and about", etc. Even though in 7 years they made the playoffs 6 times, including last season and a few times made deep runs...he was fired. Now I don't know him and I'm not here to talk positive or negative about him. All I'm saying is you have to be careful because different communities have different expectations of their HFC. At my first coaching job, no one cared if the HFC lived in the community let alone take part in anything going on in it. At my 2nd job, same thing. At my HC job, it was obvious that I needed to be involved in the community. It was obvious because they said it in those words. At my 4th job, again, obvious that we needed to be involved. Heading into my 5th job, they said it up front. I think you are over dramatizing the situation. Right now they are upset that you don't care, all that...so ANYTHING you do that shows you do care will be appreciated. Just throw a crumb out there. IDK chit, go to a baseball game or something. I'm assuming you have Greeting cards as a HC, write some stuff down, get a student assistant to find addresses and to fill out the envelops and mail them out. Something simple like "Hope your first year at Michigan State is going well. Don't forget our locker room is always open to you if you need anything, Family doesn't graduate." They are parents and community - think big kindergarten crayons and stick to the 8 basic colors. Agree. Try to make it a point to attend their other athletic contests, tell them good job after the game etc. That will go a long way. You can probably even sit by yourself and not have to talk to people. Just being there shows you care about how they do in something other than football. You could bring your kids and support area athletics and spend family time together. It's a win-win.
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Post by wolfden12 on Apr 1, 2015 13:04:02 GMT -6
I try to do several things.
1. Send former players (who are playing in college) a care package from us at the start of camp. This includes hand-written letter, t-shirt and some odds and ends I feel they can use in college. 2. Social media (text, twitter or email) to with them a Happy Birthday and a Happy Holiday for all holidays 3. Former players who play at the next level, photo recognition on our board in the locker room. 4. Invite and sideline privilege to all home games 5. Random texts to see how their doing
It is tough. I try to stay in the loop and reiterate to them if they need ANYTHING to let me know. I want them to know that they always can count on me for a reference, job help, tutor, talk etc. The dynamic of society now is taking young people in a lot of different directions and not always having a stable home or role models.
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Post by fballcoachg on Apr 3, 2015 15:41:01 GMT -6
You don't care, at least not the way they want you too. Do you want to change that or not? My guess is no because you keep saying it isn't you so either keep doing what you are doing and live with the reputation or make the minimal effort to show up to other school events and take interest in their outside lives.
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