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Post by larrymoe on Mar 30, 2015 15:53:42 GMT -6
Recently, the perception has been lobbed out of me that I don't care about players after HS. Now, I have not heard this from the source about why this perception exists, but apparently it is real.
My questions are this- How does one "show" they care about students after HS? and Does it matter and why?
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Post by fantom on Mar 30, 2015 16:01:05 GMT -6
Recently, the perception has been lobbed out of me that I don't care about players after HS. Now, I have not heard this from the source about why this perception exists, but apparently it is real. My questions are this- How does one "show" they care about students after HS? and Does it matter and why? Sure it matters but I don't really know how you show that.
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Post by olcoach53 on Mar 30, 2015 16:06:28 GMT -6
Don't worry about the one jackass talking crap. Care about the kids like you have been and forget the naysayer.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 30, 2015 16:06:58 GMT -6
I don't either.
I mean, I care, but at the same time, I have a new team every year.
I don't know what the hell "showing someone you care" looks like. I mean, I show every single day and do my best. Isn't that a pretty good sign that I care?
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 30, 2015 16:07:34 GMT -6
Don't worry about the one jackass talking crap. Care about the kids like you have been and forget the naysayer. The issue is it isn't one kid. Unfortunately it has become quite a few kids.
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Post by fantom on Mar 30, 2015 16:23:07 GMT -6
Don't worry about the one jackass talking crap. Care about the kids like you have been and forget the naysayer. The issue is it isn't one kid. Unfortunately it has become quite a few kids. Unfortunately, this can happen. The guy who didn't get a schollie because he had a 1.8 and didn't take the SAT? Your fault. The guy whose mom and dad think that Big Ten schools give schollies to 5'9" 180 lb. linebackers? That's on you, bro. Didn't give one of your limited paid jobs to a youth coach? Don't drink beer with the right guys in the right bar? What an a$$hole. If you stay around long enough the malcontents will get after you.
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Post by coach2013 on Mar 30, 2015 16:24:26 GMT -6
Maybe you said something about a kid who has graduated and it got back to him.
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Post by coachwoodall on Mar 30, 2015 16:39:46 GMT -6
I kind of fall in with phantom, how do you show it? I mean, I'm at the school every year on the the first day of class. I'm in the weight room all the time. I'm at all the 7-7 on those summer evenings. I'm at all the games, even the ones that are the yawners.
That being said, I do usually send out an "I'm Thankful" text around Thanksgiving to all my former players. I don't Facebook/twitter/instagram/etc.... so that is the extent of my social media profile. I have about 1/2 the kids that don't respond and I chalk that up to the fact that their number has probably been dumped for not paying the bill. However, I did have a kid that played for me in 2008 and went DI finally text me back this Christmas for the first time, so I'm sure they just too busy.
Our 'exit interview' statement is that we will alway s be here for, just come by the weight room and check in every once in a while.
Then the ball is in their court.
If some folks in the community are saying/facebooking/twittering/etc... this crap, my reply would be along the lines of paragraph number 1.
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Post by lochness on Mar 30, 2015 17:58:03 GMT -6
As always, people are a$$holes and just looking for a reason to tear a coach down. Nothing you can do about it. "Fix" this perception, and they'll just come at you for something else. Don't waste time worry about it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 19:01:17 GMT -6
I don't think it hurts to do a little self analysis but the most common criticisms I hear of all coaches are...
They only play their favorites....(#1 by far)
The don't do enough to help kids get recruited/scholarships...
They use the same playbook they did when they started x years ago...
The only care about winning....
The don't care about what happens to the kids after they are done playing...
I would like a dime for every time I have heard these comments. And most of the time about coaches that I know personally and I know are very fair and care deeply about the kids. Coaches receive far more public criticism than any profession I know.
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Post by natenator on Mar 30, 2015 19:11:08 GMT -6
Coaches receive far more public criticism than any profession I know. Politician or lawyer? Lol
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 20:11:01 GMT -6
Coaches receive far more public criticism than any profession I know. Politician or lawyer? Lol On a local basis I'll still say coaches. Also Pete Carroll probably got more criticism after that goal line pass than most Presidents receive for their decisions.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Mar 30, 2015 20:29:21 GMT -6
Don't worry about the one jackass talking crap. Care about the kids like you have been and forget the naysayer. The issue is it isn't one kid. Unfortunately it has become quite a few kids. Interesting that you mention this as I just had this conversation with a fellow coach and friend of mine. He was also accused of not keeping ties with his former players. He thought that I did a good job of it (at least that was his impression), and he asked me what I do. The first thing I did was correct him. I'm not very good at keeping up with former players. One thing I do is I tell them this: 'look, when you leave here, I'm going to be putting as much effort into another kid as I did into you. Meaning, I won't have a lot of time to look you up. If you need anything, you call me. If you need to see me, come see me. My door is always open, and I love you.' I'm sure larrymoe, you've said something along those lines to players after they've left your ranks. The truth is, the relationship after they leave isn't much different then when they are in school meaning, it's a relationship that is a two-way street. I don't have twitter, FB, snapchat, or any other social media out there. But when I'm having a few beers and I'm on my couch by myself, I'll look up former players, shoot them a couple quick texts to check in, and that's it. It's all I have time for. When all is said and done, it is up to the player to reach back to stay connected as much as it is for the coach to reach out. They just have to understand that us reaching out doesn't happen as much as they'd like, but it doesn't mean we don't care as much as we always have. JMO.
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Post by olinecoach61 on Mar 30, 2015 20:43:14 GMT -6
We do a few things - We have a Twitter and Facebook account to relate program info We have one coach whose job it is to stay in touch with our alumni - we've established an email list and send out four or five group emails a season highlighting how the team is doing, when fundraisers are running, what the next big game is etc. as kids graduate we add them to the list This year we had an alumni night where we invited them back and recognized them before the game and gave them a nice t shirt We also stress the idea that once you've gone through our program you are always a part of the program. "once a knight, always a knight"
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 31, 2015 5:45:52 GMT -6
Maybe you said something about a kid who has graduated and it got back to him. I say things about kids who graduate all the time. Usually as an attempt to try to show these kids where they went wrong and how to not end up like them, or to hold them up as an example of what should be done. Unfortunately, we don't have many of the latter around here lately. But again, does it matter? And if it does, why? They're not my kids. When did this job become about raising 50 kids? I guess I could be fake and act like I care deeply, but in reality I don't. And I would wager that people that say they do, don't either. I doubt any coach knows what 90% of any given roster is doing a decade after they coach them. My job, as I see it, is to do my best for them while I have them. Provide them a good program which will hopefully teach them something about work ethic, how to do things right, and essentially how to operate as an adult human being inside of an entity bigger than themselves. That's all I can do, and that's all I will do. This idea that I need to follow them like I'm their father is idiotic.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 31, 2015 5:54:08 GMT -6
As always, people are a$$holes and just looking for a reason to tear a coach down. Nothing you can do about it. "Fix" this perception, and they'll just come at you for something else. Don't waste time worry about it. If this were some random ahole on the sideline, I wouldn't give it 2 seconds of consideration. But it's not. It's about 80% of the kids we get from one of the three schools in our coop.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Mar 31, 2015 6:13:26 GMT -6
I judge my own performance in this area based on the number of weddings, Christenings, and birthdays that I'm invited to, not on the opinion of someone who is remotely connected to the program.
Again, I'm not the greatest in this area, but (just a few days ago) I received a wedding invitation from a QB that I have not seen or talked to in close to 10 years.
When you can draw on experiences like that, use it to shut the mouths of the naysayers.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Mar 31, 2015 6:33:23 GMT -6
This is a tough question. Here are some general suggestions: -Alumni newsletter linked to your team twitter/website/facebook for those who you have lost contact with -Alumni Spotlight section...a "where are they now" type article highlighting a few former players each month/quarter etc -Alumni gatherings at a local restaurant/pub; get the old heads together- if you didn't coach them who cares...you become the guy who provides the stage for them to reunite One thing we are going to do is when we return to the playoffs (hopefully this upcoming season after a 10 year hiatus) we are going to strip off one side of our helmet stickers and replace our current logo with the one used by our last playoff team...I've spoken with an alumni from that playoff team and he said the old heads will go bat$hit crazy over this. I LOVE the idea of tying the past teams to the present, and this is a great way to openly show the community that we respect those who came before us larrymoe you mentioned "in reality you don't care..." I think there lies the problem. I inherited a program that has underachieved on the field and in the classroom for the past 15-20 years for the most part. Hell, I coached some of these years in this program and it was frustrating as hell. But you know what? From every 2-8, 3-7 team during that span there are kids out there from those teams doing great things and you NEED to highlight that. We are entrusted to be the face/spokesperson/curator of this football family that dates back long before we were here. It's part of your job. So yes, you may have to act interested/excited about some people you are not personally connected to. Also- stop any bashing of former players. The fact they underachieved or whatever doesn't matter. The current kids hear you talk bad about a former player and think- "this guy only cares about us because we play for him" and "I wonder if he'll talk about me like that when I'm gone." Sounds like you are making the problem worse by doing this.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 31, 2015 7:06:07 GMT -6
How do you correct the path of some people if you don't show them what can happen if they don't change their ways?
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Post by lochness on Mar 31, 2015 7:28:38 GMT -6
As always, people are a$$holes and just looking for a reason to tear a coach down. Nothing you can do about it. "Fix" this perception, and they'll just come at you for something else. Don't waste time worry about it. If this were some random ahole on the sideline, I wouldn't give it 2 seconds of consideration. But it's not. It's about 80% of the kids we get from one of the three schools in our coop. I don't know coach...its a tough one. You're only one man who potentially would be tracking hundreds and hundreds of young men. The former players would only need to track down you (two-way street thing). And, your primary responsibility is to the current players in your program.
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Post by lions23 on Mar 31, 2015 7:49:12 GMT -6
Here are some things we do that are also admittedly self serving.
Any player that goes on to play college football at any level has an 8x10 of them in their college uniform hanging in the locker room. We have done the same for military. I used to have to chase them down for the pictures but now they want them up so they get them to me. It's good for recruiting talent in the hallway. Admins love it bc you can visually see success. Easy to point up to that guy and teach a lesson to current kids. Defines success as in a different way.
Our 12 th man club posts updates on former players on their Facebook page. They are in touch more with those kids bc their boys' are buddies. So if you aren't on social media you can get your boosters to do it without much effort.
These things are superficial and admittedly self serving but I think in today's day in age with the ease of self marketing you need to do some things like this that keep up a positive public image.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Mar 31, 2015 8:08:06 GMT -6
Here's what I do for "alumni" of the program. Every spring we have had a "Senior BBQ" well now we're going to have an "Alumni BBQ" at a spring practice. It will help keep them in touch with you and each other. I also have what I call a Fakebook account. I made a Facebook I only use to keep up with players- current and alumni.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 31, 2015 8:16:11 GMT -6
Recently, the perception has been lobbed out of me that I don't care about players after HS. Now, I have not heard this from the source about why this perception exists, but apparently it is real. My questions are this- How does one "show" they care about students after HS? and Does it matter and why? Coach, are they suggesting that you don't care what will happen about your current HS student-athletes outside the realm of their usefulness to them? As in, you don't care what WILL happen to them once they are finished HS? Or are they suggesting that you no longer have an interest in your ex-players, only current.
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Post by joelee on Mar 31, 2015 8:29:54 GMT -6
I follow a few of my favorite guys on facebook and twitter, but just like the majority of people we don't talk a fraction as much as we used to. They are busy with life and so am I.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 31, 2015 8:51:41 GMT -6
Recently, the perception has been lobbed out of me that I don't care about players after HS. Now, I have not heard this from the source about why this perception exists, but apparently it is real. My questions are this- How does one "show" they care about students after HS? and Does it matter and why? Coach, are they suggesting that you don't care what will happen about your current HS student-athletes outside the realm of their usefulness to them? As in, you don't care what WILL happen to them once they are finished HS? Or are they suggesting that you no longer have an interest in your ex-players, only current. I don't honestly know. This has just sort of been put on me in the past couple days. I don't really know a lot of details about it. Part of the issue with this other school is that it is also rumor central. This is just one of the latest, but apparently it is legit.
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Post by blb on Mar 31, 2015 9:07:40 GMT -6
Could this be a case where past players from one of your Co-ops believe you favored kids from one or both of the others, and are using this device to criticize you in spite of your success?
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Post by fbs on Mar 31, 2015 9:11:46 GMT -6
I've heard of people getting this reaction when seniors get their feelings hurt in the springtime when they aren't necessarily the priority anymore. this is when they realize that you're putting all your time into the program and not necessarily them.
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Post by oriolepower on Mar 31, 2015 9:17:33 GMT -6
As always, people are a$$holes and just looking for a reason to tear a coach down. Nothing you can do about it. "Fix" this perception, and they'll just come at you for something else. Don't waste time worry about it. If this were some random ahole on the sideline, I wouldn't give it 2 seconds of consideration. But it's not. It's about 80% of the kids we get from one of the three schools in our coop. I think the fact you are in a 3 school coop doesn't help. If you see kids everyday at a HS or in a community it is easier. It is really difficult to stay in touch with an athlete that doesn't do something to aid in the communication, especially if you aren't even in the same community. Ultimately Coach you need to be you. I mean that if it bothers you, ask a few players that you may see from time to time what you can do. Be happy to see former players, be genuine and excited. If that isn't you, than just do what you do. You can't control how other people feel. If a former athlete knows I care, I don't care what his parents think.
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Post by Coach Bennett on Mar 31, 2015 9:23:58 GMT -6
I write our staff after the season and include our roster. I tell them that I don't know what sort of influence I'll have for our seniors, but I'm happy to help in whatever social/academic/behavioral realm I can.
Larrymoe...in a different post you described our generation as grunge listening anti-socials. I hear you on many levels. If, however, that's true and it still persists on some level, why not embrace an element of it? Something like, "I'm going to give you everything I've got while you're here and then it's up to you to follow your own path and write your own history."
That didn't come out great but if you really don't care (in the sense of the impossibility of it all) embrace it upfront. Not sure if that made sense but...
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Post by Coach Vint on Mar 31, 2015 10:08:22 GMT -6
I am not casting stones, but I am about to be very honest. If you really don't care about the kids you coach, you just answered your own question. When your players say you don't care about them after high school, what they are really saying is you didn't care about them during high school.
Coaching is about much more than teaching a sport. The same way that teaching is about much more than the results of a state mandated test or whether a kid can calculate and algebra equation. It is about teaching kids to be the very best that they can be, and that they can do more than what they think they can. And it all starts with relationships. I watched my dad coach when I was growing up, and the love he had for his players was unconditional. He was a master at building relationships with kids that lasted a lifetime. Nick Saban says, teaching is about "inspiring learning."
It is much bigger than just sending a text to a kid or an email blast. It is about caring for the kid outside of sport. it is about learning about his home life and background. it is about learning their hopes and dreams and fears and goals. I talked to guys my dad coached 40 years ago and they talk about him in very high regard. And they never mention a win or a loss. They talk about how he helped them through difficult situations they faced in their personal lives. These are things that are not out in the public eye. Part of building relationships is about being available.
Many times I asked my dad why he taught and coached, and he never talked about winning and losing. He talked about giving kids something to believe in so you can impact them through sport, improving their life after sport. Do you care about the Jersey, or the Player wearing the jersey? Do you care about the kid as much when he is in ISS as much as you do when he is scoring touchdowns? Do you cast kids away when they make a mistake, or do you reel them in for a teachable moment?
If you don't really care, it is nearly impossible to build these relationships. It starts with wanting the very best for every kid you coach. It is about loving them unconditionally. It is about caring about them for who they are, not what they can do. It is about looking deep inside each kid and finding the gold inside. We can't give them greatness, they already have it. Our job is to pull it out of them. And again, it all goes back to relationships. If they know you care about them, and I mean truly care about them as more than a player on your team, they will play their hearts out.
Why is this important? Because someone has to fill the void that left by the absence of fathers. Most of the kids we teach and coach don't have a relationship with their father. For most of them, we are the only positive male role models they might have in their life. We may be the only adult male role model who truly cares about them and loves them unconditionally. Many of our young people are surrounded by adults who break promises. We have an opportunity to be someone they can trust.
One thing I have learned is to never, ever talk negative about a player in public. It does not do you any good personally or professionally. It builds a disdain and a distrust within your current and former players. Guys are going to talk and share information. Imagine what you would think if you ran into a former colleague and he told you your former boss said you were a lazy S.O.B. with no heart... How would you feel? What if that same colleague came up to you and said, your former boss said even though you didn't see eye to eye he said he always loved and respected X, Y, and Z about you... Which is more effective? If you are going to use an example of a former player, leave out the name. Or, bring back the former player to share his story. Let him educate your players. But never, ever say something negative about a former player, even if it is for an example without their permission ahead of time.
Tell your players you love them, then back it up with your actions. If they make a mistake, coach them through it. Tell them you believe in them, and remind them of this often. Ask them about their family... and then listen to what they say. Hold them accountable for their actions and explain to them how it benefits them in the long run to be held accountable. This doesn't mean berate them in public. It means privately talking to them about the behavior and telling them why you are holding them accountable.
Take 5 minutes a day, three days a week and have a character talk. Have a different coach deliver the message each time, and keep it to 5 minutes. Bring in former players to give the talk. This will be meaningful to the players.
But again, this all comes back to if you don't care. If you don't really care, then you may want to make a career change. If you don't care whether Johnny has food on the table, or you don't care whether Bill became a good father, then your players are right.
The biggest regrets I have don't have to do with a play call or a why we lost a game. They have to do with how I might have handled a situation differently. They have to do with the crappy example I set on handling adversity. They have to do with the stuff I said to and about kids. There are kids that I had a chance to impact and I chose to take the easy way out and break them down. Why? Because I didn't care. I had a chance to build them up and help them to believe in themselves. I let my ego get in the way of this opportunity.
There are some who would say this doesn't work. This is all kumbaya. That would be patently false. We coach our kids hard. We hold them accountable for every little detail. If we don't do something right, we do it again. But we try to do this without breaking them down. We work hard to coach with passion and enthusiasm each and every day. We bring energy and try to set that example for our kids. We don't sugarcoat things. We tell them the truth, but we do so with a twist about how it can change. We add that we believe in them. As John Wooden said, "a coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment." If you constantly break your kids down, they will play like they are broken down. More importantly, they will live their life broken down.
The best part about this is that change is a choice. How we coach is a choice. How much we care is a choice. I make mistakes each day. Yesterday I said something to a kid I had to apologize for. I told him I shouldn't have said what I said and asked for his forgiveness. He responded that he forgave me. We hugged. He said, "thank you coach." I told him I loved him. He repeated it back. Our relationship is now strengthened because of it. He knows I care about him, and I modeled for him what you do when you make a mistake. Some would say that showed weakness. I would tell you that something like that shows great strength. That kid can now use that lesson when he is a husband or father and makes a mistake.
That is the real goal. What can we do to build young men that will be great husbands and fathers? What can we do to help them achieve more than they once thought possible What can we do to help them believe that they can overcome adversity they will face in life? And that all starts with the relationships you build.
It isn't easy. It takes time. But it is worth it. You will leave a legacy that will last generations. You will have students and athletes that will look to you for advice for years to come. You will have guys that come back and visit and thank you for things you didn't even realize they caught. You will have guys come up to you that you may have had to remove from the program years ago tell you thank you for teaching them a valuable lesson. Not for kicking them out, but for the way you handled it because you cared. They may not have realized it at the time, but ten years later they see that you really were looking out for them. You will have them call you and say thank you for teaching them how to deal with the loss of their father.
When you send a text you will send it from the heart. You will check in on them from time to time. You won't reach out to every player per say, but you will reach out to some. You will reach out to them because you really want to know how they are doing. They know you are busy, and you know they are busy. But that thoughtful hand written note or text is meaningful if they know you cared about them when you coached them.
Coaching is not a job. It is a calling. I truly believe we are called to coach, and to use coaching to change lives. If you don't care about kids, then you may want to find a career that doesn't offer such an opportunity to impact them. Maybe look at being a banker or truck driver.
I am going to get off of my soap box. I just felt the need to share that, and it came from the heart.
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