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Post by shocktroop34 on Feb 21, 2015 14:00:08 GMT -6
What are some things (both physically/mentally/verbally) that you do to prepare your team when you are not favored?
I've always tried to emulate making practice more intense than the game, which is not always easy to do.
I also know that certain techniques are based on the nature of the coach and the nature of the team.
Nevertheless, I could use some feed back in this area.
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Post by groundchuck on Feb 22, 2015 7:06:13 GMT -6
I guess we don't really change our approach if I think we are favored or not favored. We make every attempt to focus on the fundamentals and the things that are in our control to win/remain competitive throughout the game. One real example is is a few seasons ago were coming in to the last game of the regular season needing a win vs the #1 team in the state. We won 22-6. I think our kids did a great job preparing. We felt confident going in that we could hang with those guys if we played well and they looked past us. Then the big mojo is contagious. We started making plays and they didn't. I don't think we played any mental "head games" with our kids that year. An example of head games though....2013 we were the 6th seed in our section and traveled to the #3 seed. They had just beaten the #1 team in the state by three TDs. They were good. In our meeting before practice (day before game day) I laid out the next week of practice and told them what time the bus left for the second round game. That team needed a shot of confidence to go with the already laser focused prep we had coming into that game. It worked. Did we win because of it? Who knows. I tend to think we won because we were laser focused, and came in with ah chip on our shoulder. So I would say the biggest thing is preparation (scouting, prep team, film study by the players/coaches) both mentally and physically for the game. Don't out coach yourself. You will beat them with your base stuff and a few changes if necessary.
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Post by lochness on Feb 22, 2015 8:01:02 GMT -6
I guess we don't really change our approach if I think we are favored or not favored. We make every attempt to focus on the fundamentals and the things that are in our control to win/remain competitive throughout the game. One real example is is a few seasons ago were coming in to the last game of the regular season needing a win vs the #1 team in the state. We won 22-6. I think our kids did a great job preparing. We felt confident going in that we could hang with those guys if we played well and they looked past us. Then the big mojo is contagious. We started making plays and they didn't. I don't think we played any mental "head games" with our kids that year. An example of head games though....2013 we were the 6th seed in our section and traveled to the #3 seed. They had just beaten the #1 team in the state by three TDs. They were good. In our meeting before practice (day before game day) I laid out the next week of practice and told them what time the bus left for the second round game. That team needed a shot of confidence to go with the already laser focused prep we had coming into that game. It worked. Did we win because of it? Who knows. I tend to think we won because we were laser focused, and came in with ah chip on our shoulder. So I would say the biggest thing is preparation (scouting, prep team, film study by the players/coaches) both mentally and physically for the game. Don't out coach yourself. You will beat them with your base stuff and a few changes if necessary. Boom.
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Post by fantom on Feb 22, 2015 8:52:58 GMT -6
Don't out coach yourself. I've done it. If you do this long enough you probably have or will, even when you should know better. Usually the result is not the signature upset that you hoped for. Instead you end up with confused kids (and coaches) so that rather than just a loss, you end up with a butt-ugly crushing.
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Post by fcboiler87 on Feb 22, 2015 8:54:41 GMT -6
I agree with groundchuck.
One thing that we do is we "train" to beat those type of teams on our schedule all year. So it's a verbal thing that we put in their heads all year long. When we are doing something particularly tough or difficult in training, we might say "This is tough, but not as tough as X OPPONENT." Or "It will take even more than this to beat OPPONENT Y." Everyone has those few teams each year that are always at the top of their game. We train physically and mentally with the goal in mind to be able to beat those teams at all times. It's just something we always talk about so the idea is that it's drilled into their heads.
The week of the game? Business as usual. Because of how we treat it all year, the kids understand the impact of the game that week. We'll talk about having extra focus and everything. But we don't really do anything too different. You want the kids knowing it's just business and I think that helps them be more prepared knowing and feeling it's just another week.
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Post by coachwoodall on Feb 22, 2015 9:00:23 GMT -6
Ah, the psyche of a 16 year old...... I'll split my first million with you when I right the book....
1-I think chuck has it right, Monday should be a Monday -- we're going to do work today. If you have the team with that mind set then you have them self motivated. Sure you have to pep them up a little here and there, but that is more of a geography question -- you have to be there to know what needs to be done.
2- Will the kids be thinking about the 'big' game? Hades yeah they will. You'll do a disservice if you ignore the reality of it. Address it early as part of your pre scout/install day and then move on with it. Yeah, some times you can make it the 'rally cry of the week', but sometime that backfires, (see #1)
If you're placing high expectations each and every day, in season and out, then it makes these types of game a little easier to deal with from the mental side.
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Post by spreadpowero on Feb 22, 2015 11:07:47 GMT -6
Just like you would for any other game. Treat them all the same.
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Post by jg78 on Feb 22, 2015 11:14:58 GMT -6
Several years ago some reporter asked Nick Saban if they were doing anything special at practice to prepare for an upcoming big game. Saban said, "If we knew a better way to practice, we would have been doing it all year."
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Post by shocktroop34 on Feb 22, 2015 11:40:55 GMT -6
In our meeting before practice (day before game day) I laid out the next week of practice and told them what time the bus left for the second round game. That team needed a shot of confidence to go with the already laser focused prep we had coming into that game. It worked. Did we win because of it? Who knows. Chuck, I don't think you gave yourself enough credit on this. This was a NICE move. I may try this... What was their response (body language, verbal, etc.) when you did this?
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Post by shocktroop34 on Feb 22, 2015 11:48:55 GMT -6
Ah, the psyche of a 16 year old...... I'll split my first million with you when I right the book.... 1-I think chuck has it right, Monday should be a Monday -- we're going to do work today. If you have the team with that mind set then you have them self motivated. Sure you have to pep them up a little here and there, but that is more of a geography question -- you have to be there to know what needs to be done. 2- Will the kids be thinking about the 'big' game? Hades yeah they will. You'll do a disservice if you ignore the reality of it. Address it early as part of your pre scout/install day and then move on with it. Yeah, some times you can make it the 'rally cry of the week', but sometime that backfires, (see #1) If you're placing high expectations each and every day, in season and out, then it makes these types of game a little easier to deal with from the mental side. Deal! That book will be best-seller for sure. The team I have is the most mentally perplexing group I've ever been around. I simply don't know what motivates them for big games. I have tried to down play things and treat it like any other game, like spreadpowero suggested. When I've done that, they get out there and their eyes are like "saucers" (as my dad used to say). The moment is just too big for them. When I try to get them "up" for a big game, the try too hard and end up making more mistakes than ever. Honestly, in our next team meeting, I'm simply going to get their perspective and ask them what they need from me (or the staff) to help them in big games. Is that too condescending or patronizing? Anyone jump in on this, please.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Feb 22, 2015 11:53:38 GMT -6
we might say "This is tough, but not as tough as X OPPONENT." Or "It will take even more than this to beat OPPONENT Y." Everyone has those few teams each year that are always at the top of their game. We train physically and mentally with the goal in mind to be able to beat those teams at all times. I've done this in the past and haven't done it in a while. Thanks for the reminder on this technique.
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agame
Junior Member
Posts: 378
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Post by agame on Feb 22, 2015 13:21:09 GMT -6
where your an underdog, there is zero pressure.. u usually find your practices are really high tempo and smooth and your guys play loose..
ive been on many underdog teams and winning or losing is not always the big picture.. we will have our own goals on gameday.. and when we play those powerhouses,we play hard fundie sound football to the best of our abilities..& we leave with their respect.. cos i`m certain hey prob didnt respect us before..
on the flip side i have coached against underdogs been underprepaired, or overlooked em and have been bitten a few times....
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Post by Coach Miller AZ on Feb 23, 2015 12:23:09 GMT -6
It’s all about attitude. During the season you are going to play who you are scheduled to play. You can’t change that. Breaking the kid’s (and coaches for that matter) tendency to look at records, numbers, etc as a predetermination of the outcome of the game is, in my opinion, the only worthwhile exercise when it comes to the question of being underdog.
We are a new school with a four year old football program playing small ball (8-man ball in a charter / private school specific sanctioning body). Year 1 – all freshmen… year 2, freshmen and sophomores.. etc.. These schools are small enough that there are no JV teams. Last year was our first year with a real crop of seniors. That said – we were still running only 16-20 total players on the team with sophomores and freshmen making a significant chunk of the starting 16, and some of the schools that we will play will have 40 players on the sidelines and almost all juniors and seniors on the field. So… we know what it means to be an underdog.
What do we do? We talk about what it means to be a warrior – that in battle the biggest and strongest team does not always win – but the team with the strongest heart is in the best place to win. I don’t know how many times our boys have heard “it’s not the size of the dog in the fight that matters… it’s the size of the fight in the dog…” We don’t place emphasis on winning or losing the game, but rather on how hard we fight on the field, and how well we execute. We measure those things as well and if/when we play our game we beat teams that on paper we should not beat. Don’t get me wrong – our boys take the field expecting to win. When facing a team that has us out-numbered more than 2:1 they step on the field expecting to break them down and take the win from them.
I’d like to think that if our 20 kids who play 8 man ball out of a small charter school got the call to suit up, put together an 11 man play book and take the field against our Division 1 4000+ student neighbor – that they would strap it up and go hit them. Now – I am not suggesting that I would want this or even let it happen – and I am not saying that there would not be parts of the team that would be apprehensive – but I do know that the core of our team would get a gleam in their eye about getting out there and “taking it to them.” If it happened – would we beat them? Almost certainly not – but I’d bet good money that our guys would fight like crazy until the buzzer sounds. I’ve seen them do it. Two years ago we were down to 10 players (from our normal 14 that year) due to injury and some academic issues. We had a game against a team that we had never played who was one division up. We got there and they had 40+ players on the sideline. They did beat us - but our boys fought like crazy and that game is something that was a turning point in that season. I saw some more of it recently at a camp – four of our guys went. We had one 8th grader (incoming freshman) a freshman and two sophomores. This camp was attended by players from some of the biggest / best HS programs in the state. I watched my sophomore LB get worked in an O on D passing challenge by a kid that I understand is a nationally recruited back. I watched him ASK his coach to give him the next rep against that same player, and then come up on the next play and jam the kid disrupting rhythm and causing a drop. 1:1 this back will beat my LB 9:10 times - but I know that 10:10 times my kid will get after him - and I've seen this win us games against teams that were physically superior to us both in terms of age/skill/strength as well as numbers.
Attitude is everything – especially when locking up with a bigger, faster, stronger team.
Just my 2 cents...
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Post by shotgunfivewide55 on Feb 23, 2015 17:14:30 GMT -6
seems to be said pretty well by everyone above. It sends a horrible statement to your kids and coaches when you come in and change a lot of things. Plus as an old coach said to me, the greatest advice I have ever gotten about switching offense and defenses. He said the quickest way to take a senior and make him a freshmen again was to change offenses or defenses, especially in the middle of the season. First thing I tell my kids and coaches is if we are still running our base offense and defense in four or five years from now we would have been successful. we do however have a period each week in which we do work on some trick plays that we keep in reserved for something special that we need.
first, the idea of thinking that you can trick a football team for a whole game is crazy in and off it self second, you waste an entire week of practice when you could spend that week getting better for the other teams you are going to play third, the strategy of eat, drink and live it up for tomorrow you die is completely overrated. whatever the perceived short term advantage is lost over the long term
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Post by Yash on Feb 23, 2015 19:27:35 GMT -6
Give the kids cigarettes and blind folds as you are getting off the bus.
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Post by groundchuck on Feb 23, 2015 20:31:49 GMT -6
In our meeting before practice (day before game day) I laid out the next week of practice and told them what time the bus left for the second round game. That team needed a shot of confidence to go with the already laser focused prep we had coming into that game. It worked. Did we win because of it? Who knows. Chuck, I don't think you gave yourself enough credit on this. This was a NICE move. I may try this... What was their response (body language, verbal, etc.) when you did this? Thanks. Yeah The team seemed to be a little more focused and locked in. I don't know. It worked I guess. We executed really well. .
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Post by coachwoodall on Feb 24, 2015 8:15:00 GMT -6
Shock, one thing that might make sense is to think about the 'big game speech' type stuff, and start making it your daily mantra.
If you feel like in order to beat Big Rival HS, you need to have a faster tempo, then you make that the focus of everything you do in the offseason and leading up to the first day of practice. Stress it in the weight room, getting from station to station, during warm ups, getting dressed to work out, getting dressed to go home, tying your cleats.... everything is about tempo.
If it is being mentally tough, then focus of what being 'mentally tough' is in everything you do. If you're in the floor doing core work, don't let them whine and moan; tell them to shut up and focus because that is being mentally tough and bitching and moaning is only adding negativity to those around you. Getting one more rep when you don't think you can is being mentally tough, going outside to do speed work in the cold is being mentally tough, expecting your teammates to be on time to class is etc.....
If it's the simple act of competition, then make everything a competition and get as many eyes on them as often as possible. Whether you are just doing a 1 on 1 sumo competition to finish up a work out, gather everyone around and get them whooping and hollering. Find some 7-7 that winner take all competitions.
I don't think that having an idea of their thoughts and attitudes hurts, but unless they have any experience then more than likely they are looking to you for direction. Find out the pulse of the team, but DCOhio says, sometimes they old saying 'you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drinks' means you might have to drown a few trying. You've got set the pace and set the goal.
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Post by Coach Bennett on Feb 24, 2015 19:23:27 GMT -6
We install exotic formations the week before we're scheduled to play as an underdog in an attempt to steal a couple cheap ones. Tackle over stuff, hiding a receiver at the "tackle" spot, etc.
We're not looking to live in it but certainly can gain an advantage if it's something the superior team hasn't seen us do all year.
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Post by coachdawhip on Feb 24, 2015 20:28:28 GMT -6
I have upset 2 state powers twice in my 2 year career, both from the same town as a matter of fact.
Don't know that we did anything different. I didn't down play the game, I let them know it was a big game. One was in the playoffs, this year my "butt hole did tighten" late 3rd qtr and we were up 27-7, didn't throw the ball again, just wanted to win.
But I tell my kids, they don't expect it, but we do. Confidence.
I mean in the weight room, we have 4 pictures of teams hanging up. My players asked about the other 6, I told them WE EXPECT TO BEAT THEM. We are going to prepare the same way for eveyone, but it's 4 teams on our schedule that we are chasing.
Some of ya'll with agree, most will disagree. But that's how we approach the games and the teams and what works for me.
Kind of our motto this year. Our address, 1 Ram Way. I tell my kids don't know how others do it, but we do it 1 Ram Way, what works here may not work everywhere!
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Post by coachmonkey on Feb 25, 2015 10:24:27 GMT -6
Ah, the psyche of a 16 year old...... I'll split my first million with you when I right the book.... 1-I think chuck has it right, Monday should be a Monday -- we're going to do work today. If you have the team with that mind set then you have them self motivated. Sure you have to pep them up a little here and there, but that is more of a geography question -- you have to be there to know what needs to be done. 2- Will the kids be thinking about the 'big' game? Hades yeah they will. You'll do a disservice if you ignore the reality of it. Address it early as part of your pre scout/install day and then move on with it. Yeah, some times you can make it the 'rally cry of the week', but sometime that backfires, (see #1) If you're placing high expectations each and every day, in season and out, then it makes these types of game a little easier to deal with from the mental side. Deal! That book will be best-seller for sure. The team I have is the most mentally perplexing group I've ever been around. I simply don't know what motivates them for big games. I have tried to down play things and treat it like any other game, like spreadpowero suggested. When I've done that, they get out there and their eyes are like "saucers" (as my dad used to say). The moment is just too big for them. When I try to get them "up" for a big game, the try too hard and end up making more mistakes than ever. Honestly, in our next team meeting, I'm simply going to get their perspective and ask them what they need from me (or the staff) to help them in big games. Is that too condescending or patronizing? Anyone jump in on this, please. It's not a one-size fits all approach. Kids are motivated by different things. Some are driven by rewards, some by intrinsic rewards, in life, and in sports. I think the key is keeping them relaxed. As others said, you have been preparing all year, each week, each practice is devoted to honing the skills necessary to being successful. Every team, no matter how good, at one time, was an underdog. Personally, I try to build each players confidence. As their confidence grows, and the collective team confidence grows, amazing things happen. I believe high school sports are far more mental than most people realize. I build kids up by pointing out areas needing improvement. Pick something simple at first, when they get make a big deal out of it, and progress from there.
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Post by coachmonkey on Feb 25, 2015 10:26:50 GMT -6
I have upset 2 state powers twice in my 2 year career, both from the same town as a matter of fact. Don't know that we did anything different. I didn't down play the game, I let them know it was a big game. One was in the playoffs, this year my "butt hole did tighten" late 3rd qtr and we were up 27-7, didn't throw the ball again, just wanted to win. But I tell my kids, they don't expect it, but we do. Confidence. I mean in the weight room, we have 4 pictures of teams hanging up. My players asked about the other 6, I told them WE EXPECT TO BEAT THEM. We are going to prepare the same way for eveyone, but it's 4 teams on our schedule that we are chasing. Some of ya'll with agree, most will disagree. But that's how we approach the games and the teams and what works for me. Kind of our motto this year. Our address, 1 Ram Way. I tell my kids don't know how others do it, but we do it 1 Ram Way, what works here may not work everywhere! We won a state tittle in high school after having a BFS clinic. They preached, and we bought into a motto. "It doesn't matter who we play. All we have to know is where and when. If we play our best, and they play their best, we will win." Coaches cannot get uptight the week of a big game, kids sense that. I believe teams are a reflection of their coach(es).
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