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Post by veerman on Sept 12, 2006 9:32:19 GMT -6
Did anyone get to see the game between Air Force and Tennessee? I think that game showed that the flexbone triple option can be successful in major college football. Tennessee's defense is as fast as they come in the SEC (one of the toughest confrences in the country), and they could not stop the triple. Would love to see someone try it out in the pros, but will never happen so oh well i love watching it on saterdays.
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Post by tog on Sept 12, 2006 10:20:27 GMT -6
one of these days people will figure that out
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Post by coachdbs on Sept 12, 2006 11:22:57 GMT -6
We just added flexbone this year to compliment split-back. We visited with Muskegon coaching staff. They really do a lot of different things with it and very exciting to watch. Wish more D1 college programs ran it!
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Post by saintrad on Sept 12, 2006 21:55:18 GMT -6
yes, but did you notuce that Tennesse "figured it out" on the two point conversion.
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
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Post by tedseay on Sept 13, 2006 6:50:46 GMT -6
Saint: Given the talent disparity, I'm surprised the Vols didn't "figure it out" by more than one point... ;D  ;D Total props to the AFA for hanging tough against the big boys. |
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Post by groundchuck on Sept 13, 2006 11:03:25 GMT -6
I heard Stoops at OK say once he hated prepping for option teams. That being said I think that sometime soon Paul Johnson or someone else will make a big splash in one of the power conferences. The trick will be athletes. To compete week in and week out in the SEC a coach will need athletes. He has to be able to recruit and retain those athletes. But I would think if you can recruit a kid like Vince Young to run your flexbone watch out.
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Post by brophy on Sept 13, 2006 11:15:27 GMT -6
I heard Stoops at OK say once he hated prepping for option teams. That being said I think that sometime soon Paul Johnson or someone else will make a big splash in one of the power conferences. The trick will be athletes. To compete week in and week out in the SEC a coach will need athletes. He has to be able to recruit and retain those athletes. But I would think if you can recruit a kid like Vince Young to run your flexbone watch out. I agree, but I believe those "athletes" are looking one step ahead and looking for the schools that will showcase them to the NFL. How many quality receivers was Nebraska able to recruit in the 90's? |
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Post by veerman on Sept 13, 2006 11:57:51 GMT -6
I agree, but thats what I love about the option. I think Herb Brooks said it best "I'm not looking for the best players I'm looking for the right ones". I think at a big time program the thing that would benifit the option the most would be the defense. The option can work just fine with lesser athletes, but you have to have a defense that can stop people and keep you out of bad field position. To me thats the big difference with the option teams in college. Their programs are small so they can not recruit the best defensive personel. At the big time programs they would not have to worry about that.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 13, 2006 12:11:15 GMT -6
Alot of smaller schools are going with the 3-3-5 to make up for the lack of defensive personnel.
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Post by groundchuck on Sept 13, 2006 12:29:53 GMT -6
How many quality receivers was Nebraska able to recruit in the 90's? What about this guy?  Wait...he played in the 80s. Veerman---I think you are right about the defense. As long as the program wins they can recruit talent to play defense regardless of the offense. Also do you think it is a fallacy that "spread teams" WRs fair better in the NFL? Let's say Larry Fitzgerald for example played his college ball at Air Force. DeBerry would still have thrown him the ball, and he still would have been a top draft pick. As long the the reciecer coaches taught/refined his fundamentals he would have still been a dangerous WR. Maybe even more so at the college level b/c the the flexbone dictates the defense do certain things with its coverage thus perhaps allowing him to work 1on1 more. Also WRs for predominantly option teams may not catch as many balls but often times they are for big plays. Finally think of a player like Reggie Bush. A do it all RB. In the flexbone no doubt he would be a slot. Send him out for a pass or motion him and run option. The position where you might have trouble recruiting would be QB. Bonafide NFL QBs would probably not fair well in the option (See Troy Aikman) So then you just have a guy like Dee Dowis or Beau Morgan running the show pitching to a Reggie Bush and throwing downfield off play action to a good WR. Then have a defense like say Ohio State to back it up. |
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turney
Junior Member
Spread'em and Shread'em[F4:coachturney]
Posts: 279
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Post by turney on Sept 13, 2006 14:22:53 GMT -6
Offenses these days are a fad. Right now its the gun pretty soon someone will "reinvent" the triple option or wing t. Then everyone will run to it.
By the way, if anyone is looking for an OC to install the triple option next year drop me a line.
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Post by brophy on Sept 13, 2006 14:36:23 GMT -6
Personally, I love the flexbone, but even if I didn't, I don't see how you cannot marvel at the execution of Navy (ANY year) in running the triple....it is a thing of beauty.
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Post by saintrad on Sept 13, 2006 14:39:58 GMT -6
Saint: Given the talent disparity, I'm surprised the Vols didn't "figure it out" by more than one point... ;D ;D Total props to the AFA for hanging tough against the big boys. Ted- you know as well as anyone on here and you probably know what I am going to sya about that. It was the classic case of a team overlooking an opponent when a bigger game is right after it (Tennesse vs Florida) and unfortunately moral victories down count in the standings. i like the fact that the academies still do well with their teams (being prior army) and like to see them do well, but morale victories are just that...morale victories only. |
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Post by coachmacplains on Sept 14, 2006 7:12:10 GMT -6
Personally, I love the flexbone, but even if I didn't, I don't see how you cannot marvel at the execution of Navy (ANY year) in running the triple....it is a thing of beauty. Oct. 7 in Colorado Springs...AF vs. Navy. Tune in. Should be plenty of beauty when either team has the ball. |
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Post by davecisar on Sept 14, 2006 7:57:59 GMT -6
Re: Air Force shows Flexbone can work
« Reply #6 on Yesterday at 12:15pm »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brophy:
I agree, but I believe those "athletes" are looking one step ahead and looking for the schools that will showcase them to the NFL.
How many quality receivers was Nebraska able to recruit in the 90's?
Irving Fryar was the top pick in the draft one year. NU didnt recruit great recievers, because we didnt need any. We also had some top 5 round TEs, Junior MIller, Johnny Mitchell etc And after Frank Solich took the team, he failed to recruit well or make it a priority and those he did try and recruit were not impressed by him. Now Paul Johnsotn that may be another cup of tea. TODAY he has to convince kids to not only come to his school and offense, but to commit after school is done to risk their lives for their country at war. BTW he has to convince mom and junior to do that, wow what he would do at a Big School would be amazing.
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
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Post by tedseay on Sept 14, 2006 8:17:46 GMT -6
i like the fact that the academies still do well with their teams (being prior army) and like to see them do well, but morale victories are just that...morale victories only. OK, let's stick with the academies. Navy is competitive with anyone short of the top 25 or so, and on a good day can throw a major scare at, say, a Notre Dame. AFA is not quite there at the moment, but are still putting on a hell of a show. Army, OTOH, sucks. Are you telling me that Tennessee would have struggled to put Army away even if the game were sandwiched in between Cal and Florida? I have huge respect for the USMA, but their football program has gone down the wrong road since doing away with the triple option, IMNSHO. There ARE offenses (and defenses) that give underdogs a fighting chance against better opponents, and Navy and Air Force have figured that equation out. That had a lot to do with the Tennessee-AFA final score... |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 14, 2006 14:49:56 GMT -6
I think we have seen a rebirth of the option with Meyer's and his shotgun option attack. It seemed like every other team I watched last year had some facet of the attack in their package. Give it a little time and we may see some under center triple option. If we start seeing more of that, then maybe we'll see a few more flexbone attacks out there.
I think it comes down to changing the media perception about football. I have read so many articles written by idiot sport writers detailing how ineffective the option is. Either that or they're touting the newest aerial display put on by an Air Raid team (no offense, I love the Air Raid). I think if more of them portrayed the running game in a positive light we'd see the publics perception of the game change.
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Post by burtledog on Sept 14, 2006 15:11:11 GMT -6
Do you all remember when Wes Chandler was at UF in the wishbone as was Nat Moore (albeit a college HB). Good SE, TE and HB that can catch can look good in the triple option attack. Lots of Veer Split back guys did ok. And lets remember that many including Ted S have done hybrid triple option and run and shoot attacks.
Greg
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Post by spreadattack on Sept 14, 2006 15:16:07 GMT -6
The option works. Any time you can have two players who can act to make a defender wrong, every time, you are in good shape. Especially since the option also often results in lots of double teams at the point of attack.
As a side note, one of my concerns with the longevity of the Meyer/spread option stuff is that on the zone-read, there is less that guarantees your give will be a success than when you make the right read on the dive/keep. On the typical veer or triple, the dive/keep defender is the key POA defender; on the zone read all you're doing is making sure that the backside pursuit stays home. Not negligible but not quite the same.
Also, I think the pitch read defender also can vary so much with the spread gun option--at least moreso than the typical triple--so there is less certainty that the right read will be a good play. I mean in HS if you have a QB who can make good reads on the triple you can score and score and score. Anyone who has ever coached an option team has experienced that magical "OH MY GOD HE PITCHED IT" moment and seeing your pitch-back streak down the sideline and realizing that your offense is coming together.
Anyway. The spread gun stuff often works because you can show different looks and be "multiple" about it. Of course this may not always be a good thing since it can let defenses disguise things and your QB may not have a good idea of who he is reading.
On coachcb's point, it does appear that Meyer's success with the option is as much marketing as it is scheme or even production. The fact that his QB is in the shotgun makes every sportswriter stand up and see "look how innovative it is!" -- and it is innovative, at least to a point--but it's just running the option which has been around for a long time.
I think the best thing going for option teams is that kids grow up learning how to pass and throw and are doing it more than ever. I think there's truth to the Vince Young--or even Alex Smith--idea that more and more kids can do a little running and passing and be successful, and that kids have been throwing their whole lives and can still do some option. The big constraint continues to be time; great option or passing teams take great commitment to those skills and developing quarterbacks, and teams that try to do too much rarely do everything well.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 15, 2006 8:37:24 GMT -6
Good points spreadattack, you're right on when it comes to the zone read option. We either got stomped by zone read teams or we shut'em down cold- all depending on the TB. I have seen several less prestigous D1A schools run the veer out of the gun. In that case, we have more of a true triple option- it would be cool to see it catch on in a bigger way.
I haven't seen many teams running the shovel option pass recently- did it kind of phase out?
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Post by midlineqb on Sept 15, 2006 20:44:51 GMT -6
Tony Demeo has won with the triple option for years. Started with the wishbone, went to Delaware with Tubby Raymond just to install the triple. He still runs it at the D-II level but out of the shotgun. The true triple.
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Post by Yash on Sept 15, 2006 23:03:05 GMT -6
In response to all the talk about this game, does anyoen have it on tape or DVD, I'd love to trade for it.
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Post by saintrad on Sept 17, 2006 0:00:39 GMT -6
Not arguing that the option doesn't have a place in football or that its not a good offense (former veer option QB talking here). My point was more about how were are still dealing with young men and to start the game out they were probably looking ahead to the Florida game this week, which is ok to say. It happens to all coaches and teams at all levels, that is why they are referred to as "trap games".
Yes the FLEXBONE (option) does work and being a fan of FIsher DeBerry I am GLAD they played well. But, good teams that are well coached and have superior talent will always find ways to win, especially at Neyland at night (big time tradition there), so a morale victory by Air Force (or Furman against UNC tonight) is still an 'L' in the loss column. Definately helped the USAFA build credibility and confidence (which I am glad) and also open a lot of coaches eyes in regards to not taking them lightly either. The game is still played one game at a time and that is the most important lesson for any coach to get from the Air Force - Tennessee game.
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Post by miami5 on Oct 16, 2006 7:31:35 GMT -6
Hello again.
i coach in connecticut, smallest high school playing football.
is there any chance of getting these tapes.
thanks
Greg
ray gregory triple and mid-line tapes
husker power,strength and conditioning
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Post by coachnicholson on Oct 16, 2006 7:57:26 GMT -6
Did anyone happen to see the Navy/Rutgers game?? I was SHOCKED when I saw the score and Navy got shutout.
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Post by utchuckd on Oct 16, 2006 8:09:00 GMT -6
Let me check around and see if I can find somebody who taped the game. Never know when your gonna run across a Vol fan down here that's got every game since 1962.  |
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Post by coachveer on Oct 16, 2006 8:50:31 GMT -6
Navy lost their starting QB to a knee injury early in the 1st qt.
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Post by utchuckd on Oct 16, 2006 10:40:09 GMT -6
Workin on that film. Think I've got a copy comin. If anybody gets CSS they're showing an "all-access" week with Tennessee right now and it's the Air Force week. Nothin real earth shattering but kind of cool.
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Post by tog on Oct 16, 2006 12:00:27 GMT -6
Now Paul Johnsotn that may be another cup of tea. TODAY he has to convince kids to not only come to his school and offense, but to commit after school is done to risk their lives for their country at war. BTW he has to convince mom and junior to do that, wow what he would do at a Big School would be amazing. wait, paul johnston lost this last weekend, maybe he isn't a good coach anymore? |
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Post by utchuckd on Oct 23, 2006 20:49:53 GMT -6
I've got a copy of the Air Force-Tennessee game. If anybody is still interested just pm me.
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;D
