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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 14:43:30 GMT -6
Maybe I am naive but school choice I think gives more kids regardless of income opportunity. Also - I don't think evaluating teachers on test scores is a good idea. They have opportunity at those "bad" schools. It's not like there isn't people there that try or want to teach. They just ignore it. I've worked at a "bad" school once and the teachers there busted their asses to educate those kids. Those kids just flat didn't give a crap. As long as they got their check they didn't give two craps about "opportunity". I worked at a place like that last year. One kid's family would celebrate "check day" like it was Christmas. Just getting kids to school there was a problem. When it came time to certify my test scores, I had one class where literally only 1 kid should have qualified to be counted for or against me because the others all missed over 25% of the school days that year. A lot of them would just skip school to go hunting or smoke pot or whatever. When kid knows he or she isn't going to college and that a HS diploma isn't needed to draw a check and make side money selling drugs or prostituting, then good luck getting that one to give a crap about scores on some test. At the school before that, when I was asking my kids for their plans after HS, one girl who never did crap but pick fights with other kids laid out her plans to have a bunch of babies by different guys to draw the child support and then get on disability, Food Stamps, and Section 8. "When I've got my kids and I'm drawing my check, it'll be like you're working for me! Who's smart now?" She took her big high stakes test at the end of the semester, wrote "F*** You" on it, and then put her head down and slept the whole time. The state says that proves I'm a bad teacher because she didn't score what they thought she should.
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Post by lions23 on Jan 7, 2015 15:59:18 GMT -6
They have opportunity at those "bad" schools. It's not like there isn't people there that try or want to teach. They just ignore it. I've worked at a "bad" school once and the teachers there busted their asses to educate those kids. Those kids just flat didn't give a crap. As long as they got their check they didn't give two craps about "opportunity". I worked at a place like that last year. One kid's family would celebrate "check day" like it was Christmas. Just getting kids to school there was a problem. When it came time to certify my test scores, I had one class where literally only 1 kid should have qualified to be counted for or against me because the others all missed over 25% of the school days that year. A lot of them would just skip school to go hunting or smoke pot or whatever. When kid knows he or she isn't going to college and that a HS diploma isn't needed to draw a check and make side money selling drugs or prostituting, then good luck getting that one to give a crap about scores on some test. At the school before that, when I was asking my kids for their plans after HS, one girl who never did crap but pick fights with other kids laid out her plans to have a bunch of babies by different guys to draw the child support and then get on disability, Food Stamps, and Section 8. "When I've got my kids and I'm drawing my check, it'll be like you're working for me! Who's smart now?" She took her big high stakes test at the end of the semester, wrote "F*** You" on it, and then put her head down and slept the whole time. The state says that proves I'm a bad teacher because she didn't score what they thought she should. Quite of bit of generalizing here IMO. If I were you and it sounds like we worked in similar socioeconomic situations I would look at things a little differently. My evaluator and I am privileged it seems after reading this forum has a saying that he claims that he could be fired for telling me and others. " Try and get 90 percent engagement 90 percent of the time." "There are 10 percent of our kids that are too far gone. Concentrate on the 90 percent." Poverty is a difficult thing to understand. It can be generational for some families so sometimes you and me as teachers and coaches won't see an immediate impact on our kids. Sometimes you don't see them till our students/players have their own kids. Sports especially can let kids in in the power of big picture vision,planning, and follow through. Sports can teach kids how to overcome difficult situations. For every instance of a kid writing FU on a test I could tell you about a girl who gave me a hug before Christmas. I asked what for and she said you are the first person in years that believes in us she is no angel and I don't baby the kids. I have high expectations and challenge them all the time. I could tell you about the kid I coached who saw his father beat his mother and saw him murdered on their porch. He goes on to graduate college get a pilots license and get fought over by different banks. I could tell you about the kid who everyone said would never amount to anything an was taking his whole pack of friends with him. My boss saw a great leader. He became our captain. He is the manager of a Walgreens and he is a good dad now. I could go in with anecdotal stories about amazing kids from bad schools. 90 percent of my kids from "bad" school are good kids. It's not their fault they were born under the circumstances they were born under. That's not to say poor Johnny. But you do have to have to relate with poor Johnny if you are goingtonteach him. It's not that he doesn't care. It's that he doesn't care about the things that many of us adults care about.
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Post by fantom on Jan 7, 2015 16:35:41 GMT -6
I worked at a place like that last year. One kid's family would celebrate "check day" like it was Christmas. Just getting kids to school there was a problem. When it came time to certify my test scores, I had one class where literally only 1 kid should have qualified to be counted for or against me because the others all missed over 25% of the school days that year. A lot of them would just skip school to go hunting or smoke pot or whatever. When kid knows he or she isn't going to college and that a HS diploma isn't needed to draw a check and make side money selling drugs or prostituting, then good luck getting that one to give a crap about scores on some test. At the school before that, when I was asking my kids for their plans after HS, one girl who never did crap but pick fights with other kids laid out her plans to have a bunch of babies by different guys to draw the child support and then get on disability, Food Stamps, and Section 8. "When I've got my kids and I'm drawing my check, it'll be like you're working for me! Who's smart now?" She took her big high stakes test at the end of the semester, wrote "F*** You" on it, and then put her head down and slept the whole time. The state says that proves I'm a bad teacher because she didn't score what they thought she should. Quite of bit of generalizing here IMO. If I were you and it sounds like we worked in similar socioeconomic situations I would look at things a little differently. My evaluator and I am privileged it seems after reading this forum has a saying that he claims that he could be fired for telling me and others. " Try and get 90 percent engagement 90 percent of the time." "There are 10 percent of our kids that are too far gone. Concentrate on the 90 percent." Poverty is a difficult thing to understand. It can be generational for some families so sometimes you and me as teachers and coaches won't see an immediate impact on our kids. Sometimes you don't see them till our students/players have their own kids. Sports especially can let kids in in the power of big picture vision,planning, and follow through. Sports can teach kids how to overcome difficult situations. For every instance of a kid writing FU on a test I could tell you about a girl who gave me a hug before Christmas. I asked what for and she said you are the first person in years that believes in us she is no angel and I don't baby the kids. I have high expectations and challenge them all the time. I could tell you about the kid I coached who saw his father beat his mother and saw him murdered on their porch. He goes on to graduate college get a pilots license and get fought over by different banks. I could tell you about the kid who everyone said would never amount to anything an was taking his whole pack of friends with him. My boss saw a great leader. He became our captain. He is the manager of a Walgreens and he is a good dad now. I could go in with anecdotal stories about amazing kids from bad schools. 90 percent of my kids from "bad" school are good kids. It's not their fault they were born under the circumstances they were born under. That's not to say poor Johnny. But you do have to have to relate with poor Johnny if you are goingtonteach him. It's not that he doesn't care. It's that he doesn't care about the things that many of us adults care about. I don't want to sound cold because I understand everything that you're saying. When I was teaching, though, one thing that this guy cared about a lot was keeping my job. If test scores are being used to evaluate me and help me to keep my job, the fact that a lot of the kids don't care about the test is a real problem for me. The complaint isn't about the kids. Most of the people who go into teaching do so with the intention of helping those kids. The complaint is about political hacks who try to score points by pushing "reforms" like eliminating tenure,instituting high stakes testing, and allowing school choice. They're the ones who are driving young teachers out of the business.
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Post by jsk002 on Jan 7, 2015 17:46:16 GMT -6
In wisconsin you can't transfer after your freshmen year without sitting out. It is a good common sense rule So, if your family moves after your freshmen year you can't play sports for the next 3 years? That's asinine. There would be a waiver for that. It simply eliminates jumping schools for athletics
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Post by jsk002 on Jan 7, 2015 17:48:04 GMT -6
They have opportunity at those "bad" schools. It's not like there isn't people there that try or want to teach. They just ignore it. I've worked at a "bad" school once and the teachers there busted their asses to educate those kids. Those kids just flat didn't give a crap. As long as they got their check they didn't give two craps about "opportunity". I worked at a place like that last year. One kid's family would celebrate "check day" like it was Christmas. Just getting kids to school there was a problem. When it came time to certify my test scores, I had one class where literally only 1 kid should have qualified to be counted for or against me because the others all missed over 25% of the school days that year. A lot of them would just skip school to go hunting or smoke pot or whatever. When kid knows he or she isn't going to college and that a HS diploma isn't needed to draw a check and make side money selling drugs or prostituting, then good luck getting that one to give a crap about scores on some test. At the school before that, when I was asking my kids for their plans after HS, one girl who never did crap but pick fights with other kids laid out her plans to have a bunch of babies by different guys to draw the child support and then get on disability, Food Stamps, and Section 8. "When I've got my kids and I'm drawing my check, it'll be like you're working for me! Who's smart now?" She took her big high stakes test at the end of the semester, wrote "F*** You" on it, and then put her head down and slept the whole time. The state says that proves I'm a bad teacher because she didn't score what they thought she should. Choice schools or the ability for people to go to a different school didn't create this problem.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 7, 2015 18:48:35 GMT -6
No, it didn't create it, but it won't solve it either. If anything it will pull down those who do want to use their given opportunities.
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Post by lions23 on Jan 7, 2015 18:55:53 GMT -6
Quite of bit of generalizing here IMO. If I were you and it sounds like we worked in similar socioeconomic situations I would look at things a little differently. My evaluator and I am privileged it seems after reading this forum has a saying that he claims that he could be fired for telling me and others. " Try and get 90 percent engagement 90 percent of the time." "There are 10 percent of our kids that are too far gone. Concentrate on the 90 percent." Poverty is a difficult thing to understand. It can be generational for some families so sometimes you and me as teachers and coaches won't see an immediate impact on our kids. Sometimes you don't see them till our students/players have their own kids. Sports especially can let kids in in the power of big picture vision,planning, and follow through. Sports can teach kids how to overcome difficult situations. For every instance of a kid writing FU on a test I could tell you about a girl who gave me a hug before Christmas. I asked what for and she said you are the first person in years that believes in us she is no angel and I don't baby the kids. I have high expectations and challenge them all the time. I could tell you about the kid I coached who saw his father beat his mother and saw him murdered on their porch. He goes on to graduate college get a pilots license and get fought over by different banks. I could tell you about the kid who everyone said would never amount to anything an was taking his whole pack of friends with him. My boss saw a great leader. He became our captain. He is the manager of a Walgreens and he is a good dad now. I could go in with anecdotal stories about amazing kids from bad schools. 90 percent of my kids from "bad" school are good kids. It's not their fault they were born under the circumstances they were born under. That's not to say poor Johnny. But you do have to have to relate with poor Johnny if you are goingtonteach him. It's not that he doesn't care. It's that he doesn't care about the things that many of us adults care about. I don't want to sound cold because I understand everything that you're saying. When I was teaching, though, one thing that this guy cared about a lot was keeping my job. If test scores are being used to evaluate me and help me to keep my job, the fact that a lot of the kids don't care about the test is a real problem for me. The complaint isn't about the kids. Most of the people who go into teaching do so with the intention of helping those kids. The complaint is about political hacks who try to score points by pushing "reforms" like eliminating tenure,instituting high stakes testing, and allowing school choice. They're the ones who are driving young teachers out of the business. I get it fantom. I don't think you are being cold. I get what motivates you is your evaluation. That makes sense and it should. The point I was making was that to be ga great motivator or leader you have to consider what motivates those you lead. That is why I disagree that kids don't care. Their cares are different than yours. If you need them to perform you need to consider their needs wants and aspirations. Same with any leadership position.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 7, 2015 19:42:59 GMT -6
Choice schools or the ability for people to go to a different school didn't create this problem. It sure didn't, but as larrymoe stated, it won't "solve" it either. Because as has been outlined, the "problem" is the people, not the process. Everyone can mention specific instances of GREAT kids, and TERRIBLE kids, but when we are talking about education as a whole and reform, then we have to analyze the big picture numbers. Those numbers are pretty clear. Low achieving schools are such because they are populated by low achievers who were descended from low achievers, not due to the educational processes, policies, or even teachers. How would school choice change that fact? Again, facemelters don't work!
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Post by CanyonCoach on Jan 7, 2015 20:00:08 GMT -6
Ruby Paine- good stuff
But....You can change a school culture but they still go home at night...that part takes time and lots and lots and lots of support from every resource.
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Post by jsk002 on Jan 7, 2015 20:00:30 GMT -6
Choice schools or the ability for people to go to a different school didn't create this problem. It sure didn't, but as larrymoe stated, it won't "solve" it either. Because as has been outlined, the "problem" is the people, not the process. Everyone can mention specific instances of GREAT kids, and TERRIBLE kids, but when we are talking about education as a whole and reform, then we have to analyze the big picture numbers. Those numbers are pretty clear. Low achieving schools are such because they are populated by low achievers who were descended from low achievers, not due to the educational processes, policies, or even teachers. How would school choice change that fact? Again, facemelters don't work! When did I ever say it solve that problem.
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Post by fantom on Jan 7, 2015 20:05:40 GMT -6
It sure didn't, but as larrymoe stated, it won't "solve" it either. Because as has been outlined, the "problem" is the people, not the process. Everyone can mention specific instances of GREAT kids, and TERRIBLE kids, but when we are talking about education as a whole and reform, then we have to analyze the big picture numbers. Those numbers are pretty clear. Low achieving schools are such because they are populated by low achievers who were descended from low achievers, not due to the educational processes, policies, or even teachers. How would school choice change that fact? Again, facemelters don't work! When did I ever say it solve that problem. Then why do it?
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Post by jsk002 on Jan 8, 2015 0:04:25 GMT -6
Because it isn't a bad thing and giving a family more choices on where they want to educate their child seems to make a lot of sense to me.
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Post by fantom on Jan 8, 2015 0:32:17 GMT -6
Because it isn't a bad thing and giving a family more choices on where they want to educate their child seems to make a lot of sense to me. How about the kids in "bad" schools who want to get out but don't have transportation to a "good" school? Does the school system provide transportation from anywhere to anywhere? How about if the "good" school is in a different school district? Which district pays for that? Is the new school going to be forced to accept any kid who wants to come? What about kids who want to get out to avoid disciplinary problems? Are the teachers at the "bad" schools going to be fired, whether they're good or not? Who will teach there? No Child Left Behind? Sounds like a lot of them will.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 6:33:06 GMT -6
Quite of bit of generalizing here IMO. If I were you and it sounds like we worked in similar socioeconomic situations I would look at things a little differently. My evaluator and I am privileged it seems after reading this forum has a saying that he claims that he could be fired for telling me and others. " Try and get 90 percent engagement 90 percent of the time." "There are 10 percent of our kids that are too far gone. Concentrate on the 90 percent." Poverty is a difficult thing to understand. It can be generational for some families so sometimes you and me as teachers and coaches won't see an immediate impact on our kids. Sometimes you don't see them till our students/players have their own kids. Sports especially can let kids in in the power of big picture vision,planning, and follow through. Sports can teach kids how to overcome difficult situations. For every instance of a kid writing FU on a test I could tell you about a girl who gave me a hug before Christmas. I asked what for and she said you are the first person in years that believes in us she is no angel and I don't baby the kids. I have high expectations and challenge them all the time. I could tell you about the kid I coached who saw his father beat his mother and saw him murdered on their porch. He goes on to graduate college get a pilots license and get fought over by different banks. I could tell you about the kid who everyone said would never amount to anything an was taking his whole pack of friends with him. My boss saw a great leader. He became our captain. He is the manager of a Walgreens and he is a good dad now. I could go in with anecdotal stories about amazing kids from bad schools. 90 percent of my kids from "bad" school are good kids. It's not their fault they were born under the circumstances they were born under. That's not to say poor Johnny. But you do have to have to relate with poor Johnny if you are goingtonteach him. It's not that he doesn't care. It's that he doesn't care about the things that many of us adults care about. I am not complaining about the kids themselves, but, as Fantom said, the reforms used to measure teacher effectiveness and control whether I get to keep my job or not. The type of success stories you point out aren't part of the equation that evaluators look at. I grew up in poverty myself. I grew up with a home life that was as bad as a lot of the kids I teach and coach. I got used to seeing society from the bottom as a kid. I can relate to them Now I've already worked at 3 different schools in my short career. All have had high rates of poverty and all the godawful things that go with them. I try very hard to relate to these kids, to be there for them, and to give them the kind of support that most don't get at home. But at the end of the day, the admin and law makers don't give a crap if those kids beat the odds to grow up into responsible adults. All they care about is test scores and arbitrary evaluation rubrics put together by academics with little or no classroom experience and usually based on shoddy or misrepresented research, like the crap Marzanno pushes. That's the problem. They can't measure what we really want so they want what we can measure. That's pushing people out of the field and subverting the real mission of education.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 6:52:07 GMT -6
Choice schools or the ability for people to go to a different school didn't create this problem. No, but it won't solve it, either. I'm saying that how the schools and teachers are measured, based on test scores, is ineffective and wrong. When teachers bust their tails and make constant sacrifices but still lose their jobs because kids like that refuse to care and drag down the kids who do, that's a problem. Those kids are out there and they have to be in school. The more you have of them, the worse your school culture is. The worse your school culture is, the lower your test scores. Unfortunately, it's not like football where you get to put your best 11 on the field to represent you. The "accountability" measures require that every single kid meet some arbitrary testing expectation. Imagine if you were judged as a coach by how well every single player, from your studs to your your 8th string freshman LT, performs in combine drills that have little to do with the actual games--your win/loss record in actual games would mean nothing, only combine testing matters. Now imagine those kids were required to be there, whether they wanted to play or not, and you couldn't cut them or even discipline them too much. Letting those kids choose which team to play on won't fix anything.
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Post by lions23 on Jan 8, 2015 10:01:40 GMT -6
@arnold
My point to show the success stories was a direct reply to someone else who used a terrible story to show how kids don't care.
My point to note that kids do care just not about what we care about was in response to a generalization that someone posted about kids not giving a crap.
I know and understand that there are issues with how and what we test but I mean to challenge people especially in education that generalize to a level that claims all kids at certain places don't give a crap.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 8, 2015 10:19:21 GMT -6
@arnold My point to show the success stories was a direct reply to someone else who used a terrible story to show how kids don't care. My point to note that kids do care just not about what we care about was in response to a generalization that someone posted about kids not giving a crap. I know and understand that there are issues with how and what we test but I mean to challenge people especially in education that generalize to a level that claims all kids at certain places don't give a crap. lions23 Yes, but in the framework of this disucssion "education/education 'reform'/school scores/etc/" that is the central concept.
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Post by blitzclip on Jan 9, 2015 8:28:47 GMT -6
I don't think that teachers leave in the first 5 years is anything new. I do think that lack of support is a minor reason, but I think that's a cop out. You should(if you have any personality) be able to get support from colleagues. Higher ups, for the most part suck in my opinion and I would prefer they stay in their office and leave me alone. I think people leave because they thought they were going into a profession where they were seen as wonderful professionals and they would be appreciated no matter what they would do, and all the kids would love them to death, and they get summers off. Then they realize they can get treated like {censored} by the kids, as well as all the people making the laws that have never been in a class before. These people have seen some new learning strategy and think it's the cure all. People leave because they take themselves too serious, and don't realize they will get to some kids but can't get to all of them, and they never felt it was a hard job at all. As far as the PD goes most of it sucks so I would prefer that they give me certain moneys so I can pick my own PD. If you leave before 5 years you weren't a teacher and good ridden's. Not really but come on man this is a great job. ps. I've coached high school for 25 years and been a teacher for 20.
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Post by rcole on Jan 9, 2015 12:27:50 GMT -6
We have had "Schools of Choice" (SOC) in our state for almost twenty years.
The result has been that city-urban districts are barely on life support. They have been eliminating positions, cutting salaries and benefits, closing schools at an alarming rate.
Isn't this the way free market competition is supposed to be? I mean as Coaches we let our kids compete and play the best. No different here. Let me preface this by saying I am a fiscal conservative, about as much as one can be. As a result I have thought this whole business analogy through many times. It just isn't an apples to apples comparison. 1) Businesses choose their suppliers. If a supplier is sending you crap, you will make crap. So you get another supplier. We have to take what comes in the door and make do. 2) A business does have some control over who its customers will be. Some. For example: If I go into a business and show my tail, disturb all of the other customers and prevent them from getting what they are seeking from the business, then the business would call the police and ban me from ever coming back. Schools can't do that most of the time. We just have to live with students that don't want to be there ruining the experience for the others. I am inclined to agree with the overall idea that woodall is pushing. The overhaul needed is extreme, a total break with what we have been doing. Heck, I think we create a lot of our discipline problems by trying to force kids into a system that doesn't work for them. The calendar may be based on agriculture, but the way we educate was designed to produce legions of industrial factory workers. We are still basically educating that way. Obviously this is silly. The "schooling" model with us locked in cubes moving from place to place on the bell is not in line with how people learn. It is also not in line with human nature. Unnatural and irrelevant education leads to a lot of behavior problems. Watch these video: RSA Animates-Changing Education Paradigms (sorry, buttons don't work with the school's filters) and RSA Animates-Drive, the Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us
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Post by rcole on Jan 9, 2015 12:46:26 GMT -6
This is the single best analysis of our educational system I have ever read. I read it many years ago and it hits all of the nails on the head. More than worth your time. 17 Reasons Why Football Is Better Than School: www.northcoastjournal.com/092498/cover0924.html
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Post by coachphillip on Jan 9, 2015 12:54:13 GMT -6
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Post by coachwoodall on Jan 9, 2015 20:53:20 GMT -6
What's up Coach Cole, hope all is well with you and yours. I've seen that first video and that really jives with what I feel about education. I read the posted article before and and there are several things that agree with and several that I'm more 'meh' with. Again all and all the gist of what you posted is greatly in line with what my vision of education should be more like. And it has nothing to do with administrative observations and test scores.
Really it all comes back to why we all become coaches; we are passionate about the game of football. To be honest, those in the classroom became teachers for the same reason; we are passionate about learning. I bet that every single teacher/coach loves his subject area, but they also love learning about many other subjects/interests that don't come close to their 'highly qualified' certification.
I guess I'm pragmatic enough to realize that the powers that be aren't going to relinquish their hold of the system and realize that the ship's course of high stakes testing and what not aren't going away. I don't really have a problem with that, because that is the yard stick so that is what I work against and I'm going to try and beat it. My beef is that beotching about isn't going to move the bar and if that's the 'conference opponent' that I have to beat, the I'm going to make dame sure I do my best to win. However, it isn't going to change the fact that China has more honors graduate kids coming out of high school every than we have kids coming out of high school every year.
Again our model of education is what is broken. If you could put the top minds of industry, innovation, and technology together and come up with what education COULD look like versus the top minds of politics; I would beat a dollar to a doughnut that the 2 models wouldn't even come close to resembling each other.
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Post by tmccullo on Jan 11, 2015 14:42:15 GMT -6
I have worked in inner city economically disadvantaged schools most all of my career. Here is the problem i see. Kids graduate high school and can't afford college. A high school degree gets them minimum wage jobs. So how do you justify an education to kids like this when they can join gangs and sell dope and make lots of money. For years now we have told kids that they have to be college ready knowing full well none of the kids where I work can afford this dream. Because money is so tight at home, they often times have to miss school or drop out just to help keep food on the table. We had a D-1 prospect quit his senior year because he had to get job as his family didn't have food. Nothing we could do as coaches to prevent this.
Why are we not doing a better job of teaching these kids a skill that they can get a good paying job with? There are advertisements all the time here in Houston about high paying industrial jobs that require a HS diploma. Yet they go unfilled? Why are our schools not partner-shipped with these companies and offering training and certification for kids so they can have a job opportunity after graduating high school?
College is great, but as the costs of a college education keeps rising, many kids can just not afford it. So at the 9th grade we take a page out of what many other countries do and offer two pathways to incoming 9th graders; 1) trade school and 2) college. These pathways can be switched anytime. In the trade pathway, kids are taught a trade and get certified in that area and after graduating, are helped through business partnerships to find work. The college pathway is more traditional preparing kids to enter college. Everyone deserves an opportunity for college but the reality is only a few can afford it.
In the past few years many school districts have cut trades out of school in favor of more classrooms so they con concentrate on teaching to standardized testing. The same thing they want to do with PE and athletics. Our school district on the other hand has added technology. We actually just completed a very large technology campus. The sooner we get off this standardized test thing and get back to truly caring about what happens to these kids after they leave high school the better off we will all be. Seems as of the last 10 years, coaches are the ONLY ones in education that still care about kids.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 11, 2015 15:09:02 GMT -6
I have worked in inner city economically disadvantaged schools most all of my career. Here is the problem i see. Kids graduate high school and can't afford college. A high school degree gets them minimum wage jobs. So how do you justify an education to kids like this when they can join gangs and sell dope and make lots of money. For years now we have told kids that they have to be college ready knowing full well none of the kids where I work can afford this dream. Because money is so tight at home, they often times have to miss school or drop out just to help keep food on the table. We had a D-1 prospect quit his senior year because he had to get job as his family didn't have food. Nothing we could do as coaches to prevent this. Why are we not doing a better job of teaching these kids a skill that they can get a good paying job with? There are advertisements all the time here in Houston about high paying industrial jobs that require a HS diploma. Yet they go unfilled? Why are our schools not partner-shipped with these companies and offering training and certification for kids so they can have a job opportunity after graduating high school? College is great, but as the costs of a college education keeps rising, many kids can just not afford it. So at the 9th grade we take a page out of what many other countries do and offer two pathways to incoming 9th graders; 1) trade school and 2) college. These pathways can be switched anytime. In the trade pathway, kids are taught a trade and get certified in that area and after graduating, are helped through business partnerships to find work. The college pathway is more traditional preparing kids to enter college. Everyone deserves an opportunity for college but the reality is only a few can afford it. In the past few years many school districts have cut trades out of school in favor of more classrooms so they con concentrate on teaching to standardized testing. The same thing they want to do with PE and athletics. Our school district on the other hand has added technology. We actually just completed a very large technology campus. The sooner we get off this standardized test thing and get back to truly caring about what happens to these kids after they leave high school the better off we will all be. Seems as of the last 10 years, coaches are the ONLY ones in education that still care about kids. To answer why those jobs go unfilled- It's a lot easier to be a drug dealer than it is to work 40 hours a week. Especially if it's a physical job.
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Post by fballcoachg on Jan 12, 2015 8:51:56 GMT -6
I have worked in inner city economically disadvantaged schools most all of my career. Here is the problem i see. Kids graduate high school and can't afford college. A high school degree gets them minimum wage jobs. So how do you justify an education to kids like this when they can join gangs and sell dope and make lots of money. For years now we have told kids that they have to be college ready knowing full well none of the kids where I work can afford this dream. Because money is so tight at home, they often times have to miss school or drop out just to help keep food on the table. We had a D-1 prospect quit his senior year because he had to get job as his family didn't have food. Nothing we could do as coaches to prevent this. Why are we not doing a better job of teaching these kids a skill that they can get a good paying job with? There are advertisements all the time here in Houston about high paying industrial jobs that require a HS diploma. Yet they go unfilled? Why are our schools not partner-shipped with these companies and offering training and certification for kids so they can have a job opportunity after graduating high school? College is great, but as the costs of a college education keeps rising, many kids can just not afford it. So at the 9th grade we take a page out of what many other countries do and offer two pathways to incoming 9th graders; 1) trade school and 2) college. These pathways can be switched anytime. In the trade pathway, kids are taught a trade and get certified in that area and after graduating, are helped through business partnerships to find work. The college pathway is more traditional preparing kids to enter college. Everyone deserves an opportunity for college but the reality is only a few can afford it. In the past few years many school districts have cut trades out of school in favor of more classrooms so they con concentrate on teaching to standardized testing. The same thing they want to do with PE and athletics. Our school district on the other hand has added technology. We actually just completed a very large technology campus. The sooner we get off this standardized test thing and get back to truly caring about what happens to these kids after they leave high school the better off we will all be. Seems as of the last 10 years, coaches are the ONLY ones in education that still care about kids. To answer why those jobs go unfilled- It's a lot easier to be a drug dealer than it is to work 40 hours a week. Especially if it's a physical job. The hard work concept, I would agree with...I have seen many students and adults scoff at good jobs because you have to start off on second/third shift or working Thursday through Sunday. There is a disconnect between paying your dues to get the desired job setup versus this mindset that you should just be given all of your demands immediately...it seems to be a pervasive attitude across generations and most socioeconomic groups anymore. I have been fortunate to teach in very different areas, including inner city and a very stable blue collar area. The blue collar area seemed to push the trade school as a much more viable option for kids that weren't geared for college and there are kids that are stepping in to very nice careers right out of high school. It seemed that the inner city school was so tied up in having a reputation for producing "college ready" students and providing "cool and fun" classes that aren't practical for real world jobs (like tv production and video game creation courses...statistically speaking it would be like having a basketball class because some kids want to play in the NBA) that they made the conscience decision to distance themselves from the trade school. It was like saying trades aren't good enough or "we aren't pigeon holing our kids into a factory job." It was all for show and to the detriment to the kids. The perception schools want to put out there is what holds them back because if they had larger trade schools/vocational programs what you would be hearing is "you don't think these kids are good enough for college?". It is a double edged sword. That being said, I have never seen more outside resources readily available to kids than those in the large inner city school. Between free ACT prep, free tests, free tutoring, copious amounts of scholarships and partnerships with area universities, etc the opportunities are there. I went to an inner city school and remember growing up and hearing every day about this scholarship or that scholarship for underserved students, there are opportunities but like anything else they have to be taken advantage of. Realistically, it is the kids from families that are just getting by that are at a huge disadvantage...living check to check they make too much to qualify for any aid and far too little to afford college. These are the ones that in my experience go without far more than the students whose families qualify for all types of aid and tend to be more generationally impoverished. That's the group without outside resources, that tends to get neglected and if they do try and go to college, wind up being crippled by the debt they accrue. I think far too many times we generalize the exception...the kid that needs to work to put food on the table...with the reality, the families that are impoverished but have their needs taken care of (during the school year the students are provided free breakfast and lunch and many of those students are still buying food from the vending machines). But yes, schools should provide both college prep and TRUE career prep, not some musical engineering class because it's cool and I can cut a demo at school but a CAD or CNC course so that I can link up with this corporation and get a good job after school. The problem is convincing the politically charged and PR driven education system that practical and fun aren't necessarily the same thing.
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