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Post by carookie on Nov 20, 2014 17:10:08 GMT -6
I've put a lot of thought into how to exactly phrase this, but Im looking for some help/advice. I currently coach for a HC with whom I disagree with about a lot of things we do in the program. Moreover, this coach doesn't listen to me when I say things I disagree with; I'm usually met with a "stay in your lane" or "trust the process". To be completely honest I've pretty much given up trying to give any advice contrary to what I know he wants to hear.
I love coaching, but Im pretty much fed up coaching for him (weird thing is he's not a bad guy, I just don't disagree with a lot of things and Im not really listened to). Here's the issue; I've heard from a number of players that they only play because I coach, or that Im the only coach that really cares about them as people, or that I'm the only good role model out here. I don't ever solicit these comments, or encourage them; nor do I ever question the coach in front of the team. But from what I see if I didnt coach a lot of kids who could get good things out of football would not.
We have a good record this year, mostly despite our coaching; because we have an insanely talented Jr. class (several Jrs. already have D1A offers despite our school having less than 200 students). So I doubt there will be a change made.
My question is how have ya'll handled coaching in a situation where you don't really agree with how things are being coached, just leave? Give your cache to the program even when you don't agree with it?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 17:31:52 GMT -6
For me, I have to feel respected, feel valued, and have some influence on the situation in order to be happy. If I'm not getting those things, all the winning in the world won't make me happy. Maybe I'm just selfish, but I believe just about everyone is like that. If I'm not happy and don't see very good odds of ever being happy in a position, I look to fix that by looking for a place more in line with what I value.
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Post by olcoach53 on Nov 20, 2014 17:58:17 GMT -6
For me, I have to feel respected, feel valued, and have some influence on the situation in order to be happy. If I'm not getting those things, all the winning in the world won't make me happy. Maybe I'm just selfish, but I believe just about everyone is like that. If I'm not happy and don't see very good odds of ever being happy in a position, I look to fix that by looking for a place more in line with what I value. I agree with this 100%. There has to be some sort of mutual respect. Now I am not saying you have to bend over backwards for it and vice versa, coaching is a very give and take type of relationship as you all know, but you do deserve some respect from your bosses. |
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Post by fantom on Nov 20, 2014 18:11:51 GMT -6
I've put a lot of thought into how to exactly phrase this, but Im looking for some help/advice. I currently coach for a HC with whom I disagree with about a lot of things we do in the program. Moreover, this coach doesn't listen to me when I say things I disagree with; I'm usually met with a "stay in your lane" or "trust the process". To be completely honest I've pretty much given up trying to give any advice contrary to what I know he wants to hear. I love coaching, but Im pretty much fed up coaching for him (weird thing is he's not a bad guy, I just don't disagree with a lot of things and Im not really listened to). Here's the issue; I've heard from a number of players that they only play because I coach, or that Im the only coach that really cares about them as people, or that I'm the only good role model out here. I don't ever solicit these comments, or encourage them; nor do I ever question the coach in front of the team. But from what I see if I didnt coach a lot of kids who could get good things out of football would not. We have a good record this year, mostly despite our coaching; because we have an insanely talented Jr. class (several Jrs. already have D1A offers despite our school having less than 200 students). So I doubt there will be a change made. My question is how have ya'll handled coaching in a situation where you don't really agree with how things are being coached, just leave? Give your cache to the program even when you don't agree with it? Coaching is hard work and doesn't pay much. I wouldn't stay anywhere if I didn't like working there. |
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Post by coachklee on Nov 20, 2014 20:02:25 GMT -6
Find a new coaching position if possible.
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Post by newhope on Nov 20, 2014 20:07:18 GMT -6
Time to move on
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Post by realdawg on Nov 20, 2014 20:29:19 GMT -6
Time to go
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Post by carookie on Nov 20, 2014 22:30:22 GMT -6
Seems like everyone is writing to cut ties, but let me add this. I am dept. chair, and not leaving this school; so if I don't coach here I probably wont be coaching. Would it change anyone's thoughts if not coaching here meant not coaching at all?
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Post by fantom on Nov 20, 2014 22:38:07 GMT -6
Seems like everyone is writing to cut ties, but let me add this. I am dept. chair, and not leaving this school; so if I don't coach here I probably wont be coaching. Would it change anyone's thoughts if not coaching here meant not coaching at all? I coached at a different school from the one where I taught for 20 years. |
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Post by tothehouse on Nov 20, 2014 22:47:03 GMT -6
carookie - time to not coach. I did this. And here is the thing...not coaching wasn't bad. I became a way better teacher, husband, father, etc.
I would do the same thing again. My situation almost nailed your situation exactly...except our place has more students.
The decision seems hard right now...but after it's made you'll wonder why it took so long. #trustme
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Post by realdawg on Nov 21, 2014 4:21:09 GMT -6
I wouldnt not coach-I would leave and move to another school. I am gonna be honest, I probably wouldnt be in education if it wasnt for coaching ball. Now, before people rain fire down on me, I like teaching, I am a good teacher according to my evals and test scores....... but I LOVE coaching. Coaching was the reason I decided to be a teacher if that makes sense. So if it were me personally, I would leave that school and move on to another. Again, thats just me.....
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 21, 2014 5:56:37 GMT -6
I wouldnt not coach-I would leave and move to another school. I am gonna be honest, I probably wouldnt be in education if it wasnt for coaching ball. Now, before people rain fire down on me, I like teaching, I am a good teacher according to my evals and test scores....... but I LOVE coaching. Coaching was the reason I decided to be a teacher if that makes sense. So if it were me personally, I would leave that school and move on to another. Again, thats just me..... Have you ever been in a lousy teaching situation though? That is the tricky part, ensuring that your mortgage paying job is enjoyable so you can support your beer-money job. |
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Post by coach2013 on Nov 21, 2014 6:04:07 GMT -6
I've put a lot of thought into how to exactly phrase this, but Im looking for some help/advice. I currently coach for a HC with whom I disagree with about a lot of things we do in the program. Moreover, this coach doesn't listen to me when I say things I disagree with; I'm usually met with a "stay in your lane" or "trust the process". To be completely honest I've pretty much given up trying to give any advice contrary to what I know he wants to hear. I love coaching, but Im pretty much fed up coaching for him (weird thing is he's not a bad guy, I just don't disagree with a lot of things and Im not really listened to). Here's the issue; I've heard from a number of players that they only play because I coach, or that Im the only coach that really cares about them as people, or that I'm the only good role model out here. I don't ever solicit these comments, or encourage them; nor do I ever question the coach in front of the team. But from what I see if I didnt coach a lot of kids who could get good things out of football would not. We have a good record this year, mostly despite our coaching; because we have an insanely talented Jr. class (several Jrs. already have D1A offers despite our school having less than 200 students). So I doubt there will be a change made. My question is how have ya'll handled coaching in a situation where you don't really agree with how things are being coached, just leave? Give your cache to the program even when you don't agree with it?
1) I think all coaches have to understand ITS NOT ABOUT YOU- so you being appreciated, respected, listened to and so on really isn't what its all about. Make your mark, help the kids grow as student athletes and citizens and coach up your position and worry only about the things that you specifically have been trusted to do.
2) when a HC says "trust the process" hes being very clear, hes the captain of the ship. You are either rowing the boat or drilling holes in it. when you latch onto the comments made by immature teenagers and use them justify your own lack of buy in, you are being a cancer to the staff. You might not agree with that...but lets face it, the assistant coaches are almost always more "buddy buddy" with players than any HC can afford to be.
3) if you do not trust the HC or like his program, or agree with it enough to give it your best effort every day, then out of respect for all -its best that you move on.
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Post by smfreeman on Nov 21, 2014 6:48:37 GMT -6
Life is too short! If you aren't happy doing something then don't! I would have never said that before but I have had some bad situations the last two years and I find myself in a similar boat. The Football Coaching Podcast had a good show on is it time to move on. I would listen to that and sit down and make a list.
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Post by amakelky on Nov 21, 2014 7:01:18 GMT -6
Hard to argue with giving up the coaching, but a lot of us just can't fathom not coaching, especially in a place where you are needed. Two things to remember if you stay on board:
1. You do it for the kids and not the HC
2. You can learn just as much, if not more, from a HC you disagree with than one you think is great. This is especially true if you aspire to be the head dick someday.
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agame
Junior Member
Posts: 378
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Post by agame on Nov 21, 2014 8:22:29 GMT -6
This currently feels like my situation...
I enjoy the coachin.. I don't enjoy the {censored} surrounding the whole programme.
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Post by sweep26 on Nov 21, 2014 10:17:17 GMT -6
Coaching in a program that you do not believe in is not fair to anyone.
I agree with those that say, "respectfully step aside and move on."
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Post by realdawg on Nov 21, 2014 11:15:26 GMT -6
Nope. Never taught in a bad situation. But same thing. If I wasn't happy with the teaching situation I'd move on and try to find myself a better opportunity.
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Post by coach2013 on Nov 21, 2014 11:16:53 GMT -6
Make the big time where you are.
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Post by WTR on Nov 21, 2014 11:35:02 GMT -6
I'd move on.
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Post by olinedude on Nov 21, 2014 11:40:56 GMT -6
If you can't be loyal and bought in you need to leave. If you stay and still have a ton of disagreements it will ultimately hurt the kids. If you are not bought in to a way of doing things, the kids will see right through you and they will not be all the way bought in to the things you can't buy into. If you want to stay to impact the kids, either just teach or coach something else, but staying and not being all the way bought in will hurt the entire program.
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Post by coachdubyah on Nov 21, 2014 12:07:29 GMT -6
I think you're kind of looking at it wrong. You say you don't "agree" with the program, but all staffs have a little of this. Look at it as a learning experience. I am currently in a similar situation, almost exactly as you described. I'm assuming you want to be a HC one day. The best piece of advice I have ever been given on this is to "be the Assistant Coach you would want to have". That has always stuck with me. You can disagree with him in the office all you want. Vent your frustrations and thoughts to him and move on. When you are on the field (practice or game) you coach. Don't let your emotions/opinions dictate your energy and coaching. If it is then you need to find another job.
One way you could use this situation to help you:
I keep a notebook filled with stuff/situations that come up that a HC has to deal with and I write down how I would handle it. (Coaching Journal so to speak) There a lot tidbits from this site in there as well. Every thing my boss does I write down how he handled it and whether or not I like/dislike it. (I'm weird. Just how my brain works. Sounds strange I know. I don't have any other hobbies.)
Just be careful not to question the HC on every little decision he makes. Everybody wants to be HC until it's time to be a HC. That will make the situation toxic. My boss and I have a good relationship, and I generally only tell him what I think WHEN HE ASKS. If you feel you need to say something. Go home sleep on it and if it still bothers you, then maybe you bring it up. You will know when the time is right. Just don't talk to him when/if you are p!ssed.
However if you can't get fired up to work with your kids everyday and coach the greatest game known to man, then it's time to move on.
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Post by coachklee on Nov 21, 2014 14:45:40 GMT -6
I think you're kind of looking at it wrong. You say you don't "agree" with the program, but all staffs have a little of this. Look at it as a learning experience. I am currently in a similar situation, almost exactly as you described. I'm assuming you want to be a HC one day. The best piece of advice I have ever been given on this is to "be the Assistant Coach you would want to have". That has always stuck with me. You can disagree with him in the office all you want. Vent your frustrations and thoughts to him and move on. When you are on the field (practice or game) you coach. Don't let your emotions/opinions dictate your energy and coaching. If it is then you need to find another job. One way you could use this situation to help you: I keep a notebook filled with stuff/situations that come up that a HC has to deal with and I write down how I would handle it. (Coaching Journal so to speak) There a lot tidbits from this site in there as well. Every thing my boss does I write down how he handled it and whether or not I like/dislike it. (I'm weird. Just how my brain works. Sounds strange I know. I don't have any other hobbies.) Just be careful not to question the HC on every little decision he makes. Everybody wants to be HC until it's time to be a HC. That will make the situation toxic. My boss and I have a good relationship, and I generally only tell him what I think WHEN HE ASKS. If you feel you need to say something. Go home sleep on it and if it still bothers you, then maybe you bring it up. You will know when the time is right. Just don't talk to him when/if you are p!ssed. However if you can't get fired up to work with your kids everyday and coach the greatest game known to man, then it's time to move on. From my 12 years as an assistant, I do think I've learned to ask questions to help "assist" the HC in considering other possibilities or to help them re-affirm his rationale. If it is an Xs and Os selection of scheme thing you disagree with, question behind closed doors, but at some point deal with it, grow-up and "trust the process"...especially in front of the players. If it is an incomplete scheme then you might have a legitimate disagreement, but come back to the HC with suggestions or questions that expose the incompleteness of the scheme. If it is unsound teaching of position specific techniques, keys, etc. do the same thing as the incomplete scheme and give the HC suggestions or questions to help improve your teaching of it. If you just philosophically don't believe the HC is there for the right reasons...then quit ASAP. Maybe we'll give better advice if you don't mind sharing some of "disagreements" you have with the HC. I guess my last bit of advice is a believe I have about any type of job, "If I don't like my current job and I want a better job I should start looking for that better job. When I'm actually qualified for a better job, I'll get a better job. Until that time, I have an obligation to do my best so I continue to provide for my family and show my employer that I am trying to provide them the best work I can provide them." To me, way too many people complain about their job being too hard or not paying enough. That is a losers mentality. A winner would instead constantly seek to improve themselves, always be on the look out for better opportunities and put their best effort forward to seize those opportunities when they do come along. |
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Post by rsmith627 on Nov 21, 2014 14:54:44 GMT -6
I was in this situation last year. After two years in the program I was in I just couldn't buy in to what we are doing, and didn't believe in the HC's vision. I owed it to that coach and the players to take my bad attitude and move on. The program that I left went on to have their first winning season in over a decade, but I still don't believe that they will sustain that record under current leadership. The new program I joined has a staff that was brand new, and is a total rebuild job. We went 1-8, but I was way happier than I would have been losing in the first round of the playoffs at my old school, because the HC is a dynamic guy with a ton of vision, and an excellent guy to work under and learn from. My last HC wasn't a bad guy, or even a bad coach. I just couldn't get on board with his vision.
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Post by coach2013 on Nov 21, 2014 15:09:59 GMT -6
sometimes a program just isn't a good fit for a personality or vice versa.
I can not work as an assistant for a person I do not respect. ITs not a football thing, its a people thing. If the guy is not a class act, I cant respect him and that's on me to just accept that and move on.
Sometimes, while all football is good, all schemes and xs and os are not sound. All systems are not logical and well thought out. I cant stand a lack of sensible terminology. I hate when the same plays are called different things from year to year or formation to formation.
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filmjunkie
Sophomore Member
[F4:@AlexJKirby]
Posts: 160
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Post by filmjunkie on Nov 21, 2014 16:27:34 GMT -6
This job is too difficult and doesn't pay enough on its own to justify you staying somewhere you don't want to be. I'm not in your shoes, so I can't tell you exactly the right thing to do, but assuming you've really sat down and thought about this for a while, and don't see any way it could work, then you're better off leaving.
I know lots of guys who coach at different schools than they teach at. Then again I live in Indianapolis, and we have dozens of high school programs to choose from within an hour from here, so it may be easier than if you live in a more rural area.
The bottom line is this: Are you happy? If not, and you can do something to change that, why wouldn't you?
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 21, 2014 18:51:42 GMT -6
Nope. Never taught in a bad situation. But same thing. If I wasn't happy with the teaching situation I'd move on and try to find myself a better opportunity. Oh- I absolutely agree with that. My point was just that some don't have ease of mobility that others have. It could be risky leaving a teaching position that you enjoy to go find a coaching position. "Good" teaching positions are becoming somewhat rare--and harder to get with each passing year. Crappy teaching jobs are plentiful. |
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Post by wolverine55 on Nov 21, 2014 19:40:17 GMT -6
I agree with that sentiment. I absolutely LOVE coaching...but at the same time, I'm keeping my teaching job for as long as they will have me. After years of sub teaching and part-time teaching jobs, I've landed in a great spot. If there ever comes a time where I'm not wanted/needed to coach at my current school, but my teaching job is set, I'm staying put!
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Post by wingtol on Nov 21, 2014 20:38:51 GMT -6
Time to go.
On another note not to sound like a d**k but don't try and talk yourself in to staying because kids say you are the only reason they are playing, or you are the only one who knows whats going on, blahh blahh blahh. They are teenagers trust me they move on quick. We went to a new school this year and after we got hired I went on to the booster facebook page and was going back reading posts from when the previous coach was let go. All kinds of kids saying they won't play unless so and so was a coach and this guy should get this job on and on and on. We are not playing if... You would have though by reading those posts we would have 15 kids on the roster this year. Well we had one of the bigger teams in awhile for the program. I would be very careful if you are unhappy about staying just because of what the kids are saying. You can still be a positive influence in the school as a teacher.
Sounds like you are unhappy so go. Gotta look out for #1.
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Post by carookie on Nov 22, 2014 3:43:16 GMT -6
Thanks for all the advice, I've really looked over and thought about all the posts so far. Just got some thinking to do.
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