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Post by nltdiego on Nov 8, 2014 19:05:53 GMT -6
Coaches,
Have you ever had kids complete an evaluation sheet of the coaching staff? Would like to know the pros and cons of this idea? I envision they would complete an evaluation sheet and not put their names on it.
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Post by coach2013 on Nov 8, 2014 19:59:42 GMT -6
Are you #$%^&& kidding me? How are kids qualified to evaluate a coach?
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Post by s73 on Nov 8, 2014 20:11:23 GMT -6
Uh....no.
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Post by Coach Huey on Nov 8, 2014 20:28:40 GMT -6
evaluate, no. have them take a survey? perhaps. the survey questions would be more about the experience rather than "does coach A know football?" type stuff.
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Post by airraider on Nov 8, 2014 21:06:19 GMT -6
Survey I agree with... What ways could this season have been a more positive experience? Stuff like that... spin it positively with leading questions.
The feedback could prove to be valuable.
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Post by coachdubyah on Nov 8, 2014 22:05:29 GMT -6
I give my players one. But it's more along the lines of "what do you like/dislike" type things. I think if you give them leading questions it can be something to help you as a coach.
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Post by jlenwood on Nov 9, 2014 8:20:05 GMT -6
Are you #$%^&& kidding me? How are kids qualified to evaluate a coach? The same way anything is evaluated. How many of us know anything about the logistics of mass retailing, but I bet some of us have filled out an online survey from sort of retailer, or a restaurant and on and on. I have not had players fill out a survey, but I have done a very informal sort of exit interview with some of my players in the past. What I have done is pick a few of my position players that I trust, and who trust me to listen and not correct everything they say. I frame it in the way it is intended, your feedback will help me be a better coach, which in turn helps the program. It really is a self-evaluation tool for me. Some of the things I have asked: -What did we do everyday that you thought was a waste of time? -What did we do every day that you think helped YOU as a player improve? -Did the drills we do every day translate to game situations, and were you able to realize that when we were doing the drills? -When I explained or taught something, were you able to understand what I was getting at? -Was I open to the players feedback during practice and games? Come up with your own list, but in my opinion feedback like this is extremely valuable. |
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Post by natenator on Nov 9, 2014 8:36:14 GMT -6
Survey I agree with... What ways could this season have been a more positive experience? Stuff like that... spin it positively with leading questions. The feedback could prove to be valuable. You don't really care about valuable feedback if your intent is to use leading questions. |
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Post by natenator on Nov 9, 2014 8:40:17 GMT -6
Are you #$%^&& kidding me? How are kids qualified to evaluate a coach? The same way anything is evaluated. How many of us know anything about the logistics of mass retailing, but I bet some of us have filled out an online survey from sort of retailer, or a restaurant and on and on. I have not had players fill out a survey, but I have done a very informal sort of exit interview with some of my players in the past. What I have done is pick a few of my position players that I trust, and who trust me to listen and not correct everything they say. I frame it in the way it is intended, your feedback will help me be a better coach, which in turn helps the program. It really is a self-evaluation tool for me. Some of the things I have asked: -What did we do everyday that you thought was a waste of time? -What did we do every day that you think helped YOU as a player improve? -Did the drills we do every day translate to game situations, and were you able to realize that when we were doing the drills? -When I explained or taught something, were you able to understand what I was getting at? -Was I open to the players feedback during practice and games? Come up with your own list, but in my opinion feedback like this is extremely valuable. You're not getting reliable feedback if your hand picking players, especially when you're using a subjectively biased selection criteria. Garbage in. Garbage out. |
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Post by natenator on Nov 9, 2014 8:42:36 GMT -6
The same way anything is evaluated. How many of us know anything about the logistics of mass retailing, but I bet some of us have filled out an online survey from sort of retailer, or a restaurant and on and on. I have not had players fill out a survey, but I have done a very informal sort of exit interview with some of my players in the past. What I have done is pick a few of my position players that I trust, and who trust me to listen and not correct everything they say. I frame it in the way it is intended, your feedback will help me be a better coach, which in turn helps the program. It really is a self-evaluation tool for me. Some of the things I have asked: -What did we do everyday that you thought was a waste of time? -What did we do every day that you think helped YOU as a player improve? -Did the drills we do every day translate to game situations, and were you able to realize that when we were doing the drills? -When I explained or taught something, were you able to understand what I was getting at? -Was I open to the players feedback during practice and games? Come up with your own list, but in my opinion feedback like this is extremely valuable. You're not getting reliable feedback if your hand picking players, especially when you're using a subjectively biased selection criteria. Garbage in. Garbage out. Not to mention that the responses you're getting are inherently biased (positively or negatively) if you're personally surveying them. |
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Post by s73 on Nov 9, 2014 9:08:10 GMT -6
Survey I agree with... What ways could this season have been a more positive experience? Stuff like that... spin it positively with leading questions. The feedback could prove to be valuable. You don't really care about valuable feedback if your intent is to use leading questions. Natenator, Maybe b/c the feedback from 16 year olds isn't all that valuable? I worked in a school district earlier in my career that had every student write a written evaluation about every teacher in the building and they were submitted to the admin. and of course all of them are anonymous. I had a student in class who was being a complete jackass about a week before the review and I called him out. Next words out of his mouth "when's your review coming up" and he finished the sentence by calling me by my first name. You pick kids you can trust feedback from. The rest are ill-equipped. You were really ready to assess a FB program when you were 15 Natenator? Cut the Devil's advocate BS. |
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Post by jg78 on Nov 9, 2014 9:36:56 GMT -6
Boy, I would blow up over that. What did you do?
In my opinion, I think a coach who has been around the block a few times should be able to see what is and isn't effective without formal input from players. I like exit interviews but more from the perspective of where each player stands and what he needs to focus on improving in the offseason.
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Post by Coach.A on Nov 9, 2014 10:00:52 GMT -6
I'm against evaluations from players (e.g. On a scale of 1 to 10 how would you rate my play-calling).
But I'm in favor of getting feedback & constructive criticism from players (e.g. What did you think of our practice format this season? What areas need improvement? What is our programs greatest need or area that requires the most improvement for next season?, etc...)
The ability to accept criticism and use it to reflect and improve is a key component of a growth mindset.
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Post by coach2013 on Nov 9, 2014 10:18:37 GMT -6
The only coaching job I ever lost was at a school where they interviewed the biggest cancers on the team, seniors who never lifted, kids who were late for detentions or missed practices due to suspensions, awol absences and things of that nature. The AD was a granola bleeding heart who didn't think anyone should discipline kids who "had it tough" because "youd be one more adult that's screwed them over in life" - this was his real life approach to being an Ad, no discipline, no expectations, no nothing. Just ask the kids what they think. They are horrible now of course.
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Post by coach2013 on Nov 9, 2014 10:26:08 GMT -6
Id never ask a kid if we did something that was a waste of time.
Instead we are sure to make sure the kids know that everything we do has a valuable purpose. If you need to ask the kid if its a waste of time, then it probably is.
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Post by s73 on Nov 9, 2014 13:28:33 GMT -6
I'm against evaluations from players (e.g. On a scale of 1 to 10 how would you rate my play-calling).
But I'm in favor of getting feedback & constructive criticism from players (e.g. What did you think of our practice format this season? What areas need improvement? What is our programs greatest need or area that requires the most improvement for next season?, etc...)
The ability to accept criticism and use it to reflect and improve is a key component of a growth mindset. Agreed..........from those who are competent to do so. Teenagers? Nope. |
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Post by Coach.A on Nov 9, 2014 13:40:40 GMT -6
I'm against evaluations from players (e.g. On a scale of 1 to 10 how would you rate my play-calling).
But I'm in favor of getting feedback & constructive criticism from players (e.g. What did you think of our practice format this season? What areas need improvement? What is our programs greatest need or area that requires the most improvement for next season?, etc...)
The ability to accept criticism and use it to reflect and improve is a key component of a growth mindset. Agreed..........from those who are competent to do so. Teenagers? Nope. Maybe we're lucky, but I think our varsity players are competent enough to answer some of those questions honestly. It doesn't mean I'm going to revamp the entire program based on their answers, but I think there is value in hearing what your players are thinking. Are you telling me that you wouldn't even trust the opinions of your senior captains? |
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Post by jlenwood on Nov 9, 2014 13:56:43 GMT -6
The same way anything is evaluated. How many of us know anything about the logistics of mass retailing, but I bet some of us have filled out an online survey from sort of retailer, or a restaurant and on and on. I have not had players fill out a survey, but I have done a very informal sort of exit interview with some of my players in the past. What I have done is pick a few of my position players that I trust, and who trust me to listen and not correct everything they say. I frame it in the way it is intended, your feedback will help me be a better coach, which in turn helps the program. It really is a self-evaluation tool for me. Some of the things I have asked: -What did we do everyday that you thought was a waste of time? -What did we do every day that you think helped YOU as a player improve? -Did the drills we do every day translate to game situations, and were you able to realize that when we were doing the drills? -When I explained or taught something, were you able to understand what I was getting at? -Was I open to the players feedback during practice and games? Come up with your own list, but in my opinion feedback like this is extremely valuable. You're not getting reliable feedback if your hand picking players, especially when you're using a subjectively biased selection criteria. Garbage in. Garbage out. I am hand picking players because I don't want to waste my time with a kid who was lazy, never lifted, showed no effort etc., in other words the players who don't give a chit about the program. If I have a 3 year starter that I have developed a close working relationship with, guess what, I trust his feedback. As far as not asking someone if something was a waste of time, to me this is another way I can see if I have failed to convey the importance of what I am teaching. I am not going to have a kid tell me that conditioning or something along those lines is a waste of time and put any credence into that, but since I am picking TRUSTED players I don't worry about hearing stuff like that. I am also a little confused on your "garbage in - garbage out" reference. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 9, 2014 14:00:47 GMT -6
I absolutely think that some type of Likert scale questionnaire (ex, 1-5 ratings) would probably we worthless and a waste of time. More open ended questions might give useful info, might not. I don't know if it would hurt to read them and see what the players are saying. Doesn't mean you need to change anything, nor do you need to really give any weight to what they say.
I mean heck, there have been some threads here where I wouldn't pay any attention or give any respect to the input that other COACHES have made.... so just assuming that all players aren't competent to give a good idea or two doesn't make much sense.
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Post by s73 on Nov 9, 2014 14:20:31 GMT -6
Agreed..........from those who are competent to do so. Teenagers? Nope. Maybe we're lucky, but I think our varsity players are competent enough to answer some of those questions honestly. It doesn't mean I'm going to revamp the entire program based on their answers, but I think there is value in hearing what your players are thinking. Are you telling me that you wouldn't even trust the opinions of your senior captains? No. Not telling you that. I speak w/ my senior captains regularly and I have meetings with them and ask them questions about how things are going within the team dynamic, how they are handling week's gameplan, etc. I also feel I have an excellent rapport with them as well as many other players. But.....that's not what the OP asked. I think casual conversation as well as meetings in which we are working and assessing things TOGETHER as staff and captains is much different from what the OP asked as well as what some of the responses were IMO. Absolutely trust the opinions of SOME, but written evals? That's COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS to me. Let's just remember that when you ask for an eval from an impressionable teenager who is not qualified to do so you are probably going to get his opinion as well as the opinion and influence of his dad, youth coach, uncle Johnny, Ol' Mr. Weatherby the cranky neighbor from down the street, his girlfriend, mom and gramps. Basically, I respect them and will even empower them ON THE FIELD to make decisions, but they are still the players and we are still the coaches. I think it's still appropriate to have the "chain of command". I think asking them to evaluate us blurs that line. |
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Post by jlenwood on Nov 9, 2014 15:14:59 GMT -6
Absolutely trust the opinions of SOME, but written evals? That's COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS to me. I would agree with this. I don't think a written, anonymous eval would get you useful info. Mostly stuff like "your offense sucks", but I still contend that a one on one conversational exit interview, especially from seniors, can be beneficial. |
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Post by Coach.A on Nov 9, 2014 15:27:57 GMT -6
I'm against evaluations from players (e.g. On a scale of 1 to 10 how would you rate my play-calling).
But I'm in favor of getting feedback & constructive criticism from players (e.g. What did you think of our practice format this season? What areas need improvement? What is our programs greatest need or area that requires the most improvement for next season?, etc...)
The ability to accept criticism and use it to reflect and improve is a key component of a growth mindset. Agreed..........from those who are competent to do so. Teenagers? Nope. Nov 9, 2014 15:20:31 GMT -5 s73 said: steelhawk Avatar Nov 9, 2014 14:40:40 GMT -5 steelhawk said: Maybe we're lucky, but I think our varsity players are competent enough to answer some of those questions honestly. It doesn't mean I'm going to revamp the entire program based on their answers, but I think there is value in hearing what your players are thinking. Are you telling me that you wouldn't even trust the opinions of your senior captains? s73 Avatars73 Avatars73 Avatar Nov 9, 2014 14:28:33 GMT -5 s73 said: No. Not telling you that. I speak w/ my senior captains regularly and I have meetings with them and ask them questions about how things are going within the team dynamic, how they are handling week's gameplan, etc. I also feel I have an excellent rapport with them as well as many other players. But.....that's not what the OP asked. I think casual conversation as well as meetings in which we are working and assessing things TOGETHER as staff and captains is much different from what the OP asked as well as what some of the responses were IMO. Absolutely trust the opinions of SOME, but written evals? That's COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS to me. Let's just remember that when you ask for an eval from an impressionable teenager who is not qualified to do so you are probably going to get his opinion as well as the opinion and influence of his dad, youth coach, uncle Johnny, Ol' Mr. Weatherby the cranky neighbor from down the street, his girlfriend, mom and gramps. Basically, I respect them and will even empower them ON THE FIELD to make decisions, but they are still the players and we are still the coaches. I think it's still appropriate to have the "chain of command". I think asking them to evaluate us blurs that line. Fair enough, but your post is very confusing when you quote my response about getting constructive feedback from players, then later claim you're referring to the OP's post. |
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Post by natenator on Nov 9, 2014 17:36:10 GMT -6
Any math teachers on here? Ones that actually majored in math? Randomize your selection OR choose the entire population. Both will remove the selection bias issue. Use open-ended survey's and/or interview style. Do not conduct the interview yourself as it leads to significant response bias, prestige bias in particular. Have an independent person code the responses making note of the different themes and topics emerging then categorize making sure that responses are related to the topic at hand When we begin assigning "weights" to this coding you will remove the "noise" associated with response who are just people trying to grind an axe or those who are uninterested. Who knows, maybe there's something in those responses by those players as to WHY they are uninterested/lazy/unresponsive? Something simple that you haven't considered? Maybe you begin to see a consistent relationship develop among these players and their responses? When you ONLY select from people you deem "worthy" you inherently skew the results. When you ask questions in a leading manner you inherently skew the results. When you conduct the survey/interview yourself you absolutely skew the results. I'm not saying you need to make this some big analytical process but I'm a firm believer that if you are going to do things such as this you should be doing them properly to ensure you receive data that's relevant, reliable, and valid otherwise just don't even bother. I'll leave it at that  |
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Post by shocktroop34 on Nov 9, 2014 18:02:47 GMT -6
In essence, if you are engaging in open and honest communication throughout the year with your players, parents, and administrators you don't need an evaluation.
When you are a proactive coach, you are usually in tune with how your players are feeling, and an evaluation is redundant.
In other words, an evaluation only reinforces what you already know (be it good or bad).
The only time I thought to have an evaluation/survey was when taking over a new program and I wanted to know what was good, what was bad, and what is something new we can do.
Other than that, an evaluation seems reactive, when it is simply more effective to be proactive.
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Post by Chris Clement on Nov 9, 2014 18:04:48 GMT -6
Definitely good points. Cherry-picking the players you deem "most worthy" is just going to tell you what you want to hear. The disgruntled players may have more interesting and useful responses.
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Post by jlenwood on Nov 9, 2014 18:49:25 GMT -6
Any math teachers on here? Ones that actually majored in math? Randomize your selection OR choose the entire population. Both will remove the selection bias issue. Use open-ended survey's and/or interview style. Do not conduct the interview yourself as it leads to significant response bias, prestige bias in particular. Have an independent person code the responses making note of the different themes and topics emerging then categorize making sure that responses are related to the topic at hand When we begin assigning "weights" to this coding you will remove the "noise" associated with response who are just people trying to grind an axe or those who are uninterested. Who knows, maybe there's something in those responses by those players as to WHY they are uninterested/lazy/unresponsive? Something simple that you haven't considered? Maybe you begin to see a consistent relationship develop among these players and their responses? When you ONLY select from people you deem "worthy" you inherently skew the results. When you ask questions in a leading manner you inherently skew the results. When you conduct the survey/interview yourself you absolutely skew the results. I'm not saying you need to make this some big analytical process but I'm a firm believer that if you are going to do things such as this you should be doing them properly to ensure you receive data that's relevant, reliable, and valid otherwise just don't even bother. I'll leave it at that Lets see...make a Federal Case out of it, or...use some common sense and just ask a few of your position players what they thought about the season. Seriously, "coding" responses. The OP asked about an evaluation sheet and got some responses on that. I just put out there what I have done in the past, out of 10-14 defensive backs I might have, 5-6 may actually be how many who played varsity, and maybe 2 who are seniors. I ask the exiting seniors about the season. Get a idea to see if anything needs to be changed, tweaked or otherwise. I am not a coordinator, or a HC, so all info I gather is for me and my use. If I hear something that seems to be a reoccurring theme, I might pass that on to the HC. I am "in tune" enough with my players to know who will give good info, and not just what I want to hear. Now if you have 100 players and you are sending out a sheet, than maybe the stuff that natenator is suggesting is the way to go. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 9, 2014 19:04:14 GMT -6
Any math teachers on here? Ones that actually majored in math? Randomize your selection OR choose the entire population. Both will remove the selection bias issue. Use open-ended survey's and/or interview style. Do not conduct the interview yourself as it leads to significant response bias, prestige bias in particular. Have an independent person code the responses making note of the different themes and topics emerging then categorize making sure that responses are related to the topic at hand When we begin assigning "weights" to this coding you will remove the "noise" associated with response who are just people trying to grind an axe or those who are uninterested. Who knows, maybe there's something in those responses by those players as to WHY they are uninterested/lazy/unresponsive? Something simple that you haven't considered? Maybe you begin to see a consistent relationship develop among these players and their responses? When you ONLY select from people you deem "worthy" you inherently skew the results. When you ask questions in a leading manner you inherently skew the results. When you conduct the survey/interview yourself you absolutely skew the results. I'm not saying you need to make this some big analytical process but I'm a firm believer that if you are going to do things such as this you should be doing them properly to ensure you receive data that's relevant, reliable, and valid otherwise just don't even bother. I'll leave it at that Surely you realize how ridiculous you sound here by blathering on about how to get "relevant, reliable, valid" data...with such a small sample size as a HS football team. natenator -- you have Educational Reformer consultant written all over you. I mean seriously, your post read like the kind of crap you see from those who think ALL schools should be "A" schools --and then define an "A" school as scoring really high on standardized tests like the schools in high socioeconomic areas with selective enrollment do. Data, data data.... |
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Post by natenator on Nov 9, 2014 19:17:57 GMT -6
Any math teachers on here? Ones that actually majored in math? Randomize your selection OR choose the entire population. Both will remove the selection bias issue. Use open-ended survey's and/or interview style. Do not conduct the interview yourself as it leads to significant response bias, prestige bias in particular. Have an independent person code the responses making note of the different themes and topics emerging then categorize making sure that responses are related to the topic at hand When we begin assigning "weights" to this coding you will remove the "noise" associated with response who are just people trying to grind an axe or those who are uninterested. Who knows, maybe there's something in those responses by those players as to WHY they are uninterested/lazy/unresponsive? Something simple that you haven't considered? Maybe you begin to see a consistent relationship develop among these players and their responses? When you ONLY select from people you deem "worthy" you inherently skew the results. When you ask questions in a leading manner you inherently skew the results. When you conduct the survey/interview yourself you absolutely skew the results. I'm not saying you need to make this some big analytical process but I'm a firm believer that if you are going to do things such as this you should be doing them properly to ensure you receive data that's relevant, reliable, and valid otherwise just don't even bother. I'll leave it at that Surely you realize how ridiculous you sound here by blathering on about how to get "relevant, reliable, valid" data...with such a small sample size as a HS football team. natenator -- you have Educational Reformer consultant written all over you. Nope. Not in education at all. I'm sorry some can't handle another giving input on the proper way to do something so as to yield the best results possible. Now save your insults for someone else. I'm done with this thread. Have a good night everyone. #GoBears |
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Post by fantom on Nov 9, 2014 19:26:58 GMT -6
Coaches, Have you ever had kids complete an evaluation sheet of the coaching staff? Would like to know the pros and cons of this idea? I envision they would complete an evaluation sheet and not put their names on it. I've read all of the messages and they've confirmed the reason that we don't do this: It's more trouble than it's worth. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 9, 2014 19:36:15 GMT -6
Nope. Not in education at all. Neither are educational reformers and the consultants. That is exactly my point! You proved it nicely for those of us in education. No insults. Your premise that such things would yield "the best results possible" are debatable at best. Your comments parallel some of those made in the S&C that I have referred to as "pocket protector science", which might indeed show up in controlled labs, but has no effect in practice. None of those comments are insults. They just reflect the difference between data driven, and people/experience driven situations. Again, like the educational reformers--who view children as data points and do not differentiate between the kid whose parents are in jail and was born with fetal alchohol syndrome, and whose parents are Heathcliff and Claire Huxtable. Also, like those who espouse the "never punt, always onside kick because the DATA says so (as opposed to other more valid reasons to have a philosophy). That data fails to take into account other significant factors, so although it would probably be considered "relevant, reliable, and valid" I think experienced and successful football coaches might not find it applicable. Same here. |
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