viking
Junior Member
Posts: 483
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Post by viking on Oct 27, 2014 22:44:47 GMT -6
I would say in my 11 years of doing end of season interviews for feedback, the most common suggestions have something to do with changing up practice or making it less repetitive. We do change up the order we do things, but it's hard to get away from indy fundamentals, skelly / pass pro and rush, special teams, and team time. Is the answer simply to "embrace the grind" am I being stubborn and we need to do something "fun" and different once a week just to break things up?
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Post by fantom on Oct 27, 2014 23:22:27 GMT -6
I would say in my 11 years of doing end of season interviews for feedback, the most common suggestions have something to do with changing up practice or making it less repetitive. We do change up the order we do things, but it's hard to get away from indy fundamentals, skelly / pass pro and rush, special teams, and team time. Is the answer simply to "embrace the grind" am I being stubborn and we need to do something "fun" and different once a week just to break things up? What would you cut out?
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Post by jlenwood on Oct 28, 2014 6:00:05 GMT -6
Is the answer simply to "embrace the grind" am I being stubborn and we need to do something "fun" and different once a week just to break things up? Personally, I love practice, but the thing is I am always busy. The reality is that it doesn't always happen that way for the players. Think about whether or not you have something going on at all times for your players. In other words, when you run KOR or punt or whatever, do you have other kids standing around? If you are running inside run, whats up with the players that are left, again are they standing around? There are a ton of different ways to run drills during indy to still get the EDD results, but with the change up each day things aren't so repetitive. Think about the old Dunkin' Donuts commercial where the guy got up every morning with the suicidal look on his face and said "Time to make the donuts", that's what practice becomes for a lot of theses short attention span players that we have these days. They are used to gaming and other "busy" types of things and then we have practices were you have half the team standing with their thumb up their ---. Towards the end of the season, one of the things I try to do is once a week for my indy time with whatever position group I have is run competitive drills. For receivers we will set up barrels in the shape of routes we run, pair 2 receivers against each other and have a finish line. We run the barrels (routes) and they have to catch a ball and cross the line first to win. Process of elimination until we have a winner. The players think they are just running around barrels. I know they are running a route, catching a ball, and competing to win something...everybody benefits and they aren't bored with the same old shiz every week. Aren't there days where you hate to go to work because you know it is going to be the same old thing. This is the closest thing to work these kids know, so we as coaches need to make it as enjoyable as it can be for them or they might start looking for other jobs. Doesn't mean every day is fun time, but it can be hard, grind it out work but challenging and with a variety to it that keeps it interesting. Especially hard toward the end of a season, but I think it can be done.
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Post by jlenwood on Oct 28, 2014 6:01:58 GMT -6
Also love the fact that you are doing end of season interviews.
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viking
Junior Member
Posts: 483
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Post by viking on Oct 28, 2014 7:53:41 GMT -6
To me, I don't think there is anything we can cut out as those are all things that have to be done. We seem to always be crunched for time so I don't feel like adding things much. The way I see it we have 2, maybe 3 days of "prime" practice time (Tuesday / Wednesday). Monday is more of a walk through / install and Thursday more walk through. I'm just looking for ways to do it better if there are any. Thanks for the feedback.
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Post by fantom on Oct 28, 2014 8:20:00 GMT -6
To me, I don't think there is anything we can cut out as those are all things that have to be done. We seem to always be crunched for time so I don't feel like adding things much. The way I see it we have 2, maybe 3 days of "prime" practice time (Tuesday / Wednesday). Monday is more of a walk through / install and Thursday more walk through. I'm just looking for ways to do it better if there are any. Thanks for the feedback. Our practice schedule is almost exactly like yours. Like you, we don't believe that we can cut anything else so our practices don;t change much as the season goes on. Maybe, in your exit interviews, if a kid says that practices get boring, you could ask them what they'd cut.
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Post by fshamrock on Oct 28, 2014 10:06:38 GMT -6
How about cutting down on individual periods as the season goes on? I don't pretend to know the science but don't we at some point reach a point of diminishing returns doing the same drills over and over again? By week 9 if the right guard doesn't play with great pad level, two more weeks of the chute will probably not change it, he's been in the chute for four months now. Same goes for other positions, is your WR really going to learn how to cut in week 9? or the RB going to learn how to keep his feet up by running through those dummies the 4,789th time? Let's have individual to install the game plan, little bit of inside run, run the script in team, and call it a practice. It's not as if your not getting reps on technique anymore, you coach that stuff on the run during inside and team sessions. Seems like that would keep coaches and players a little fresher as you get down to those critical late season games.
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Post by fantom on Oct 28, 2014 10:19:30 GMT -6
How about cutting down on individual periods as the season goes on? I don't pretend to know the science but don't we at some point reach a point of diminishing returns doing the same drills over and over again? By week 9 if the right guard doesn't play with great pad level, two more weeks of the chute will probably not change it, he's been in the chute for four months now. Same goes for other positions, is your WR really going to learn how to cut in week 9? or the RB going to learn how to keep his feet up by running through those dummies the 4,789th time? Let's have individual to install the game plan, little bit of inside run, run the script in team, and call it a practice. It's not as if your not getting reps on technique anymore, you coach that stuff on the run during inside and team sessions. Seems like that would keep coaches and players a little fresher as you get down to those critical late season games. Disagree. Teaching technique is about building habits and that's done through repetition. When you stop the repetition, the habits, technique, deteriorate. Baseball players take batting practice every day. Basketball players shoot every day. Football players need to keep working on their skills to stay sharp. Another reason to keep working individual is that we're dealing with young kids and each "gets it" at a different pace. If that sophomore backup right guard finally learns to keep his pad level down then now I have a possible contributor for the stretch run or at least have something to build on next year. This is one big reason why D.1 coaches want to get into a bowl game, no matter how crappy. It gives them a chance to work with those younger guys.
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Post by fshamrock on Oct 28, 2014 11:35:01 GMT -6
I agree with your disagreement (if that's a thing) I'm not advocating that we abandon individual all together. What I should have said is that we can cut back on the time it takes to get individual done because our drills have advanced to the point where they are no longer broken down into many parts. For Example: I coach offensive line (which makes me a blashpemer to many for wanting less individual) on day 1 of two-a days we spend time repping every step that we take in our offense then we rep taking those steps on different angles then we rep taking those steps on the correct angles off the ball and making contact then we rep making contact correctly and engaging defenders then we rep engaging defenders and using leverage to create movement then we rep finishing blocks and sustaining blocks ...all of those are separate drills
by now, I want to be able to say "let's work on blocking down" and we should be able to coordinate all of those things into one drill and spend a fraction of the time in individual that we used to need.
I'm not saying it's the best possible scenario, but the OP was looking for ways to make practice less boring, and individual is boring. I also feel the need to mention that in a few weeks we will be in the offseason and all of those lineman will spend their time flippin' tires, wrasslin', and shufflin' between cones for next eight months and completely forget all the movement patterns that we have so painstakingly tried to teach all season. That point has nothing to do with the this thread but it is annoying to me and feels good to type about it to a group of strangers on the internet
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Post by fantom on Oct 28, 2014 11:38:40 GMT -6
I agree with your disagreement (if that's a thing) I'm not advocating that we abandon individual all together. What I should have said is that we can cut back on the time it takes to get individual done because our drills have advanced to the point where they are no longer broken down into many parts. For Example: I coach offensive line (which makes me a blashpemer to many for wanting less individual) on day 1 of two-a days we spend time repping every step that we take in our offense then we rep taking those steps on different angles then we rep taking those steps on the correct angles off the ball and making contact then we rep making contact correctly and engaging defenders then we rep engaging defenders and using leverage to create movement then we rep finishing blocks and sustaining blocks ...all of those are separate drills by now, I want to be able to say "let's work on blocking down" and we should be able to coordinate all of those things into one drill and spend a fraction of the time in individual that we used to need. I'm not saying it's the best possible scenario, but the OP was looking for ways to make practice less boring, and individual is boring. I also feel the need to mention that in a few weeks we will be in the offseason and all of those lineman will spend their time flippin' tires, wrasslin', and shufflin' between cones for next eight months and completely forget all the movement patterns that we have so painstakingly tried to teach all season. That point has nothing to do with the this thread but it is annoying to me and feels good to type about it to a group of strangers on the internet OK, we're on the same page here.
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Post by Underdeveloped on Oct 28, 2014 11:52:26 GMT -6
grab your lunch pail... work is monotonous at times. welcome to the real world
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Post by JVD on Oct 28, 2014 21:38:51 GMT -6
I would like to agree with the agreement above on the disagreement. I also coach O-line and I will tell you that by week 4 the drills run themselves. SO...what use to take us 20 min. now takes us 12. Now what? GOOD! Now we break down those dirty defenses we are facing. We will do it with a 2 on 2 or 3 on 3 drill based on what we are facing. THEN..when we get to TEAM...we get to see the whole thing.
I know the biggest hurdle I face is proving to the kids that what we do in a 2 on 2 drill is EXACTLY what they will see when we are doing team and thus..if they do THEIR JOB...they are doing the right thing...don't worry about the other 10 folks on your side of the ball...worry about YOU!
EVERY DAY: Chutes; eXit strategy (X-block drill); mouse TRAP drill (trap drill).
...guess what our 2 base blocking schemes are....
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Post by CoachWeitz on Oct 29, 2014 7:44:21 GMT -6
I think one of the tougher parts of coaching is finding a way to make the routine engaging. I'm with the previous posters in being stuck in the middle. I agree that you must continue to rep the essential drills and skills that develop your players but the magic is finding ways to make sure the players view them as engaging. One of the major things we notice in our area is that teams that make consistent playoff runs continue to stay on top for a variety or reasons, but one of the bigger ones we think is that they get an extra 2/3rds of a season of practices (6 weeks if you go to state here) which allows JV and Freshmen to gain that experience, especially when they are on the scout team.
I think developing depth in a drill is an important part of keeping these players growing. What I mean by that is at the beginning of the season you are working on the individual steps and breaking each of them down to make sure the foundation is solid, as the season progresses on you can start to move to deeper into your drill progression, focus on higher level skills and add competition.
Another approach I am looking to develop more this year is to come up with a full Rolodex of drills for different skills. For example this season we had something like 6-7 ball security drills that we would rotate (we do 2-3 ball security drills every day). One of the things I'm looking to develop this offseason is a much wider array of ball security drills that we can rotate through to keep them fresh and engaged, kind of a variety in monotony.
In the end no one way will do it and I think a lot comes down to the coach communicating the purpose, focusing on different coaching cues, bringing energy and finding a way to have fun with it.
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bison37
Probationary Member
Posts: 13
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Post by bison37 on Oct 29, 2014 10:13:47 GMT -6
As a 1st year HC at my current school, taking over a program that was as bad as any team could be, I wanted to maximize efficiency. So due to some good recruiting I had 68 players...which allowed me to directly copy Chip Kelly's Oregon practices...music and all (I even stole his playlist). We went up-tempo, no water breaks (players watered in line for a drill), and we reduced to a 1 hour sprint-style practice. Everything was hurry-up tempo so we didn't have to condition all year.
It worked great at first, but due to work, homework, some players playing community football on Tues and Thurs our practice numbers dwindled to around 50.....which is still great. 30 of that 50 were in grades 9 and 10 (varsity squad 9-12). So we had to slow down a bit to ensure the kids would understand what we were doing (coaching shortage was also a problem).
I got too caught up trying to make it different that I ended up overlooking some things: punt team. Week 1, game 1 I forgot to rep punt!! So we didn't punt....not once all game. Which was actually OK for us. So we didn't punt for the next three games. We spent way too much time on our Team O periods due to a new offence we installed.
I think as long as you can get everything you need completed, then that's how long practice should be. I reworked our practice schedule about 30 times, before I got something that was suitable to my team's needs. From now o instead of scheduling time blocks for drills I am scheduling a Reps based system. That way if our team is dialed in and focused they can get out of practice even faster. Which feeds into our no-huddle offence mentality.
To work around boredom with a drill you can introduce a competition (fastest ladder drill completion, etc), allow players to pick a constructive drill...or prepare increasing levels of difficulty for each drill so you can advance as the season progresses.
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