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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2014 21:33:54 GMT -6
For the 52 years the high school I'm at has been playing football they have the following statistics:
1. .438 win percentage
2. 8 Playoff appearances
3. 6 Playoff wins
4. 3 District Championships
5. 1 Regional Championship
6. 0 State Championship Game Appearances
7. 20 Head Coaches
8. Longest tenure by HC = 13 years (.531 win percentage)
9. 10 winning seasons
10. 5 .500 seasons
Our A.D. has kicked around the idea of going to an independent classification. I've never been a part of this move, and was wondering if anyone else on here might have been that can share what happened. How was the transition? What are the pros/cons? In your opinion, is it a good move based on the above statistics? Do you think by moving to independent and getting teams on the schedule more of our "caliber" you can change said program, or is 52 years worth of data a pretty good indicator you simply cannot win here?! Just trying to feel out what the plans are, like I said, never been through this, but just wondering what, if any, good may come of this.
Duece
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 28, 2014 4:31:25 GMT -6
Duece, can you quickly explain what Independant means in this case. Does it just mean joining a different conference where location doesn't matter, out of district like you said? I'm from New England and I've never heard that term before.
I do think moving to a different conference with more equivalent talent would help your program, especially for the kids, parents, boosters, and fans. They all have fun when you're winning and they don't really care what class or division you're in.
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Post by olcoach53 on Oct 28, 2014 5:12:51 GMT -6
I think if there if you guys are able to move to a different conference you should consider it.
We had a team who was a middle of the pack team, for the most part, had a few up years and had more down years. Long story short, they moved to another conference and finished this season 8-1 and tied for conference champs. Sometimes it helps the program.
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Post by irishdog on Oct 28, 2014 7:22:47 GMT -6
Our program made the move from a district to independent last year. We're only 5 years old, and while the school's enrollment increased significantly (we are still small in numbers - 365) the football numbers did not. They were getting killed on the field, and the program was getting killed at the same time. Decided to go independent last year and won two games. I took over this year and so far we are 4-3, and our football numbers jumped from 28 to 41.
Our plan is if the enrollment climbs over 400 (state association cutoff between Division 1 and Division 2), and our football numbers stay the same, we will stay independent rather than be required by the state to move into Division 1. IF the enrollment stays the same, and our football numbers jump up, we will make the move to get into a Division 2 district.
Disadvantage to independent status in our state is that we cannot go to the playoffs, and our kids don't get any district recognition. The kids can get all-state if they are good enough, but that rarely happens. Also, it is really tough to schedule games in the latter part of the season as most opponents are playing district games.
If you have the opportunity to move into another district, where the opponents are similar in size and competitive ability, I would do that before going independent.
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Post by gibbs72 on Oct 28, 2014 7:23:00 GMT -6
How does that affect creating a schedule for the year? In our area, teams have trouble filling an open week because of conference/ state playoff conflicts. I can't imagine trying to fill all 6 regular season games (the last 3 are state district games) without being in a conference.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2014 8:34:22 GMT -6
What it means is opting out of being in a district. So no playoff chances, no post-season (although I do think they play "bowl games" as they call them in some cases). I'm sure scheduling would be tough. I looked at our state ranking index and of the 50 teams in our classification, we are only ranked higher than 2, 1 of those 2 being in our district (who we beat by 3 TD's this year), and one who is over 200 miles away.
I have a good friend that coached at a place that went independent some 15 years ago, and they had a TON of success doing it. They went back to a district 4 years ago and have not had a winning season since. They are also looking at going back to being independent. Anyhow, just bending some ears, as usual, thanks guys.
Duece
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Post by realdawg on Oct 28, 2014 9:05:01 GMT -6
A couple of pitfalls to be aware of that have been mentioned. 1) Scheduling. In a conference you are promised a certain number of games. As an independent you will have to find 10-11 games. 2). Playoff situation. You are not given a certain number of slots into the playoffs like in a conference. 3) post season all conference awards.
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Post by fantom on Oct 28, 2014 9:15:08 GMT -6
What it means is opting out of being in a district. So no playoff chances, no post-season (although I do think they play "bowl games" as they call them in some cases). I'm sure scheduling would be tough. I looked at our state ranking index and of the 50 teams in our classification, we are only ranked higher than 2, 1 of those 2 being in our district (who we beat by 3 TD's this year), and one who is over 200 miles away. I have a good friend that coached at a place that went independent some 15 years ago, and they had a TON of success doing it. They went back to a district 4 years ago and have not had a winning season since. They are also looking at going back to being independent. Anyhow, just bending some ears, as usual, thanks guys. Duece How would this affect other sports? |
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Post by wolverine55 on Oct 28, 2014 9:25:53 GMT -6
The effect on other sports is a legitimate question and in Illinois, moving to an independent would be a scheduling nightmare, although there are a few who make it work. Don't know they dynamics of scheduling in your state, however.
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 28, 2014 9:27:49 GMT -6
No chance of playoffs would probably be a deal breaker for me.
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caseys8527
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You are either coaching - or letting it happen
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Post by caseys8527 on Oct 28, 2014 10:09:22 GMT -6
Duece - I took over a team that was year 1 in to an independent schedule and coached through three more years. This is our first year back in league.
We are a private school who's academic rigor I would line up against anyone in the country. We have some serious challenges getting a large enough class in to compete. SO the administration decided to go independent to try and rebuild - brought in a coaching staff and tried to schedule winnable games.
My thoughts it was a band aid and didn't really fix why the school went independent in the first place. We won more games - because we played hand picked teams. We traveled A LOT. a sense of pride returned to the football team. All were good things. Playoffs couldn't happen unless we went 8-0 in our first 8 - and we weren't that good.
After 4 years of independent schedule for football we were required by the league to either return or withdraw entirely from the league (all sports) - so we are back in.
Our league is filled with dominant catholic schools (3 ranked in the top 15 of the state). For reference - we played the #3 ranked team in the state on their senior night - they graduated 30 seniors and we have 34 kids suited up.
We aren't in the right league or classification (we opt up 2 levels) - and I am not in control of either of those things.
So - short term - yeah it was fine. Long term - if there isn't a plan/vision in place I don't know what the point is.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2014 13:02:05 GMT -6
No shot at the playoffs and the scheduling headaches would make it a non-starter for me.
You could possibly load up the schedule with 10 cream puffs, if you can find them, but with no postseason, no rivals, and no championship of any kind to play for, doesn't that just turn the season into a bunch of exhibition games?
In our state, I don't think you can go independent in one sport. I believe it affects them all, which would be a disaster for other programs. I may be mistaken on that.
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Post by fcboiler87 on Oct 28, 2014 13:26:24 GMT -6
I definitely believe there are situations that justify this happening. I have seen this happen on several occasions in the state of Kentucky. There are just some teams who cannot compete because of various reasons. I'm talking years of 0-10, 1-9. It's really hard to keep things together like that. The teams that have dropped out end up scheduling each other (though you are talking some serious road trips). It has allowed them to win some games and develop some momentum as a program that there is no way they would have obtained otherwise. I know a lot of you are saying no playoffs is a deal breaker, but to those kids and those programs that have never been successful, just winning really is enough for them. I can see it as I've been on both sides of the coin (successful and historically not successful programs). It's not something many programs should do but there are definitely those that can consider it and may benefit from it.
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Post by coachphillip on Oct 28, 2014 14:21:18 GMT -6
The few teams around here that were independent, became so for different reasons. They petitioned out of the league so they could play better competition lol.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2014 17:13:10 GMT -6
We are allowed to do so in just 1 sport if we choose. Sports work independently (lol, no pun intended) of each other here. Scheduling would be a bit of an issue, but we have some teams on our schedule that we are even with and would probably leave on there. Legitimately would be looking for 6-7 games a year.
The playoffs thing is kind of a deal breaker for me, as we actually went last season for the first time in 10 years. Our hopes are hanging in the balance this season b/c we didn't take care of business, but once we go to the playoffs, things are so lopsided it isn't funny. The last 3 post season trips by this school the scores have been 76-0, 58-14, & 59-0. I think the fans and the kids would much rather go say 7-3 and then get a chance at a bowl game somewhere where we'd have to travel, or play a team we are completely unfamiliar with at the end of the season. Anyhow, just some thoughts. There's been enough coaches here for me to know, it ain't that, this is just a tough place to win, and the proof is in the pudding.
Duece
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