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Post by rbcrusaders on Sept 13, 2014 23:10:17 GMT -6
This season is becoming ugly.
A few weeks before the season, our head coach tragically passed suddenly.
The special teams coach was named interim head coach, and TWENTY more coaches were hired. The problem is, none of them actually teach the game. They changed everything from the defense to the offense and numbering system. The first voluntary practices they were at, coaches were berating players and being so negative and "you need to grow balls!" that 4 of our best players left the team and school.
I think the reason we aren't winning is because we are not teaching them well enough. The game plan wasn't sound but thats a different story. In practice, all there is really is punishment, emphasis on being tough and yelling. We don't teach them how to do fundamental things. We don't rep the plays we will see over and over until it is right. The offense only runs on air. I asked once if I could set up a scout team and the oc said "no, because this is a teaching session". (he also does things like tell the backs NOT to cut it up when they find a hole on a stretch play.)
Then, when we lose, the first thing in the coaches room is always the players not performing. They are all very negative as well, and sometimes it seems like the kids are the enemy. I do not believe it is true. Practice is just not efficient.
The next problem is that we have a legend as a coach, but they took his defensive lineman from him and named him "assistant head coach". Effectively, he is a figure head and he knows it. He is constantly pointing out things that are wrong or that we should be doing differently, etc, as suggestions but he is never listened to. We listen to him, the season instantly turns around.
I feel stuck. It is a tough situation, especially because I feel I have no real input either because I am young. We are failing as a staff, but there is nobody that will admit it. If I ever bring it up as my feeling, I am shot down and the players are to blame. I could show you film and you'd see that they are simply not being taught.
Does anyone have any experience with anything like this? I am so frustrated.I just want to help these kids get a win.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2014 9:21:02 GMT -6
20 new coaches?!? How big of a school is this?!
I've worked in a place with an atmosphere like that and it sucks. Lots of coaches have if you read the threads on here. Unfortunately, there are bad coaches out there who don't understand the game as well as they think they do. Yelling at players for not being tough enough or smart enough is not coaching.
Let me guess... your OL doesn't know who or how to block because they're always on air? Nobody else blocks for crap, either? The offense is just a collection of random plays with little carry over and new stuff installed every week? The QB looks like a deer in the headlights back there? You have a lot of fundamental issues on defense but they somehow look better than the pitiful offense? Techniques are bad because you have very little time for individuals? Special teams look like a joke? Players are continuing to quit/skip practice and are pointing fingers at each other for the losses? Does any of that sound familiar?
The unfortunate reality is that you cannot fix this because those who outrank you, particularly the new HC, don't understand that the problems start with them and they aren't about to admit that. You are in one of the worst positions for a young assistant to be in. You're a cabin boy on the Titanic.
All you can do is finish the season and then get out, unfortunately. Find a better program for next season where they have a clue. Maybe the people in charge make a change and dump the new incompetent HC you have now and replace him with someone who knows how to run a team, since he is just an interim, but in my experience that process may take a few years to come to a head.
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Post by wingtol on Sept 14, 2014 10:50:48 GMT -6
I would distance your self from this staff as much as possible now during the season then run like hell once it's over. It still boggles my mind that there are coaches like this out there still but then again after watching some of the teams we have played it does not. Not to be a d**k but thanks for another "damn am I lucky to coach where I do and coach with the guys that I do!" thread. Try and stay sane this season!
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Post by 33coach on Sept 14, 2014 11:05:54 GMT -6
Wow coach...that's terrible.
Run. Fast. And get your resume ready for next year.
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Post by olcoach53 on Sept 14, 2014 11:12:34 GMT -6
Coach YOUR best and do what you can to make sure the kids that have stuck it out don't hate football for the rest of their lives. Just coach like you would normally coach and keep an eye open for job openings.
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Post by rbcrusaders on Sept 15, 2014 17:57:34 GMT -6
Let me guess... your OL doesn't know who or how to block because they're always on air? Nobody else blocks for crap, either? The offense is just a collection of random plays with little carry over and new stuff installed every week? The QB looks like a deer in the headlights back there? You have a lot of fundamental issues on defense but they somehow look better than the pitiful offense? Techniques are bad because you have very little time for individuals? Special teams look like a joke? Players are continuing to quit/skip practice and are pointing fingers at each other for the losses? Does any of that sound familiar? How in the world did you do that?? Are you psychic?? That is absolutely SPOT ON. Incredible.
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Post by coachcotner on Sept 17, 2014 7:58:03 GMT -6
That is tough man. Just continue to coach your butt off the best you can and start looking for better opportunities once the season ends. You have more patience than I do I can assure you that. I would have probably been fired by now lol
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Post by rbcrusaders on Oct 1, 2014 20:08:02 GMT -6
Update. Spoilers-it has not improved very much.
We are still winless. 0-5. Not only that, but were getting blown out and shut out. To some very poor teams, we are losing by 3, 4 scores. The worst part is that we are actually pretty damn talented, and before our coach passed we were thinking that we were going to be pretty damned good. However, now we aren't.
Our (huge) coaching staff is just not gelling to begin. We are really failing to teach them anything at certain positions. The blame, though, is put entirely on the players for either not being talented enough or not being "intense and tough enough."
Last game, the worst things as of yet happened. At halftime, as we were walking to the locker room, I started asking the receivers coach about certain things to get a dialogue going because I want to win. Well, the coaches (a 21 year old kid) response was "worry about the damn defense." So yeah I got pretty pissed and told him that I am worrying about the defense, but Im worried about the offense too because I want to win. I was told I would be the running backs coach when all the extra guys were hired, but kinda pulled myself out because I was 1 of 3 and I honestly thought having that many opinions coaching one position would not help us. I also told him that it really was not good tact to be talking like that to me in front of the players when all I was doing was attempting to converse. This was just so far out there in my opinion...especially because I really do not think we are coaching them correctly. SO fine, I won't talk about the offense anymore.
But then after the game, the HC called a meeting with all the coaches and asked the question-how can we turn this around. The same kid that got loud with me at half time offered this pearl of wisdom-we are losing because we are not talented enough and there is nothing we can do, we will continue to lose because we are just as good as a grade school team playing against USC. I listened to coaches agreeing about this point for five minutes before I couldn't hear it anymore. I came out and said I disagree 100% and that we are losing because of us as coaches, and these really are evidence of what Im talking about. The players are not taught how to block, who to block, how to run, how to catch, how to run routes, etc and so on and so forth. It really is amazing. Well, I was told I was wrong basically. I pointed out that the team we played lost to a team that I coached for the season before and that is on completely different levels talent wise. In fact, it is remarkable how much MORE talented we are as a team, but we lost (got creamed) by this team that my old team beat. Their reason-they are more talented, have more speed, and are bigger than us, which are all simply not true. So basically, I do not know what else I can do.Its frustrating. The only reason (in my opinion) that we are even in games is because our kids are keeping us in them through talent. I have never been on a staff like this.
Seriously, Im at a loss for words and am struggling to come to work with guys who don't teach, then are incredibly hard on the kids. I want to help, but its like when I try to do just that, they get offended. I am not trying to offend them, Im only trying to win. But that blow up at halftime was just something I can't get over. Aside from the fact that I am supposed to have a say on offense, even if I WAS only a defensive coach, it is pretty weak to blow up at a fellow coach in front of your players because he attempts to talk about how to win.
What the hell should I do?
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Post by coachcotner on Oct 2, 2014 9:14:10 GMT -6
Update. Spoilers-it has not improved very much. We are still winless. 0-5. Not only that, but were getting blown out and shut out. To some very poor teams, we are losing by 3, 4 scores. The worst part is that we are actually pretty damn talented, and before our coach passed we were thinking that we were going to be pretty damned good. However, now we aren't. Our (huge) coaching staff is just not gelling to begin. We are really failing to teach them anything at certain positions. The blame, though, is put entirely on the players for either not being talented enough or not being "intense and tough enough." Last game, the worst things as of yet happened. At halftime, as we were walking to the locker room, I started asking the receivers coach about certain things to get a dialogue going because I want to win. Well, the coaches (a 21 year old kid) response was "worry about the damn defense." So yeah I got pretty pissed and told him that I am worrying about the defense, but Im worried about the offense too because I want to win. I was told I would be the running backs coach when all the extra guys were hired, but kinda pulled myself out because I was 1 of 3 and I honestly thought having that many opinions coaching one position would not help us. I also told him that it really was not good tact to be talking like that to me in front of the players when all I was doing was attempting to converse. This was just so far out there in my opinion...especially because I really do not think we are coaching them correctly. SO fine, I won't talk about the offense anymore. But then after the game, the HC called a meeting with all the coaches and asked the question-how can we turn this around. The same kid that got loud with me at half time offered this pearl of wisdom-we are losing because we are not talented enough and there is nothing we can do, we will continue to lose because we are just as good as a grade school team playing against USC. I listened to coaches agreeing about this point for five minutes before I couldn't hear it anymore. I came out and said I disagree 100% and that we are losing because of us as coaches, and these really are evidence of what Im talking about. The players are not taught how to block, who to block, how to run, how to catch, how to run routes, etc and so on and so forth. It really is amazing. Well, I was told I was wrong basically. I pointed out that the team we played lost to a team that I coached for the season before and that is on completely different levels talent wise. In fact, it is remarkable how much MORE talented we are as a team, but we lost (got creamed) by this team that my old team beat. Their reason-they are more talented, have more speed, and are bigger than us, which are all simply not true. So basically, I do not know what else I can do.Its frustrating. The only reason (in my opinion) that we are even in games is because our kids are keeping us in them through talent. I have never been on a staff like this. Seriously, Im at a loss for words and am struggling to come to work with guys who don't teach, then are incredibly hard on the kids. I want to help, but its like when I try to do just that, they get offended. I am not trying to offend them, Im only trying to win. But that blow up at halftime was just something I can't get over. Aside from the fact that I am supposed to have a say on offense, even if I WAS only a defensive coach, it is pretty weak to blow up at a fellow coach in front of your players because he attempts to talk about how to win. What the hell should I do? Wow that is tough.......I wish I had words of wisdom for you for the rest of your season, but all I can say is to keep coaching your balls off on every little detail you can with your position group or unit and hope that some of the other coaches see what you are doing and it rubs off onto them. If the culture doesn't change with the other coaches by the spring then it may be time to update that resume. Wish I could help more Coach.
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Post by coachphillip on Oct 2, 2014 10:01:55 GMT -6
"When all the BS hits the fan, coach your guys." Best advice I ever received. At the end of the day, you owe it to the players you're responsible for to have them best prepared to play on Friday. Who cares about the receivers? Coach your position group to the best of your ability. Let those idiots ruin the season for their own position kids. It isn't ideal, but it doesn't look like you're in a situation that's gonna get better. Just coach up your kids and get the heck out of there in the spring.
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Post by rbcrusaders on Oct 2, 2014 11:00:28 GMT -6
Here is another issue. I was asked by the head coach to call the offensive plays for the JV games which I gladly accepted. Firstly, I think I did a good job because I ran a simple and low amount of plays with the theory of helping the JV kids get good at a few things rather than throw them the entire playbook. It worked out for us well and when I decided to start trusting my gut, we staged a comeback in the 2nd half.
Well I guess for some reason-again, because I am seen as a 'defensive' coach, which really isn't true in my opinion- the coaches on offense are really unhappy that I am calling the JV offense (even though I am doing it because I am able to consistently make the games) and they are trying to take it from me. Im not happy with this because I was asked to do it and gladly accepted, and I believe I am doing good things for the JV kids in the little bit of responsibility that I have.
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Post by mariner42 on Oct 2, 2014 11:47:23 GMT -6
Dang. Even when I thought I had it bad a few years back, I never had it like that.
I would be getting really unprofessional, really fast amidst a situation like you described.
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Post by rbcrusaders on Oct 2, 2014 13:02:28 GMT -6
well how so? maybe I should be!!! haha.
just the other day , I'm running scout team, telling my scout defense that I'm proud of them for really competing and giving a good look...and the offensive line coach raises his voice at ME for sending blitzes. Have you ever seen a coach get mad at a scout unit for actually giving a good look??
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Post by coachphillip on Oct 2, 2014 13:29:05 GMT -6
I'm an OL coach and I would be ticked if you were doing things you weren't supposed to. If we were off script, I would be mad if you were showing blitzes that they don't run or blitzing when we were doing a base install. If we were on script, I would be mad if you didn't run the defensive look you were supposed to because then I wouldn't be able to look at the most common problem areas in the play. Not saying that's what you were doing.
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Post by newhope on Oct 2, 2014 13:46:40 GMT -6
Good advice given above, "coach your position to the best of your ability". You seem to be on a very poor staff--and how in the world 20 people can coach I can not fathom. I would advise against trying to tell the offense what they're doing wrong--even if it's obvious to everyone but them. That's just not going to go over well, is not going to do you any good, and is going to cause problems. I'm not sure why the HC would have defensive coach calling plays on JV. I can't see how that's going to go over well with offensive guys. I can see a problem with a scout team sending blitzes, if that's not what the offense wants to see at that time. There's a difference between the scout team being aggressive and having them blitz like crazy when that's not what the offense wants to work against. On the other hand, is he scripting the scout team or giving your instructions on what he wants done? I want the scout team playing hard, but I don't want them bringing the house if the opponent doesn't, I don't want them "playing the play"---I don't need scout team All Americans.
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Post by rbcrusaders on Oct 2, 2014 19:37:30 GMT -6
I'm an OL coach and I would be ticked if you were doing things you weren't supposed to. If we were off script, I would be mad if you were showing blitzes that they don't run or blitzing when we were doing a base install. If we were on script, I would be mad if you didn't run the defensive look you were supposed to because then I wouldn't be able to look at the most common problem areas in the play. Not saying that's what you were doing. Would you be mad if I was running exactly what the opposing team runs, including the exact blitzes that the other team does, and running plays that the offensive coordinator asked me to run?
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Post by rbcrusaders on Oct 2, 2014 19:43:02 GMT -6
Good advice given above, "coach your position to the best of your ability". You seem to be on a very poor staff--and how in the world 20 people can coach I can not fathom. I would advise against trying to tell the offense what they're doing wrong--even if it's obvious to everyone but them. That's just not going to go over well, is not going to do you any good, and is going to cause problems. I'm not sure why the HC would have defensive coach calling plays on JV. I can't see how that's going to go over well with offensive guys. I can see a problem with a scout team sending blitzes, if that's not what the offense wants to see at that time. There's a difference between the scout team being aggressive and having them blitz like crazy when that's not what the offense wants to work against. On the other hand, is he scripting the scout team or giving your instructions on what he wants done? I want the scout team playing hard, but I don't want them bringing the house if the opponent doesn't, I don't want them "playing the play"---I don't need scout team All Americans. I want to reiterate here what my point is. I am NOT a "defensive coach". I was hired to be linebackers and wide receivers coach. Then I was switched to linebackers and running backs coach. My exact point was that this whole you are defense, we are offense is something that really was not implemented at all. I was told that I was to have a say on defense and offense. I was asked to do JV offense because, as I said -1. I knew that I would be able to make every game and 2. I am just as much an offensive coach as anyone else (or at least, that is what I was told on day one.) As for scout team defense, as I said previously, I am running exactly what the offensive coordinator asked me to run. It was the offensive line coach-not the o coordinator-who started getting loud when they were doing it correctly.
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Post by coachcotner on Oct 2, 2014 20:02:16 GMT -6
Good advice given above, "coach your position to the best of your ability". You seem to be on a very poor staff--and how in the world 20 people can coach I can not fathom. I would advise against trying to tell the offense what they're doing wrong--even if it's obvious to everyone but them. That's just not going to go over well, is not going to do you any good, and is going to cause problems. I'm not sure why the HC would have defensive coach calling plays on JV. I can't see how that's going to go over well with offensive guys. I can see a problem with a scout team sending blitzes, if that's not what the offense wants to see at that time. There's a difference between the scout team being aggressive and having them blitz like crazy when that's not what the offense wants to work against. On the other hand, is he scripting the scout team or giving your instructions on what he wants done? I want the scout team playing hard, but I don't want them bringing the house if the opponent doesn't, I don't want them "playing the play"---I don't need scout team All Americans. I want to reiterate here what my point is. I am NOT a "defensive coach". I was hired to be linebackers and wide receivers coach. Then I was switched to linebackers and running backs coach. My exact point was that this whole you are defense, we are offense is something that really was not implemented at all. I was told that I was to have a say on defense and offense. I was asked to do JV offense because, as I said -1. I knew that I would be able to make every game and 2. I am just as much an offensive coach as anyone else (or at least, that is what I was told on day one.) As for scout team defense, as I said previously, I am running exactly what the offensive coordinator asked me to run. It was the offensive line coach-not the o coordinator-who started getting loud when they were doing it correctly.The bold is another issue in itself...........it is natural for coaches to have disagreements and what not. We are all human and tempers will flare but you don't get vocal about it in front of players. That is office talk not practice field talk.
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Post by rbcrusaders on Oct 2, 2014 20:20:27 GMT -6
^^^ Coach, that is my main point. I am fine with being disagreed with, that honestly is not the issue.
Before our prior coach passed and the new guys were hired, a big thing we had emphasis on was "disagreeing with each other is ok and even encouraged, but its GOTTA be in the coaches room/in private, and in front of the players we are on the same page."
Even still, though, this wasn't even disagreement.
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Post by mariner42 on Oct 2, 2014 20:23:14 GMT -6
well how so? maybe I should be!!! haha. just the other day , I'm running scout team, telling my scout defense that I'm proud of them for really competing and giving a good look...and the offensive line coach raises his voice at ME for sending blitzes. Have you ever seen a coach get mad at a scout unit for actually giving a good look?? ...When the scout D is whipping the offense, I'm loving them up and getting them excited and talking very loudly about how much I love it when we get up in their a$$. Happened yesterday, actually. Thing is, my OC/HC knows that when we are the toughest defense we see that week, we win games, so he's happy with it... afterwards. I'll be honest: the only person who gets to talk down to me or actively disagree with me in front of the kids is the HC. If I've got Johnny Come Lately 3rd string WR coach telling me that he can do a better job calling plays than me, we're going to have a pretty serious conversation. I also have serious problems with coaches who blame the kids for lacking personality traits when they aren't developing their SKILLS. Shows a clear lack of understanding about what coaching really is.
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 2, 2014 22:12:40 GMT -6
What a mess. The HC obviously isn't much of a leader. It all falls on him in my opinion. If he was a leader, he would put the moronic coaches in their place. Becausr there's no leadership, it seems to me as if the assistants are steering the ship. Also, where the hell is the Athletic Director?
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Post by newhope on Oct 3, 2014 14:33:14 GMT -6
I got you. I didn't clearly understand your role before. That's just a mess you are involved with there. Good luck.
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Post by rbcrusaders on Oct 7, 2014 19:59:59 GMT -6
Todays practice was a disaster.
e had a defensive practice for the states best team who runs double wing. Our scout team really didn't give a great look, but it got worse from us imo. We are low on numbers, but the bad showing was on us. Coaches hated the kids not doing well on scout squad and let them know. One started going off about how they were all {censored} and going to get their ass kicked, etc.
Finally he goes "{censored} this, you run the plays. this is pointless" and chucks the ball at another coach and walks off.
Granted, they weren't doing a very good job...but that was not the way I would have wanted it.
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agame
Junior Member
Posts: 378
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Post by agame on Oct 9, 2014 0:27:13 GMT -6
Is your Hc named Rick vice? ? Lol
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Post by coachklee on Oct 9, 2014 3:26:43 GMT -6
I'm an OL coach and I would be ticked if you were doing things you weren't supposed to. If we were off script, I would be mad if you were showing blitzes that they don't run or blitzing when we were doing a base install. If we were on script, I would be mad if you didn't run the defensive look you were supposed to because then I wouldn't be able to look at the most common problem areas in the play. Not saying that's what you were doing. In the chaos of his situation, I doubt that a script exists...
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Post by olcoach53 on Oct 9, 2014 5:07:19 GMT -6
Wouldn't that be ironic though. Mass chaos and anarchy...perfectly scripted practices.
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Post by rbcrusaders on Oct 9, 2014 9:22:25 GMT -6
scripted practice? have you guys been listening??? lol!
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Post by coachphillip on Oct 9, 2014 9:53:52 GMT -6
4:05 Team D 4:07 "You guys suck" 4:08 "You're never gonna win" 4:09 Throw schedule in air 4:10 "You run this cr@p" 4:11 Special Teams
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Post by rbcrusaders on Oct 9, 2014 20:40:13 GMT -6
coachphillip hit it on the head. 4:11-5:11-special teams
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Post by rbcrusaders on Nov 3, 2014 22:16:56 GMT -6
Well, it looks like the circus has ended in ugly fashion.
We play a team that had us mercy ruled in the first quarter this season at the end of the week. When I got in today, the season was apparently cancelled.
Last week, the mom of the punter who the team wanted off came and complained to the school that her son was being bullied and picked on, and because of that, she wanted our game and season cancelled. In reality, it is a shame that she had to go and do something like that in a season where we really are trying to teach these kids a valuable lesson in a season filled with tragedy. Disappointed in her immature actions. What is that kid learning from his mother?
The worst, though, is what happened after
Apparently, they had all came into the locker room and were making noise, throwing things around-basically vandalizing their locker room. When the coach yelled into it "whats going on in there" and began walking in, they all sprinted out of the locker room, jumped in their cars and left. The remaining 5 or 6 kids would not tell hc what had happened (rather 'they didn't see').
Looks like just about the ugliest way to end the ugliest season I've ever been involved with.
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