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Post by airitout616 on Dec 16, 2006 17:46:20 GMT -6
Do you think Mount Union could compete against either the NAIA Sioux Falls or the D2 champs Grand Valley State ? And do you think Grand Valley could compete with App. State ? Also do you think the Mount Union team could compete in the GLIAC one of the toughest leagues in all of D2 withc includes Grand Valley, Saginaw Valley, Northwood, Northern Michigan , Wayne State , Indy U, Mercyhurst , etc.. cant think of them all.
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Post by willblitz on Dec 16, 2006 19:36:43 GMT -6
Do you think Mount Union could compete against either the NAIA Sioux Falls or the D2 champs Grand Valley State ? And do you think Grand Valley could compete with App. State ? Also do you think the Mount Union team could compete in the GLIAC one of the toughest leagues in all of D2 withc includes Grand Valley, Saginaw Valley, Northwood, Northern Michigan , Wayne State , Indy U, Mercyhurst , etc.. cant think of them all.
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Mount Union would get mopped up in the GLIAC or any other DII conference. The NAIA DII is basically DIII football so yeah I think they could hang with the champs there. The GLIAC is way too tough for any DIII school period. Now if schools like Mt. Union or even the runner up U.W Whitewater were to go too DII status and get scholarships then yeah. They have a good tradition started and that would carry over a bit.
GVSU hanging with APP. State unlikely. I am sure GVSU could hang with many IAA schools but not the top tier schools. These of course are just my opinions.
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Post by jjkuenzel on Dec 16, 2006 19:41:52 GMT -6
Anytime you move up a level, the top teams can compete with the mid level teams. D3 and NAIA are more or less equivalent so the top teams there could compete with each other. Top D3 teams such as Mt. Union, UWW, and St. Johns can beat low to mid level D2's. Grand Valley state can compete with the low to mid level D1AA. App State can certainly hang with the low to mid level D1's as well.
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Post by wildcat on Dec 16, 2006 20:03:53 GMT -6
I was wondering about this earlier today...
Do D-II teams every schedule D-III teams for a "tune-up" game, kind of like how D-IA teams will schedule D-IAA teams?
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Post by airman on Dec 16, 2006 20:16:44 GMT -6
I played college ball in the wiac. It is a tough confrence. teams beat on each other all seaon long. It is not uncommon for the wiac champion to have 1 loss in the confrence. top 3 teams annual are UWL, UWW, Point. Toss in UW EC and Stout and back in the 1980's UWRF dominated(it being the smalles school in the confrence).
The school I played at played 2 types of D2 schools in nonconfrence games. we played the northen sun which is a d 2 confrence and has a scholarhsip max of 26. most schools are no where near this. some are like a winona state min is. We could beat those teams easy. infact there used to be a WIAC vs NISC face off at the HHH metro dome. Was not uncommon for the wiac to run the table. winona state is the class of the confrence however.
we also played a NCC north central confrence teams like St Cloud state and North Dakota. THE NCC used to be the premire D2 confren until NDSU adn SDSU left. THE Top NCC teams beat us bad and the bottom teams beat us in close fought games.
THE GLIAC is the best D2 confrence now from NCC coaches I have talked to. The NCC is tought, U of north dakota is I think the class of the league. great facilities and a very good coach plus they are a oneback zone run team whcih I like for a running team.
For mount union to compete they would have to get more Ohio State castoffs. heck that one year all their line had been at ohio state.
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Post by hchscoachtom on Dec 16, 2006 20:32:23 GMT -6
Wildcat, don't know if this still done, but many years ago, 1980 I played for Northwestern College, of Orange City, IA. NWC is NAIA Div 2. That season we traveled east to Grand Valley for a game in October, our mid-term break. We competed with them, but lost the game. I remember getting a flag on a kick-off for a late hit. Oops.
At that time the OC for NWC was no other than Mel Tjeersma (pronounced "Church"ma) the head coach at NW Missiouri State. (He was also my faculty advisor). So he has a history with GVSU, last year losing to them in DII Championship, and then 25 years ago with NWC.
Just a bit of football trivia for those interested. Kinda cool to see he & his staff bring NW Missiouri State back to championship game again.
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kr7263
Sophomore Member
Posts: 228
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Post by kr7263 on Dec 16, 2006 21:10:46 GMT -6
From D3football.com - 2006 DIII vs DIAA (8win 7loss), vs DII (6win 9 loss) vs NAIA (23 win 8 loss); 2005 DIII vs DIAA (7-10), vs DII (8-10), vs NAIA (19-12) Having coached at a full scholarship DII school and a DIII school that has been nationally ranked. There is absolutley no way the majority of DIII schools can play with full scholarship teams. However, many DIAA, DII and NAIA schools do not carry the full scholarship limit. Finally, I believe Mt. Union could be as competitive as any team in DII or NAIA.
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Post by airman on Dec 16, 2006 21:13:27 GMT -6
From D3football.com - 2006 DIII vs DIAA (8win 7loss), vs DII (6win 9 loss) vs NAIA (23 win 8 loss); 2005 DIII vs DIAA (7-10), vs DII (8-10), vs NAIA (19-12) Having coached at a full scholarship DII school and a DIII school that has been nationally ranked. There is absolutley no way the majority of DIII schools can play with full scholarship teams. However, many DIAA, DII and NAIA schools do not carry the full scholarship limit. Finally, I believe Mt. Union could be as competitive as any team in DII or NAIA. Like valpo, they are d1 non scholarship adn they play d3 teams. they have a hard time against them. I think it depends on the NAIA schools. some of them are not scholarship and some are. |
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Post by bucksweepdotcom on Dec 17, 2006 3:28:10 GMT -6
IMHO teams like Mnt. U and Rowan would be competive in DII. When I played against Rowan they were loaded with D IA transfers. To say a team like Mercyhurst would mop them up IMO is not true.
Bryan
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herky
Sophomore Member
Posts: 189
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Post by herky on Dec 17, 2006 9:21:01 GMT -6
After watching a replay of the NAIA game this morning....I was very disappointed. The way St Francis played in the 2nd half....some of the teams left in the TX playoffs could give them a run for their money was the feeling I was left with.
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Post by stackattack on Dec 17, 2006 9:59:37 GMT -6
Also do you think the Mount Union team could compete in the GLIAC one of the toughest leagues in all of D2 withc includes Grand Valley, Saginaw Valley, Northwood, Northern Michigan , Wayne State , Indy U, Mercyhurst , etc.. cant think of them all. WOW, this was an ongoing debate throughout our season. Our head coach played for Mt. Union and won the nat'l title every year he played there, while our LB coach played and coached at Northern Michigan. Adding to the mix that our DB coach just graduated from Mt. Union and some very interesting arguments took place. Just funny how this debate has found its way to this forum. I'll have to let them know. |
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Post by ccscoach on Dec 17, 2006 11:11:57 GMT -6
Still No respect for the NAIA......The thing that i hate about D2 is how conferences limit scholarships(PSAC) makes the playing field unfair and the landscape a little different than what it could be......
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Post by stackattack on Dec 17, 2006 11:38:14 GMT -6
I'm not sure what it is like at other DIII colleges but Mt. Union is full of players from the OH/PA, who are borderline DI/DI-AA players. Most of those players either have the choice of playing at a school like Kent State or Buffalo, with the perception of getting beat every week, or going to Mt. Union and winning championships. Or they are players with just as much talent to play D-I ball but don't have the genetics in the way of height, etc. The talent and athletes at Mt. Union is staggering considering the obstacles they face in recruiting (i.e. no scholarships). Just adds more to the other argument that the best college coach in Ohio may not be wearing the scarlet and grey. As for the debate of whether they could compete in the GLIAC...I say they would be at the top nearly every year, but then again I am a little biased.
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Post by blb on Dec 17, 2006 11:43:31 GMT -6
There are a lot of kids playing D-III football because, while they want to play college football and have the physical ability to play at a higher level, they don't want to spend 20+ hours a week, seven days a week, 52 weeks a year for five years doing it.
The last D-III college I coached at we had kids who had given up full rides at Toledo, Western Michigan, and the University of Michigan.
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Post by wildcat on Dec 17, 2006 11:53:11 GMT -6
After watching a replay of the NAIA game this morning....I was very disappointed. The way St Francis played in the 2nd half....some of the teams left in the TX playoffs could give them a run for their money was the feeling I was left with. I kind of felt the same way...was not really impressed. I think that most of the NCAA D-III playoff teams could have beat or at least would have been really competitive with the two NAIA teams. What was up with the field? Was that a high school field? You think that a championship game would warrant a bigger venue... |
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Post by wildcat on Dec 17, 2006 11:56:21 GMT -6
There are a lot of kids playing D-III football because, while they want to play college football and have the physical ability to play at a higher level, they don't want to spend 20+ hours a week, seven days a week, 52 weeks a year for five years doing it. The last D-III college I coached at we had kids who had given up full rides at Toledo, Western Michigan, and the University of Michigan. blb - Good points. I played D-III football at a mid-level school in the early '90s. It was basically an extension of high school ball. When I go to D-III games now, it is incredible how far it has come in that time. The facilities, the off-season training...unbelievable. |
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Post by ccscoach on Dec 17, 2006 13:48:32 GMT -6
heres a question were do JUCO's rank?  meaning could a good Junior College like say Georgia Military beat Mt. Union or Grand Valley??? My opinion is that JUCO is pretty much the same as D2 with kids that may not be the brightest crayon in the box.....I disagree with DIII being able to play with top level NAIA(MT Union is the execption) these teams are more comparable to D2 due to of Scholarship money. I think the fact the NAIA schools don't get the exposure of the D2 and D3 schools is what hurts them. Also there is a perception that this is some what of a renegade league because they don't play by NCAA rules the truth is we will never know because just like the BCS they won't decide it on the field......Ducking and waiting for the wrath of those that played at D3 schools that were successful |
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lex42
Sophomore Member
Posts: 184
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Post by lex42 on Dec 18, 2006 12:16:25 GMT -6
The last D-III college I coached at we had kids who had given up full rides at Toledo, Western Michigan, and the University of Michigan. Why would any body turn down a full-ride to the University of Michigan for a D-III school? I find that hard to believe. |
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Post by blb on Dec 18, 2006 12:29:53 GMT -6
Didn't turn it down - he took it. Transferred after two years at UM.
Read the FIRST part of my orginal post and you'll know why. He was more interested in being a doctor than a football player.
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Post by coachstryker on Dec 18, 2006 12:39:11 GMT -6
yeah, that dedication part gets them. that midnight train blows it whistle loud. they go back to their town saying " Yeah I could have played D1" knowing they was one of the first ones to jump on that train after lights out.  |
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Post by blb on Dec 18, 2006 12:55:56 GMT -6
Well, stryker, in this young man's case, somebody at the highest level (The University of Michigan) thought he could play D-I football, enough to give him a scholly.
As a junior for us he caught 71 passes, including 11 TDs, in nine games, and was an academic All-American. He didn't play as a senior so he could graduate and get into med school early.
Now he makes enough money in his chosen profession to buy and sell you and me both.
I'd say his college choices worked out alright for him.
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Post by airman on Dec 18, 2006 15:23:16 GMT -6
i know of several schools where kids washed out at d1 and ended up at d2 and 3 schools.
now 1 aa really benefits from transfers down.
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viking
Junior Member
Posts: 483
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Post by viking on Dec 31, 2006 11:24:43 GMT -6
I played at a pretty good D3 in Iowa. We played the good JUCO from Kansas (can't think of name, maybe Butler CC?) one year and they beat us, but I was not impressed as we were never concerned with JV wins / losses (everyone played), and they actaully scouted us - something we didn't do because obviously our coaches would be scouting for the varsity. That year we made the quarterfinals in D3 playoffs. So anyway, I think there are some really good JUCO teams / players, but the good D3s would beat them handily.
I am pretty confident that my school would be Drake, a 1-AA non-scholarship team in Iowa that is pretty good from year to year, every year.
As far as D-III vs D-II, every year a D-III beats a pretty good D-II. I think one of the WIAC schools beat a D-II who beat a 1-AA who beat Colorado this year... not that that means anything, but I think you get the point. I think the good D-IIIs would play with most of the D-II teams consistently. The upper level D-IIs, probably not as much.
As a coach who now gets to sit back and evaluate the NAIA's here, I think the good D-IIIs are better, but they are not far apart.
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meaning could a good Junior College like say Georgia Military beat Mt. Union or Grand Valley??? My opinion is that JUCO is pretty much the same as D2 with kids that may not be the brightest crayon in the box.....I disagree with DIII being able to play with top level NAIA(MT Union is the execption) these teams are more comparable to D2 due to of Scholarship money. I think the fact the NAIA schools don't get the exposure of the D2 and D3 schools is what hurts them. Also there is a perception that this is some what of a renegade league because they don't play by NCAA rules the truth is we will never know because just like the BCS they won't decide it on the field......Ducking and waiting for the wrath of those that played at D3 schools that were successful 