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Post by fantom on Jul 15, 2014 13:06:20 GMT -6
How big of an advantage do you think home field advantage is in HS football? I realize that circumstances may be different so:
Long trip vs. short trip (under an hour)?
League opponent vs. unfamiliar?
Regular season vs. playoffs?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 13:27:17 GMT -6
I think it's a big deal if the trip is long. If a team just got off a 2-3 hour bus ride, they are at a clear disadvantage.
Also, if you're fortunate enough to be at a place that gets some good ol' home cookin' from the refs, you have an advantage. I think most of us have played or know of teams that are notorious for stuff like that, where the calls (and non-calls) are very one-sided.
Then there are weird quirks, like if your players know there's a boulder, a hole, or part of a building foundation sticking out of the grass in a certain area of the field and can use that obstacle to their advantage. I've seriously played and coached on fields like that. Talk about a literal homefield advantage.
Otherwise I don't think it matters much unless you're a very special team with a huge, packed, loud stadium. This isn't the BCS or NFL. The talent disparities being what they are in HS football, I don't think it amounts to much unless the teams are evenly matched to begin with.
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Post by fantom on Jul 15, 2014 14:06:24 GMT -6
Also, if you're fortunate enough to be at a place that gets some good ol' home cookin' from the refs, you have an advantage. I think most of us have played or know of teams that are notorious for stuff like that, where the calls (and non-calls) are very one-sided. Then there are weird quirks, like if your players know there's a boulder, a hole, or part of a building foundation sticking out of the grass in a certain area of the field and can use that obstacle to their advantage. I've seriously played and coached on fields like that. Talk about a literal homefield advantage. Wow, I can't overstate how different your playing and coaching experience has been from mine.
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Post by freezeoption on Jul 15, 2014 14:30:32 GMT -6
you made me laugh, coached at a place where they used wood chips for the track that went around the field as the track, end zone went into the wood chips, dbs would stop when the receiver went into the chips and we still had 5 yards to catch the ball, scored several tds that way, on the other end one corner of the end zone went right up to a concrete wall and other side went to a chain link fence, had to wait 30 min one time because a kid slid under the chain link fence and it took forever to get him out cause he was stuck under it
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Post by veerman on Jul 15, 2014 14:58:47 GMT -6
Think it depends on environment. I agree if one is coming from far distances away it could be an advantage, but other than that think homefield is not that big. But there are some places that create a Big Time SEC type atmospheres on their own way that could make it an advantage. Most cases I would say defiantly no.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 15:10:02 GMT -6
you made me laugh, coached at a place where they used wood chips for the track that went around the field as the track, end zone went into the wood chips, dbs would stop when the receiver went into the chips and we still had 5 yards to catch the ball, scored several tds that way, on the other end one corner of the end zone went right up to a concrete wall and other side went to a chain link fence, had to wait 30 min one time because a kid slid under the chain link fence and it took forever to get him out cause he was stuck under it When I played, we had the fields with boulders and building foundations poking out of the grass. I have no idea how this was legal. Nothing like trying to contain a sweep and rolling your ankle on a huge friggin' pipe sticking out of the ground or tackling a kid to the ground on a big smooth rock. At my last stop, one of the schools had a big tree growing out of the corner of the end zone. There were roots poking out under the back pylon. I also played against a school who had a cow pasture that came right up to the end zone, complete with an electric fence less than 10' from the back line. Receivers were a little tentative to go deep there...
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Post by macdiiddy on Jul 15, 2014 20:09:57 GMT -6
I would say if the trip is over an hour there is definitely an advantage for the home team. Outside of that, in high school, even if there is a large and loud crowd, I have never heard them quite down for the offense. Noise level tends to stay constant.
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Post by gators1422 on Jul 15, 2014 22:10:56 GMT -6
It obviously helps to be good first off. We do the whole show during our home games, tunnel, smoke, we pump music in between plays and we have a lot of people at the games. Not sure how it affects the other team but our kids don't think they can lose at home, and none of them have. We have a 21 game winning streak right now and kids that graduated this year never lost at home dating back to JV. Does any of the theatrics help, I don't know, but if it helps your kids believe in it then its worth something.
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Post by carookie on Jul 15, 2014 23:47:13 GMT -6
There have been studies about home field advantage in sports in general; this is the most famous one-http://scorecasting.com/
what they tend to say is that the biggest advantage home field provides is that fans sway the officials. Human nature gives in somewhat to booing, and sometimes seeks applause, that has consistently been shown to be the actual home field advantage.
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Post by mountainman on Jul 16, 2014 8:16:33 GMT -6
We are located at 6500 ft. above sea level. During the season we play a lot of teams from our area that are at similar altitude and I don't think it factors in. During the playoffs we play a number of teams who have to come up from sea level or around 1000 feet elevation. It plays a HUGE part then! It is always amusing to see these teams gasping for air 1/2 way through the 1st quarter. Also, many of these teams are still practicing in 90+ degree weather. It is often in the mid 20's-30's during the playoffs up here. Also a huge advantage.
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Post by silkyice on Jul 16, 2014 8:51:04 GMT -6
you made me laugh, coached at a place where they used wood chips for the track that went around the field as the track, end zone went into the wood chips, dbs would stop when the receiver went into the chips and we still had 5 yards to catch the ball, scored several tds that way, on the other end one corner of the end zone went right up to a concrete wall and other side went to a chain link fence, had to wait 30 min one time because a kid slid under the chain link fence and it took forever to get him out cause he was stuck under it When I played, we had the fields with boulders and building foundations poking out of the grass. I have no idea how this was legal. Nothing like trying to contain a sweep and rolling your ankle on a huge friggin' pipe sticking out of the ground or tackling a kid to the ground on a big smooth rock. At my last stop, one of the schools had a big tree growing out of the corner of the end zone. There were roots poking out under the back pylon. I also played against a school who had a cow pasture that came right up to the end zone, complete with an electric fence less than 10' from the back line. Receivers were a little tentative to go deep there... Are you serious?
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jul 16, 2014 8:54:25 GMT -6
My high school game field had a crown so high that I swear when we looked across the field all we saw was the head and shoulders of the opponent.
We were an option team, so (at least in our minds) we felt that it favored us. We weren't very good, but it was nice to at least think we had an advantage.
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Post by coachorm on Jul 16, 2014 9:10:07 GMT -6
I think distance travelled plays a big role in home field advantage. Especially what all happens on that trip. 2 years ago a team came to play us and got stuck behind a wreck on the interstate for about an hour in the sweltering late august heat. Also Atmosphere can be a big thing. Some teams we play don't uses this at all. We try to use it to an extent. We start warm-ups with kids getting loud and staying loud. Always encouraging the yelling and whooping. during team offense/defense we have the non-participants that are standing in a line behind us constantly clapping loud. We follow that up with circling up and doing a full contact tackling drill. Gets lots of players from the other team looking at us and not focusing on their own warm-up. We play a team that calls their field the dungeon since they are the red devils. For their field entry they have the pick-up trucks backup to the fence beside the field and rev-up right before they run out, also they have a smoke machine running. Every year we have to remind our kids to ignore it because we always have some kids that lose focus and get caught up in that pageantry.
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Post by jg78 on Jul 16, 2014 11:12:10 GMT -6
A long road game is definitely a distraction. There's making arrangements for eating pregame out of town (if necessary), loading the bus, sitting on the bus for a few hours, a locker room that may be inadequate and too far from the field to return to at halftime, etc.
None of that is fun to deal with, but I don't know that any of it has cost us a game. What carookie said about referees having a natural tendency to favor the home team makes sense. I would rather deal with all the other hassles of a road trip than have a questionable call cost us field position, or even points.
If I may ask this question: If money for hotel rooms (and other expenses) were not a factor, how many of you would rather leave the night before a game?
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Post by fantom on Jul 16, 2014 11:50:16 GMT -6
A long road game is definitely a distraction. There's making arrangements for eating pregame out of town (if necessary), loading the bus, sitting on the bus for a few hours, a locker room that may be inadequate and too far from the field to return to at halftime, etc. None of that is fun to deal with, but I don't know that any of it has cost us a game. What carookie said about referees having a natural tendency to favor the home team makes sense. I would rather deal with all the other hassles of a road trip than have a questionable call cost us field position, or even points. If I may ask this question: If money for hotel rooms (and other expenses) were not a factor, how many of you would rather leave the night before a game? Oh, hell no.
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Post by flyinghelmet on Jul 16, 2014 12:11:25 GMT -6
A long road game is definitely a distraction. There's making arrangements for eating pregame out of town (if necessary), loading the bus, sitting on the bus for a few hours, a locker room that may be inadequate and too far from the field to return to at halftime, etc. None of that is fun to deal with, but I don't know that any of it has cost us a game. What carookie said about referees having a natural tendency to favor the home team makes sense. I would rather deal with all the other hassles of a road trip than have a questionable call cost us field position, or even points. If I may ask this question: If money for hotel rooms (and other expenses) were not a factor, how many of you would rather leave the night before a game? Oh, hell no. We did it last year in the playoffs. Lost, but I think it helped us focus.
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Post by carookie on Jul 16, 2014 13:35:08 GMT -6
A long road game is definitely a distraction. There's making arrangements for eating pregame out of town (if necessary), loading the bus, sitting on the bus for a few hours, a locker room that may be inadequate and too far from the field to return to at halftime, etc. None of that is fun to deal with, but I don't know that any of it has cost us a game. What carookie said about referees having a natural tendency to favor the home team makes sense. I would rather deal with all the other hassles of a road trip than have a questionable call cost us field position, or even points. If I may ask this question: If money for hotel rooms (and other expenses) were not a factor, how many of you would rather leave the night before a game? I have done the hotel thing a number of times and it has never been an issue. If $$ is not a problem I say do it when necessary
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 15:00:17 GMT -6
When I played, we had the fields with boulders and building foundations poking out of the grass. I have no idea how this was legal. Nothing like trying to contain a sweep and rolling your ankle on a huge friggin' pipe sticking out of the ground or tackling a kid to the ground on a big smooth rock. At my last stop, one of the schools had a big tree growing out of the corner of the end zone. There were roots poking out under the back pylon. I also played against a school who had a cow pasture that came right up to the end zone, complete with an electric fence less than 10' from the back line. Receivers were a little tentative to go deep there... Are you serious? Yep. The tree was *technically* not in the endzone, but it was just a couple of feet from the pylon and the roots did make it lumpy in that corner. If we ever play them again, I'll post pictures of it. The cow pasture was surreal. I actually lived in a dorm with an opposing player from that school with the pipe and one of the first things he did was joke about how they tried to make opponents trip on it. I guess when you win 2 games a year in your entire history as a school, it's the little things that keep it fun... Then there were the 2 different fields I've played and coached on with crowns so high you could only see your opponents from the chest up when they were standing on the sideline. Some of the rural schools in the mountains were built in places where "fields" do not really exist, so they just took the flattest area near the school they could find, leveled it as best they could, and built bleachers around it to create a stadium. It was like playing in a backyard, if half that backyard was solid rock.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 15:02:46 GMT -6
A long road game is definitely a distraction. There's making arrangements for eating pregame out of town (if necessary), loading the bus, sitting on the bus for a few hours, a locker room that may be inadequate and too far from the field to return to at halftime, etc. None of that is fun to deal with, but I don't know that any of it has cost us a game. What carookie said about referees having a natural tendency to favor the home team makes sense. I would rather deal with all the other hassles of a road trip than have a questionable call cost us field position, or even points. If I may ask this question: If money for hotel rooms (and other expenses) were not a factor, how many of you would rather leave the night before a game? Oh, hell no. I would not trust 90% of our players unsupervised in a hotel lobby for 5 minutes, let alone in a room for a whole night. Especially with girls around and whatever "surprises" they'd sneak in their bags.
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Post by jg78 on Jul 16, 2014 15:39:08 GMT -6
To answer my own question: I prefer to keep things as routine as possible, especially concerning the players. I think they'll all sleep better alone in their own rooms than they will with 3-4 friends in the same room the night before a game. Plus, staying the night means there's more logistical work that has to be done to get it all organized and that takes away from other things.
If it's a really long trip, I would rather leave earlier than necessary and break up it. We played a school a few years ago that was over four hours away. We had to beat them to make the playoffs. We left very early and stopped after an hour to eat breakfast. Stopped a couple hours later at a Bass Pro Shop for about 30 minutes and then ate a light lunch afterwards. We got to the city the school was in about 3:00-3:30 and ate our pregame meal. And then drove over to the school afterwards and had about an hour more than usual to sit around and relax. We played very well that night and won.
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Post by freezeoption on Jul 16, 2014 19:03:21 GMT -6
oh yes I am serious, and there was only one side of bleachers, so we had the visiting on that side, the crowd would fill milk jugs with rocks and shake them during the whole game, we went on a trip one time to a place that was a long ways away, 10 hours or so, stopped and practiced at a schools field, they had a small tree stump in the middle of the field, it was about 2 inches or so above ground, played at a school whose end zone was only 5 yards deep, if you ran out the back you dropped down a hill that was pretty steep, I have stories that could go on
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Post by rpetrie on Jul 16, 2014 19:43:25 GMT -6
To me the biggest issues are...locker room & where are coaches will go as spotters. To combat the locker room issue we only go in to use the bathroom & prepare fir preface. After that we stay out unless there is a weather issue. We try to find a side field to do our thing and stay away from game field except for Specials.
Secondly, we do not have the courtesy in our Division that teams provide space for the opponent box coaches, only for film. Some guys bring lifts or scaffolding. My BOE doesn't allow it so our opponents get bleacher space...which they hate. Then again we have to deal with the same on away games...so that does create an advantage IMO.
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Post by macdiiddy on Jul 16, 2014 19:50:10 GMT -6
we do not have the courtesy in our Division that teams provide space for the opponent box coaches, only for film. Some guys bring lifts or scaffolding. My BOE doesn't allow it so our opponents get bleacher space...which they hate. Then again we have to deal with the same on away games...so that does create an advantage IMO. That is obnoxious. One team we play yearly, plays at a middle school and have a tiny press box, but somehow we manage to get everyone in there.
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Post by rpetrie on Jul 16, 2014 20:10:00 GMT -6
It is what it is...most will say you can use the bleachers on the home side but you deal with the crowd. Visitor side bleachers are sometimes too low. Certain away games we don't use box coaches at all. What are we gonna do...kick the doors in? If my District allowed scaffolding or lifts then it wouldn't be an issue. They say it's a liability issue that was reinforced with the Notre Dame incident. It seems to bother other staffs more than me, guess I'm used to it. One other story was when I had my film guy locked out because the opposing coach thought he was bringing me info at halftime...when he was just getting a hotdog. Didn't get to film the 2nd half. Coaches protect their "boxes" around here!
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Post by fantom on Jul 16, 2014 20:52:06 GMT -6
It is what it is...most will say you can use the bleachers on the home side but you deal with the crowd. Visitor side bleachers are sometimes too low. Certain away games we don't use box coaches at all. What are we gonna do...kick the doors in? If my District allowed scaffolding or lifts then it wouldn't be an issue. They say it's a liability issue that was reinforced with the Notre Dame incident. It seems to bother other staffs more than me, guess I'm used to it. One other story was when I had my film guy locked out because the opposing coach thought he was bringing me info at halftime...when he was just getting a hotdog. Didn't get to film the 2nd half. Coaches protect their "boxes" around here! This might be the most bush league thing that I've ever heard..
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Post by macdiiddy on Jul 16, 2014 21:48:40 GMT -6
rpetrie It is your guys league and you can run it the way you want I suppose, however I think that is immature and poor sportsmanship to not allow other coaches use the press box, let alone lock out a filmer (presumably a High School kid). From an outsiders perspective, I would look to change that culture. Whether through conference mandate, or from simply opening your box for visiting coaches in hope that they will do the same. Even if you were allowed scaffolding and lifts, why would you make someone deal with that hassle instead of just carrying 2 chairs up to the press box.
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Post by dbeck84 on Jul 17, 2014 8:15:39 GMT -6
It is what it is...most will say you can use the bleachers on the home side but you deal with the crowd. Visitor side bleachers are sometimes too low. Certain away games we don't use box coaches at all. What are we gonna do...kick the doors in? If my District allowed scaffolding or lifts then it wouldn't be an issue. They say it's a liability issue that was reinforced with the Notre Dame incident. It seems to bother other staffs more than me, guess I'm used to it. One other story was when I had my film guy locked out because the opposing coach thought he was bringing me info at halftime...when he was just getting a hotdog. Didn't get to film the 2nd half. Coaches protect their "boxes" around here! One opponent of a school I used to coach at had a very small pressbox with no room for opposing coaches. I coached every game from the roof of the bus. It actually turned out to be a pretty good solution to the problem.
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Post by freezeoption on Jul 17, 2014 11:37:28 GMT -6
sorry, you can say just put two up chairs up there, but where, some of you guys do not know what some press box are like at some schools, in college I volunteered, on the last Friday game of the season I thought I was going to get to coach, but instead they put me on a lift to video from the end zone in a pouring rainstorm,
my first job out of college, I was a hfc at a small school, they had basically a big deer stand for the press box, made of wood, held the spotter/announcer, clock person, video and that is it, we would pick it up and move it after games to the motocross track that was next to the field so they could use it that weekend for races,
I have sat on top of busses before, I would prefer that than some crappy places I have been at. It kills me when people put money into the stadium but won't upgrade the press box. But I guess I am old fashioned, I believe the practice field should be the best field, since it is where I am going to do most of my stuff and hitting.
I got one, at a school I was at, I was up in the press box, it was a good size press box, but one slot was by the announcer. I knew the team we were playing and the guy they were going to send up in the box, he was a yeller. I moved the signs from home team coaches to visitor and vice versa. So now I was on the end and he was by the announcers. He kept yelling as the game went on and they kept asking him to be quiet when they were on the mike. He finally told to do something to themselves, they called down for a administrator to come up and remove him and the other team had to put a different coach up there.
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Post by rpetrie on Jul 18, 2014 20:40:46 GMT -6
rpetrie It is your guys league and you can run it the way you want I suppose, however I think that is immature and poor sportsmanship to not allow other coaches use the press box, let alone lock out a filmer (presumably a High School kid). From an outsiders perspective, I would look to change that culture. Whether through conference mandate, or from simply opening your box for visiting coaches in hope that they will do the same. Even if you were allowed scaffolding and lifts, why would you make someone deal with that hassle instead of just carrying 2 chairs up to the press box. Not saying I disagree...and in fact it's always been a shared scenario everywhere I'd been before this area. But I'm not "changing culture" for 50+ programs because I think everyone should play niceee-nice. Most places say there isn't enough room for both staffs. Others just blatantly say tough $@!#. In general most do allow scaffolding or lifts behind visitors side. My BOE won't allow their use home or away...so now what? I should screw myself all year and open my box with no return of favor? Our box holds announcer, clock operator & 2 cameras in first level...my 2 spotters cram in a crows nest above that. Like many other situations...things are different depending on where you coach. This happens to be one of my administrative obstacles that's out of my control. I guess I could get my hammer & nails out to build a bigger box. BOE wouldn't care that there's no CO or insurance for the structure. Fantom...it was a JH coach that was filming, but yea that was a bush-league move. Only happened 1x...but it did create quite an interesting convo after the game.
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Post by freezeoption on Jul 19, 2014 6:57:47 GMT -6
if other schools won't let you up in their press box then don't let them up in yours, keep track of who does and doesn't and reply the favor, that is what I am getting ready to do, I am going to send a letter out to schools we are going to this year, I am asking that they have room for one asst and a filmer with access to electricity, I will state that we have that at our place, and if they intend to use ours we expect to use theirs, I already know we may have a problem at a couple of places, so I am going to send it out, if we go there this year and are not treated right, the next year they will not be in ours, and I will send out a letter next season to the ones who will not be in ours, this has always been a pet peeve of mine,
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