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Post by 7384729737 on Oct 23, 2007 10:45:11 GMT -6
I see a lot of X's and O's on the board and I see a lot of talk about philosophy but I don't see much of, "When it comes to football my offensive/defensive philosophy is."
I just got finished reading a little on offensive philosophies and would really like to find mine. I have spent so much time reading X's and O's and technique that I've never really sat down and thought about this.
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Post by brophy on Oct 23, 2007 11:10:04 GMT -6
Philosophically speaking............
it is to run a scheme (formation + plays) that accomplishes basic objectives to threaten our opponent, with the ability to conjeal and adapt to whoever we are facing (i.e. multiple) as well as an influx of talent in our our program
On offense, it is to eliminate negative yardage plays,minimize adjustments (thinking) required, and make quick, smart decisions with the football through utilizing IZ,OZ, Jet sweep(zone blocking) and quick concept passing game (defender read passes). With this tofu approach to offense, we want to be able to attack the defense horizontally & vertically on any play with the ability to LOOK complicated (formations for matchups/stress a defense), but remain simple (not affecting various different assignments).
We treat special teams as game changing opportunities with the simplest of design (minimal moving parts, basic responsibilities) to pick up hidden yardage as "just another offensive play". Special teams are worked every day and developing consistent kicker / punters is a primary importance (close to important as a quarterback).
Specifically, on defense, it is to play YES/NO logic in run lane support to play fundamentally sound and aggressive run support to force an offense to execute perfectly to sustain a drive (convert downs).
The "philosophy" is that whatever defense we are using, it is just a TOOL we are employing for the main tenet - attack the football.
The "defense" we are in is the safety net we operate out of to attack a formation and defend the field.
On defense, we want to keep it as simple as possible (basic) with the emphasis on developing our COVERAGES and how they adapt / adjust to formation stresses. COVERAGE DETERMINES OUR FRONT.
Play fast, play simple, play aggressive.....with an emphasis on attacking the BALL, and not just defending the field (create takeaways on every down). SPEED is the biggest asset on defense for us - size, for a great deal is overrated.
in summation, the approach is for defending an opponent follows this logic-flow; 1 FIELD POSITION [/u]HOW MUCH AREA TO DEFEND 2 DOWN/DISTANCE[/u] CONVERSION LIABILITY 3 FIELD/BOUNDARY [/u]CONSTRICTED / EXPANDED LANES 4 PERSONNEL [/u]ATHLETICISM/ABILITY CEILING 5 FORMATION[/u] QUICK VERT THREATS / INSIDE RUN THREAT 6 DEEP SAFETY [/u]HOW MANY WE COMMITTING DEEP 7 FORCE PLAYER[/u] FLAT PLAYER IN COVERAGE 8 ALLEY PLAYER[/u] SUPPORTING COVERAGE PLAYER TO FORCE 9 C,B,A PLAYERS[/u] IMMEDIATE PLAYERS SUPPORTING INTERIOR GAPS 10 STUNT/EXCHANGE [/u]POST-SNAP MOVEMENT ALTERING GAP SUPPORT
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easternkycoach
Freshmen Member
Just a squirrel tryin' to get a nut!
Posts: 92
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Post by easternkycoach on Oct 23, 2007 11:12:07 GMT -6
Offensively, I like to run the ball. I feel that other than my QB/RB's fumbling I am in near complete control. This also requires having a consistent (I didn't say dominating) offensive line. I just have to know what each kid can and cannot do. When running the ball I can see everything coming from the D except slants, stunts, and blitzes. I can run away from strong players, and run at the D's weaker players. When we throw, I put the ball in the QB's hands and trust him to make the correct decision in what amounts to a tornado of things that can occur concerning both offensive and defensive personnel and playmaking.
A good run game shortens the game. Run the clock, gives the opponent and yourself fewer possessions to score. Aids if your conditioning, number of players, injury concerns or athletes' abilities are suspect. Quick hitting runs give you more attempts at shorter yardage from scrimmage and keep you from too many 3rd and long situations.
A good run game makes you tougher, it helps through tough times, tough games, short yardage situations, goalline offense and goalline defense.
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Post by tog on Oct 23, 2007 12:33:20 GMT -6
philosophy
offense-adjsut to personnel, have scheme in place that can adapt to the talent on hand, and assumes that there is no talent at all to that end, all the while making sure that there is carryover in all that we do for the OL and to keep the # of blocking schemes down these are the core things of our offense, we feel like these systems allow non athletes to compete and allow good to great athletes compete for championships 1. option 2. air raid 3. wingt/misdirection stuff 4. from spread and multiple formations from the gun to play with all 11
all these things help us on offense, we have all of these types of things in our playbook, we just adapt which style we want more of based on the athletes available
defense-basically the same as on offense-be able to give as many looks front and secondary wise as possible, while keeping the carryover of technique the same
special teams-KISS, this is the place to just be sound more than anything else, get the ball, stop the ball
win
in other words
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Post by dubber on Oct 23, 2007 12:56:53 GMT -6
Here's the way I approach the philosophy question:
1. my goal is to win as much as possible (given for all coaches)
2. what are the areas of a game I need to 'win' in order to win the game-----in other words, if I win the so-and-so battle, then I will mostly likely win the game---nothing in football is an absolute
3. Now that I have a philsophy of how to manage a game, what system gives me the best chance to accomplish my goal
Your answers to number 2 will give you your answers to number 3........
Examples:
Coach A, as an offensive coordinator, believes in controlling T.O.P. and in limiting turnovers.......likely, he will run some type of ball control WCO, under center triple option, or ground and pound style of offense
Coach B, as a defensive coordinator, believes in red zone efficency and limiting big plays (12+ yard runs, 20+ yard passes)........likely, he will run sometype of zone coverage with minimal blitzing (Tampa 2, pattern reading cover 4), making an offense drive on them until they make a mistake or are in the red zone, where, with a constricted field, the windows with which the throw the ball are constricted, allowing safeties to play closer to the L.O.S. for the run. He will probably spend a large amount of time on GL defense (10 and in), and on offensive tendencies in red zone and GL areas.
Currently, I have the following philosophies (remember that today is Tuesday, and these could change by Thursday)
Offensively
*Balance--Have the ability to take what the defense gives *Execution---through simplification of offense and mastery of fundamentals *Limit turnovers
Offenses that interest me:
*Flexbone triple option (gives me the ability to pass well) *Zone Offense (3 or so running plays----1,000,000 formations and motions) *Spread Shotgun Option (definitely take advantage of what is given by the defense)
Defensively
*Limit big plays *Third down efficency *Red Zone efficency *Stop Run
I ran man coverage this year mainly because we played the run better when I did (I think because that got my FS over the TE----extra guy to the strong side), and I blitzed teams that couldn't handle the blitz...........
.........but I prefer Playing deep zone, getting good at getting our run fits, let em' throw short and make them not want to catch it.......and of course, being a better coached team inside the 20
In college we ran a 3-4 that youngstown state (and tressel led ohio state) runs. Very adaptable to whatever offense we faced, based on coverage looked like a 3-4, 4-3, 4-2, 5-2, 5-3, and we didn't learn anything new, we'd flip personnel to field or boundary, and even though we stayed in the same tech.'s (a 5 tech. was always a 5 tech.) it looked different
Something like that
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Post by saintrad on Oct 23, 2007 13:40:23 GMT -6
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Post by wingt74 on Oct 23, 2007 13:44:03 GMT -6
I'm a marketing professional. This is very similar to strategy and tactics.
Essentially - You develop a strategy based on goals and a SWOT analysis.
Your tactics are how you put your strategy in to motion, meet your goals, keeping you strengths and weaknesses in mind.
To me, every philosophy (i.e. strategy) should start out with "To win football games by..."
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Post by djwesp on Oct 23, 2007 14:01:24 GMT -6
People are writing novels. I won't, I'll keep it simple.
1. Make the game as short as possible.
2. Play great special teams.
As crazy as it sounds, doing those two things have been our primary focus and have won us games. By "make the game as short as possible", we mean to keep the clock running AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, and we also mean making the defenses drive the length of the field, eating up as much time as possible. Every time the clock is moving, we feel we are at an advantage (yes even if trailing). Special teams play has been what seals the win in the end of these close games and assures that the defense has to drive a long field. Our 07 campaign our average margin of victory was 4 points, most of our games were decided with us kicking a field goal at the end to win it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2007 14:16:51 GMT -6
I wrote the following and have it posted on the bulletin board above my desk:
Our defense is one that is complex by design, simple by rule, flexible by necessity, and applicable by practice. We believe that in making our defense easy to adjust with, we are able to control how we play the game and can teach our scheme with standing rules to all our levels. Finally, we believe that our scheme's flexibility allows us to align quickly, read with certainty, play fast, rally to the ball, and create turnovers. Finally, our end goal on defense is not to simply stop the opponent, but to score on defense.
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Post by brophy on Oct 23, 2007 14:21:21 GMT -6
People are writing novels. I won't, I'll keep it simple. probably because this is a coaching board. You don't go to a clinic on Triangle Mesh from Hal Mumme, just to hear him say, "Yeah, we just lob it up there..."the point is to contribute something to stimulate dialogue we can all learn from
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Post by eickst on Oct 23, 2007 14:23:57 GMT -6
Smashmouth offense
Attacking defense
Simple enough?
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Post by djwesp on Oct 23, 2007 14:26:39 GMT -6
People are writing novels. I won't, I'll keep it simple. probably because this is a coaching board. You don't go to a clinic on Triangle Mesh from Hal Mumme, just to hear him say, "Yeah, we just lob it up there..."Probably because the triangle mesh is complex. In order for a philosophical idea to work it must be easily conveyed. Coaches aren't walking around quoting Socrates. If you'll even note, the said coach is trying to avoid the "x's and o's" and get down straight to the basic principle of what you are trying to accomplish.
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Post by brophy on Oct 23, 2007 14:36:22 GMT -6
I hear ya.....but "Be more physical than our opponent" philosophy can convey a belief to YOU and be totally different to ME. It is a general idea, but there is nothing to clearly communicate that belief in practice philosophy
Win the game
Win the game + be physical
win the game + be physical + double tight offense
win the game + be physical + double tight offense + run triple option
win the game + be physical + double tight offense + run triple option + play-action passing = philosophy
WIN THE GAME ......which is why we all run different things, because we all believe in a philosophy of acheiving that end result.
Idea (concept) + rationale = Philosophy
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Post by coachmoore42 on Oct 23, 2007 14:47:06 GMT -6
Defensively:
1) Know and excel at your specific job. If everyone does his own job, then we should be successful. 2) Run to the football. Once all things have been covered. We want to have as many defenders as possible punishing the ballcarrier on each play. 3) Play with enthusiasm and a high energy level.
Offensively:
1) Don't commit turnovers. 2) Be great blockers. Only one guy can carry the ball on each play. 3) Control the tempo. Make the defense play at our pace.
and last but definitely not least...
Special Teams:
1) Don't give up the big play. Especially muffing a punt return. 2) Create the big play. Especially a blocked punt.
Special Teams win or lose the game, if everything else is sound.
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Post by djwesp on Oct 23, 2007 14:51:06 GMT -6
win the game + be physical + double tight offense + run triple option There is your problem right there. Everyone knows you can't win with that stuff anymore! ;D Run the ball (to keep the clock moving) + play conservative defense (we don't blitz much, play a lot of gc, and try not to play out of position (as backers)) + having a good kicker + working considerable time on kick coverage and pat's (especially lanes/ time fillers on pat's, etc) = keeping it close enough for us to have a chance at the end. I bet if we added the triangle mesh and the 4-2-5 we'd be unstoppable.
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Post by 7384729737 on Oct 23, 2007 15:05:09 GMT -6
This is exactly the type of feedback I was looking for. Brophy, your posts are great. I guess I need more actual coaching experience to come up with a definite philosophy. It is hard to find what is important to me when it comes to achieving the victory. But so far:
On offense I know I want to be flexible, I hate hearing, "We are a smash mouth football team no matter what." How do you run power effectively all year with an undersized line and a scat back? As far as running a ball control or wide open offense I don't know yet. One thing I like is quick hitting run plays (at the high school level), unless I have a huge line consistently I don't like running plays that take a little bit longer to develop. So I guess I'll never be big on the zone. I'm also not big on doing what everyone else is doing, so that will probably leave the gun spread out because 99.9% of high school teams will be doing it when I get up to the ranks.
When it comes to passing I think I'm a concept guy. During high school my coach used the passing tree with our I formation and it would just be random passes put together at random times. The year I left they went to the spread and have made it to the state championship both years and won it last year, they also run concept routes now.
On defense I know I believe in an attacking D. I hate to watch teams just sit back, especially late in the game. I would rather dictate what they do then vice versa.
It's not much and I have a lot to learn.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2007 15:52:01 GMT -6
On offense, I like to establish about 5-6 runs and 3-4 passes that are the "base" of the system. We must be able to execute these concepts, though, out of multiple formations--I, Power I, Trips, and 2 x 2. The number one priority on offense is ball control with the ability to hit a "home run".
On Defense, I don't like to blitz a whole lot, but if we are at a talent disadvantage, we must make something happen. I like 4-4 cover 3 as a base, but like on O, must be flexible.
On specials, tog said it best--KISS.
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Post by phantom on Oct 23, 2007 18:44:31 GMT -6
Defensively, we believe in multiplicity with simplicity, aggressiveness with as little risk as possible, and speed.
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Post by dubber on Oct 23, 2007 18:49:41 GMT -6
I bet if we added the triangle mesh and the 4-2-5 we'd be unstoppable. what?
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Post by dubber on Oct 23, 2007 18:57:41 GMT -6
This is exactly the type of feedback I was looking for. Brophy, your posts are great. I guess I need more actual coaching experience to come up with a definite philosophy. It is hard to find what is important to me when it comes to achieving the victory. But so far: On offense I know I want to be flexible, I hate hearing, "We are a smash mouth football team no matter what." How do you run power effectively all year with an undersized line and a scat back? As far as running a ball control or wide open offense I don't know yet. One thing I like is quick hitting run plays (at the high school level), unless I have a huge line consistently I don't like running plays that take a little bit longer to develop. So I guess I'll never be big on the zone. I'm also not big on doing what everyone else is doing, so that will probably leave the gun spread out because 99.9% of high school teams will be doing it when I get up to the ranks. When it comes to passing I think I'm a concept guy. During high school my coach used the passing tree with our I formation and it would just be random passes put together at random times. The year I left they went to the spread and have made it to the state championship both years and won it last year, they also run concept routes now. On defense I know I believe in an attacking D. I hate to watch teams just sit back, especially late in the game. I would rather dictate what they do then vice versa. It's not much and I have a lot to learn. I learn a lot by looking at the stats of winning and losing teams (if you are evaluating a system, look at a complete season, when that team loses, find out what stat was lower than normal----ex. Navy fumbled 3 times in this game that they lost when they had been +11 throughout the season-----obviously Navy's success is tied to turnover ratio, perhaps less untrue of a Texas Tech------these are all hypotheticals BTW) You start to notice winning and certain statistics go hand-in-hand (turnovers, for instance).....those things you want to make a mainstay of your offense not 100%, but there is definitely a causual factor in certain stats
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Post by dubber on Oct 23, 2007 18:59:06 GMT -6
Saintrad is really the one who got me thinking this way-----really is a good way to approach football IMO
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Post by carookie on Oct 23, 2007 20:07:35 GMT -6
Dubber, It seems that you have taken an analutical aproach to statistics and which ones equate to wins (the whole moneyball in baseball system). I've often thought of that but always get thrown off by a couple things.
1- No viable stat for offensive line play; if time allowed to pass was one maybe but even that gets murky. 2- Who gets credit for the stat: I think football success/stats are more reliant on team success (did that 20 yard carry come from exceptional skill or a great block) than other sports. 3- The 'ol cart before the horse: they say teams that run the ball more win, well duh if you are up 30 points you are gonna run the rest of the game, even if you got there by passing.
That being written I'd really like to see what stats you have found most equate to W's, I think it would be a helpful piece of knowledge. Plus I'd like to see if what I think is important matches up.
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Post by wildcat on Oct 23, 2007 21:39:19 GMT -6
Offensive Philosophy: - Utilize offensive formations that are unique compared to the other teams in the conference
- Develop different ways to get the football to our top players
- Avoid "3 & Out"
- Don't turn the football over
- Big-time players make big-time plays
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Post by saintrad on Oct 23, 2007 22:45:21 GMT -6
my philospohy is simple: control the clock and score
this applies to offense, defense, and special teams.
the HOW (or method) I plan on doing these are simple to us but complex the opponent.
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Post by dubber on Oct 23, 2007 23:48:19 GMT -6
Dubber, It seems that you have taken an analutical aproach to statistics and which ones equate to wins (the whole moneyball in baseball system). I've often thought of that but always get thrown off by a couple things. 1- No viable stat for offensive line play; if time allowed to pass was one maybe but even that gets murky. 2- Who gets credit for the stat: I think football success/stats are more reliant on team success (did that 20 yard carry come from exceptional skill or a great block) than other sports. 3- The 'ol cart before the horse: they say teams that run the ball more win, well duh if you are up 30 points you are gonna run the rest of the game, even if you got there by passing. That being written I'd really like to see what stats you have found most equate to W's, I think it would be a helpful piece of knowledge. Plus I'd like to see if what I think is important matches up. yes, I certainly did not mean to equate certain statistics to always winning. Stats can come from different situations/variables, and some (like those situations you mentioned) leave the stat moot. to try to answer some of your very good questions: 1-true, though the success of a play is almost always tied to the question: Did the OL block well? If a RB rips off 275 yards, we are not going to assume the DL dominated that game. Perhaps the best answer to this question is something you do in addition to look at statistics----watch the game 2-yes, it is team success, but I don't think that matters. I mean if your philosophy is to control the ball, and you see a triple option team do that, it doesn't really matter that the FB and OL are doing all the "work" so to speak----what matters is triple option is a viable option (no pun) to achieve one of your philosophical goals I hope I didn't misunderstand this objection 3-yes, outliers must be accounted for.......for example the Run and Shoot is known to put up big passing yards as well as rushing yards. It would seem, from that statistic, that whenever you want control the clock (like at the end of a game), Run and Shoot, with it's ability to run the football is a good choice. Not so. The runs of the shoot are like the PAPs of a power running team-----they catch the other team off guard, caught in a nickel package or something---further, they are usually explosive plays that pad the average..........3 yards and a cloud it is not Da Shoot is a great offense, but if controlling the T.O.P. is part of your philosophy it is not your answer. Understanding what statistics are is as important as knowing them. Great point Now, for the thousands of coaches I am sure are dying to know what I think ;D lol 1. Turnover battle. I think you should win it. That being said, I offer a few caveats a. Running a defense absolutely predicated on takeaways is a bad idea------who cares if you get 3 turnovers if you cannot stop them from scoring TD's the other 8 times they have the ball b. This is relative to the offense you run. Every coach wants zero, but in reality it is relative to the risk your offense takes. Air Raid turns it over twice, it is less of a big deal than if a DW turns it over twice. IMO, a throwing team can be -1 in the turnover department (say 2 to 1) and still have "won the turnover battle", because that risk is inherent in their offense--------you still expect a two turnover Air Raid team to score 42 points 2. Red Zone Battle keep them out of the endzone, and find a way to get in it. Moving the ball between the 20's is pretty easy really. Finding a way to stick it in is the crucial part. Defensively, if you make them kick field goals on 4 offensive possessions, and your offense scores 2 TDs on 4 possessions, you are ahead 14-12 3. Third Down this is tied to another idea: get/keep the defense off the field. Offense moves the chains, the defense gets another 3-5 minutes of rest (actual time, not game time). They get off the field, you get the ball back. Even if you are not a platoon squad, it is always better to have the ball in your hands. I'm not as big into T.O.P. as other guys are, but if you got the ball they can't score, and the more times you have the ball, the better your odds of a successful drive, this is also linked to field position Those are probably my big three, and if you can do those all 3 of those things, I think you will win...........if you win those three, and happen to lose, it is probably because you were outmanned. The other team was throwing fades into the endzone on first down, returning punts for TD's, etc. jmo, and i'm sure there are better ones out there
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Post by joelee on Oct 24, 2007 5:59:00 GMT -6
Offense-put the defense in conflict. Run/pass, right/left, inside/out, horizontal/vertical. Defense-attack the offense. Take away 3 best things they do.
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Post by coachcalande on Oct 24, 2007 6:18:41 GMT -6
Offensive philosophy
Move the football- take the football, play keep away until we score. I prefer to feature a punishing running game and play action pass attack- series football - my offense relies on the use of angles and double teams, accurate play calling and numbers advantages to accomplish this since I rarely have the fast kid to get it to out in space. sometimes a hammer is the only tool a guy needs however I do see an offense as a tool box. Do I have a bigger hammer? Maybe I need a chain saw? I typically want to control not only the ball, but the clock as well. I believe that a team with lesser athletes is wise to control both. Keep things simple enough that our execution never suffers. Be only as multiple as we need to be. Use the talent wisely. Its not how many plays or how much talent we have but instead its the plays we use to feature the talent we do have. Teams that do too much suffer penalties and miscues that kill their own team. Simply put, make the other guys beat us.
Same goes for defense, make the other guys out coach us, out execute us. Keep the alignment and assignments simple enough that we dont make mental errors that lead to quick scores. Shed, pursue and tackle well. Gang tackle and always try to create miscues and errors. Defense is also a tool box, be only as multiple as need be because too much thinking robs a player of aggressiveness and instinct. simply put, get the ball back as quick as possible. "Hang loose, one of us is fixin to score" can also be applied to defense.
LET ME ADD THIS, WHEN DESIGNING PLAYS, ALIGNMENTS, ASSIGNMENT, SCHEMES, ADJUSTMENTS, RULES ETC, I ALWAYS KEEP IN CONSIDERATION THAT IM DEALING WITH HIGH SCHOOL KIDS OR YOUTH PLAYERS. NOBODY IS RECRUITING, TRADING FOR OR DRAFTING TALENT. JUST WHAT AM I ASKING MY PLAYERS TO DO? THIS IS A BIG CONSIDERATION. ITS ALSO VERY IMPORTANT TO STAY CLEAR OF THE TRAP THAT "IF THE PROS DO IT..." OR "IF NOTRE DAME USES IT" THINKING. HOW MUCH PRACTICE TIME DO WE HAVE? THATS ANOTHER CONSIDERATION THAT EFFECTS PHILOSOPHY.
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Post by brophy on Oct 24, 2007 6:25:13 GMT -6
I see a lot of X's and O's on the board and I see a lot of talk about philosophy but I don't see much of, "When it comes to football my offensive/defensive philosophy is." I just got finished reading a little on offensive philosophies and would really like to find mine. I have spent so much time reading X's and O's and technique that I've never really sat down and thought about this. if you are a young coach and looking for an "identity" on offense (or understand defense better), one of the best resources out there right now is the current version of Ted Seay's "Wild Bunch" playbook. It is everything a playbook should be....the X's & O's with rationale, explanations, application scenarios.....how to install....etc see if you can find it in the download sections
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 164
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Post by tedseay on Oct 24, 2007 10:32:55 GMT -6
if you are a young coach and looking for an "identity" on offense (or understand defense better), one of the best resources out there right now is the current version of Ted Seay's "Wild Bunch" playbook. It is everything a playbook should be....the X's & O's with rationale, explanations, application scenarios.....how to install....etc see if you can find it in the download sections DANG, brophy! I'm in pain from patting myself on the back so hard... ;D ;D Download link here: savefile.com/files/19173
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