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Post by nltdiego on Jun 19, 2014 21:15:03 GMT -6
So we have kids miss summer for summer school and vacation. We stress the importance of attendance BUT we can't say it is mandatory. We have 75% of our kids who don't miss much but another 25% who miss due to vacation or summer school. This is a problem at lower level but time they get to Varsity it is not a huge problem.
Few questions for you coaches:
1. Is your summer mandatory?
2. Does a successful summer lead to a successful fall?
3. Do your parents understand the correlation between summer and fall?
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Post by groundchuck on Jun 19, 2014 21:37:40 GMT -6
So we have kids miss summer for summer school and vacation. We stress the importance of attendance BUT we can't say it is mandatory. We have 75% of our kids who don't miss much but another 25% who miss due to vacation or summer school. This is a problem at lower level but time they get to Varsity it is not a huge problem. Few questions for you coaches: 1. Is your summer mandatory? 2. Does a successful summer lead to a successful fall? 3. Do your parents understand the correlation between summer and fall? No. Can't word it that way. A great summer is going to no doubt help. A crappy one is going ton hurt. Some. |
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Post by Underdeveloped on Jun 19, 2014 21:42:29 GMT -6
I feel like in my early years I stressed over kids missing way too much. I think summer is good to build togetherness. As a coach you find your true leaders and the kids you can count on. Kids who miss are typically younger players who don't know what it takes yet. If you have seniors missing you probably have a class without leaders and that can be a problem.
I tell our kids this
"I give you the summer calendar in January or Feb so that you can plan vacation around it. If you are at a church camp or on a FAMILY vacation I don't care if you miss time. If you are asleep or playing video games or up partying, then we have a problem!"
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Post by jsk002 on Jun 20, 2014 6:29:05 GMT -6
So we have kids miss summer for summer school and vacation. We stress the importance of attendance BUT we can't say it is mandatory. We have 75% of our kids who don't miss much but another 25% who miss due to vacation or summer school. This is a problem at lower level but time they get to Varsity it is not a huge problem. Few questions for you coaches: 1. Is your summer mandatory? 2. Does a successful summer lead to a successful fall? 3. Do your parents understand the correlation between summer and fall? 1. We don't use the term mandatory - but we also don't use the term optional. As a program we've gotten to the point where the kids see the correlation between hard work in the off-season and success on the football field. We talk a lot about why off-season participation is important to our goals. We don't stress if a kid is on vacation with his family, or misses a workout, practice or 7 on 7 for another personal reason. We do expect our athletes to notify us if they will miss. We don't like when kids just blow us off - but we handle that on a case by case basis. 2. Yes 3. Yes |
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Post by indian1 on Jun 20, 2014 6:35:50 GMT -6
What are your guys doing the rest of the year? Summer is only 2 months.
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Post by holmesbend on Jun 20, 2014 7:20:39 GMT -6
June? No.
Last couple weeks in July. Yes.
Personally, I'm just one of these that...it boils down to 'you can' or 'you can't'. Haves and the have nots. June isn't going to fix that.
The way I look at it is this; colleges...even the D1 schools send their kids home for the month of May (granted, they are back for workouts and summer school in June/July). Smaller divisions have their players who still go home for the summer and just HOPE that they work out on their own (which moost do and those that dont, don't).
Lastly. I need a break from them, and some down time...I KNOW the kids need the same.
With that said, we have had the best summer we've had in 7 years. Just going twice a week in June and we've had 34-40 there every night (rural school of about 350 boys, and not counting the 10-12 involved with baseball and basketball on those nights).
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Post by joker31 on Jun 20, 2014 10:52:14 GMT -6
After making a trip down earlier this year and working out with one of the best teams in America, we've changed our summer program completely.
We can not lift weights right now at the school because of a teacher strike going on in our area, so we've brought all the bars, weights, and other equipment we've purchased to our locker room and will be doing our workouts outside. With the addition of very difficult agilities/running, it will be our most difficult off-season we've ever done. We've only started our workouts this week, and at both sessions there have been 40+ players.
That said, we're only doing it 2 days per week for 2 hours per day. We'll go hard as hell for those 4 hours total, but they need time with friends and family too.
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Post by freezeoption on Jun 20, 2014 12:02:26 GMT -6
we started summer weights the week after school got out in may, go m-th, avg 17 players, mostly young kids, I don't require it, but when they get 20 workouts in they will get the stripe on their helmet, I have 3 senior boys who have not been in, they will be surprised how out of shape they will be and hurting if they don't come in till the season, I bet they think they are going to start just because they are seniors, but they will be too busy puking, i'm not stressing on it, I will have enough young kids to take their place, we are a 8 man school,
we have had a camp in june, two showed up for two days and then they were gone, they will have a surprise when on the last day of the july camp I will let the ones that have been there pick their game jersey number, if a kid is actually working then I understand, but we go from 6-8 am, I think they can make time to come in 20 days throughout the whole summer,
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Post by coach2013 on Jun 20, 2014 12:09:25 GMT -6
Like most people- we have some key guys that miss. They are basically lazy and unmotivated have excuses such as "work." They simply do not care.
Fact- even if they do not show up and lift- they are stronger, bigger, faster than many of the guys that we have. Big fish- small pond.
Fact- the kids who come still expect to see our big kids who don't come play. They know these guys give us a chance to win games.
Fact- we celebrate the heck out of the progress the guys that do show up make- they can out squat and out deadlift (but cant outbench) the no show "stars."
Fact- we train four days a week and the greater majority of kids are on board BUT the greater majority also don't make every workout. They may make MOST of the workouts but not all.
To answer the question- when a program gets its best people on board and those guys get better and everyone else is also getting better- then the magic happens.
We have already improved by leaps and bounds and we expect to make big strides again this year but I know where we are - we aren't there yet.
We will play these kids who aren't coming - most likely they will start on defense and spot play on offense. I need them on defense just to stay in games. I don't need them offense and can use the "keeping you fresh, you aren't strong enough to play every down" message that I plan to use. Guys who are in shape can carry the ball 20 times a game and play defense for us.
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Post by coachorm on Jun 20, 2014 12:13:06 GMT -6
1. Summer is not mandatory for us but we do require that: A. players call when they will miss a day and let us know why. B. if you miss you have make-up running the next practice you are at. NOT punishment running. Just a little extra to make-up for what you missed.
2. I think there is a correlation between summer workouts and fall success but I don't believe it is as strong as some coaches believe. A kid can make big gains in the summer but he isn't missing a ton of technique and teaching time, more just missing the weights and conditioning.
3. Yes I believe most of our parents understand the importance of summer workouts but we still have those parents that are not willing to put forth the effort to get their kid there everyday or make him get up and go.
On a side note we started a new attendance policy this year. Only players that achieve 95% or above attendance can be captains. This includes all workouts from December through August. This attendance is also used to determine who gets equipment first when its is passed out and who is first for pre-game meals. We make sure they know who is missing too. All names are put on the whiteboard in the locker room and you are listed under your attendance category.... Champions 95% and above, Players 85%-94%, Contributors 75%-84%, Rookies - 74% and below. We also understand there may be required misses like funerals, vacations, flu, etc. So we have some built in extra days where they can attend and help out with the summer youth camp or other activities to make up for 2-3 days.
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Post by spreadpowero on Jun 20, 2014 13:02:00 GMT -6
Absolutely! Those that take the time to invest in the program are more willing to do whatever is necessary to be successful in the fall. Those that don't put the time in to prepare, won't give a rat's a$$ when the going gets tough and when adversity is in the air.
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Post by freezeoption on Jun 20, 2014 14:40:16 GMT -6
i'm not saying I am not going to play those guys, they will probably play, but like you said they will be limited, one had said he wanted to play running back, that probably will not happen, if they can contribute I will use them, but sometimes seniors think they are owed something, the school that we cooped with always had low numbers, so kids knew they were going to play without having to give much effort, we will have enough that there will be some competition, what I really like is my younger guys have been coming in and working hard, I have some with 16 lifts already
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Post by jg78 on Jun 20, 2014 16:32:25 GMT -6
1. Yes.
2. I would say a "more successful" fall. If you have 2-8 talent that works hard and makes all the sacrifices and wins a couple of games they shouldn't and finishes 4-6, is that successful or unsuccessful? If a team with 9-1 talent slacks off all summer and finishes 7-3, is that successful or unsuccessful?
3. To an extent.
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Post by dubber on Jun 20, 2014 16:52:21 GMT -6
Workouts aren't mandatory, and neither is your playing time.
Forget where I stole that.
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Post by jg78 on Jun 20, 2014 16:54:46 GMT -6
Workouts aren't mandatory, and neither is your playing time. Forget where I stole that. I like that a lot. |
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Post by fantom on Jun 20, 2014 16:57:25 GMT -6
So we have kids miss summer for summer school and vacation. We stress the importance of attendance BUT we can't say it is mandatory. We have 75% of our kids who don't miss much but another 25% who miss due to vacation or summer school. This is a problem at lower level but time they get to Varsity it is not a huge problem. Few questions for you coaches: 1. Is your summer mandatory? 2. Does a successful summer lead to a successful fall? 3. Do your parents understand the correlation between summer and fall? We can't make it mandatory. We call it voluntarily mandatory. The guys who we expect are there and if they can't make it- which happens over the course of a summer- we mostly know where they are. I think this is because we, the coaches, are there. Unless we have a reason, the coaches are there and we're working: observing, instructing, motivating. I think we're in a good place right now. The kids understand that they're not here to compete for a starting job, they're trying to beat the other guys. It doesn't happen overnight. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 20, 2014 17:05:34 GMT -6
The kids understand that they're not here to compete for a starting job, they're trying to beat the other guys. It doesn't happen overnight. THIS...right here, is the key to all offseason (and franklin, inseason, practice reps etc.) work. |
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Post by coachdawhip on Jun 20, 2014 17:42:31 GMT -6
It's the teaching that gets done in the summer. The timing. You give your opponents a head start if you can't be found in June and really in July.
We talk 2 much about winning games. Some of us are already losing them
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 20, 2014 18:04:34 GMT -6
It's the teaching that gets done in the summer. The timing. You give your opponents a head start if you can't be found in June and really in July. We talk 2 much about winning games. Some of us are already losing them Coach-- you have to keep in mind that the rules regarding summer work is varied across the country. For some places, "teaching" isn't allowed, just weights, and running. |
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Post by coachdawhip on Jun 20, 2014 18:10:18 GMT -6
It's the teaching that gets done in the summer. The timing. You give your opponents a head start if you can't be found in June and really in July. We talk 2 much about winning games. Some of us are already losing them Coach-- you have to keep in mind that the rules regarding summer work is varied across the country. For some places, "teaching" isn't allowed, just weights, and running. True but if teaching is u are behind. If just weights and u do none u are behind! |
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mhs99
Junior Member
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Post by mhs99 on Jun 20, 2014 18:36:22 GMT -6
I think there is a MUCH bigger correlation between the amount of work that is done in the winter to success in the fall. We see kids put huge strength gains on in the winter as distractions (vacations, summer baseball, summer basketball, beaching it/bikinis) are far less than in the summer. The summer, i am in Mass. school just getting out now, FB starts in late August,to me is a time to continue to build strength and power in late June early July, but then focus more on core, flexibility and conditioning as the summer concludes. 7 v 7 is now a part of summer workouts as well.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 20, 2014 19:03:37 GMT -6
mhs99 that is a good point. For some (here in South Louisiana, we are out around May 23rd and Start school around Aug. 7) "summer" relative to football starting is almost 3 weeks longer than others.
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Post by fantom on Jun 20, 2014 19:45:40 GMT -6
It's the teaching that gets done in the summer. The timing. You give your opponents a head start if you can't be found in June and really in July. We talk 2 much about winning games. Some of us are already losing them You know, this game's not that complicated. |
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Post by s73 on Jun 20, 2014 19:54:33 GMT -6
Yes, if your summer program is worthwhile.
The old saying about games are won in the off season is actually only partially true IMO. It really should be games are won in a well planned and well designed off season.
If you carefully plan your off season / summer etc. then it should be a large piece to your success puzzle. If it's a good plan and kids aren't their then, yes it should hurt you. Again, JMO.
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Post by falcon44 on Jun 20, 2014 20:37:38 GMT -6
Mandatory is a word that can not be used. We go 3 days a week in the summer and during that time I give them a total of about 2 weeks off (4th of July week and the week before Pads).
We open our Weight room at 4 pm on those days and we start practice at 6PM (in line for Cals at 5:50).
We are an inner city program where our kids need to work and others are playing (I hate it) Summer Basketball until July.
I became fed up with excuses so starting this past week I told our kids we are starting a point system. If a player attends the weightroom He will receive say a total of 10 points(if he comes late ,I leave it up to the Strength Coach to designate his points ),if the player misses a portion or does not work to the Coaches liking he may only get 2 points. Each player also receives 10 points for attending the practice. So this past week a player had the opportunity to earn 60 total points.
SO for our Varsity /jv guys (This also goes for our Junior High Team)the player with the most points gets to pick his number first , the 2nd picks next and so on. I do not care if its a Sophmore or a Senior. The same happens with our Equipment. We have 8 new helmets and shoulder pads,so if a soph backup ends up wearing a new Speed helmet and a Senior starter wears an old helmet, TOUGH!!!
What has this done? One Junior QUIT (So long) but we normally might get 5-8 in the weightroom and since we instituted this we had 21 and 25 respectively on Wed and Thurs. Our Practice numbers are lower this year but the Core is much more committed and I will take that any day.
You will also get a lot of guys saying they cant make it because of work and Camp or a thousand other reasons. My response..."Im sorry ,I cant make an exception".
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Post by coach2013 on Jun 21, 2014 3:32:40 GMT -6
I don't know about the rest of you guys but-
we lift all season and we get stronger through the season- this is particularly important in forcing your awol guys to lift and get bigger, stronger an faster- teaching them how and why. After they get comfortable with the lifting and having to do it in front of others (often those stars are hiding their inadequacies) they will buy in and do it. You do have to stay on them or they will run off to the locker room to play with their cell phones.
We also lift all year- we cant force people to do it- we have conflict with ignorant coaches who are stuck in 1960s thinking about lifting but we talk to the kids directly and educate them. We make sure we have coaches that lift and can lead by example and that helps. we reward the heck out of attendance, achievement and improvement, you have to reward all three of those things.
our rewards are:
tee shirts
helmet stickers
trophies
gear choice
captain status
we never ever talk about consequences of missing weights other than letting your teammates down, underachieving as a player and as a team and perhaps being beaten out by someone else on the roster impacting your playing time. we choose carefully when to speak about those that are absent knowing that kids talk and itll get around.
we publicize testing for weights and speed and agility. we get the buzz going in the building with bulliten and white board posts. we use the morning announcements (and that gets teachers and admins to know whats going on and they can say stuff to the kids) and we use websites to publicize our testing.
we have "top 10" boards and those that may be stellar athletes but not lifting are missing from the board. younger kids are in their place.
Heres where we say "summer" lifting matters as well- we do our liftathon fundraising then. if you aren't there you don't get the same stuff that the participants get.
I have parents call me because I send out a handbook. It really lays out our whole program and the parents want permission from me to take their kids out of town or have them miss for eagle scout week or whatever. they know what is expected. the parents and kids who don't care and don't buy in much- basically never will.
I am always looking to replace those guys. A wise coach once said "don't prostitute your whole program for one or two more wins" - that's where the real thinking comes in. When you must play these guys to win, play them. When you can replace them do it as soon as possible. Ie you are up by three scores, play a younger kid. When you are behind by three scores, play a younger kid or more deserving kid. "starting" doesn't mean "finishing" when you aren't on board. youll get fewer raised eye brows from admin and parents and your own kids if you start the "best" kids. Youll get better buy in with throwing hard workers a bone as soon as you can. "coach, I got a helmet sticker today!"
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Post by blb on Jun 21, 2014 6:45:06 GMT -6
A "successful summer" is an indicator of what kind of season you may have.
If you have very good attendance and effort, you probably have a group that believes they can win and so is dedicated-committed. That, as 2013 says, is when "the magic happens."
If your attendance is spotty or not very good, it's either because your kids think they're already good enough - which usually means satisfied to know they'll probably start - and don't need to put in the work, or they don't think they can win (based on previous experience), so why bother?
In those two scenarios, you can always hope you can find enough teams worse than you to have a winning season.
Point is, it's not something you can make happen. We are at the mercy of the whims of 14-18 year old kids. |
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Post by s73 on Jun 21, 2014 7:16:49 GMT -6
I don't know about the rest of you guys but- we lift all season and we get stronger through the season- this is particularly important in forcing your awol guys to lift and get bigger, stronger an faster- teaching them how and why. After they get comfortable with the lifting and having to do it in front of others (often those stars are hiding their inadequacies) they will buy in and do it. You do have to stay on them or they will run off to the locker room to play with their cell phones. We also lift all year- we cant force people to do it- we have conflict with ignorant coaches who are stuck in 1960s thinking about lifting but we talk to the kids directly and educate them. We make sure we have coaches that lift and can lead by example and that helps. we reward the heck out of attendance, achievement and improvement, you have to reward all three of those things. our rewards are: tee shirts helmet stickers trophies gear choice captain status we never ever talk about consequences of missing weights other than letting your teammates down, underachieving as a player and as a team and perhaps being beaten out by someone else on the roster impacting your playing time. we choose carefully when to speak about those that are absent knowing that kids talk and itll get around. we publicize testing for weights and speed and agility. we get the buzz going in the building with bulliten and white board posts. we use the morning announcements (and that gets teachers and admins to know whats going on and they can say stuff to the kids) and we use websites to publicize our testing. we have "top 10" boards and those that may be stellar athletes but not lifting are missing from the board. younger kids are in their place. Heres where we say "summer" lifting matters as well- we do our liftathon fundraising then. if you aren't there you don't get the same stuff that the participants get. I have parents call me because I send out a handbook. It really lays out our whole program and the parents want permission from me to take their kids out of town or have them miss for eagle scout week or whatever. they know what is expected. the parents and kids who don't care and don't buy in much- basically never will. I am always looking to replace those guys. A wise coach once said "don't prostitute your whole program for one or two more wins" - that's where the real thinking comes in. When you must play these guys to win, play them. When you can replace them do it as soon as possible. Ie you are up by three scores, play a younger kid. When you are behind by three scores, play a younger kid or more deserving kid. "starting" doesn't mean "finishing" when you aren't on board. youll get fewer raised eye brows from admin and parents and your own kids if you start the "best" kids. Youll get better buy in with throwing hard workers a bone as soon as you can. "coach, I got a helmet sticker today!" You make a great point about guys "getting comfortable" w/ lifting in front of others. For whatever reason, through out my career the basketball kids are the WORST about lifting. It's like pulling teeth. As a result, after they finished this past season of bball and begrudgingly showed up to Spring weights, I pulled several of them aside and addressed the fact that they will not fix the problem of weakness by avoiding lifting. If your weak the others probably already know it. So start at square 1 and make some progress. This seemed to take them from horrible in the weight room to about a C -/ D +. Progress I guess. At least they know that I know they aren't committing like they are expected to. That's good for my own piece of mind anyway. |
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Post by coachdawhip on Jun 21, 2014 8:46:33 GMT -6
It's the teaching that gets done in the summer. The timing. You give your opponents a head start if you can't be found in June and really in July. We talk 2 much about winning games. Some of us are already losing them You know, this game's not that complicated. Hmmmm. I am a mathematician by trade, aka a Math teacher a good 1. 82% of my kids scored a 70 or higher on the EOCT. But I STILL READ and refine my craft in the summer reading 2 books now, because I am a perfectionist, I want 100% to pass. Much like the more you do things they become second nature. When you have kids who have not played on a certain level practice is important. We aren't all blessed with state championship talent year in and year out, like u  . When you practice something and learn the details you develop trust. My son needs to be be bathroom trained, I sure hope his school isn't taking the summer off. No body says, we are trying to install the world's new 6sc or s6 level offense or defense. But kids have to be taught. So how do you move an average team to the next level by keeping things simple and teaching. Because when practice starts and u have 3 weeks to Game 1, that is not enough time. And now winning a state championship isn't the be all end all, I just want my kids to experience success enough so, when the 1st Wednesday in Feb comes, we can continue to have at least 5 kids on stage. Teaching them in the summer makes that easier, IMO.
Unless, I can come work on your staff and make the same amount that I am making now. Then I will gladly take off the whole summer.  |
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Post by coach2013 on Jun 21, 2014 8:57:30 GMT -6
I don't know about the rest of you guys but- we lift all season and we get stronger through the season- this is particularly important in forcing your awol guys to lift and get bigger, stronger an faster- teaching them how and why. After they get comfortable with the lifting and having to do it in front of others (often those stars are hiding their inadequacies) they will buy in and do it. You do have to stay on them or they will run off to the locker room to play with their cell phones. We also lift all year- we cant force people to do it- we have conflict with ignorant coaches who are stuck in 1960s thinking about lifting but we talk to the kids directly and educate them. We make sure we have coaches that lift and can lead by example and that helps. we reward the heck out of attendance, achievement and improvement, you have to reward all three of those things. our rewards are: tee shirts helmet stickers trophies gear choice captain status we never ever talk about consequences of missing weights other than letting your teammates down, underachieving as a player and as a team and perhaps being beaten out by someone else on the roster impacting your playing time. we choose carefully when to speak about those that are absent knowing that kids talk and itll get around. we publicize testing for weights and speed and agility. we get the buzz going in the building with bulliten and white board posts. we use the morning announcements (and that gets teachers and admins to know whats going on and they can say stuff to the kids) and we use websites to publicize our testing. we have "top 10" boards and those that may be stellar athletes but not lifting are missing from the board. younger kids are in their place. Heres where we say "summer" lifting matters as well- we do our liftathon fundraising then. if you aren't there you don't get the same stuff that the participants get. I have parents call me because I send out a handbook. It really lays out our whole program and the parents want permission from me to take their kids out of town or have them miss for eagle scout week or whatever. they know what is expected. the parents and kids who don't care and don't buy in much- basically never will. I am always looking to replace those guys. A wise coach once said "don't prostitute your whole program for one or two more wins" - that's where the real thinking comes in. When you must play these guys to win, play them. When you can replace them do it as soon as possible. Ie you are up by three scores, play a younger kid. When you are behind by three scores, play a younger kid or more deserving kid. "starting" doesn't mean "finishing" when you aren't on board. youll get fewer raised eye brows from admin and parents and your own kids if you start the "best" kids. Youll get better buy in with throwing hard workers a bone as soon as you can. "coach, I got a helmet sticker today!" You make a great point about guys "getting comfortable" w/ lifting in front of others. For whatever reason, through out my career the basketball kids are the WORST about lifting. It's like pulling teeth. As a result, after they finished this past season of bball and begrudgingly showed up to Spring weights, I pulled several of them aside and addressed the fact that they will not fix the problem of weakness by avoiding lifting. If your weak the others probably already know it. So start at square 1 and make some progress. This seemed to take them from horrible in the weight room to about a C -/ D +. Progress I guess. At least they know that I know they aren't committing like they are expected to. That's good for my own piece of mind anyway. Like you, our basketball kids avoid weights and sadly, the lifting they do during basketball is next to useless.
I have a couple of decently athletic kids and they aren't awful football players that avoid weights. one is around a 900 lb club kid naturally, hes that strong. He cant deadlift because hes never done it and hes a lousy squatter too but has strong legs. The other kid is much lighter, a good football player but weak. I mean hes good because he has a high football IQ, works hard in practice and is a competitor in games and he doesn't fear contact. Hed be much better if he wasn't a 600 lb club kid.
I took the 600lb club kid aside and had a chat with him. I told him that hes a very talented football player, tackles well and has good run skills, best on the team. Then I pointed out that hes never finished a season in any sport in high school because he always gets hurt. I told him that I could only use him on offense if he got bigger, stronger and faster and he had to lift with us to do that. I was blunt , "if you do what I tell you, you will start" and I did that because he plays the same position as the other kid who never does what we ask him to do and is generally clueless about our program. Sadly, he will get some looks just because he has a football body (though he has zero football IQ and loafs constantly) I just don't trust him. Basically, those two kids are going to share a spot and let the cards fall where they may. Want to start? compete. Want to play more? compete. We have so many average joes that buy in that I am frankly tired of the superstar mentality some have from other sports.
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