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Post by coach2013 on May 16, 2014 5:41:36 GMT -6
This seems to be a great debate among coaching staffs year in and year out- not our staff because we have our identity and we "do what we do"- but I am interested in hearing from you who make changes each year based on what you "cant" do.
For example, there are years when we are less athletic, maybe slower, less strong or small- some type of limiting factor. We know that most likely we aren't a state champ type team so we just do the best we can with what we have.
Are there those of you out there who feel that finding the right mix of xs and os, the systems if you will, will make you a playoff team no matter what? You make whole sale changes running spread gun one year, power I the next followed by flexbone the next?
Has it worked for you and how have you made it work?
We maybe take the easy way out and know that we have some rebuilding years but we run the same system and simply add or subtract plays or series based on our talent but ultimately our core offense/defense remains unchanged.
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Post by oriolepower on May 16, 2014 6:11:48 GMT -6
Our defense is always the same. We have had great success through the years. On offense we have run the same base concepts for 10 years but dress it up differently. Things time up differently so we adjust for our talent. That has helped us stay competitive.
I think the big thing that stays constant are our offensive line rules. If something doesn't fit into our rules we don't add it. If it can work within our rukes we'll try it.
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Post by jsk002 on May 16, 2014 6:18:26 GMT -6
Defensively we won't change year to year, but I will change if the move is what I feel is best for the program. For example, 3 years ago we want from a 4-4 cover 3 / Cover 1 team to more of a 4-2-5 Split field cover 4. That was not that difficult of a transition.
Now looking at my roster, conference we play-in, etc. etc - we are moving to a 3-4 slanting defense with Cover 4 / 2 as the base. I feel that this is a what we do for the foreseeable future. However, 4 -5 years down the road, who knows. We don't really do wholesale changes to techniques / fundamentals / keys that type of stuff - so hopefully it is not completely foreign for the kids. The exception to this will be the dline play, which will be new as we weren't really a team that moved them a whole lot.
I believe you can have flexibility in scheme from year to year, but you need consistency in how you teach it the game ie. techniques, fundamentals, key / reads. So that kids aren't learning new stuff every single fall.
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Post by indian1 on May 16, 2014 6:26:49 GMT -6
We try to keep the same basic system in place but try to be creative with our personnel. To us getting the right guys in the right places is the toughest thing. I would hate to also try wholesale scheme changes because then you screw up everyone's learning curve of the system (coaches included). We had a kid start at left tackle one year and QB the next. It was the best fit at the time and he easily made the transition because our overall system did not change much.
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Post by wingtol on May 16, 2014 6:27:15 GMT -6
If you expect to have a great program, not team but program, then you need schematic identity for your program. When I look at the good programs in my area I can tell you year in and year out what they are going to run. The bad programs, well it's a toss up ever year of what they will do next.
Having a system you can adapt to your players is key. No way around it. Sure you can say we can't do this or this year in and year out but a system gives you answers with out wholesale changes every year. Being a wing-t team we can fit our players in to the offense in a multitude of ways and still stay sound with our offense. Same with a spread team where you can spread to run, spread to throw, run option, throw short, throw long, whatever. But when guys start saying well we can't be this offense so we better switch to this for the season then your done.
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Post by emptybackfield on May 16, 2014 6:55:58 GMT -6
If you expect to have a great program, not team but program, then you need schematic identity for your program. When I look at the good programs in my area I can tell you year in and year out what they are going to run. The bad programs, well it's a toss up ever year of what they will do next. Having a system you can adapt to your players is key. No way around it. Sure you can say we can't do this or this year in and year out but a system gives you answers with out wholesale changes every year. Being a wing-t team we can fit our players in to the offense in a multitude of ways and still stay sound with our offense. Same with a spread team where you can spread to run, spread to throw, run option, throw short, throw long, whatever. But when guys start saying well we can't be this offense so we better switch to this for the season then your done. This is spot on. Sometimes I think the wholesale changing of offensive and defensive schemes is more for selfish reasons. Coaches may be getting bored coaching a certain system or they see stuff being run on Saturdays that looks fun to coach. |
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Post by coach2013 on May 16, 2014 7:54:13 GMT -6
We are wing-t based also. We have one guy on staff who would enjoy it if we were a bit more wide open as he likes to say " keep them honest"- whats honest is that we do not have much of a passing game. We keep it simple, mainly some 3 step and play action. I just feel that we do not have the qb and receivers to scare anyone and "keeping them honest" is not going to happen. They will still load the box and dare us to throw and we would be playing right into their hands.
We would be better off at improving our belly series or expanding our jet package than working more on the passing game. That's my take.
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Post by CS on May 16, 2014 8:05:32 GMT -6
I actually turned down a job this year because I was talking with the head coach about defense and he was telling me all the different defenses he ran because of personnel changes each year.
I don't believe in it. Someone on here said it best "when you change things whole sale than seniors become freshmen." Couldn't agree more.
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Post by georgefred86 on May 16, 2014 8:27:32 GMT -6
We believe in playing our brand of football ... once you have your identity on offense and defense (for us it's no huddle spread and 3-4), then make it your own and mold it each season to make your personnel fit your identity.
Become an expert of YOUR PROGRAM and to quote Tony Dungy ... DO WHAT YOU DO. I have not seen a program that changes their offense or defense yearly, or every couple of years, succeed ... which means their staffs don't last very long either.
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tekart
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Post by tekart on May 16, 2014 8:46:45 GMT -6
We don't make wholesale changes. But like many have said earlier we are going to do what fits our kids. We will add or remove plays and formations based on what we have coming back. Last year great line and depth at RB did not have a whole lot in the passing game. This year more depth at the receiver position so we have been adding a little in the passing game to maximize what we have. I think you are doing your kids a dis-service and asking for a long season when you change everything from year to year.
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SconnieOC
Junior Member
Just here to learn the facemelter
Posts: 412
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Post by SconnieOC on May 16, 2014 8:52:27 GMT -6
I don't want this to sound rude, but I think coaches saying "we can't do that" is a cop-out. Yes, you may not have a guy to stretch the field, or the back to carry an offense getting 30 carries a game, but find a way to do your stuff with your guys. Our offense might look different to the casual observer every year, but it's the same stuff, just dressed up differently to put our guys in a position to succeed. I understand talent levels change, but the work you put in as a coach should make up for your players deficiencies. You have to adjust to your personnel but I hate seeing coaches change complete systems every year. You succeed with continuity from Freshmen to Seniors. The best programs have that at any level.
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Post by bigm0073 on May 16, 2014 9:30:10 GMT -6
Some simple principles we go by each year. This is how I believe you win football games at the high school level - 1. Run the football. We will make a commitment to running the ball. Obvious reasons. 2. STOP THE RUN! We want to stop you from running and make you play one dimensional. 3. Create turnovers and NOT Turn over the ball. Those 3 concepts are built into the structure of our team. I tell the team before each game - If we run the ball for over 250 yds and they run it for under 85 yds.. If we do not turn the ball over and we get two turnovers from them.. WE WILL WIN!! That formula is usually right 99% of the time. So how do we do it.. Offense - Zone Block and Gap... Everything we run is based off of zone blocking and gap blocking. Some years we MAJOR in IZ/OZ and Minor in Power/Counter.. Other years we Major in Power/Counter and Minor in IZ/OZ.. That being said we will adapt our offense "around" our zone/gap schemes. Lineman are always doing the same thing. We could be 21 personnel, 11 personnel, 20 personnel, 10 personnel.. Often Players dictate. Do we have 2-4 TE/H Back types? If we do not we may major in zone and minor in gap.. If we got some more TE/HBacks we can major in gap and minor in zone.. Who are our best players? Do we have 3-4 good WR? If so we may major in 11/10 personnel.. 20 personnel... If not we major in 21 and 22 personnel.. Can our QB Run? Does he read option well? If so we will put in Zone Read, Zone Triple (All Zone Blocked for OL) and Shovel Option and Inverted Veer (All gap blocked by the OL). Once we add option plays though that means we eliminate and cut back on Pass Plays. If our QB's are not runners (Like this year) We do not have zone read or option plays but we expand our pass game some. The core run plays that are always in are IZ/OZ/Power/Counter. From there we can add option and cut pass plays.. OR Cut Option and add pass plays. In 2011 we were mostly 21 personnel and really ran Power/Counter with some zone.. Could throw the ball well. That was good for us. 2012 Had a good option QB but throwing was ok.. Added option stuff.. Did not like our H Back/TE Types so we ran a TON of OZ/IZ.. Minored in Power.. not a lot of counter. 2013 - Started out in 10 personnel first couple of games. IZ/OZ _ Mazzone stuff with comets, keys.. Realized we had more TE/H back types (Two transfers) and we morphed to a 21 personnel team by mid season and playoffs. As we got into the playoffs sat our QB (More thrower and not runner) and put back an option QB and reinstalled our Zone REad/Triple, SHovel Option, Inverted Veer...Comets.. That was good for us but he was not as good as a passer. So to answer the questions I will adapt my offense around Zone/Gap Blocking. From there we can morph it out. We also at times may morph right in the middle of the season. Here are clips of what I mean - www.hudl.com/presview/222496These clips are with more spread stuff.. run/pass stuff.. You can see when we had the more athletic QB... www.hudl.com/presview/217943Here are power clips out of 21 personnel... Gap stuff.. From the outside it may look like different concepts but to me I am going to adapt/morph our offense to the strength of our team and want them peaking for the playoffs. |
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Post by billyclydepuckett on May 16, 2014 10:18:07 GMT -6
I have the belief that we CAN do anything that we choose however we choose NOT to do certain things because that is not part of our identity. For example, Option Football. Every couple of years it seems like I have to explain to an offensive (usually rookie) assistant that yes we COULD put on the Triple Option and yes it is a GREAT scheme we are not going to do it because that is not what we are. I believe that certain things like Option is something you have to be all in on. You cannot dabble in things like option, it requires your undivided attention.
Other than things like that we have a "skys the limit" attitude about adding or subtracting from our offense. Each year gives us new kids that have different skill sets. And we feel that you must be doing what your kids can do well NOT what you are good at drawing up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 12:47:33 GMT -6
The teams who do this year in and out always seam to be running in place. Usually that place is at the bottom of the league. They tend to get very hung up on having prototypical talent everywhere, rather than coaching up a kid who's less than ideal physically to be a competent technician. I believe a lot of this is about shifting blame for lack of success away from the coaches and onto "talent."
The school I'm leaving is like that. Going into spring practice, the HC still said he didn't know what defense he would run next year (he also didn't want to come back, but now he is). He said it all depends on what talent is there from year to year what he'll do on defense and he never decides that until July.
An example of his mindset was that he said he preferred a 3-3, but couldn't run it because it requires excellent athletes everywhere to make it work, so instead he'd switch from a 3-3 one year to a 4-2 the next and then a 4-3 last year without ever adjusting his teaching or philosophy.
The defense has given up an average of 45 points a game and 9 ypc. since he took over running it 4 years ago...
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Post by newt21 on May 16, 2014 14:27:28 GMT -6
I'll tell you now that I'm a coach that says "we can't do that". But don't mis-interpret what I'm saying in this regard. I don't change my base scheme from year to year, I keep things the same with it's core components, I'm just realistic about what my kids can and can't do. This past year, my QB had a noodle for an arm at best, so when it was brought to my attention that we needed to "pass more to stretch the field" my response to my assistants was "we can't do that, and here's why".
Every year, we play teams that are much bigger, faster, and stronger. I don't run blocking schemes that require my smaller, weaker players to block their bigger, stronger guys one-on-one because "we can't do that". I have been and will be an option coach because it's what I know and what I can coach. I'm going to use my knowledge to put the kids I have in a position to succeed in whatever way I can, based around what we CAN do.
If I have a horse of a RB, I'm going to feed him the ball using our base scheme, along with adding a few complementary plays that play to his strengths (running inside). If I have a speedster, I'm going to do the same, but try to get him in space where he can go to work.
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Post by windigo on May 16, 2014 14:46:11 GMT -6
Our defense is always the same. We have had great success through the years. On offense we have run the same base concepts for 10 years but dress it up differently. Things time up differently so we adjust for our talent. That has helped us stay competitive. I think the big thing that stays constant are our offensive line rules. If something doesn't fit into our rules we don't add it. If it can work within our rukes we'll try it. This is the big key. You have to keep your blocking rules and techniques uniform over 4 years. If you absolutely cannot put in a new concept without adding in a new blocking technique it is not worth running. But you know what? We've have always found ways to modify concepts to our techniques. |
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Post by mariner42 on May 16, 2014 14:59:45 GMT -6
The school I'm leaving is like that. So your job progression is roughly: frying pan --> fryer --> any direction is up?  |
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Post by sweep26 on May 16, 2014 17:19:59 GMT -6
The school I'm leaving is like that. So your job progression is roughly: frying pan --> fryer --> any direction is up? WOW!! |
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Post by coachd5085 on May 17, 2014 10:00:59 GMT -6
The school I'm leaving is like that. So your job progression is roughly: frying pan --> fryer --> any direction is up? Sounds about right, since just a few weeks ago coacharnold was under the impression he was potentially a HC candidate at the school....... |
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Post by mahonz on May 17, 2014 11:32:59 GMT -6
Question.
Im a youth coach so I dont have to preform in order to feed my family so I have run many different systems over the years as a means to simply learn more about these different styles of football. Basically I have no identity but still win some games and have a good time.
That said...how do any of you find your identity if you don't experiment with some of these different styles of football? Years of bouncing from Staff to Staff? A Mentor? What you learned as a Player? A Clinic?.....
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Post by coach2013 on May 17, 2014 11:46:33 GMT -6
Question. Im a youth coach so I dont have to preform in order to feed my family so I have run many different systems over the years as a means to simply learn more about these different styles of football. Basically I have no identity but still win some games and have a good time. That said...how do any of you find your identity if you don't experiment with some of these different styles of football? Years of bouncing from Staff to Staff? A Mentor? What you learned as a Player? A Clinic?..... I learned by doing it at the lower levels and going to clinics. I also visited with successful colleges and high school programs. Like most, we read books, study video, get a mentor and so on. Delaware wing-t is about a philosophy, once you have your philosophy, you have a direction to forming your identity. For you sir, my question is- what is your philosophy for offense? and for defense? If you don't have one, that is why you are still grasping, searching and trying on new pants. |
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Post by mahonz on May 17, 2014 12:26:46 GMT -6
Question. Im a youth coach so I dont have to preform in order to feed my family so I have run many different systems over the years as a means to simply learn more about these different styles of football. Basically I have no identity but still win some games and have a good time. That said...how do any of you find your identity if you don't experiment with some of these different styles of football? Years of bouncing from Staff to Staff? A Mentor? What you learned as a Player? A Clinic?..... I learned by doing it at the lower levels and going to clinics. I also visited with successful colleges and high school programs. Like most, we read books, study video, get a mentor and so on. Delaware wing-t is about a philosophy, once you have your philosophy, you have a direction to forming your identity. For you sir, my question is- what is your philosophy for offense? and for defense? If you don't have one, that is why you are still grasping, searching and trying on new pants. My problem is I bore easily.  My base philosophy on Offense is that I like to pass the football. Its what I learned back in HS as a player in the early 70's...oddly enough....and coverage skills at my level are pretty awful so I take advantage of this. I used to be big into spread formations but have now drifted away from that because everyone and their Mother runs these formations now. Still I will run some Empty as a Package with kids as young as 3rd grade....successfully. Defensively I like pure Man out of the odd fronts. Currently I live in the 46 World and play a ton of bump and run Cover 0. Because of this skill set I have 3 former players playing CB at the College level right now. Very proud of them. I cant live without a NG and Im not into blitzing heavily because I insist on training up LB'rs to become...LB'rs. I have also run a bunch of 353. Tough to teach with all of the moving pieces parts but a fun D to call on game day. The 46 tends to run itself. The biggie for me is when I dig really deep into this Forum I always find something interesting...so I dumb it down and give it a try for grins. Thanks for the response. I was just curious how a paid professional finds his identity. Me? I can get away with not having one. |
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Post by coach2013 on May 17, 2014 13:41:50 GMT -6
So you like to pass. Air Raid, run and shoot and so on.
I would imagine that "boring easily" would have more to do with formations than your base plays? I mean what is you hang your hat on as part of your PASS FIRST philosophy? Are you hanging your hat on screens and three step? Are you hanging your hat on slants, crossing routes and 4 verticals? I would suggest that you think of yourself as a boxer, what is your signature punch? What is you will do ever year, very well regardless of the particular hand you are delt?
For us, we run off tackle and trap, doesn't matter what kind of kids we have, if you don't stop off tackle and trap plays, we will score a lot of points.
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Post by coach2013 on May 17, 2014 13:42:36 GMT -6
I learned by doing it at the lower levels and going to clinics. I also visited with successful colleges and high school programs. Like most, we read books, study video, get a mentor and so on. Delaware wing-t is about a philosophy, once you have your philosophy, you have a direction to forming your identity. For you sir, my question is- what is your philosophy for offense? and for defense? If you don't have one, that is why you are still grasping, searching and trying on new pants. My problem is I bore easily. My base philosophy on Offense is that I like to pass the football. Its what I learned back in HS as a player in the early 70's...oddly enough....and coverage skills at my level are pretty awful so I take advantage of this. I used to be big into spread formations but have now drifted away from that because everyone and their Mother runs these formations now. Still I will run some Empty as a Package with kids as young as 3rd grade....successfully. Defensively I like pure Man out of the odd fronts. Currently I live in the 46 World and play a ton of bump and run Cover 0. Because of this skill set I have 3 former players playing CB at the College level right now. Very proud of them. I cant live without a NG and Im not into blitzing heavily because I insist on training up LB'rs to become...LB'rs. I have also run a bunch of 353. Tough to teach with all of the moving pieces parts but a fun D to call on game day. The 46 tends to run itself. The biggie for me is when I dig really deep into this Forum I always find something interesting...so I dumb it down and give it a try for grins. Thanks for the response. I was just curious how a paid professional finds his identity. Me? I can get away with not having one. see most post above |
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Post by mahonz on May 17, 2014 15:40:20 GMT -6
So you like to pass. Air Raid, run and shoot and so on. I would imagine that "boring easily" would have more to do with formations than your base plays? I mean what is you hang your hat on as part of your PASS FIRST philosophy? Are you hanging your hat on screens and three step? Are you hanging your hat on slants, crossing routes and 4 verticals? I would suggest that you think of yourself as a boxer, what is your signature punch? What is you will do ever year, very well regardless of the particular hand you are delt? For us, we run off tackle and trap, doesn't matter what kind of kids we have, if you don't stop off tackle and trap plays, we will score a lot of points. Not really. Some things I believe in and some things I dont. I will explain. I don’t really understand the value of Concepts because my QB has 2 reads….throw it to the Receiver I tell you too or run. I finally got to see Coach Slacks Presentation at Glazier just last February yet I have been coaching Smurf QB’s how to throw a football since 1989. I never read a book by Black or Coverdale or Mumme. Heck Im not even sure all of those guys have even written a book. Im assuming they have. The Run and Shoot makes no sense too me. Im that guy that will run the Wing T as designed one season, the DW the next and the Flexbone the next but all of them with a pass first mentality. The Flexbone I eventually ran backwards because it worked better. The counter was my bread and butter and option was my “counter” and the pass was the kill shot. I will use the passing game as my bread and butter and counter with the run and visa versa. But that wont be happening from one season to the next due to the talent level…that will happen from one week to the next. If anyone is ever curious what would happen if you were to pass the football every down for the entire game… I can answer that question for you. Some years I go trap heavy but I don’t pull OLM to run trap. We WHAM it. I have not pulled an OLM in many many years because I no longer see any value in doing that. That is what running the DW taught me. Why bother teaching something that has to be close to perfect in order to work? On the flip side its what I really liked about the Wing T. With its smoke and mirrors backfield actions you really dont have to be anywhere close to perfect in order to do really well. Bellevue taught me that when they played DLS. Yes they were perfect but they made that DLS D look…well…stupid. They didn’t have to block anybody either…and didn’t at times…intentionally. I love the SW but learned to hate an offense where the QB isn’t under center. I love the I formation but only when I have a FB….not the TB. I hate the Split Back but enjoy cross fires. I think the Air Raid is based out of the Split Back. I ran Empty as my base twice for an entire season just to see if we could. We couldn’t. The Pistol Formation is dumb. Freaks out my QB’s. I like Speed Sweeps but only when the kids are really young. I have “invented” more than one youth Offense…successfully. One was called Monster, the other Frankenstein because they were pieces from many different systems sewn together. I have only changed Offense’s once during the season because things were going nowhere really fast. And yes…I will raise my hand and say that I ran the A-11 one season with 8th graders. It was a very bad idea but not because of that Snake Oil Salesman Bryant…the Officials just didn’t get it. Very frustrating. So as you can see…I am very confused but that’s OK. Having fun doing it but I am sure I would have been fired 10 times over at the HS level by now. That is why I asked how you all get to your identity in the first place. |
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creid
Sophomore Member
Posts: 148
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Post by creid on May 18, 2014 19:57:53 GMT -6
When I first started coaching, I read an article by Coach Eddie Robinson where he mentions that at the first coaching clinic he attended he asked for advice as he was taking the Grambling job at a very young age. He was told to develop a system and stick to it. So he did. Obviously, Coach was much smarter than me because it took me a while to figure out what he meant by a "system", however, I should have figured it out right away…unfortunately, it took me the better part of a decade to get it. For the past 18 years on offense and the past 16 on defense, We've run a system. It works for us. We have evolved greatly on offense and don't look at all like we did 18 years ago, or even 8 years ago for that matter, but it is all within the constraints of our system and philosophy.
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Post by lochness on May 18, 2014 21:18:24 GMT -6
So you like to pass. Air Raid, run and shoot and so on. I would imagine that "boring easily" would have more to do with formations than your base plays? I mean what is you hang your hat on as part of your PASS FIRST philosophy? Are you hanging your hat on screens and three step? Are you hanging your hat on slants, crossing routes and 4 verticals? I would suggest that you think of yourself as a boxer, what is your signature punch? What is you will do ever year, very well regardless of the particular hand you are delt? For us, we run off tackle and trap, doesn't matter what kind of kids we have, if you don't stop off tackle and trap plays, we will score a lot of points. Not really. Some things I believe in and some things I dont. I will explain. I don’t really understand the value of Concepts because my QB has 2 reads….throw it to the Receiver I tell you too or run. I finally got to see Coach Slacks Presentation at Glazier just last February yet I have been coaching Smurf QB’s how to throw a football since 1989. I never read a book by Black or Coverdale or Mumme. Heck Im not even sure all of those guys have even written a book. Im assuming they have. The Run and Shoot makes no sense too me. Im that guy that will run the Wing T as designed one season, the DW the next and the Flexbone the next but all of them with a pass first mentality. The Flexbone I eventually ran backwards because it worked better. The counter was my bread and butter and option was my “counter” and the pass was the kill shot. I will use the passing game as my bread and butter and counter with the run and visa versa. But that wont be happening from one season to the next due to the talent level…that will happen from one week to the next. If anyone is ever curious what would happen if you were to pass the football every down for the entire game… I can answer that question for you. Some years I go trap heavy but I don’t pull OLM to run trap. We WHAM it. I have not pulled an OLM in many many years because I no longer see any value in doing that. That is what running the DW taught me. Why bother teaching something that has to be close to perfect in order to work? On the flip side its what I really liked about the Wing T. With its smoke and mirrors backfield actions you really dont have to be anywhere close to perfect in order to do really well. Bellevue taught me that when they played DLS. Yes they were perfect but they made that DLS D look…well…stupid. They didn’t have to block anybody either…and didn’t at times…intentionally. I love the SW but learned to hate an offense where the QB isn’t under center. I love the I formation but only when I have a FB….not the TB. I hate the Split Back but enjoy cross fires. I think the Air Raid is based out of the Split Back. I ran Empty as my base twice for an entire season just to see if we could. We couldn’t. The Pistol Formation is dumb. Freaks out my QB’s. I like Speed Sweeps but only when the kids are really young. I have “invented” more than one youth Offense…successfully. One was called Monster, the other Frankenstein because they were pieces from many different systems sewn together. I have only changed Offense’s once during the season because things were going nowhere really fast. And yes…I will raise my hand and say that I ran the A-11 one season with 8th graders. It was a very bad idea but not because of that Snake Oil Salesman Bryant…the Officials just didn’t get it. Very frustrating. So as you can see…I am very confused but that’s OK. Having fun doing it but I am sure I would have been fired 10 times over at the HS level by now. That is why I asked how you all get to your identity in the first place. Coach one of your questions earlier was how "do you establish an identity?" While I understand what you're saying about coaching youth being different than coaching in high school with regard to needing to stick to a system year in and year out, I would argue that establishing an identity has a lot to do with becoming proficient and eventually expert in something that you've done through experience year after year as a coach. If you're changing offenses almost literally every year, how do you get good at any one thing? Yes, you certainly learn by trying different things, but establishing expertise in an offensive system requires years of learning their weaknesses and strengths and going to the processes of tweaking them. If you don't stick with any one system for a while you really can't establish an identity because you will not gain enough experience within that system understand how to become a master of it. i'm not trying to argue that that's the right or wrong way of doing things, just trying to answer your question about how coaches establish an identity. |
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Post by mahonz on May 18, 2014 21:42:38 GMT -6
Not really. Some things I believe in and some things I dont. I will explain. I don’t really understand the value of Concepts because my QB has 2 reads….throw it to the Receiver I tell you too or run. I finally got to see Coach Slacks Presentation at Glazier just last February yet I have been coaching Smurf QB’s how to throw a football since 1989. I never read a book by Black or Coverdale or Mumme. Heck Im not even sure all of those guys have even written a book. Im assuming they have. The Run and Shoot makes no sense too me. Im that guy that will run the Wing T as designed one season, the DW the next and the Flexbone the next but all of them with a pass first mentality. The Flexbone I eventually ran backwards because it worked better. The counter was my bread and butter and option was my “counter” and the pass was the kill shot. I will use the passing game as my bread and butter and counter with the run and visa versa. But that wont be happening from one season to the next due to the talent level…that will happen from one week to the next. If anyone is ever curious what would happen if you were to pass the football every down for the entire game… I can answer that question for you. Some years I go trap heavy but I don’t pull OLM to run trap. We WHAM it. I have not pulled an OLM in many many years because I no longer see any value in doing that. That is what running the DW taught me. Why bother teaching something that has to be close to perfect in order to work? On the flip side its what I really liked about the Wing T. With its smoke and mirrors backfield actions you really dont have to be anywhere close to perfect in order to do really well. Bellevue taught me that when they played DLS. Yes they were perfect but they made that DLS D look…well…stupid. They didn’t have to block anybody either…and didn’t at times…intentionally. I love the SW but learned to hate an offense where the QB isn’t under center. I love the I formation but only when I have a FB….not the TB. I hate the Split Back but enjoy cross fires. I think the Air Raid is based out of the Split Back. I ran Empty as my base twice for an entire season just to see if we could. We couldn’t. The Pistol Formation is dumb. Freaks out my QB’s. I like Speed Sweeps but only when the kids are really young. I have “invented” more than one youth Offense…successfully. One was called Monster, the other Frankenstein because they were pieces from many different systems sewn together. I have only changed Offense’s once during the season because things were going nowhere really fast. And yes…I will raise my hand and say that I ran the A-11 one season with 8th graders. It was a very bad idea but not because of that Snake Oil Salesman Bryant…the Officials just didn’t get it. Very frustrating. So as you can see…I am very confused but that’s OK. Having fun doing it but I am sure I would have been fired 10 times over at the HS level by now. That is why I asked how you all get to your identity in the first place. Coach one of your questions earlier was how "do you establish an identity?" While I understand what you're saying about coaching youth being different than coaching in high school with regard to needing to stick to a system year in and year out, I would argue that establishing an identity has a lot to do with becoming proficient and eventually expert in something that you've done through experience year after year as a coach. If you're changing offenses almost literally every year, how do you get good at any one thing? Yes, you certainly learn by trying different things, but establishing expertise in an offensive system requires years of learning their weaknesses and strengths and going to the processes of tweaking them. If you don't stick with any one system for a while you really can't establish an identity because you will not gain enough experience within that system understand how to become a master of it. i'm not trying to argue that that's the right or wrong way of doing things, just trying to answer your question about how coaches establish an identity. Excellent points. Am I really good at coaching one particular system? Not really. I have tried to stick with certain things and find an identity but it just doesn't fit my personality. I blame this Forum.  Half of everything I read here I don't understand....the other half I will give it a go just to see. So far the results have been pretty darn good so thank you for that. I don't post a lot but I read everything. |
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Post by pvogel on May 19, 2014 10:12:55 GMT -6
I firmly believe that if your scheme is not flexible to adjust to talent, then you have failed in designing a productive scheme.
If you are air raid but have an athletic kid that can't throw at qb thats fine. Its not time to change your whole system. You should have a run game that is developed enough to support running the ball more than throwing. Terminology and fundamentals should remain the same.
On the flip side, if you are wing-t but have a phenom that can throw a mile in your program you need to be flexible enough to increase the amount of throws without changing your base identity and scheme.
I've seen several instances of teams being successful in this way because their schemes were sound.
What I will say is that the type of system I want to run when I go to a place does depend on the traditional talent set that the school has had. Basketball types = Spread. Wrestling types = Flexbone. Big, country boy types = pro style. But in each system I can adjust run/pass tendency and playcalling based on personnel.
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Post by bigm0073 on May 19, 2014 10:24:24 GMT -6
Agreed... That is why for us it all starts with
Zone and Gap blocking.. From there we can adapt..
Big, Physical Kids..Power/Counter/IZ/OZ... PAP Pass, Pass, Quick, Boots...
Quicker Kids and a good thrower... IZ/OZ Maybe more Spread Stuff.. Less Power.. More pass concepts..
QB is a runner... Incorporate Zone Read/ Gap Read Run Plays... Cut back on the pass plays...
QB can throw but is not athletic.. Eliminate Option Portion and expand pass
Kind of like you said.. We try and incorporate and adjust our offense to our teams strength... It all starts for us up front blocking..
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