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Post by nltdiego on Mar 10, 2014 22:54:07 GMT -6
Coaches,
Currently starting my 2nd full year as the HC of a program that predominately loses. They had not won a league game in two years when I took over. We went 4-6 last year and beat our rivals. The biggest problem taking over was selfish football players last year. I weeded most of them out last year but still a few hung around and I still have a few that will be Seniors next year. Few issues I see: 1. All want to be FB - few of them even compared themselves to Marshawn Lynch (sad I know) 2. Disobey rules- we have a certain protocol in the weight room in regards to the our attire- they continue to not follow the guidelines even if it is making the entire team/rack run 3. So concerned about doing arms (bis/tris) instead of our core lifts. 4. Whine when we max that we make them go to low for squats and they can't get stronger (again sad I know) 5. Think because they are seniors they matter and will start
Last year I had more selfish guys that outweigh the good. Fortunately this year I only have a few bad apples and the good ones seem to be outweighing the bad ones.
Do any of you do team building activities that you feel have helped? Anybody else have this issue?
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Post by bluedevil4 on Mar 10, 2014 23:32:57 GMT -6
1. You have to prove to them that playing other positions is just as gratifying.
2. If they don't want to follow your rules, then they aren't going to play
3. Show them Barry Sanders and Earl Campbell videos. Show college teams' (OREGON) players doing core workouts
4. Don't let them take bad reps during regular workouts. Again, show them college teams' (OREGON) players doing workouts correctly. Points 3 and 4 may seem lazy, but we used to have a major problem with getting kids to do core lifts and squat properly. A kid on our team put on our team Facebook page a video of South Carolina players squatting and doing core lifts. The next day, every player who saw the video was fighting over who would squat next. We were kind of surprised at how simple it was. Sometimes just letting the kids figure it out on their own is the best way.
5. If they don't deserve to start, don't start them.
If kids want to whine and complain, let them do that all they want. Once you concede to a pouter, they've gotten you in their hands and not the other way around.
We have plenty of selfish kids in our program with massive egos, but if they do their jobs better than everyone else, they'll get all the playing time.
You also have to figure out how each and every individual kid ticks. What gets under their skin? What motivates them? What motivational or coaching tactics will they respond negatively too? As our O-line coach calls it: You gotta play "Dr. Phil," to get buy-in from all of your kids.
The best team building activities that have worked for us our team dinners. We've seen coaches try to force team bonding and team building events on kids, and it just hasn't worked here in our community. Our team has become very close recently because the good apples have risen to the top, and rather than us coaches over-working ourselves on the bad-apples, the good apples eventually replace them, then the younger kids start wanting to be like the good apples. What do they do to bond? They organize events on their own. Weekend bowling, movie nights, etc. All without coaches advice/input. Find the winners on your team and put them in position to lead their peers.
DO NOT MICROMANAGE. Do not concentrate too much on the bad apples. Focus your time on the good ones. We try to stay as hands-off as possible with the kids, especially off the field. Then when we find the good kids, we encourage them to lead the team, then the problem usually takes care of itself within the players. Players, we've noticed, fixing problems within the team infrastructure can do a lot more good than us coaches doing it.
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Post by coach2013 on Mar 11, 2014 2:18:39 GMT -6
I think if most of the kids are good kids and you are making the whole team run for individual turdness you are making a mistake.
When a kid comes to the wt room in the wrong gear, send him packing. If you cant send him packing, then pull him aside for a chat. "If I cant trust you here, in the weight room, I cant trust you on the field" and let him know that this is unacceptable and will cost him playing time. Then make him run.
The others aren't controlling him, hes controlling himself and testing you.
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Post by coachvann on Mar 11, 2014 5:47:06 GMT -6
Faced the same issue when I got here 5 years ago...tons of great athletes who thought about themselves in the weight room...I was told this advice-Graduate your seniors and develop your underclassmen. You have less guys being cancers right now but the fact of the matter is that they are cancers-and older cancers can spread-They either need to change or get out-I promise it will be better in the long run.
Here is something practical that we did that helped that culture and changed some of our cancers. We broke into groups for workouts-I made sure I took 3 good guys to 1 "cancer" type of kid. We were on a whistle system in the weight room...so they stayed on their racks and was all given numbers-1 through 4. Blew the whistle for each guy to squat, power clean or whatever lift we had. The three guys began to correct the one guy who was an issue. But there are some you just can't change-you gotta let them weed themselves out as long as you keep the bar high.
Keep on working-everybody wants the quick fix...it takes time to develop a program!
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Post by coach2013 on Mar 11, 2014 5:57:41 GMT -6
We all have cancers, some just haven't been found yet. The kids that are trouble makers will show their face soon enough. I think its important to have a confrontation with those kids sooner than later. rather have them 'quit" in the off season then have drama inseason.
I am going through this right now, kids missing football workouts- big time excuses but they seem to make arrangements for other sports or events. Then during the season its all crying about me me me and how its unfair etc. I am taking this on in their face right now.
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Post by John Knight on Mar 11, 2014 6:28:56 GMT -6
If you want your garden to flourish, you gotta pull some weeds!
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Post by groundchuck on Mar 11, 2014 6:40:44 GMT -6
As coaches it needs to be modeled.
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Post by CoachHess on Mar 11, 2014 6:43:52 GMT -6
If you only have a few bad apples and can afford to live without them, do so. Let those who want to be a part of a team and buy in to the team concept run the roost. Run the others off and be better for it.
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Post by olcoach53 on Mar 11, 2014 7:41:17 GMT -6
I agree with all these posts. Don't waste your time on the kids who want to waste time. Put your time into the kids that WANT to get better and prepare themselves to get better.
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Post by fantom on Mar 11, 2014 8:35:07 GMT -6
Coaches, Currently starting my 2nd full year as the HC of a program that predominately loses. They had not won a league game in two years when I took over. We went 4-6 last year and beat our rivals. The biggest problem taking over was selfish football players last year. I weeded most of them out last year but still a few hung around and I still have a few that will be Seniors next year. Few issues I see: 1. All want to be FB - few of them even compared themselves to Marshawn Lynch (sad I know) 2. Disobey rules- we have a certain protocol in the weight room in regards to the our attire- they continue to not follow the guidelines even if it is making the entire team/rack run 3. So concerned about doing arms (bis/tris) instead of our core lifts. 4. Whine when we max that we make them go to low for squats and they can't get stronger (again sad I know) 5. Think because they are seniors they matter and will start Last year I had more selfish guys that outweigh the good. Fortunately this year I only have a few bad apples and the good ones seem to be outweighing the bad ones. Do any of you do team building activities that you feel have helped? Anybody else have this issue? 1. They don't get to decide what position they play. 2. Punishing the team isn't working so stop. Punish those who are breaking the rules. Just out of curiosity, what is this protocol and why is it so important? 3. In the weight room they do our workout, period. When they're done, on their own time, they can curl as much as they want to. 4. They don't have to like it, they just have to do it. Whine away but get your a$$ lower. 5. This ain't a union shop. Seniority doesn't matter here. Best players play.
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Post by wingtol on Mar 11, 2014 10:10:51 GMT -6
If it's seniors giving you balls about all this I would say don't even worry about them. Focus on the younger kids who are doing what you need/want them to do. Sometimes you can't control all that off season stuff at the time but you can control playing time when the season comes. Play young kids because the best thing about a sophomore is they become juniors then seniors, build with them. Those seniors who are PIA's will be gone in a year others will be around for longer.
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Post by coach2013 on Mar 11, 2014 10:29:49 GMT -6
In my experience the lack of buy in will usually be seniors with a "loser syndrome" meaning they are fine with being losers and resent the positive changes you have made to the culture and expectations. They are testing and fighting to be unchanged and remain in control.
You might have to make an example out of one or two - it happens.
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Post by fantom on Mar 11, 2014 12:16:29 GMT -6
Coaches, Currently starting my 2nd full year as the HC of a program that predominately loses. They had not won a league game in two years when I took over. We went 4-6 last year and beat our rivals. The biggest problem taking over was selfish football players last year. I weeded most of them out last year but still a few hung around and I still have a few that will be Seniors next year. Few issues I see: 1. All want to be FB - few of them even compared themselves to Marshawn Lynch (sad I know) 2. Disobey rules- we have a certain protocol in the weight room in regards to the our attire- they continue to not follow the guidelines even if it is making the entire team/rack run 3. So concerned about doing arms (bis/tris) instead of our core lifts. 4. Whine when we max that we make them go to low for squats and they can't get stronger (again sad I know) 5. Think because they are seniors they matter and will start Last year I had more selfish guys that outweigh the good. Fortunately this year I only have a few bad apples and the good ones seem to be outweighing the bad ones. Do any of you do team building activities that you feel have helped? Anybody else have this issue? There's no Heaven here on Earth. These problems are not peculiar to bad teams. Good teams have their share of whiners, selfish kids, and kids who will test the rules, too. They all want to be fullbacks? Well, no $hit. Ever go to the park on Saturday and see kids working on pass pro? Very few kids grew up wanting to be offensive guards. It's only a problem if the kids who you put at guard refuse to make an effort. Then you replace him. With whom? Anybody who wants to play the position. A guy who won't is no better than a guy who can't. Good teams have problems, just like bad teams, but those problems are magnified on bad teams. You're not losing because kids won''t wear the prescribed attire in the weight room. You're losing because a lot of them are bad football players.
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Post by cwucat72 on Mar 11, 2014 13:58:27 GMT -6
Coach, For our kids I took what the current Seahawks and forme USC strength coach (Carlisle) calls the Apple Pie effect. We end every workout with something they want to do. It lets them leave with the idea that the workout was fun and they got to do the cool lifts that they like. For us one day we end with Biceps and Back, on another day we end with triceps and shoulders. We also finish any speed and agility session with games. His idea was that he always remembers his mothers cooking no matter what she cooked. It was because after dinner he always got a dessert and that is all he ever remembered.
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Post by spartan on Mar 11, 2014 14:17:44 GMT -6
I find that having daily conversations with our most challenging kids gets us the best results. Build a relationship, then shame them into it ;. They won't care what your saying until you show them you care.
I have noticed this is more of a Suburban problem then inner city one.
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Post by coach2013 on Mar 11, 2014 14:38:33 GMT -6
Coach, For our kids I took what the current Seahawks and forme USC strength coach (Carlisle) calls the Apple Pie effect. We end every workout with something they want to do. It lets them leave with the idea that the workout was fun and they got to do the cool lifts that they like. For us one day we end with Biceps and Back, on another day we end with triceps and shoulders. We also finish any speed and agility session with games. His idea was that he always remembers his mothers cooking no matter what she cooked. It was because after dinner he always got a dessert and that is all he ever remembered. We do this too.
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Post by buck42 on Mar 11, 2014 20:16:20 GMT -6
Don't over complicate it. I know you feel like you need them but you don't. They will do their own thing later in a game and it will cost you.
I am not a yeller and screamer. I had a kid that refused to try and complete a ladder drill. Instead of wasting my time with him I sat him in a chair outside the weight room so I could see him and so could the class.
While the class was getting the rack set up for the lift I took a buddy of his and a leader outside to talk with him. I told him I didn't have time for quitters and people that chose not to follow the rules I put forth.
He sat there the entire class...took a "0" for the day. However, the next day he worked as hard as he ever has. If it lasts or not I don't know. But I am not going to waste time on him. You will be amazed how much kids respond when they think they are slidding out ta favor with you. If they don't respond positively then move on.
Now I am not a coach that holds grudges but I never forget. We have a kid who quit, 3 more I removed from the team, all sophs or froshs. I told them its a new season so you start fresh. But I also reminded them I haven't forgotten. All 4 are working hard...and 3 of them are in the same class...they saw me handle a rising senior that way they know I'm not messing around with them.
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Post by 19holmes on Mar 11, 2014 21:35:38 GMT -6
One team building thing we did in the offseason was trash can football. It's competitive and the kids love it. Each team has a trash can to defend. You can run with the ball until you are touched. You can pitch or throw the ball at anytime. Do anything possible to score.
I feel like this also gives the coaches an idea of who can do what. You will notice the kids who could return kicks or throw for a trick play right away.
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Post by 19holmes on Mar 13, 2014 11:44:28 GMT -6
What is trash can football? Please explain. Think basketball but with a trash can and a football. -When you get the ball you can run until you are touched. -You can throw or pitch the ball whenever you want -Just do anything possible to score -Can get a little physical just make sure you limit how rough they get
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Post by fballcoachg on Mar 13, 2014 17:21:12 GMT -6
I thought I should add in... I'm not advocating just abandoning the seniors because you obviously need some upperclassmen but you have to throw down a dividing line. Get what you can get out of the seniors and develop the younger guys and if you're going to develop them then they need some meaningful clock. You just can't replace experience and like I have said in other threads, EVERYTIME I have given a freshman or sophomore PT, that kid has been a die hard weight room/program guy. I had to delete the rest...I was getting pretty worked up. I have a defensive player that is almost exactly like you are describing. Guess who has a better chance of seeing a Leprechaun riding a Unicorn through downtown Atlantis than seeing playing time. So you're saying there's a chance? In the weight room really play up the gains of those that are working hard, give them preference of everything, use positive reinforcement. With those that won't get along, don't make it an option (that being said, I've never really understood why some feel the lifting "uniform" is so vital but that may be another thread). Refuse to do our lifts? Go home. Refuse to go all the way down? It doesn't count. Won't do it again? Go home. Simple solution, not worth arguing or ripping them a new one, they are immune to that and blow it off, just point to the door and keep talking about how those in the WR working hard will reap the benefits and start on top of the depth chart.
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