coachh
Junior Member
Posts: 336
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Post by coachh on Dec 28, 2007 20:06:26 GMT -6
Please excuse my ignorance, I have never run either. But what is the difference between fly sweep and jet. When run from the gun is it also called fly sweep?
Thanks
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Post by theprez98 on Dec 28, 2007 21:35:17 GMT -6
Please excuse my ignorance, I have never run either. But what is the difference between fly sweep and jet. When run from the gun is it also called fly sweep? Thanks I would say it's the same thing--a handoff to a man in motion. Shotgun doesn't make any difference. There may be associated actions that make the change in terminology. For example, one playbook I have says: In the end, to me it's the same thing. |
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Post by fbdoc on Dec 28, 2007 21:46:14 GMT -6
It's basically the same thing but here is my take -
Fly is a West Coast term, Jet is Midwest and East.
Fly is motion from a WR while Jet is motion from a wing or tight slot.
Its two terms that seem to get used back and forth.
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Post by cc on Dec 28, 2007 23:30:36 GMT -6
Some other things I have come across. Jet is more tied to Wing T and Double Wing Systems. It uses a handoff where the motion man has his hands by his hips thumbs out and palms facing forward. Thus jet often also has tight splits. Has a great quick underneath reverse to the other wing man. Much like Double wing waggle. Fly is often a system of its own are a series in an offense. Fly teams use wide splits. Fly is often Split back or Ace back. Fly is more with conventional offenses. But then again lots of Wing teams probably call it fly  |
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Post by larrymoe on Dec 28, 2007 23:49:46 GMT -6
Fine then, what's the difference between jet and rocket?
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Post by theprez98 on Dec 29, 2007 0:01:37 GMT -6
Fine then, what's the difference between jet and rocket? Jet is a handoff, Rocket is a toss. |
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Post by lionhart on Dec 29, 2007 0:03:17 GMT -6
here'sw my 2 cents... probably totally different than what everyone else does. "fly" refers to the motion of a slot/wide out coming 3/4 speed in front of the qb (we are a gun team)... while "jet " means the fly motion player will actually get the ball. so we could call h fly 2 jet and the fly motion player gets thje ball and runs jet. or we could run h fly 2 dart where the fly motion player is a fake and the rb gets the ball on dart. for us.. rocket is a toss sweep to a "fly" motion player.
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Post by goldenbear76 on Dec 29, 2007 2:03:40 GMT -6
We refer to fly sweep as our slot going into motion at full speed to receive the handoff, then bows slightly to get outside. We also run Fake fly sweep Trap (just a fake handoff to the fly guy and give to FB for the trap. ) I always thought Jet was done by the outside guy, and fly was inside (Slot).
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Post by spartancoach on Dec 29, 2007 8:10:29 GMT -6
I beleive the short answer is that they are the same, unless you choose to ascribe different meanings.
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cls
Junior Member
Posts: 295
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Post by cls on Dec 29, 2007 9:31:50 GMT -6
From my understanding the fly sweep teams don't pull guards and the almost always lead a RB.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 29, 2007 20:24:29 GMT -6
Nope, you are all wrong. Fly sweep and Jet sweep are in reference to when the hand off fake to the FB takes place (before or after the motion)
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Post by fbdoc on Dec 29, 2007 20:40:27 GMT -6
Coachorr - we run fly sweep out of empty from under center and gun. The FB fake is a big part of our offense but when we have a STUD sweeper that the defense must account for we'll fake the sweep out of empty and PAP or run the QB keep/draw.
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Post by theprez98 on Dec 29, 2007 20:55:09 GMT -6
Nope, you are all wrong. Fly sweep and Jet sweep are in reference to when the hand off fake to the FB takes place (before or after the motion) I think its a little presumptuous to say everyone is wrong, and you are right. Some teams use these terms (fly, jet) in different ways. For example, we call it jet, regardless of when the fake takes place. |
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 29, 2007 21:00:23 GMT -6
Semantics
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Post by theprez98 on Dec 29, 2007 21:00:52 GMT -6
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Post by tog on Dec 29, 2007 21:02:30 GMT -6
Nope, you are all wrong. Fly sweep and Jet sweep are in reference to when the hand off fake to the FB takes place (before or after the motion) I think its a little presumptuous to say everyone is wrong, and you are right. Some teams use these terms (fly, jet) in different ways. For example, we call it jet, regardless of when the fake takes place. good point we call it these things jet--when the back is leading off the edge--or there fly--when there is a run fake inside by the back i know that isn't how the jetsweep gurus call it i don't really care what they call what i just study things and then apply them how i see fit |
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Post by coachmoore42 on Dec 30, 2007 3:55:30 GMT -6
Jet = the sweeper "jetting" into the endzone.
Fly = the sweeper "flying" into the endzone.
Either play ends in the endzone.
But I'm biased, I love the play whatever you want to call it.
Like others have said, it means different things to different people.
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Post by wingtol on Dec 30, 2007 9:29:44 GMT -6
Fine then, what's the difference between jet and rocket? Jet is a flat motion where the qb hands the ball to the man in motion. Rocket is when the motion man goes in a three step type motion behind the fb and the ball is then pitched to him wide usually about the C gap or wider. |
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Post by thebulldog on Dec 30, 2007 12:29:50 GMT -6
This stuff is all great! I love it! Just another note that I picked up at the Triple Shoot Implementation Clinic in Columbus, Ohio. Coach Matsakis made an interesting statement, "Very few things are invented today in the game, but the most effective are just an adjustment that fits are particular system." Part of his Triple Shoot system does utilize the fly/jet. Here is how he said he came up with it.... He was recruiting in Long Island and went to visit a friend that he had helped out back when he was at Hofstra (I believe, Freeport H.S.) That coach gave him a present of a book written back in the 1950's by Dutch Meyer (TCU). Coach M read the book and realized that when he saw a picture of Sammy Baugh (?) faking to a full-speed receiver out of shotgun (This sounds familiar) ... That he could adjust his offense (Which was currently running the triple option) by putting the qb under center and utilizing triple option blocking schemes to execute what he calls the Belly & Pop Out. He even said that the only reason he stayed with it was that the receiver was able to hold the 5 technique in check and his running back was able to run North & South. I thought this was an interesting historical note from a system that utilizes the fly/jet in the offensive package.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 30, 2007 12:37:31 GMT -6
I wasn't trying to be rude about it I was just stating that this was the original wording of the offense by Tubby Raymond. The question was asked and this is the answer. What one person calls it or another is not what I am saying. I am just pointing out how the two sweeps received their names. I worked with a guy who thought he was running bucksweep, but it was really jet sweep. See, he invented this series of plays watching some film. Well, if he would have just researched either bucksweep or jet sweep he would have had a lot more success. In my opinion, this is the problem when people just start making stuff up. Their is a fine line between innovation and reinvention. Usually, when people try and reinvent the wheel, they have to make all the mistakes that someone else has already made. And you know who the losers are, the kids who only have one or two years to play the game. It is sad when foolish pride of a coach gets in the way of coaching. I think it is better to have a core that has been tested and proven, this is why it is important to me to call a play what it is and not just call it whatever. I guess I am just being anal, but I love this article: web.archive.org/web/20041014020435/www.bucksweep.com/precise.htm |
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Post by lionhart on Dec 30, 2007 13:10:00 GMT -6
i still dont understand. how are the kids losing out? if one coach runs mesh with a post over the top by the outside receiver, and another coach runs mesh with the same receiver running a corner..... is one the REAL mesh while another is a "reinvention"? one coach refers to a corner/hitch route combo as a "smash"... while another coach runs a post-corner with the outside wr and an arrow with the inside receiver.. and calls it "smash". which one is the "real" smash? i think we need to be a little more open minded about this.. if you teach a kid that a "filly" block is your term for a fold block.... whats the big deal? one team could call a ploay an "outside zone" while another calls it "stretch". the kids lose out because of this?
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Post by coachorr on Dec 30, 2007 13:20:14 GMT -6
In a former situation, I thought the kids lost out, because there was too much invention going on, so I am therefore a bit too anal because of it. What you are describing is simple route combos, not entire offenses.
I would rather run something that has been proven and tested than make something up. That's just me, low risk.
Take the article written by TOG on gun jets. Great article with some film, I can digest that because it has been done before. Someone has tested it and has worked out all of the kinks.
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Post by lionhart on Dec 30, 2007 13:28:09 GMT -6
i understand your poin... because "jet" can refer to an offensive system. but it has also been used as a term desciribing a play or series of plays WITHIN an offense.... especially out of the gun. we played a "jet" team this year.... they block noone past the 3 tech backside, outnumber you by as many as possible to the perimeter, and throw in a rocket sweep too. off of it they will run counter or fb dive. thats about the entire offense. so in that case, i agree...... i wouldnt call it a "buck sweep" offense. but i think that as the game has evolved, plays and terminology have been morphed into various offenses/systems/etc. tubby raymond wouldnt believe what can be done with his wing t concepts nowadays.... (even full-time out of the gun)
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Post by coachorr on Dec 30, 2007 15:39:06 GMT -6
YES Lionhart, very good comments, I agree. WE block noone from the 3 tech frontside. We let anyone inside the PST go and work up to the next level, depending on the formation and the blocking scheme. Most of the time we will TAG it and pull the front side tackle and guard.
If you have not had a chance to read the GUN JETS article by Tog I would recommend it to everyone.
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Post by tog on Dec 30, 2007 21:36:50 GMT -6
lol
let's throw the term "pop" and "comet" out there too just to make it fun
orr--it would make it simpler if all coaches used the same lingo
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Post by cmow5 on Dec 31, 2007 8:48:22 GMT -6
orr--it would make it simpler if all coaches used the same lingo Yes it would. Especially for new coaches like myself that are trying to learn the foreign language of football terminology. So, from now on if everyone could get on the same page and call everything the same thing that would be greatly appreciated.  |
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Post by coachorr on Dec 31, 2007 21:41:47 GMT -6
Especially when you consider how lost I am most of the time already. Just ask my wife  |
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 1, 2008 10:43:47 GMT -6
We ran double wing and had a rocket handoff play to a wing in motion. Most would call it jet I guess.
It all boils down to what you call it. There really is no difference.
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Post by coachorr on Jan 1, 2008 12:32:56 GMT -6
Larrymoe, do you run the half back pass out of that action? I have seen some DW teams do this and it really is a nice package.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 1, 2008 12:41:02 GMT -6
No we didn't. We had an option, a fb dive, a counter, and a reverse at one point out of rocket motion, but no halfback pass. Sounds intriguing.
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