This question REALLY needs an answer

I really think it depends on the situation. for exmaple the school I was at, if you went to elementary and middle school you could go to high school. there were no tests.

actually it depends on the school when it comes to the best and the brightest. many urban catholic grades schools minister to the poverty parts of town. I know it is that way in milwaukee. now your high schools could be different. pius is a blue collar cathoic high school while marquette, is associated with the U but is a more of prep school for all boys. higher dollar people send their kids there.

as for best and brighest also, bill gates is really smart but would you want him on your football team?

airman, i would want bill gates son on my team ....

can you say 'big booster'? lol


i don't care to get into this arguement but i will present the view of coaches that i've had discussions about:

* public schools have an attendance from which they get their players. transfers happen, but are not easily passed through the district committe or the governing body of athletics if a question arises.

* private schools do not have this attendance zone to deal with. students can essentially come from surrounding areas (which my overlap several different attendance zones)

it is this fact that seems to "scare" coaches at public schools. i am not taking sides, but merely pointing out that all those coaches i've talked to wish for is the same 'guidelines' from which to pull their kids.

Kind of an interesting point about "blue collar" Catholic school vs the "preppy" Catholic school. The Catholic school I went to growing up would be considered a mix of both but leaning slightly toward the blue collar end. But the town in general is blue collar. We did not recruit, but I hear another local Catholic school 30 miles away in a larger community did, especially for hoops.

The blue collar/prep comparison is good b/c so many times people only think of private schools as holier than thou etc. That is not always the case. I think we have to look at each school individually. For the record I coach at a public school.

And I second the notion that we need to make sure this thread stays factual and civil.

airman-

no, not how i percieve recruiting to private schools, would never compare you to a college type recruiter. guess i should have pointed that out. and no worries tog. me and airman like to argue alittle, but it is all good, he brings up some very valid points from as new perspective, and any time i can see a different side, it helps me learn.

me and airman are on opposite ends of the spectrum quite often, but he has my respect because i do believe he is a good coach. and in my book there is nothing wrong with defending what you believe in, he does it, and so do I. i do not take offense, and I certainly hope I do not offend, as no offense is intended at all.

i promise to not resort to any liar liar pants on fire type statements.

and no airman, i do not believe having an open house is bad. like i said i understand that privates have to recruit. you have to be able to keep the doors open. (in iowa privates recruit fairly heavily...more phone and in house type visits, commercials, newspaper ads etc. and not just coaches, admins too) i just wish the public schools could do the same, but again we get the kids we are dealt, and it is our job to make them better, even if it means that 2+2 = 5 (as long as they feel happy with their answer.)

you have made mention of milwaukee schools a ton air, and I am happy to know what I do, as I have relatives up that way and I will not be looking to go to a Milwaukee school!

I need to clarify one more thing. When I mentioned "recruiting" I am NOT accusing any coaches of illeagal recruiting. The private school that I mentioned is a top notch program with a classy group of coaches. I am privileged to play against them. They are simply at the point where they are just so good, and win so often, that people want to be a part of their success.

The recruiting is done by parents/youth coaches/ and boosters. It's not illeagal. It's fans being loyal to their team. I have the utmost respect for the private schools in general, and especially for those specific coaches.

I simply wanted suggestions to improve my retention rates.

Airman-

This is a hot issue in Iowa also at the moment. As a member of the FB Association Board of Directors I have been hammered with emails today due to minutes of last meeting where playoff advisory committee announced concern over to many private schools being in the playoffs (which was brought up by some coaches apparently). You might be shocked to know that my stance on this is that I will forward their concerns to the committe (the private school coaches concerns that is) and I will support them. I am not in favor of an all private league or championship. That would be like splitting the BCS Title in my opinion.

my wife teaches special ed
the kids they have with disabilities require a LOT of things and support
this costs major money

my one thing about all of this

keep in mind i am a strict capitalist and libertarian

to have a strong democracy, you must have strong public education

school choice will never be a viable option for certain kids in certain situations
i seriously doubt how that could ever be


now, how this affects privates vs publics on the football field, that is another question

I know what I think, but I did want to just chime in on the special ed thing. I can't see many private schools being able to cater to the needs of these kids like the bigger state run systems can. Not and do those kids justice.

off my tiny soapbox

here lies the difference in publics and privates. Publics lable their children. Privates do not lable their children.

argue for a childs limitations and they will achieve them. tell them they are LD and they will become LD. it is a proven phsycological fact.

he is another psychological fact, tell your lineman don't hold and they will hold. your subconsious mind does not here the don't part of the sentence. you hear basketball coaches tell their players don't reach and you will see a kid reach for the ball.

now when I think special ed, I think of mentally and physcially disabled. I think of kids who are need of adaptations and computers.

tell me a kid is add or adhd and I will as will the school tell you, he or she needs structure.

my sis is a add and adhd teacher. she is currently make a study as to why children with add or adhd can sit quitely and play video games for hours on end but when it comes to the classroom, they cannot seem to focuse.

give a kid a label and he or she will use it as their crutch.

say a child is in a wheel chair and they are their do to injury or even birth defect but are fine mentally. you will see those type kids in a private school setting.

I do know there is a % of the population which needs public special education and it is sad in some ways these dollars go to these kids when they could be spent on other children.

I know what I said is harsh but it is what socialized health care does. you only have x amount of public dollars and they go to those who will have the best chance of benefiting society.

think about that the next time you are in the voting booth and a politican tells you he wants to control your health care.
I am libertarian by the way.

so what is special ed in a private school? it is extra attension for readers who might not be fast or math students not doing well. in public school this would be title 1 math and reading.

here is the ? I have for all public school teachers. special ed is some thing which has grown since the 1980's. I remember there only being speach pathologist at my school for those who needed help. I am 39 by the way so I am dating myself.
where were all these special ed kids 20,30,40 or 50 years ago? there must have been some. now I realize the population of the united states have double snice 1965 so i will take that as part of the answer. still, there had to be a percentage prior to that.

If I were a child today, I know I would be drugged into submission by a public school. As my teacher told me, I am sure a bundle of energy. I was constantly up and out of my seat. I would have been labeled most likely adhd. in the end I was just a very curious boy.

so there is just a different mentality with publics and privates. I think this is why public schools teachers adn coaches see privates one way and those of us who have worked at them see it a different way.

i have been blessed to work at both. I will say I prefer the private schools for one very basic reason, respect is taught at a very early age. the teacher is seen as a authority figure and for the most part, parents still back the teacher at a private school.

I think the problem with respect at the public school is, the culture of fear. teachers are afraid of a lawsuit being brought aginst them. too bad schools are not like the gun manufacturing industry. the gun industry sticks together and has fened off lawsuits against their product. schools on the other hand have been bled by lawsuits.

no we would not have EMR students.

depending on the needs of a deaf child, we might or might not take them. however, if they have been brought up in the elementary and middle school they would then go to school at the h.s.

you are right you have to educate them bound by public law 142 I believe. I will say you also get short changed as the feds did not fully fund special ed.

i have long said a schools population should exclude these students when it comes to classification and playoffs.

when I lived up in st. paul mn, they had a school called humbolt. humbolt is where st paul at the time sent all their special ed students. about half of the schools population could not play sports but it counted against them for the longest time and they were in the city confrence and really did nto stand much of a chance.