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Post by 5straight on Jan 22, 2014 12:24:32 GMT -6
Coaches, wondering the ideal number of coaches for a Varsity HS staff ? Do you have each coach work on both sides of the ball
(O & D)?
In addition, how many lower level coaches do you have / need ? Soph (JV) & Frosh levels ?
The trend at the next 2 levels is to have a specific coach for every position. Is this ideal for HS or overkill ?
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 22, 2014 12:27:36 GMT -6
Ideally you want as many as possible that can get their job done. We have 6 paid coaches and 2 volunteers. The paid coaches coach an offensive and defensive position. The volunteers assist with drills and will take a position if a coach is late or cant make a practice.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards
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Post by dragons09 on Jan 22, 2014 12:33:46 GMT -6
I would say get as many as you can.Maybe not a coach for every position, but whatever you can get.
Last year, I has to coach both O and D lines.It seems if coaches do this, it sacrifices some quality and teaching time since you have to keep your eyes and head in both areas.
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Post by blockdownkickout on Jan 22, 2014 12:40:46 GMT -6
We are given one HC supplement and 6 assistant supplements for the entire program. Our varsity consists of the HC, 4 supplemented assistants and 1 volunteer. Everyone coaches on both sides except the volunteer who is a retired coach that just wants to coach WRs. Our JV has 2 supplemented coaches and 2 volunteers. Not to change the subject, but I have always felt we had the kids to platoon and this is the reason we can't.
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Post by bluboy on Jan 22, 2014 13:13:26 GMT -6
We have 1 head coach, 6 assistants, and 3 full-time volunteers(at practice every day). We also have 1 part time volunteer (he comes to practice when he can-coaches WR's). All of us coach a position on both sides of the ball.
The QB coach and 1 volunteer go to the Soph and JV games.
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Post by coach2013 on Jan 22, 2014 13:19:03 GMT -6
Coaches, wondering the ideal number of coaches for a Varsity HS staff ? Do you have each coach work on both sides of the ball (O & D)? In addition, how many lower level coaches do you have / need ? Soph (JV) & Frosh levels ? The trend at the next 2 levels is to have a specific coach for every position. Is this ideal for HS or overkill ? 1 unless each of the other guys is on the same page as that guy. |
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Post by jhanawa on Jan 22, 2014 13:36:22 GMT -6
We aren't anywhere close to what I consider a staff should look like. Our district provides 7 assistant stipends and the HC stipend. We aren't allowed to pay assistants with booster/tax credit/FB club monies. In order to be a top notch program, I think 8 coaches on varsity, 6 JV and 6 Frosh is the minimum.
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Post by windigo on Jan 22, 2014 14:35:57 GMT -6
I disagree with as many as you can. A team needs a leadership vacuum for players to fill. Too many officers and none of the enlisted will men stand up and take charge.
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Post by joelee on Jan 22, 2014 14:43:47 GMT -6
The ideal for me would be 12 coaches for a roster of a little over a hundred players. Too many players and they would be wasting their time. Too many coaches and they would be wasting their time. If you have a smaller school with a smaller roster then less coaches would be needed.
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Post by fantom on Jan 22, 2014 15:35:23 GMT -6
I disagree with as many as you can. A team needs a leadership vacuum for players to fill. Too many officers and none of the enlisted will men stand up and take charge. Couldn't disagree more. I don't expect our players teach technique. That's what coaches are for. |
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Post by kmiller716 on Jan 22, 2014 15:44:48 GMT -6
Being in two different states and coaching paradigms, I have battled with this.
4 coaches (including HC) when I was in NY. We coached Varsity only and had off/def duties.
10 coaches (including HC) in NC. We coach JV and Varsity and on one side of the ball.
I felt like we had a tighter staff with less in NY. We all knew each other EXTREMELY well, we all respected each other greatly and would have some great game planning sessions; offensive debates fueled by a defensive perspective and vice versa. We were like a family.
I feel like my experience in NC has alienated coaches more than it does build a strong working system. 1) we can hire 10, but it is hard as funk to find quality coaches who can get a teaching position. But hey we HAVE to find a coach for each position, so there is some settling to fill a spot on Varsity. 2) The staff turns into a "ours vs theirs". On game planning days we meet together for about 10-20% of the total time and the rest we are secluded in our rooms by offense and defense. Suggestions to the other side of the ball became opinions rather than input.
The question I ask myself frequently is whether or not it is better to coach 2 positions, have a smaller varsity staff and form a JV staff. I understand that you are taking energy and separating it, but if coach A is a tremendous coach and coach B is green, is it better to have Coach A coach two positions and Coach B get experience at a lower level. If Coach B wants it, he will work hard to prove he is a varsity coach and when the time is right, he is promoted. I felt as though I was a better coach because in my experience, I have coached multiple positions on both sides of the ball.
I know though that in a system where I coach all players in program (9-12), the younger crew has a greater potential to learn more from varsity coaches and make sure that what you are doing on Varsity is throughout the program. In NY we mainly focused on Varsity kids. Only been at one school in NC so maybe it was the way the program was lead, but in comparison to both of my settings, I guess I feel like I would take the smaller staff. The NY school was a respected and playoff program, where the NC was a brand new school when I joined.
It may get into not necessarily numbers but years worked together with looking at the turnover variable.
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 22, 2014 16:16:11 GMT -6
I disagree with as many as you can. A team needs a leadership vacuum for players to fill. Too many officers and none of the enlisted will men stand up and take charge. Couldn't disagree more. I don't expect our players teach technique. That's what coaches are for. I agree you can't have too many. There was a thread similar to this a couple years back and it got me checking out how many coaches were on staff of teams around my area. The vast majority of good teams have more coaches than you would think a high school team needs. One of the better teams around here had 16 coaches a few years ago, 8 were volunteers, but they aren't "come once a week" guys. They put in almost the same time as a paid coach. As long as each coach knows their role and are given duties to follow then the more the merrier. It's when you have coaches walking around with nothing to do is when trouble can happen. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards |
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Post by coachphillip on Jan 22, 2014 16:18:14 GMT -6
I don't have any qualms with coaching both sides. I prefer to. I want to have one coach for each position on defensive days. We have different coaches for DT, DE, ILB, OLB, CB, and FS. We also have a HC who runs the scout. 7-8 coaches is how much I would prefer on the varsity level. I've gotten by on four including the HC. But, you just want to make sure you have one guy to teach each different kind of skill set you use.
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Post by fantom on Jan 22, 2014 16:41:03 GMT -6
I don't have any qualms with coaching both sides. I prefer to. I want to have one coach for each position on defensive days. We have different coaches for DT, DE, ILB, OLB, CB, and FS. We also have a HC who runs the scout. 7-8 coaches is how much I would prefer on the varsity level. I've gotten by on four including the HC. But, you just want to make sure you have one guy to teach each different kind of skill set you use. I love coaching both sides of the ball. I have an unusual mix-OL and DBs-that lets me work with a pretty good percentage of the roster. Another thing that coaching both sides does is it cuts down on finger-pointing among the staff. I'm also the DC but if the offense is putting pressure on the defense by not scoring enough points or turning the ball over I can't say a word. Obviously, my OL isn't playing as well as it should. |
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Post by windigo on Jan 22, 2014 17:37:43 GMT -6
I disagree with as many as you can. A team needs a leadership vacuum for players to fill. Too many officers and none of the enlisted will men stand up and take charge. Couldn't disagree more. I don't expect our players teach technique. That's what coaches are for. Simple question what in the world made you think that my post had anything to do with players teaching technique? My post was about leadership and the necessity for there to be somewhat of a leadership vacuum. Address the point dont talk around it. |
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Post by fantom on Jan 22, 2014 17:40:48 GMT -6
Couldn't disagree more. I don't expect our players teach technique. That's what coaches are for. Simple question what in the world made you think that my post had anything to do with players teaching technique? My post was about leadership and the necessity for there to be somewhat of a leadership vacuum. Address the point dont talk around it. I didn't talk around a damn thing. Coaches coach and players play. If that's not clear enough for you feel free to ask for another clarification. |
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Post by windigo on Jan 22, 2014 17:48:22 GMT -6
Simple question what in the world made you think that my post had anything to do with players teaching technique? My post was about leadership and the necessity for there to be somewhat of a leadership vacuum. Address the point dont talk around it. I didn't talk around a damn thing. Coaches coach and players play. If that's not clear enough for you feel free to ask for another clarification. I'm not talking about players coaching. I'm talking about players leading. In my experience too many coaches and there isn't enough of a power vacuum for players to step up and lead. You might disagree. But address directly and not make some bogus strawman argument about players teaching technique. Without player leadership a team will never reach its full potential. |
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Post by fantom on Jan 22, 2014 17:56:26 GMT -6
I didn't talk around a damn thing. Coaches coach and players play. If that's not clear enough for you feel free to ask for another clarification. I'm not talking about players coaching. I'm talking about players leading. In my experience too many coaches and there isn't enough of a power vacuum for players to step up and lead. You might disagree. But address directly and not make some bogus strawman argument about players teaching technique. Without player leadership a team will never reach its full potential. I don't know how it is in your program but in our program all of the coaches coach. They all teach technique. We don't have anybody hanging around shouting slogans. I really don't understand your argument. |
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Post by blb on Jan 22, 2014 17:56:32 GMT -6
Ideal for me would be three Varsity, three JV, three Freshman.
But then we would have to have enough kids for three teams, too.
Every situation is different.
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Post by coach2013 on Jan 22, 2014 17:58:46 GMT -6
5 varsity ( allows hc to float)
2 jv (of those 5 on varsity)
2 frosh plus one varsity guy that floats down to help out now and again.
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Post by windigo on Jan 22, 2014 18:27:04 GMT -6
I'm not talking about players coaching. I'm talking about players leading. In my experience too many coaches and there isn't enough of a power vacuum for players to step up and lead. You might disagree. But address directly and not make some bogus strawman argument about players teaching technique. Without player leadership a team will never reach its full potential. I don't know how it is in your program but in our program all of the coaches coach. They all teach technique. We don't have anybody hanging around shouting slogans. I really don't understand your argument. What is there not to understand. You need a leadership vacuum for the natural leaders to stand up and lead. With too many coaches its hard for that vacuum to form. |
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Post by fantom on Jan 22, 2014 18:30:19 GMT -6
I don't know how it is in your program but in our program all of the coaches coach. They all teach technique. We don't have anybody hanging around shouting slogans. I really don't understand your argument. What is there not to understand. You need a leadership vacuum for the natural leaders to stand up and lead. With too many coaches its hard for that vacuum to form. I've been a part of some really good programs. I've never been a part of a good program that had a leadership vacuum. |
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Post by realdawg on Jan 22, 2014 19:13:45 GMT -6
HC plus 8 I think is ideal. I feel like you gotta have OC/DC whichever one the HC isn't. OL , RB, WR, TE (or 2nd OL guy if you don't have a TE.). DL, LB, and DB.
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Post by rhscoachbh on Jan 23, 2014 2:20:07 GMT -6
We'll have close to 85 guys on our roster and have 12 varsity coaches (JV/varsity practice together). Our frosh staff will have around 5-6. Out of varsity staff 9 will be on campus full time, 2 are subs in the district. Almost unheard of in California to have that many on campus. A ton of experience on the staff.
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fugulookinat
Junior Member
"Eye see DEAD people!"
Posts: 437
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Post by fugulookinat on Jan 23, 2014 11:24:41 GMT -6
We have around 200 players.
HC- Coaches no position group
I'm the DC and also coach no position group
OC- Coaches no position group
5 Defensive position coaches( 1 DE, 1 DT, 1 LB, 1 S, 1 C)
5 Offensive position coaches( 1 OL, 1 TE, 1 QB, 1 WR, 1 RB)
No sub-varsity coaches
We have a split practice where the Offensive staff will have the entire varsity and the Defensive staff will have the entire sub-varsity during athletic period(usually 14 5 minute segments). We will switch after school so Defense would take the varsity and Offense would take Sub-varsity(usually 18-22 5 minute segments). Next day defense would have varsity first, offense after school.
The practice format works well for us but I understand that not everybody gets a 2 hour athletic period every day. What I think works best is the fact that our sub-varsity players are coached by varsity coaches from their 9th grade year through their senior year. Our JV hasn't lost a game in years and that has established an expectation of winning when they are young and that has carried over to their varsty team.
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Post by coachbw on Jan 23, 2014 11:31:49 GMT -6
I have been on staffs ranging in size from 3 to 15. I think the magic number for me is between 6-9 depending on if the head coach/coordinators are working with positions. This is also assuming that you aren't coaching boths ways in which case I would think 4-5 would be about right. I can only speak for the situations that I have been in, but my experience has been that once you start getting to double digit staff sizes it is almost impossible to get everybody on the same page with all of the little details, and it seems like there is always some personality conflict brewing. I guess I would take the RIGHT 12 or 14 if I could find them, but I am now of the philosophy that I would rather have the right 6 man coaching staff than the wrong balance of 20.
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Post by mholst40 on Jan 24, 2014 1:08:52 GMT -6
We had a 55-man Varsity roster last season. It was also the first year we did a hybrid platoon, where most of our skill guys played on only one side of the ball with some exceptions. Our linemen practiced on both sides due to depth.
Our coaches (8 total)
HC/OC/AD: Full-time on campus at HS (receives a district stipend)
DC (me): Full-time off campus (receives a district stipend)
DL/OL: Full-time on campus (receives a district stipend)
DL/OL: Volunteer, Probation officer (paid by boosters)
LB: Volunteer, General Manager of Beverage Distributor (paid by boosters)
CB: Volunteer, Manger of restaurant (paid by boosters)
WR: Volunteer, in medical field (paid by boosters)
WR: Volunteer, college student (unpaid, former player whose college is on quarters system and coached 4 games for us before he had to leave for school)
We managed to juggle schedules that were ever changing. Nothing is ever perfect throughout the week.
A normal beginning to practice (which allows all coaches to get there for on the field position drills)...
2:30 - Meeting (game plan, film, etc., During certain days this time is used for lifting)
3:00 - Dress/set up field/Early Outs
3:20 - Warm Up
3:30 - Special Teams
3:50 - Indys (most coaches are here by this time)
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Post by Send_the_House on Jan 24, 2014 21:47:37 GMT -6
We have 12 for Varsity. I would love 12 more. I could put 6 more to work right now on defense alone. 1 can run the first scout team, and the 2nd could run the 2nd scout team, a 3rd could spot the ball, and a 4th could chart loafs, a 5th could signal my calls from the script from the sideline so that I could stand behind the defense during team, a 6th could hold up a copy of the scout notebook to the Defensive subs so they could see the play coming and watch their position more carefully...
I mean, why would I not want more coaches.
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