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Post by emptybackfield on Jan 15, 2014 9:44:46 GMT -6
it is interesting the responses on a coach's board..... Who's football program is it, though? Is it the University's or the players that chose to go to that school? Doing this in a high school is a different animal than doing it in a multi-million dollar DI program. What do you guys think happens after the second player reprimand, when the entire position group is held accountable? . Isn't there something much more productive a position coach could be doing than running the steps of Darrel K. Royal Stadium? like what? Maybe extra fundamentals or film work with the position coach at 5am. I know there are restrictions on stuff like this out of season, but I'd like to think there are better ways to hold coaches accountable than to have them running stadium steps.
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Post by fantom on Jan 15, 2014 9:48:58 GMT -6
Thought this was pretty awesome and I should share Players will attend all of their classes and sit in the front two rows of all of their classes. GAs, academic folks, position coaches will be checking constantly now. No headphones in class. No texting in class. Sit up and take notes. If a player misses a class, he runs until it hurts. If he misses two classes, his entire position unit runs. If he misses three, the position coach runs. The position coaches don't want to run. No earrings in the football building. No drugs. No stealing. No guns. Treat women with respect. Players may not live off campus anymore, unless they're a senior who hits certain academic standards. The University will buy out the leases for every player currently living off campus and put them in the athletic dorm. The team will all live together, eat together, suffer together, and hang out together. They will become a true team and learn to impose accountability on each other. The cliques are over. There's no time for a rebuild. "I don't have time for that." The expectation is that Texas wins now. Players will learn that they would rather practice than milk a minor injury. The focus is on winning and graduating. Anything extraneous to that is a distraction and will be stamped out or removed. Strong met individually with seniors and key leaders and re-emphasized that the plan is to win now. They can lead the new culture or be run over by it. "I don't want to talk about things. I'd rather do things. We just talked. Now it's time to do." I have a hard time believing that any coach could take issue with any of this. 6 AM running for missing classes is pretty normal. Making position coaches run is a little much but, as others have said, I doubt that it gets to that point. Everything there is designed to make kids better students and citizens. What's the problem?
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Post by emptybackfield on Jan 15, 2014 10:01:48 GMT -6
Thought this was pretty awesome and I should share Players will attend all of their classes and sit in the front two rows of all of their classes. GAs, academic folks, position coaches will be checking constantly now. No headphones in class. No texting in class. Sit up and take notes. If a player misses a class, he runs until it hurts. If he misses two classes, his entire position unit runs. If he misses three, the position coach runs. The position coaches don't want to run. No earrings in the football building. No drugs. No stealing. No guns. Treat women with respect. Players may not live off campus anymore, unless they're a senior who hits certain academic standards. The University will buy out the leases for every player currently living off campus and put them in the athletic dorm. The team will all live together, eat together, suffer together, and hang out together. They will become a true team and learn to impose accountability on each other. The cliques are over. There's no time for a rebuild. "I don't have time for that." The expectation is that Texas wins now. Players will learn that they would rather practice than milk a minor injury. The focus is on winning and graduating. Anything extraneous to that is a distraction and will be stamped out or removed. Strong met individually with seniors and key leaders and re-emphasized that the plan is to win now. They can lead the new culture or be run over by it. "I don't want to talk about things. I'd rather do things. We just talked. Now it's time to do." I have a hard time believing that any coach could take issue with any of this. 6 AM running for missing classes is pretty normal. Making position coaches run is a little much but, as others have said, I doubt that it gets to that point. Everything there is designed to make kids better students and citizens. What's the problem? I'm on board with 90% of it, I just think the coaches running and forcing 22 and 23 year old kids to live in the dorms is a little much as well. These are adults that can vote, buy cigarettes, go to strip clubs, buy beer, etc. Hell, some of them are probably engaged or married and living with females. Many are choosing not to comprehend what they read though and are taking me being against those two things as me disagreeing with the entire premise.
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Post by fantom on Jan 15, 2014 10:07:30 GMT -6
I have a hard time believing that any coach could take issue with any of this. 6 AM running for missing classes is pretty normal. Making position coaches run is a little much but, as others have said, I doubt that it gets to that point. Everything there is designed to make kids better students and citizens. What's the problem? I'm on board with 90% of it, I just think the coaches running and forcing 22 and 23 year old kids to live in the dorms is a little much as well. These are adults that can vote, buy cigarettes, go to strip clubs, buy beer, etc. Hell, some of them are probably engaged or married and living with females. Many are choosing not to comprehend what they read though and are taking me being against those two things as me disagreeing with the entire premise. They also have a right to pay for their own college education if they find the rules to be too harsh.
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Post by emptybackfield on Jan 15, 2014 10:11:09 GMT -6
I'm on board with 90% of it, I just think the coaches running and forcing 22 and 23 year old kids to live in the dorms is a little much as well. These are adults that can vote, buy cigarettes, go to strip clubs, buy beer, etc. Hell, some of them are probably engaged or married and living with females. Many are choosing not to comprehend what they read though and are taking me being against those two things as me disagreeing with the entire premise. They also have a right to pay for their own college education if they find the rules to be too harsh. Yes, you are correct. But that doesn't mean I can see it as being unnecessary and juvenile.
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Post by fantom on Jan 15, 2014 10:17:19 GMT -6
They also have a right to pay for their own college education if they find the rules to be too harsh. Yes, you are correct. But that doesn't mean I can see it as being unnecessary and juvenile. When players flunk out or get in legal trouble the coach is held accountable. It's easier to keep track of players if they're on campus. Is it unnecessary? We'll never know because there's no way to keep track of guys who DON'T get arrested. Is it juvenile? Maybe but these "adults" often act like juveniles. If a player is married coaches will normally allow them to live off campus.
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Post by brophy on Jan 15, 2014 10:26:55 GMT -6
I love that we're all on board for keeping the kids accountable, but when it comes to holding the position coaches accountable we collectively lose our {censored}
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Post by wingtol on Jan 15, 2014 10:31:15 GMT -6
Nuff said
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Post by bruinfb on Jan 15, 2014 10:31:45 GMT -6
I find it odd that earrings are at the same priority level as class attendance. Remember when Houston WR Torrin Polk was asked how his new coach John Jenkins compared to old coach Jack Pardee? Polk answered that Jenkins "Treats us like men, he lets us wear earrings"
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Post by emptybackfield on Jan 15, 2014 10:34:25 GMT -6
I love that we're all on board for keeping the kids accountable, but when it comes to holding the position coaches accountable we collectively lose our {censored}Who is doing that? I've said about 4 times in this thread that accountability isn't the issue. It's the ridiculous and petty manner that they're held "accountable." Is the threat of getting fired not enough? Is including bonuses into the coach's contract regarding class attendance and grades not "hard a$$" enough?
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Post by fantom on Jan 15, 2014 10:36:37 GMT -6
It's funny but I do have to point out that Hawkins got fired from that job.
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Post by brophy on Jan 15, 2014 10:51:10 GMT -6
I love that we're all on board for keeping the kids accountable, but when it comes to holding the position coaches accountable we collectively lose our {censored}Who is doing that? I've said about 4 times in this thread that accountability isn't the issue. It's the ridiculous and petty manner that they're held "accountable." Is the threat of getting fired not enough? Is including bonuses into the coach's contract regarding class attendance and grades not "hard a$$" enough? I suppose if you have to wait around until contract time to take punitive action, then you're already under water. You gonna fire your DL assistant in week 3 because you have a nose who repeatedly can't make it to class? Oh well, these guys are more than compensated for their trouble of making sure the kids they recruit mature and take advantage of the opportunities given to them. Better to come in with a hammer on this class than try to be their friend and have them stab you in the back down the road.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2014 10:58:24 GMT -6
I agree here, you want to get the most out of me as a position coach, then hire me. If I don't do my job, reprimand me, explain what/how I could do a better job, and if it happens again fire me. Don't run me like a player. Those days are over now, you wanna effect me and make me better, have a drastic impact on my bank account, not my waistline. I think that's the part most of us have a problem with. If he told me to run, I'd tell him to f@#k off and after he picked his a$$ up off the floor he could fire me...
May sound like big words, but most of us have some shred of pride I would think. I own a business, you know how many folks I'd have working for me if they had to go run bleachers every time they screwed up...NONE?! I think it's petty and a bit of a power grab. All the other stuff, with some exception to the on campus off campus thing I agree with. Like others have said the only issue I have with on campus and off campus is 1st that how is this not an NCAA violation paying the leases? I mean, regular students don't get that kind of treatment do they? 2nd. what about if said player is married? Imagine telling Chris Weinke that he and his wife and 2 kids have 2 move back into a dorm room?! Maybe there's exceptions to the rule, but I just think some of that is a bit over the top. The attendance all that other stuff, is great and will go a long way in changing the culture at UT.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2014 11:00:00 GMT -6
Imagine if the President ran the Washington D.C. this way...we'd have the baddest long distance running team in the Olympics and they'd all be politicians and bureaucrats!!!! Lol...
Duece
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Post by John Knight on Jan 15, 2014 11:10:39 GMT -6
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Post by brophy on Jan 15, 2014 11:12:26 GMT -6
Ultimately, it is Coach Strong's decision. The danger is thinking that THIS WAY is the only way or the needed way. Coaching is about control. It may be overboard, but Strong is at least doing what he can to control all the variables that would jeopardize his position as Texas Football CEO.
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Post by John Knight on Jan 15, 2014 11:13:59 GMT -6
I have see programs (college mind you) where rolling is punishment. They make them roll the length of the football field for every minute they are late or x number of times for missed class. Rolling. WTF??? I know it is punishment but really??
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Post by bruceeien on Jan 15, 2014 11:18:19 GMT -6
These rules of class attendance are straight from Urban Myer. He had the rule if you missed class 1st time you had study hall. On Friday night from 8-midnight. 2nd time whole position group on Friday night. 3rd time it was whole position group and the coach . He actually had a 4th time where the coaches wife and kids had to be there. Urban had all kinds of rules about asst coaches being interactive with their players. He would drill them in meetings and ask questions like what is their grades, what's their girlfriends name, their mama etc... Other rules were if the kids are lifting the coaches are lifting with them.
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Post by spreadattack on Jan 15, 2014 11:21:22 GMT -6
On the living off campus thing, I think it depends on the school. Louisville is a "city university," and if you live off campus you basically live somewhere in the city. Compare this to some of the Big Ten schools like Purdue or Penn State, where if you live off campus you're practically still at the school because the entire town is a prototypical college town.
I haven't spent a lot of time at UT but I imagine Austin is kind of inbetween. There's a great surrounding area to the campus but Austin is a big city too, and you want your players connected to the program. This is especially true since college is not like the NFL where the players can just spend all day 7 days a week at the football facility.
For what it's worth, I'd also bet that UT's athlete dorms are pretty nice.
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Post by coachbw on Jan 15, 2014 11:29:39 GMT -6
Like others have said, it's not a democracy. And if you're a position coach getting paid God knows what, I think you can find the time to take to check on your players in class and keep them in line. You're missing my point, too. You guys are creating straw man arguments. It's not the accountability, it's that the punishment seems rather non-constructive and juvenile. Isn't there something much more productive a position coach could be doing than running the steps of Darrel K. Royal Stadium? The WR coach's cardiovascular health isn't going to help the team win games. I don't think he is doing it as a punishment, I get the feeling that is in there to prevent the third time. I would say it is a preventative discipline policy. Not many college athletes that I know would want to suffer the aftermath of their position coach having to run.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2014 11:35:15 GMT -6
The other thing a lot of us are looking at this through the window that we woke up today and our boss walked in and implemented these rules. I know I did, and if so, I'd pack...right now. However these asst. coaches ACCEPTED the position they are in. They knew this going in, so to put the shoe on the other foot, maybe it isn't so unreasonable. However, I don't think I'd work for somebody like that. Again, I just think it's a bit overboard IMO. As far as being any rules from Urban Meyer, they aren't worth the paper they were written on much less the paper he wipes his a$$ with! That proof is in the pudding my friends!
Duece
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Post by treyjames on Jan 15, 2014 11:35:20 GMT -6
Anyone who has wacthed and followed the Texas program can see changes need to be made. I like the idea of changing the culture down in Austin. Texas teams have too much talent to look so bad on the field. Now its time to get a quality QB in place, since every other team in the country gets their QBs from this state. Some if it might be overkill, but its easier to start tough and relax a little than it is to crack down halfway through the year. Also, players can live off campus they just have to meet the requirements. I'm sure that married players will be allowed to live with their family.
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Post by dodson10 on Jan 15, 2014 11:52:04 GMT -6
I have see programs (college mind you) where rolling is punishment. They make them roll the length of the football field for every minute they are late or x number of times for missed class. Rolling. WTF??? I know it is punishment but really?? We did forward rolls and log rolls as punishment when I was in high school. My dad was a coach and he personally rolled me many lengths of the field. This and bear crawls was by far the worst punishment I had to personally do. It was definitely a deterrent for me to continue my poor behavior.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jan 15, 2014 12:43:06 GMT -6
These rules of class attendance are straight from Urban Myer. He had the rule if you missed class 1st time you had study hall. On Friday night from 8-midnight. 2nd time whole position group on Friday night. 3rd time it was whole position group and the coach . He actually had a 4th time where the coaches wife and kids had to be there. Urban had all kinds of rules about asst coaches being interactive with their players. He would drill them in meetings and ask questions like what is their grades, what's their girlfriends name, their mama etc... Other rules were if the kids are lifting the coaches are lifting with them. So at what point was Urban himself out there running?
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bigcroz
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Post by bigcroz on Jan 15, 2014 13:12:53 GMT -6
Guys, this is not about the running. But about accountability! Having spent 5 years in the US Army, which like these kids I signed on the line that is dotted of my own free will. There are plenty of things the military could do for punishment besides rake dirt, paint rocks, buff floors in the middle of the night, etc... Also the position groups will never allow a 3rd violation because group punishment moves the needle where it needs to be! It has worked that way in the military for many years.....that is indisputable!! No one likes it but it yields results. So get on board and row the way the captain says or jump ship...your option!
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Post by bruceeien on Jan 15, 2014 13:20:05 GMT -6
Not sure Chris. My buddy was the DL coach at UNLV when Mike Sanford took over straight from UTAH. They were in their 3rd week of spring ball anf he had spent every friday night with his players. It took most of the Spring to get the DL to class
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Post by adawg2302 on Jan 15, 2014 14:44:52 GMT -6
It is not about the running. It is about accountability and not letting someone on your team down (player, coach, etc...). I'd be shocked if it got to the point where a player missed his 3rd class and made his coach run. Your position coach is the one your usually closest too, and probably don't want to let down (teammates as well). I figure it would be easier to sit in class than it would be to face a pissed off position coach & pissed off teammates.
I like it all. And if you don't like it, quit or transfer. Easy as that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2014 15:27:32 GMT -6
These rules of class attendance are straight from Urban Myer. He had the rule if you missed class 1st time you had study hall. On Friday night from 8-midnight. 2nd time whole position group on Friday night. 3rd time it was whole position group and the coach . He actually had a 4th time where the coaches wife and kids had to be there. Urban had all kinds of rules about asst coaches being interactive with their players. He would drill them in meetings and ask questions like what is their grades, what's their girlfriends name, their mama etc... Other rules were if the kids are lifting the coaches are lifting with them. So at what point was Urban himself out there running? He couldn't, his acid reflux would act up too bad! Duece
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2014 15:29:37 GMT -6
Anyone who has wacthed and followed the Texas program can see changes need to be made. I like the idea of changing the culture down in Austin. Texas teams have too much talent to look so bad on the field. Now its time to get a quality QB in place, since every other team in the country gets their QBs from this state. Some if it might be overkill, but its easier to start tough and relax a little than it is to crack down halfway through the year. Also, players can live off campus they just have to meet the requirements. I'm sure that married players will be allowed to live with their family. It amazes me that in college football today, complacency still creeps in, even to the best of coaches. I'm sure Mack Brown had a high standard, I just can't see what he built there being any less than what Strong is asking, but maybe so...makes you wonder... Duece
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Post by shocktroop34 on Jan 15, 2014 17:35:49 GMT -6
Philosophically, I think that's his style and it will work for him. However, in most cases the AD has some influence on the coach's "5 whatevers." If things were getting loose, the AD might come in and say, 'tighten it up.' I'm sure there was a meeting of the minds on that. Many of us can remember how things unraveled for Bobby Bowden toward the end of his tenure. He even admitted to being to nice to his guys.
On the same token, it's not like Strong is avant garde. He's not breaking new ground. There are plenty of coaches and programs all over the country (both high school and college) doing such and then some. But because a D-1 head coach says he's doing it "this way," everyone goes bananas and runs home to write down their "5 whatevers."
If it works for the culture in Austin, and it fits his coaching style, then more power to him. If it doesn't work for you personally, then simply don't implement it.
My personal philosophy is that "rule restrict, but guidelines guide." I would rather have a handful of blanket guidelines and then handle each situation as it comes. That way I don't bind my own hands or handcuff the program. For example, the rule that everyone lives on campus: In my last year of D-1 football I was 28 years old, I was just out of the Marine Corps, and I had two kids. Now, if I played for Coach Strong, he would have to make an exception for someone like me (at least I would hope). I don't think he would break up a family or ask me to give up playing because I couldn't live on campus. Anyway, once you start amending one rule, players are going to look at that and question it. That's when you get the 'well what about me', or 'what about this or 'what about that.' It could all be very minor. But what if it's not. It has the possibility to create dissension.
At the end of the day, he has a lot of rules to uphold. Sometime you can spend more time and energy policing the program as opposed to advancing the program.
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