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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jul 12, 2006 10:11:23 GMT -6
I’d like some feedback on this one… 2 players- 1 junior, 1 senior. Junior will be a 1 way starter, senior is a returning all-state 2 way starter, captain and has division I aspirations. Junior’s oldest sister is being married in N. Carolina on the Sat. at the end of the first week of practice. Senior is dating Junior’s older sister (not one being married…). Both are going to the wedding on the Saturday before practice begins (so they can stay in a beach house for a week before the wedding). Therefore, they will miss two-a-days (11 practices, plus soap scrimmage). They will be here for 9 days of practice (minimum required by state to play). Since they start late, they have 2 days of no pads/no contact, and a third of no contact (state rule). They will begin to actually practice on Thursday, 8 days before the first game. We have had a rule regarding unexcused practices. Nothing like this has come up before. Typically, I can tolerate 3 days for an out of state weekend wedding. This is largely (probably completely) based on the travel plans made by the junior’s dad (father of the bride). What do you do (forget about it and play them, bench them, not let them play, not let them dress for the game, etc.) and why? By the way, I’ve pretty much made up my mind, but want to hear other input.
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Post by brophy on Jul 12, 2006 10:24:21 GMT -6
Therefore, they will miss two-a-days (11 practices, plus soap scrimmage). They will be here for 9 days of practice (minimum required by state to play). Since they start late, they have 2 days of no pads/no contact, and a third of no contact (state rule). They will begin to actually practice on Thursday, 8 days before the first game.
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Post by phantom on Jul 12, 2006 10:52:54 GMT -6
In the interest of preserving team unity and discipline I'd sit them. We had a similar situation a few years ago. Our All Amarican TB told us that he had to go to Chicago for a funeral and would miss several days of 2-a-days. It turned out that he made the trip with a buddy of his (nor a player) and rumors were flying that it wasn't a funeral but, well depends which rumor you were hearing. Since we had no proof that he'd lied, we let him play (hey, these scenarios are a lot easier when it's somebody else's All American). The season turned into a nightmare culminating with a senior boycott of practice before our eighth game. Every day was a crisis du jour. Going into the last game we had a chance to make the playoffs and the coaches were praying that we wouldn't so that we wouldn't have to spend one more day with that crowd. Fortunately, we learned from it and haven't had anything like it since. Just my opinion. Like I said, these decisions are easier when it's another guy's stud.
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Post by chiefscoach on Jul 12, 2006 11:00:36 GMT -6
In my opinion the senior has no excuse for going. Taking a trip to see a GIRLFRIENDS sister get married is not an excuse. And honestly and I may be the only one that feels this way but The senior would not be playing for me in the first game and I would seriously consider sitting the Junior although I'm not sure yet if I would.
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Post by coachtroy54 on Jul 12, 2006 11:09:22 GMT -6
Coach
I think that you need to dit these two players down and explain to them why they need to be at practice. If the senior has D1 in his eyes then benching him will only hurt his chances. If he can see it that way maybe he will change his mind and not go or maye way to get back for practice.
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Post by djwesp on Jul 12, 2006 11:15:21 GMT -6
Why did you include that they were all-staters and starters?
What does that matter?
Enforce the rules equally across the board. I'd bench them, in accordance with whatever your team rules already are.
The worst player on the team and the first player on the team need to be treated equally.
I would imagine, if faced with the consequence of bench the players would hold a grudge against you--- but you would be saving yourself a potential catastrophe later in the season when something else came up ... snowball effect
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Post by wingtol on Jul 12, 2006 11:15:59 GMT -6
Well thats a tough one. I'm not sure why the senior would be going and I would tell him that. As for the Junior thats a tough one. It is his sister, not his fault his dad made the arrangments. Not really sure how to handle that. But we always tell our kids to prioritize things in their lives: 1. God 2. Family 3. School 4. Football Kind hard to really discipline him for going to his sisters wedding. I think missing 9 days would be punishment enough. I know if our kids missed that much they would have a ton to catch up on when they got back regardless of how good a player they were and probably not be starting when they got back.
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Post by phantom on Jul 12, 2006 11:35:04 GMT -6
Well thats a tough one. I'm not sure why the senior would be going and I would tell him that. As for the Junior thats a tough one. It is his sister, not his fault his dad made the arrangments. Not really sure how to handle that. But we always tell our kids to prioritize things in their lives: 1. God 2. Family 3. School 4. Football Kind hard to really discipline him for going to his sisters wedding. I think missing 9 days would be punishment enough. I know if our kids missed that much they would have a ton to catch up on when they got back regardless of how good a player they were and probably not be starting when they got back. I'd agree if they were missing a couple of days for the wedding but this is really a 9 day beach vacation. And the idea that missing practice is it's own punishment blows me away. When the other guys are running gassers they'll be thinking of the other guy out on his boogie board.
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Post by phantom on Jul 12, 2006 11:36:40 GMT -6
Why did you include that they were all-staters and starters? What does that matter? Enforce the rules equally across the board. I'd bench them, in accordance with whatever your team rules already are. The worst player on the team and the first player on the team need to be treated equally. I would imagine, if faced with the consequence of bench the players would hold a grudge against you--- but you would be saving yourself a potential catastrophe later in the season when something else came up ... snowball effect It does matter because the argument will be made that you're punishing the whole team by benching the All State player.
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Post by brophy on Jul 12, 2006 11:39:56 GMT -6
good advice so far......we've dealt with folks going on family vacations and what not during camp and stuff, but like everyone has said, you have to remain consistent.
Devote that extra time to the kids that ARE there and minimize the time he is there. So are you looking at having 8 legitimate practices (2 weeks) with the TE when he gets back, or what? Definitely sit him the first game, though. Tow the hard line when they ask why he isn't starting...."good of the team / team rules".
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Post by djwesp on Jul 12, 2006 11:43:35 GMT -6
Why did you include that they were all-staters and starters? What does that matter? Enforce the rules equally across the board. I'd bench them, in accordance with whatever your team rules already are. The worst player on the team and the first player on the team need to be treated equally. I would imagine, if faced with the consequence of bench the players would hold a grudge against you--- but you would be saving yourself a potential catastrophe later in the season when something else came up ... snowball effect It does matter because the argument will be made that you're punishing the whole team by benching the All State player. Any time a player is benched you are punishing the team. Our players contribute equally. Without them we have no scout team, no starters, no depth... Part of growth is determining that your actions effect others. Treating the all state player differently than the 2nd string NT (or anyone else) creates an elitist environment. I do not care who your daddy is, I do not care how good you are or think you are, you will follow the rules of the team. I'll take the second string nose tackle, who shows up every day, works his butt off (even when he is less talented), makes good grades, and says "yes ma'am and no ma'am" any day over an athlete that would sacrifice his team for over a week at the beach.
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 12, 2006 11:46:49 GMT -6
Ok, heres my take...i break out the program priorities adn go over it with each kid...
first the junior.. faith- this marriage is indeed in the eyes of God...hes good there family- this marriage is his sisters wedding, hes got to go, no question...however, id make it clear that each absense regardless of reason requires make up conditioning...lets see,, two a days, thats 11practices at 1000 yards of bellies per miss(id excuse him for the day of wedding and thats it)...yeah, hes got a ton of bellies to do...why does he have to go up a week early? education- na football- hes missed out on 11 practices, got alot of making up to do before he can play. loss of playing time is a must simply because someone else IS PRACTICING. social life- seems to be a top priority or hed skip out on the week at the beach house and get back after the wedding for football.
then the senior...
faith- yup, its a religious event...but not his family, nor his wedding. family- na education- na football- obviously hes put football after his social life, all of his misses are unexcused to me. social life- seems to be his number one priority. ask him to explain.
anyhow, see this is why i make it clear to my kids... excused miss = 500 yards of "makeup conditioning" that way the kids have to make a decision...is it worth it? if they miss for an UNEXCUSED absence its 1000 yards of bellies per miss! only decision you have to make then is it unexcused? ... can tell you this, as a 15 year old my HC came down really hard on me for family "vacation" as he called it when we traveled to Conn to watch my Grandfather die of cancer...what a jerk.
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Post by djwesp on Jul 12, 2006 11:52:11 GMT -6
Ok, heres my take...i break out the program priorities adn go over it with each kid... first the junior.. faith- this marriage is indeed in the eyes of God...hes good there family- this marriage is his sisters wedding, hes got to go, no question...however, id make it clear that each absense regardless of reason requires make up conditioning...lets see,, two a days, thats 11practices at 1000 yards of bellies per miss(id excuse him for the day of wedding and thats it)...yeah, hes got a ton of bellies to do...why does he have to go up a week early? education- na football- hes missed out on 11 practices, got alot of making up to do before he can play. loss of playing time is a must simply because someone else IS PRACTICING. social life- seems to be a top priority or hed skip out on the week at the beach house and get back after the wedding for football. then the senior... faith- yup, its a religious event...but not his family, nor his wedding. family- na education- na football- obviously hes put football after his social life, all of his misses are unexcused to me. social life- seems to be his number one priority. ask him to explain. anyhow, see this is why i make it clear to my kids... excused miss = 500 yards of "makeup conditioning" that way the kids have to make a decision...is it worth it? if they miss for an UNEXCUSED absence its 1000 yards of bellies per miss! only decision you have to make then is it unexcused? ... can tell you this, as a 15 year old my HC came down really hard on me for family "vacation" as he called it when we traveled to Conn to watch my Grandfather die of cancer...what a jerk. Wow... you and I see eye to eye.
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Post by phantom on Jul 12, 2006 11:54:43 GMT -6
It does matter because the argument will be made that you're punishing the whole team by benching the All State player. Any time a player is benched you are punishing the team. Our players contribute equally. Without them we have no scout team, no starters, no depth... Part of growth is determining that your actions effect others. Treating the all state player differently than the 2nd string NT (or anyone else) creates an elitist environment. I do not care who your daddy is, I do not care how good you are or think you are, you will follow the rules of the team. I'll take the second string nose tackle, who shows up every day, works his butt off (even when he is less talented), makes good grades, and says "yes ma'am and no ma'am" any day over an athlete that would sacrifice his team for over a week at the beach. I didn't say I agree with treating players differently but that argument will be made. That's how tha player boycott that I mentioned happened. The TB's becavior got so bad that we benched him. The seniors said that we were throwing the game away. I agree that the players should be treated equally but you do have to be prepared to face that argument. You also have to be ready to explain it to the media.
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Post by djwesp on Jul 12, 2006 12:00:28 GMT -6
Any time a player is benched you are punishing the team. Our players contribute equally. Without them we have no scout team, no starters, no depth... Part of growth is determining that your actions effect others. Treating the all state player differently than the 2nd string NT (or anyone else) creates an elitist environment. I do not care who your daddy is, I do not care how good you are or think you are, you will follow the rules of the team. I'll take the second string nose tackle, who shows up every day, works his butt off (even when he is less talented), makes good grades, and says "yes ma'am and no ma'am" any day over an athlete that would sacrifice his team for over a week at the beach. I didn't say I agree with treating players differently but that argument will be made. That's how tha player boycott that I mentioned happened. The TB's becavior got so bad that we benched him. The seniors said that we were throwing the game away. I agree that the players should be treated equally but you do have to be prepared to face that argument. You also have to be ready to explain it to the media. I similar incident happened to us... we suspended four players, the first three games for lying about a vacation BUT, instead of a player boycott the teammates banded together and straightened out the troubled players on their own... after the team won 2 of the three games the players began to realize the importance of team and came down off their cloud. Minus our kicker, we even had to change our gameplan (go for two, not kick field goals, and take risks)-- it became apparent early to the team that their decisions effected each other greatly.
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Post by goldenbear76 on Jul 12, 2006 12:00:58 GMT -6
I'd say this to both of them. ..The Wedding is on Saturday. I'll give you Saturday and Sunday to go to that Wedding. Monday..you both better be here, or you can't play due to team policy.
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Post by groundchuck on Jul 12, 2006 12:07:18 GMT -6
I’d like some feedback on this one… 2 players- 1 junior, 1 senior. Junior will be a 1 way starter, senior is a returning all-state 2 way starter, captain and has division I aspirations. Junior’s oldest sister is being married in N. Carolina on the Sat. at the end of the first week of practice. Senior is dating Junior’s older sister (not one being married…). Both are going to the wedding on the Saturday before practice begins (so they can stay in a beach house for a week before the wedding). Therefore, they will miss two-a-days (11 practices, plus soap scrimmage). They will be here for 9 days of practice (minimum required by state to play). Since they start late, they have 2 days of no pads/no contact, and a third of no contact (state rule). They will begin to actually practice on Thursday, 8 days before the first game. We have had a rule regarding unexcused practices. Nothing like this has come up before. Typically, I can tolerate 3 days for an out of state weekend wedding. This is largely (probably completely) based on the travel plans made by the junior’s dad (father of the bride). What do you do (forget about it and play them, bench them, not let them play, not let them dress for the game, etc.) and why? By the way, I’ve pretty much made up my mind, but want to hear other input. If they are not at practice how can you evaluate them? If you cannot evaluate them how can they play ahead of players who have been there? I have always tolerated a Friday-Saturday for the wedding if it is out of state/long ways away but a week? To me that is the kid or parents trying to pull a fast one. No player bigger than the team. That being said you hate to cut off your nose to spite your face. You could make them make up the conditioning, every last yard of it before you will allow them to dress let alone play.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 12, 2006 12:10:02 GMT -6
Great dilema. The correct answer here is to simply quit coaching football, and only coach golf:)
I think what we see more and more is that regardless of the "team-centered" priority heirarchy set for your players, the players are minors and must yield to the more "me" centered priority heirarch set by the P A R E N T S. This heirarchy is MUCH more flexible, in fact, it probably changes on a daily basis to fit the parents whim:)
What makes this situation in more sticky is that Bluto is at a small school (right?) I can see disaster with EITHER decision.
PAY ATTENTION YOUNG COACHES OUT THERE...THIS IS A GREAT LEARNING EXPERIENCE. COVER situations like this in parent meetings. EXPLAIN TO THE PARENTS IN SIMPLE STUPID terms that this is a TEAM, and their parental actions and decisions affect the TEAM.
Other than that, I would say the most important thing ISN'T your decision as to punish,sit, ignore. It is whether or not you can get the entire team to buy into the fact that you would make the EXACT same decision if it were different players.
My solution is simply no person (player,coach,parent,administrator) above team, no team above the program. Guys, you are at the bottom of the depth chart..ESPECIALLY the Sr. He is choosing a vacation. Wedding irrelevant. For him, its a vacation.
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Post by knight9299 on Jul 12, 2006 12:13:03 GMT -6
The junior is excused the day before, the day of, and the day after the wedding. It's a family event HE SHOULD be there. The senior, not so much. I think this All Stater is thinking he's king of the hill and can do what he pleases. He's not excused and in my case wouldn't play until he put in as many days of practice as the rest of the team. Which means he would get to play the second game. Period. If the junior follows suit, same deal.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jul 12, 2006 12:13:19 GMT -6
Why did you include that they were all-staters and starters? What does that matter?
I am glad you asked that. It makes no difference to me. In fact, it may emphasize the point more with our team since they are who they are. Like phantom said, our kids (other captains who decide the issue with coaches) are split. And I asked them what would you do if it were (bad soph.) or (bad frosh.)?
My take is this: we sit them- I could guarantee we lose... might be our worst loss in 20 years. We play them- we may win (doubtful, but have a shot... they are projected pre-season #3... we will be in the lower half of the top 10)... winning that game in my mind would cost us the season.
A bear either way, but by sitting them we have a chance. Playing them is the beginning to the end of our season and our tradition.
Update: Dad of the junior called and is pissed and threatening me (funny thing, he's the town doctor)... including but not limited to going over my head (another funny thing... the superintendent called... he already did). He said that HE made the plans and if I have a problem I need to talk to him. We will talk on Friday.
1. God 2. Family 3. School 4. Football
We have that on page 2 of our parent handbook. This is something that only applies to everyone else's kid.
I basically told our captains-and these two kids this: (we made our goals at camp about a month ago, win district, playoffs, etc... we have been in the playoffs since 1988. Nothing like this has ever happened in that time). "It is my job to work for you guys. It is my job to help you accomplish what you want to accomplish. Everything we do is to make you better; to help you reach your goals. If you do not follow through, it is my job to hold you accountable so you can reach your goals. If you do not want to be held accountable, CHANGE YOUR GOALS. Let's put Goals= 1-7, win a district game. I'd much rather be tearing around the country on the Harley chasing biker chicks than here in the weightroom, running conditioning, going to 7 on 7... I do this because I am committed to you and I will not cheat you guys. But, if you are willing to cheat yourselves, there is not much I can do... I'm out of eligibility.
That's basically what I said... (except for the biker chick part) we'll see what the captains think by tomorrow.
I do understand the junior's dilemma... it is his sister. The senior... well his girlfriend is hot, and I certainly see why he wants to go... but I can not justify it.
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 12, 2006 12:17:11 GMT -6
Why did you include that they were all-staters and starters? What does that matter? Enforce the rules equally across the board. I'd bench them, in accordance with whatever your team rules already are. The worst player on the team and the first player on the team need to be treated equally. I would imagine, if faced with the consequence of bench the players would hold a grudge against you--- but you would be saving yourself a potential catastrophe later in the season when something else came up ... snowball effect It does matter because the argument will be made that you're punishing the whole team by benching the All State player. interesting view but id bet the kids wont see it that way, also its certainly not a punishment to the kids that get to fill their shoes...two kids THAT DONT WANT TO PLAY VERY MUCH will sit while 3 new ones THAT ARE DYING TO PLAY will fill their shoes. the team will probably embrace the kids that are working hard...(course if they suck then probably not)...true story, we had a kid who was all world, all everything as a football player..but he was all universe all everything in hockey...he misses our last practice of the season for hockey tryouts, the night before our last game of the season (we were undefeated and expected to finish that way with or without him!), i brought the coaches in and said "he shouldnt play based on policy but i dont want to punish the team by losing our shot at being undefeated"...didnt want to punish me ego either obviously...my coaches were split on what to do...then i brought in my captains. I told them that team policy is that the boy doesnt play but wanted to let them know that it was going to be their call because i knew going undefeated was important to them...I WAS SHOCKED THAT THE 3 CAPTAINS SAID " HE DOESNT PLAY, HE SKIPPED PRACTICE TO GO TO HOCKEY". sometimes kids will surprise you.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jul 12, 2006 12:29:02 GMT -6
I missed a few while I was typing:
Great dilema. The correct answer here is to simply quit coaching football, and only coach golf:) Yes... except I don't golf.
Coachcal... we have "Reminders- 200 yds. of Sprints with 10 updowns every 10 yds. They would both do them... they are hard workers.
here's the thing... I'm mad at the kids, but they didn't really know what they were getting in to re: travel arrangements. The junior is kind of a goof, but he is working hard and did a great job at camp, and had not missed any conditioning.
The senior is one of the best kids (people) I have ever coached. The fact that he is a great athlete helps, but he's just a great kid. His family doesn't have much, he's dating the rich, hot girl.... who took him to the final 4 in Indy this year and to Florida last year (btw, the girl is a pretty good kid too). I think that he really does not want to go, but since this other family has paid for it, he feels obligated. I think he feels like no matter what he does, he will be letting someone down (teammates/me or her family).
I am really considering taking up drinking again... This would be easy if we had a clear rule. For us, 1 unex.= miss game, 2=miss 2 games 3= stuff turned in. They told me now, the family is behind this- not the kids. Next year I will put in a "wedding limit" in our handbook.
Anyway, I still think it is right to sit them, but I'm going to let the captains have a big say in this.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jul 12, 2006 12:35:12 GMT -6
PAY ATTENTION YOUNG COACHES OUT THERE...THIS IS A GREAT LEARNING EXPERIENCE. COVER situations like this in parent meetings. EXPLAIN TO THE PARENTS IN SIMPLE STUPID terms that this is a TEAM, and their parental actions and decisions affect the TEAM.
Good point CoachD... we do cover this in our August meeting... both of these guys know our rules, parents do too. But it is hard reason with one "above the program" (parents... not the kids).
Anyway, thanks all for the perspective... any more suggestions still appreciated.
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Post by shakdaddy3 on Jul 12, 2006 13:11:37 GMT -6
After reading through this I am disapointed a bit. Why? Mainly dealing with the senior, most coaches on here said that he has no reason to go or he is putting his social life ahead of football. Even before finding out his specific situation (dating hot, rich girl, not rich himself/family wise, and her family is like his family) I felt that there is reason for him going. For this kid, for all we could have known and somewhat know now, this girlfriend and her family have welcomed the senior into their family thus making this a quasi-family occasion for him. However, since he is a senior, an All-State and I'm guessin he would have been or is a captain [at least looked upon as a leader by the team] he should know that this is a make or break season where missing 1 game could effect him and the team greatly.
1 week for a wedding, whether it is family or not, seems rediculous and I blame the parents for part of this situation [especially with how the dad is reacting]. The parents need to realize that their family plans are not greater than the teams' plans... I mean, if their kid wasn't a starter or whatever and another parent's kid that started had scheduled their kid for a week vacation while ur kid is busting a$$, wouldnt they be mad when the vacationer came back and was starting? The answer is yes. I think you need to make the parents think long and hard about how this looks to the team, players, and other families that are a part of the whole program.
Finally, some blame is on the coaching staff for not setting guidelines to the parents for certain dates that should not be missed. I am not saying that you ignored this whatsoever, but now you'll learn from this experience and see that a schedule needs to be set long before the season and given to the parents and players with rules stating that these dates should be avoided for vacationing at all costs. There are some instances that are more serious [death in the family], still, where that is impossible... as coaches, we have to remember compassion for the players because they do have lives outside of football. and as coaches we have to help them realize there are few reasons to not be able to practice especially at a critical point in the season such as the whole entire intro...
sorry, kind of long and all. hope it helps and makes sense. this is one of those "put yourself in the other person's shoes" situations for practically everyone.
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Post by cqmiller on Jul 12, 2006 13:26:09 GMT -6
If they have BOTH been in the program for AT LEAST 2 years...
They (AND their parents) should know the team rules. Therefore, WHOEVER was paying for the airfare, hotels, house, or whatever should have asked what days the players would be available.
Then the players/parents of the players should have come to the HC and explain the situation, and come up with a solution BEFORE THE MONEY WAS PUT UP FOR THE WEEK LONG EVENT.
I would probably excuse them for the 2nd practice on friday (so they could fly to NC), as well as any Saturday practices that they would miss on the day of the wedding. THAT IS ALL!! They are excused for the WEDDING, NOT TO PARTY FOR A WEEK!
Sit them both if they miss more than that.
I totally agree with poeple above who have said that IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY WERE STARTERS, ALL-STATE, or whatever...If anything, those players should be the ones who are the example to the people who do not start, or aspire to be all-state, that THIS is the way you do it...by sacrificing personal things for the good of the team! i.e. - giving up a weeks vacation for the team.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jul 12, 2006 13:31:40 GMT -6
Finally, some blame is on the coaching staff for not setting guidelines to the parents for certain dates that should not be missed. I am not saying that you ignored this whatsoever, but now you'll learn from this experience and see that a schedule needs to be set long before the season and given to the parents and players with rules stating that these dates should be avoided for vacationing at all costs.
You are right... specific guidelines are not really in place, but here is what we have: 1. ATTENDANCE IS MANDATORY AT ALL PRACTICES, MEETINGS AND GAMES.... a.b.c discuss practice times, necessity for practice:
d. We would also like to emphasize that responsibility is important. You must be committed, responsible and courteous enough to gain clearance for a missed practice by speaking with the head coach prior to practice. failure to do so will result in a one game suspension.
my take: They did not gain clearance (this is all future tense). they are going, but I did not OK a day let alone an entire week. they said they were going to be gone all week. i said "it is not excused"... that's when the fun began.
parent's take: not real sure, but he is citing our value of #2"family" over our value of #4"football" (God, family, school, football).
I will admit, after many years here, we have assumed a lot of things. It is a small school in a small town... some things are simply taken for granted, which is MY fault entirely.
The schedule was given to the players in mid April... the problem is... I think you need to make the parents think long and hard about how this looks to the team, players, and other families that are a part of the whole program. this dad just doesn't care.
One thing I have always tried to do, is keep our rules general and adaptable: (ex.) 9. DISCIPLINE: All discipline will be handled by the coaching staff.
I agree with a lot you said sd3... but I'll be honest... I've reached a lot of my own personal goals in coaching... if I have to put out a 256 page casebook including every conceivable parental stupidity... then I'm going to find a job that pays more with less headache... (night manager at 7-11 maybe).
Here is another thought... by considering what to do am I wilting under pressure... or am I trying to really be fair to these kids (dad I could care less about)? it seems pretty clear to me- they miss- they don't play.
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Post by bulldog on Jul 12, 2006 13:46:34 GMT -6
This would not really be a problem for me . . . we have a team rule - 3 unexcused missed practices and they are off the team. The junior would be invited to come back the next year. I would excuse the junior for the day before and the day of his sister's wedding. The rest would be unexcused absenses. I would not make an exception in this case for the senior, nor would I compromise the rules. I guarantee this would never be an issue going forward. You have to remember that you only have credibility with the kids if you have fair rules and enforce them fairly. Rationalizing decisions 'for the good of making playoffs' teaches elitism and that winning is more important than doing what is right. It wouldn't be hard for me since I have no problem understanding that is THEIR decision to skip the practices. The same would go for any player that scheduled vacation during our practices.
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Post by djwesp on Jul 12, 2006 14:05:26 GMT -6
[quote author=senatorblutarsky board=general thread=1152720683 post=1152732700 I think you need to make the parents think long and hard about how this looks to the team, players, and other families that are a part of the whole program. this dad just doesn't care.
[/quote]
A player, whose father was ironically a doctor, decided that he would skip out on punishment for skipping a class.
The player was punished, more severely (mmmm....bear crawls) for failing to participate in his punishment.
The father took this over the HC's head, and we immediately removed the player from the team.
What happened? The boy took his quarrel up with the father (the reason he got the boot). The father apologized, as well as the son, and the player was reinstated.
You can not have a player in the locker room if his father is attempting censure against you. Especially in a small town, this will become a bigger problem than disciplining them for missing a week of practice ever could be.
Our players and parents are given a chain of command. Captains, assistants, coordinators, HC, AD, administration.... if they do not follow that, they are removed from the team.
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Post by optionguy on Jul 12, 2006 14:21:14 GMT -6
Touchy situation: (1) you have your team to consider, meaning you have to enforce your rules; (2) you have to take into account this particular situation; and (3) you realize that HS students have to do what their parents tell them.
My solution is to enforce your rules, i.e., they sit, AND they have to win back their starting positions. Sit them and tell them and their parents that they are now at the bottom of the depth chart and will have to earn their playing time.
When you speak w/the parents about this decision, make sure your coaching staff is present (and in agreeance w/you) and, if necessary, have your principal w/you.
(I had a similar situation occur to me when I coached and the above is what I did. My principal at the time backed me 100% and was present during my meeting w/the parents and students; it helped that he was a former football coach. Also, as a school administrator myself, at the present, I would back my coach in such a situation.)
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Post by cqmiller on Jul 12, 2006 14:23:18 GMT -6
this dad just doesn't care. If the father doesn't care, then he shouldn't care about you suspending his son for 1 game. If he does, then explain to him that you would choose family NEEDS over football, but a week's worth of vacation BEFORE the actual wedding, is just using the wedding as an excuse to party and not be responsible for missing AN ENTIRE WEEK OF PRACTICE. You are already giving them 1 friday practice, as well as all day saturday EXCUSED Here is another thought... by considering what to do am I wilting under pressure... or am I trying to really be fair to these kids (dad I could care less about)? it seems pretty clear to me- they miss- they don't play. I totally agree...just go with your gut. I would rather lose a game by MY rules, then to "wilt away" my rules, and win a game. It will be a VERY STRONG MESSAGE to both players if you WIN WITHOUT THEM, that you do not NEED them to win, but the people that have sacrificed their personal lives to be with the group can accomplish the same things with OR without you. This is something I have personal experience with... My senior year of high school, I was an all-state QB, and my team was undefeated, ranked #2 in the state. After we beat the other undefeated team in our league (#1 in the state), I went out and did something STUPID...won't go into details because it is unimportant...the important thing was that I did something for Personal reasons, which put the team's goals in jeopordy. I was suspended from school for a week and could not play in the next game. I had to watch the game from the street above the football field because I could not be on school grounds while serving my suspension. I had to Watch my teammates win a game that I SHOULD HAVE BEEN PLAYING IN. It is a lesson I will carry with me the rest of my life...
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