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Post by blb on Dec 20, 2013 9:49:03 GMT -6
Our state association is instituting new restrictions on practices, i.e. only one "collision" practice a day during Pre-Season and two a week during the season.
A "collision" practice is one where there is full speed contact between any number of players either in drills or scrimmage, even if tackling is not done to the ground.
Any of you with experience under similar regulations have any suggestions on adapting, especially on what to do during practice where only contact can be against shields, dummies, and-or sleds?
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Post by rystaylo on Dec 20, 2013 10:16:16 GMT -6
what state is this?
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Post by newhope on Dec 20, 2013 10:20:59 GMT -6
Does collision include using dummies?
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Post by joelee on Dec 20, 2013 10:21:45 GMT -6
That's pretty much what we did this year on our own. We went 14-0. Didn't seem to bother us.
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Post by blb on Dec 20, 2013 10:25:01 GMT -6
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Post by blb on Dec 20, 2013 10:27:00 GMT -6
That's pretty much what we did this year on our own. We went 14-0. Didn't seem to bother us.
I'm sure somebody in our state will go 14-0 too in spite of the restrictions.
Thanks for the help.
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Post by cqmiller on Dec 20, 2013 10:27:25 GMT -6
If "collision" is just full-contact practice... then we already do that as well. We basically never are full-go unless it is very early in the season.
More indy stuff and less team... just gotta actually coach and not watch them run plays all practice long
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Post by blb on Dec 20, 2013 10:30:53 GMT -6
More indy stuff and less team... just gotta actually coach and not watch them run plays all practice long
We do 20 minutes of Indy (plus 15 minutes of Specialties and 15-20 of Group) each practice and we coach the he11 out of them all the time so we win more than three most years, smart guy.
Got any bright ideas on HOW to do Indy and coach when you can't hit except for shields, dummies, and-or sleds?
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Post by rsmith627 on Dec 20, 2013 10:38:25 GMT -6
If "collision" is just full-contact practice... then we already do that as well. We basically never are full-go unless it is very early in the season. More indy stuff and less team... just gotta actually coach and not watch them run plays all practice long
We do 20 minutes of Indy (plus 15 minutes of Specialties and 15-20 of Group) each practice and we coach the he11 out of them all the time so we win more than three most years, smart guy.
Got any bright ideas on HOW to do Indy and coach when you can't hit except for shields, dummies, and-or sleds?
Pretty sure he was just trying to help coach. You're strictly limited to just shields? You can't go shells and just wrap in team time? As far as stuff for the linemen goes, you can absolutely still work their technique against shields. I do this even on full contact days and it works out just fine. For your full contact, full padded days, I would just make sure those are your heavy team emphasis days. So, if you aren't 2 platoon: Monday: Heavy individual emphasis against shields (probably majority of practice) I'd get my heavy conditioning in on these days as well. Tuesday: Full contact (Strong team O emphasis) Wednesday: Heavy individual Thursday: Full contact (Strong team D emphasis) As I typed this I realized I would probably switch my full contact days with my indy days, just to not go hard on Thursday before a game, but some coaches swear by going heavy on the day before a game to keep from coming out flat. Up to you on how you do it.
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Post by blb on Dec 20, 2013 10:48:04 GMT -6
We do 20 minutes of Indy (plus 15 minutes of Specialties and 15-20 of Group) each practice and we coach the he11 out of them all the time so we win more than three most years, smart guy.
Got any bright ideas on HOW to do Indy and coach when you can't hit except for shields, dummies, and-or sleds?
You're strictly limited to just shields? You can't go shells and just wrap in team time?
"It is a collision practice even if players do not execute full-speed tackles at a competitive pace that takes players to the ground."
Again, to re-state (apparently I wasn't clear in OP) - during Two-a-Days, there can only be full-speed Player-to-Player contact at one practice, and In-Season, twice a week. The others contact can only be against shields, dummies, and-or sleds.
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Post by rsmith627 on Dec 20, 2013 11:19:35 GMT -6
You're strictly limited to just shields? You can't go shells and just wrap in team time?
"It is a collision practice even if players do not execute full-speed tackles at a competitive pace that takes players to the ground."
Again, to re-state (apparently I wasn't clear in OP) - during Two-a-Days, there can only be full-speed Player-to-Player contact at one practice, and In-Season, twice a week. The others contact can only be against shields, dummies, and-or sleds.
Coach, during 2 a days our rules are the same way. We use the non-padded time to get a lot of our special teams stuff installed. As said, if you want full team full contact scrimmage, just make sure you go heavy with that on the days that you can.
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Post by blb on Dec 20, 2013 11:29:02 GMT -6
r, how do you practice Special Teams if you can't hit - can't protect on Punts or PAT-FG, block on KOR-PR, or tackle on coverage?
Do you do all your Kicking Game vs. Air?
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Post by larrymoe on Dec 20, 2013 11:30:26 GMT -6
More indy stuff and less team... just gotta actually coach and not watch them run plays all practice long I couldn't find an eye roll smiley.
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Post by rsmith627 on Dec 20, 2013 11:33:35 GMT -6
r, how do you practice Special Teams if you can't hit - can't protect on Punts or PAT-FG, block on KOR-PR, or tackle on coverage? Do you do all your Kicking Game vs. Air? We practice live on the days where we can, but initial install we will do on air. We don't necessarily like it, but it's a way to use your time and still stay in the rules. We will install kickoff, kick return, PAT. Punt and punt block we wait until we can go live.
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Post by blb on Dec 20, 2013 11:38:18 GMT -6
r, how do you practice Special Teams if you can't hit - can't protect on Punts or PAT-FG, block on KOR-PR, or tackle on coverage? Do you do all your Kicking Game vs. Air? We practice live on the days where we can, but initial install we will do on air. We don't necessarily like it, but it's a way to use your time and still stay in the rules. We will install kickoff, kick return, PAT. Punt and punt block we wait until we can go live.
Okay, I can see that (we have installed versus Air first three No Pad days in past too).
Now THAT was helpful.
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Post by rsmith627 on Dec 20, 2013 11:41:11 GMT -6
Probably not helpful, but the other option is to just disregard the rules like most around here do.
Other things we have done early on are just play walkthrough. It is pretty valuable for the linemen to just run against shields and learn where they're supposed to be going. Defensive players can still drop into their zones and get to their run fits, etc. Mental reps are just as useful as contact sometimes.
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Post by cqmiller on Dec 20, 2013 11:43:02 GMT -6
blbWhich is why I was saying you have to replace hitting the running back during a team period, with hitting a dummy in the same situations but within a group/indy period. If you have 10 OL (2-deep) then setup a drill where you have 2 of your guys holding heavy bags as DL (D), 1 guy with a shield as a LB (L), and then the 3 OL working on a doubleteam and trap/kickout concept (power-o, counter, type plays). ...................L .......................D....DE .................1...2...3 Explain that this is working the double team of a DL to the LB inside of him by 2 of them (#2 & #3), along with practicing a kickout by a pulling center/guard/tackle (#1). Phase 1 - Double and Kickout in ideal world: 1) Have #2 and #3 engage (full-speed) the dummy being held by D. Have D fight hard into it just like a DL is supposed to. Try to drive him into L. 2) Have the #1 do his pull-steps and attack tight off that double team with "head in the hole" and kickout the Dummy being held by DE. Have DE just sit there and give resistance at contact with the dummy. Phase 2 - Double and Kickout with LB scraping over top and DE squeezing down (probably what most DC's are gonna have their kids do) 1) Everyone does exactly what you did in phase 1... 2) #2 and #3 probably have a call of some kind indicating which one comes off on that LB when he goes over the top. Ours is "High" which tells the #2 to work head to outside of D, and #3 will work vertical to get outside shoulder of the L. 3) Have the DE walk inside with the dummy and close that gap... make #1 "open the hole" by bringing his hips and feet more than he did in phase 1 Phase 3 - Double and Kickout with LB coming underneath and DE screaming inside (aggressive defense trying to get safety to make play on edge by getting your RB to bounce 1) Everyone does exaclty what they did in phase 1... 2) #2 gives "Low" call, making the doubleteam become a down-down "wash 'em down" 3) DE really try to squeeze that hole closed and have the #1 just stop his momentum with huge contact and let the washers inside open the hole for him. Everything is still 100% full go, simulating game contact/speed (if your guys holding shields and dummies go 100%), but you are not getting the helmet to helmet or helmet to shoulderpad contact the rule is trying to avoid. Doing this drill enough times for all 10 kids to do each position and do all 3 phases is going to triple the indy/group time you need which cuts out that team period that the rule is cutting out. Not being a smart @$$... I just know that many assistant coaches like team because it is really almost no coaching by anyone except the OC/DC unless VERY structured by the OC/DC with specific jobs for each position coach based on script. While each position coach having to understand, create, design, and coach up specific drills is harder for them to do... I've had assistants ask me "how can we teach tackling without hitting each other?"... my response... "95% of tackling is done before or after contact... how about you work on that 95%" and we can worry about the 5% on the 1 day (or whatever) we are allowed.
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Post by blb on Dec 20, 2013 11:46:05 GMT -6
Probably not helpful, but the other option is to just disregard the rules like most around here do. Other things we have done early on are just play walkthrough. It is pretty valuable for the linemen to just run against shields and learn where they're supposed to be going. Defensive players can still drop into their zones and get to their run fits, etc. Mental reps are just as useful as contact sometimes.
No, I meant it. Was an actual practical suggestion.
My concern for example is how to teach defensive players block protection and tackling hitting only sleds or shields?
And I don't like OL blocking shields and sleds too often - not realistic.
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Post by realdawg on Dec 20, 2013 12:04:15 GMT -6
Coach-you can have 1 full contact practice every day during preseason right? So during 2 a days (which we dont have). Make sure you get in all the stuff you need to be live for in that one practice. Do all your full contact drills, do all your team scrimmages, and all your live kicking situations you think are necessary. In the other non contact practice focus on installing new plays, walk through, and indy drills that do not require contact. The in season limitations would not be a big deal for us either. He is how we do it. Monday is a big install/game plan/walk through day. We do alot of indy time, and do all our non contact drills. We want the kids to move around, but not bang on each other. So this is the one day we hit sleds, hit dummies, etc... Then we spend alot of time in group putting in our game plan for and against the run, and for and against the pass. Then we run about 10 plays of team on each side of the ball. Then we go inside and watch film of the previous game. This I guess you could not do unless it is against dummies or on air. I know this can get tough, especially for your defense. Tuesdays and Wednesday are heavy full, contact days so those are full go. Thursday is a walk through we only wear helmets to practice, and Fridays we play. I see where this could be a problem though, especially if you play Saturday games. (we do not). Anyway hope you get something that can help and best of luck .
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Post by cqmiller on Dec 20, 2013 12:15:48 GMT -6
if your guys holding shields and dummies go 100% Kids need to understand the rule, the reason for the rule, and how to prepare just as you would without the rule, with the rule.
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