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Post by 4slife0 on Dec 8, 2013 12:28:41 GMT -6
I'm trying to collect data from across the country on how states handle the issue. In Iowa we don't have any sort of multiplier or any other data to determine how big of a class you play other than your enrollment. I hope I can get some discussion on this topic.
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Post by fantom on Dec 8, 2013 12:41:26 GMT -6
In Virginia it's simple: public schools and private schools are in completely different associations. Our playoffs are separate, we're not in the same leagues, and we rarely play each other.
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Post by 4slife0 on Dec 8, 2013 12:50:11 GMT -6
That has been talked about here but we don't have enough private schools to facilitate that kind of move. I think that is probably the best case scenario if it is possible.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 8, 2013 12:50:30 GMT -6
I'm trying to collect data from across the country on how states handle the issue. In Iowa we don't have any sort of multiplier or any other data to determine how big of a class you play other than your enrollment. I hope I can get some discussion on this topic. There has been plenty of discussion on this topic here over the last few years. Try a google search including the terms coach huey public private coachhuey.com/thread/34884 is just one of them. |
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Post by 4slife0 on Dec 8, 2013 12:57:47 GMT -6
Sorry, Thanks. I haven't mastered the search function on this site yet.
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Post by realdawg on Dec 8, 2013 13:33:50 GMT -6
In NC most privates play in their own leagues. However, a few, like Charlotte Catholic, play in the public leagues. To do so they must pay to join the nchsaa and agree to follow all it's rules and guidelines.
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Post by k on Dec 8, 2013 13:37:26 GMT -6
Sorry, Thanks. I haven't mastered the search function on this site yet. We have multipliers in other sports but nothing for football. We play together and privates recruit heavily, give athletic scholarships, and greatly outperform public schools on a percentage basis. We're having the same difficulty with non-district public schools starting in the last few years. Kids hop from one magnet to another and "lotteries" are rigged so the coaches get their players. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 8, 2013 13:46:30 GMT -6
Sorry, Thanks. I haven't mastered the search function on this site yet. The proboards search function is the only weakness of this site, but the fix is easy. Just do a google search like I suggested, and it often produces the desired results. |
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Post by fballcoachg on Dec 8, 2013 14:14:38 GMT -6
They don't handle it in Ohio and that is the way it should be. I am a public school guy and I would never want the two split as I know that can create flat out recruiting (not just alleged) as I witnessed in TN. Plus, this year privates won 2 of 7 championships, that includes a 55-52 thriller, it's not always like that but there have been some classic battles in the past that would never have existed.
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Post by 4slife0 on Dec 8, 2013 15:48:48 GMT -6
I thought I had heard that Minnesota includes data such as free and reduced lunches and other data as well. I think the 1.85 multiplier in TN seems to be a bit high I just wonder how states settle on such a number that do use a multiplier.
In Iowa, I know recruiting goes on but I think the bigger issue is the difference in the have not's and the have's as always comes back to poverty. That's why I'm intrigued in using such data as free and reduced lunches and new homes being built in the district etc.
I've coached at both private and public so I can say the coaches were not the ones out recruiting but the youth parents are always keeping their eye out for talent and trying to woo the kids at a young age.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 8, 2013 16:11:41 GMT -6
In Iowa, I know recruiting goes on but I think the bigger issue is the difference in the have not's and the have's as always comes back to poverty. That's why I'm intrigued in using such data as free and reduced lunches and new homes being built in the district etc. YOu have to keep in mind, that is an awful lot of stuff to sort out and manipulate just for highschool ATHLETICS, which are a small part of the overall educational process. |
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Post by 4slife0 on Dec 8, 2013 16:16:11 GMT -6
True, but I know several states have done it.
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Post by 4slife0 on Dec 8, 2013 16:16:59 GMT -6
The easiest answer would be multiplier for sure.
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Post by coachbdud on Dec 8, 2013 16:53:56 GMT -6
CA combines everyone
it really isnt fair
private schools can bring in anyone they want
public schools cant, and if a kid transfers in without a legit move they have to miss 5 games... private schools dont have those issues
i wish we had separate divisions for public and private
a growing problem now is the rise of charter schools... more and more are popping up and we are beginning to see some of them really explode in football... they have the benefit of private school (being able to bring in players from outside of their normal geographic pool of feeders) and the benefit of public schools (free)
they are essentially free private schools
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2013 16:59:05 GMT -6
4slife0, in our state how do you think the fact we already have open enrollment plays in? I think our situation is a bit unique in that the public schools aren't necessary tied to the same boundaries schools in other states are.
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Post by 4slife0 on Dec 8, 2013 17:19:54 GMT -6
4slife0, in our state how do you think the fact we already have open enrollment plays in? I think our situation is a bit unique in that the public schools aren't necessary tied to the same boundaries schools in other states are. I don't think that recruiting per say is an issue here like it is in other places. I do think we have a major issue brewing. Especially, if the MAC/MVC decide in 4a to go to districts. This would push several private schools in those conferences into 3a and with you being in Keokuk could be a much bigger issue for the 3a schools in the east. |
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Post by 4slife0 on Dec 8, 2013 17:24:28 GMT -6
CA combines everyone
it really isnt fair
private schools can bring in anyone they want
public schools cant, and if a kid transfers in without a legit move they have to miss 5 games... private schools dont have those issues
i wish we had separate divisions for public and private
a growing problem now is the rise of charter schools... more and more are popping up and we are beginning to see some of them really explode in football... they have the benefit of private school (being able to bring in players from outside of their normal geographic pool of feeders) and the benefit of public schools (free)
they are essentially free private schoolsWho is paying for the charter schools then? We don't have any around here and I don't know much about those types of schools. Read more: coachhuey.com/thread/62288/public-private-state-handle?page=1&scrollTo=621421#ixzz2mvdoZouO
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Post by newhope on Dec 9, 2013 10:04:16 GMT -6
NC schools voted 235-51 to remove the private schools from the public league a year ago. However, 104 schools did not vote, so the required 3/4 majority of ALL schools was not reached and the measure failed.
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Post by coachbdud on Dec 9, 2013 11:09:41 GMT -6
CA combines everyone
it really isnt fair
private schools can bring in anyone they want
public schools cant, and if a kid transfers in without a legit move they have to miss 5 games... private schools dont have those issues
i wish we had separate divisions for public and private
a growing problem now is the rise of charter schools... more and more are popping up and we are beginning to see some of them really explode in football... they have the benefit of private school (being able to bring in players from outside of their normal geographic pool of feeders) and the benefit of public schools (free)
they are essentially free private schoolsWho is paying for the charter schools then? We don't have any around here and I don't know much about those types of schools. Read more: coachhuey.com/thread/62288/public-private-state-handle?page=1&scrollTo=621421#ixzz2mvdoZouO I'm not sure exactly how it works and I know one school in particular it took them a while to become a charter, they got all their staff to sign on saying they wanted to do it it basically lets them be free from the district they used to be in they still get the money from the state based on their daily attendance but they keep it all... its like being your own school in your own district... it is still free to the kids because the money comes form the government |
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beebe
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Post by beebe on Dec 9, 2013 11:20:36 GMT -6
In Louisiana we play in the same districts during the regular season but we are split public (non-select) and private/magnet (select). This is the first year that we have done this and we are still feeling our way through it....we will have nine (4 select and 5 non-select) state champions this weekend.
Originally there were supposed to be two select divisions but the privates argued that there was too much discrepancy between the really large privates and some of the smaller ones that would have to compete against one another, so they split it into 4 divisions.
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Post by realdawg on Dec 9, 2013 20:40:27 GMT -6
Idk about Ca but in NC charter schools are paid for by state funds but don't have to follow same guidelines as public schools for testing and requirements. Also can admit, deny, or expel anyone they chose. Basically as said a free private school. Which makes me think if these are the next great thing why not just let all publics act like a charter? They haven't really caught on in my part of the state yet.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 9, 2013 20:46:05 GMT -6
Idk about Ca but in NC charter schools are paid for by state funds but don't have to follow same guidelines as public schools for testing and requirements. Also can admit, deny, or expel anyone they chose. Basically as said a free private school. Which makes me think if these are the next great thing why not just let all publics act like a charter? They haven't really caught on in my part of the state yet. Because SOMEONE has to to educate the kids that aren't admitted or get expelled... |
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Post by Scott Bronkema on Dec 9, 2013 20:46:48 GMT -6
MI there is no determination factor except enrollment. Private and public play all the time.
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Post by John Knight on Dec 10, 2013 6:09:52 GMT -6
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Post by gibbs72 on Dec 10, 2013 6:45:55 GMT -6
Everyone the same in Kansas. . public or private
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Post by joboo59 on Dec 10, 2013 7:30:08 GMT -6
Everyone is in the same playoffs in Indiana, spread out over six classes based on enrollment.
However, we do have a Success Factor is place now. If a team earns six points over two years they are forced up one class. Sectional title is one point, Regional title, two points; Semi-State, three; State, four.
The problem is one good class of kids could put their team in a different class after they graduate. Nevertheless, I think it proved to work pretty well after year one. Private schools only won two of six titles this year, last year they only didn't win one...because they stay out of the biggest class.
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Post by fcboiler87 on Dec 10, 2013 8:15:18 GMT -6
Everyone is in the same playoffs in Indiana, spread out over six classes based on enrollment. However, we do have a Success Factor is place now. If a team earns six points over two years they are forced up one class. Sectional title is one point, Regional title, two points; Semi-State, three; State, four. The problem is one good class of kids could put their team in a different class after they graduate. Nevertheless, I think it proved to work pretty well after year one. Private schools only won two of six titles this year, last year they only didn't win one...because they stay out of the biggest class. I agree I like how it worked out for the state this year. But like you said who knows how it could work out down the road for some schools with a good class. Hopefully that will not be a big issue as I think the success factor did a nice job this year. |
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