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Post by coachmyers on Jul 17, 2006 10:19:20 GMT -6
would you hire (or not hire) someone based on their religious beliefs or lack thereof?
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Post by bulldog on Jul 17, 2006 10:59:08 GMT -6
That's really a loaded question. It can be translated to, "Would you discriminate and violate the law?"
Personally, I would just look at the character of the person, consider how they would fit with the other staff members, and what contributions they might make. I know I can teach anyone who is motivated enough football. Skin pigmentation, religion, etc. would really have no bearing on my decision. And I definitely do not look for someone who clone's my beliefs.
And another question - would you hire a female coach?
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Post by airman on Jul 17, 2006 11:00:10 GMT -6
i think it all depends. some religious schools only hire from the colleges which thier religion is from.
if you based nonhiring on what religion they are, you have just violated their consitutional rights. if it could be proved you did this, you open yourself up to a lawsuit.
i know in MLB, some teams do not want what the call Born Agains on the team.
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Post by brophy on Jul 17, 2006 11:01:07 GMT -6
If it were me, I'd hire the guy or gal that I can WORK with and get along with. Now if the guy / gal is a holy-roller or a Phillistine, and THAT is what gets in the way of us communicating, then "no" I wouldn't.
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Post by spreadattack on Jul 17, 2006 11:27:19 GMT -6
Not hiring someone based on religion is a pretty clear violation of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act. I suppose you could make an odd argument if you hired someone because of their religion, but anyone you did not hire probably has a lawsuit against you.
I don't really know what the law says exactly, but I think religiously affiliated parochial schools can use religion narrowly as a factor if they are linked to an organized religion, since I think common sense dictates that Catholic seminaries are allowed to prefer catholics (similar rationale goes to housing). Could still be an issue if it gets to football coaches. Always dangerous territory.
I don't really understand the purpose of the question though. Is there a situation you have in mind? Or is this just a general view of how much we value a football coach's religious preferences?
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Post by sls on Jul 17, 2006 12:04:11 GMT -6
I used to work for FCA and I believe that a not for profit religious organization can hire on religious beliefs. Therefore most christian schools can dictate who they hire based on religion.
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Post by chiefscoach on Jul 17, 2006 13:13:48 GMT -6
I'll be honest I would love to one day work for a Christian staff thats sold out for God because to me thats important but when I become a head coach I will not by any means avoid hiring someone because they are not a christian. If they can coach football and have good values that they can share with the kids I would hire them without thinking twice about it.
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Post by airman on Jul 17, 2006 13:25:40 GMT -6
I used to work for FCA and I believe that a not for profit religious organization can hire on religious beliefs. Therefore most christian schools can dictate who they hire based on religion. a private regilious school does not have to hire anyone who does not meet their standards. say you are living with your girlfriend or boyfriend and not married. they do not have to hire you for that reason. I know a private school which will not hire gays. they make it known on the application for hire. |
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 17, 2006 13:59:07 GMT -6
Found it interesting that Dordt College's (NAIA school in Iowa) new football coach commented in a recent interview - www.victorysportsnetwork.com - that the most important factor for him was the fact that the school was affiliated with the Christian Reformed Church. Not often a coach gets to choose a college (or other school) based upon his Faith. |
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Post by groundchuck on Jul 17, 2006 14:01:06 GMT -6
I used to work for FCA and I believe that a not for profit religious organization can hire on religious beliefs. Therefore most christian schools can dictate who they hire based on religion. a private regilious school does not have to hire anyone who does not meet their standards. say you are living with your girlfriend or boyfriend and not married. they do not have to hire you for that reason. I know a private school which will not hire gays. they make it known on the application for hire. It goes without saying that religiously affiliated schools want to hire people who go to thier church. This is niether good nor bad. Just so long as the school hires good people to teach and coach. I know of one instance where a coach was denied a job b/c of his religion (he is protestant, applying at a Catholic school). BUT he was also being considered for a teaching job and they wanted a Catholic teacher. Now in public schools I know of one coach in large district in my state who lost his job because he pushed religion too hard. It is a diverse community and he went a little too far. He was told by his superiors he needed to make some consessions and he refused to give in. My understanding is they were willing to compromise, he was not. Would I personnally hire or fire a coach based on his religious beliefs? If he can coach ball no. Unless he was practicing voodoo or human sacrifice in front of the kids, or he claimed to be a vampire then no. Or if he made some really dumb-ass comment about a certain religious or ethnic group based around religion...but then you are getting into conduct issues, not religion per se. |
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Post by tog on Jul 17, 2006 14:01:07 GMT -6
this has been a good thread so far
let's keep it that way people, as this (like politics) can be one of those issues that become divisive.
Good job so far.
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Post by coachbb on Jul 17, 2006 16:11:55 GMT -6
My personal opinion: I think the best man for the position should always get the job, regardless of religious faith. When you're on airplane, would you choose a pilot because of his religious beliefs or because of his proficiency in the field?
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Post by spreadattack on Jul 17, 2006 21:04:12 GMT -6
I want to work with great men of character, and to me two characteristics of great character is a conviction in one's own beliefs and a respect for others. One of the best people I ever knew was a coach who was a devout and great christian, but he'd have never told you unnanounced. Yet, somehow everyone knew. He was always available for the kids and for other coaches if you sought him out in private. I always thought if you were going to be spiritual that was the way to do it.
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Post by coachmyers on Jul 17, 2006 22:45:20 GMT -6
Well here's why I asked... I'm in a great situation now, I love where I'm at and it more than worked out for the best with me not getting the job....But... When I was looking to get into coaching about a year and a half ago I was looking to coach on a freshman team somewhere. When looking, I went through the past few seasons standings and looked for two things, a program that was doing at least consistantly marginally well and proximity. The closest school to me happened to be a Jesuit school that finished mid to high each year so I called up the coach. When I called him he sounded excited to have a young guy so excited about coaching and he asked me to come in for an interview. I went in and it went great...until he asked me about my religious life. I told him that I dont practice any religious beliefs but respect all beliefs. After I told him that, the interview was quickly wrapped up and I was told that their staff was set. So it seems to me that the decision was made based on religious beliefs. I dont think it was a matter of qualifications either, I played qb in hs and a season of wr at a D3 school and where I'm at now I was given the OC job in a coaching change. And we beat them...  Oh, and I'm not complaining, I'm just wondering |
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Post by goldenbear76 on Jul 17, 2006 23:29:10 GMT -6
You have to think about the other side here too. If you applied to a school that wouldn't hire you because your not of that religion..would you really want to coach there?
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Post by coachmyers on Jul 17, 2006 23:43:56 GMT -6
Youre stepping into a hot button issue there I think so I'm going to stay away from it.
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Post by spreadattack on Jul 18, 2006 6:25:37 GMT -6
I think what goldenbear was saying is that the Jesuit school probably at least tries to kind of teach and run a "holistic" program where football, school, and God all integrate and mesh, and it could be simply a job requirement that if you coach there you're expected to be open and talk about religion and help the young kids grow in theirs.
Since you said you don't have any religious preferences, and mostly are interested in the football side, I wouldn't think that it'd be bad to miss that. You might've been asked to do things you weren't comfortable doing or were uninterested in doing.
It is a Jesuit school, so it's not shocking that they tend to highly value that kind of thing.
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Post by sls on Jul 18, 2006 7:56:23 GMT -6
coachmyers,
I have come to the conclusion that there are a lot of christian (both protestant and catholic) that do not value religion. There are also many that make Jesus Christ as #1 priority. When I have talked to christian schools I always hope to hear that Christ is #1, but as a Christian I am always prepared to hear them say that Christ is not #1 in order to guard my self.
Maybe a non-christian should prepare themselves to hear that Christ is #1 in order to guard themselves?
Does that make any sense?
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Post by sls on Jul 18, 2006 8:00:44 GMT -6
How about this question.
We have several very consevative (not legalistic, but conservative) christian schools here in Indiana. When they come recruiting do you give them names of all of your seniors?
I don't, I give them the names of the kids that I know are Christians or who are open to that environment. I don't give them names of the kids who are party'ers or who would be anti- religion.
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Post by phantom on Jul 18, 2006 8:26:53 GMT -6
How about this question. We have several very consevative (not legalistic, but conservative) christian schools here in Indiana. When they come recruiting do you give them names of all of your seniors? I don't, I give them the names of the kids that I know are Christians or who are open to that environment. I don't give them names of the kids who are party'ers or who would be anti- religion. We've had a situation like that here in Virginia. Liberty University, formetly known as Liberty Baptist- Jerry Falwell's school, has opened up a little but used to be extremely conservative. Holding hands in public (that's a boy and a girl, BTW) was an expusion offense and shorts were taboo. Clearly,it would have been a waste of everybody's time to give them the names of most of our kids. Not every school is a good fit for everybody. Why send aa minimum qualifier's name to a tough academic school like William and Mary? If a kid's a free spirited slacker why waste VMI's time? I see the three situations as exectly the same. |
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 18, 2006 9:16:48 GMT -6
We're a Christian school in South Florida affiliated with the Presbyterian Church (PCA). Our school is an outreach ministry meaning our students may or may not be saved, but they have at least shown a sincere desire to be at our school. On the other hand, because our school is a ministry, our teachers and our coaches must profess a saving relationship with Jesus Christ. It's simply who we are.
I have sat in on many teacher interviews at our school and have seen some gifted teachers and coaches stuggle when asked to articulate their faith. It's not a failing on their part and it doesn't make them a "bad" person. But as our school is looking for teachers and coaches who do show and share their own personal faith, it does mean that they don't fit our hiring needs. Would you hire a teacher to run your weight room that had no experience in that area? Would you hire a coach as your OC to run your Double Wing Offense if he was a pass happy chuck and duck beliver? The answer is no. Faith based schools just have an additional requirement for their hiring.
Someone already asked the question. If you felt the school, coach, program was not a good fit for you why would you want to coach there?
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Post by coachmyers on Jul 18, 2006 10:46:55 GMT -6
Fair enough, and if the program is that involved in the religion I wish he would have said so because you're right, I wouldn't have been a good fit and would have gone away knowing that. I just didn't know that some programs were like that.
Anyway, I was just curious, so thank you all for your input.
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