custer
Freshmen Member
Posts: 26 
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Post by custer on May 12, 2006 19:21:26 GMT -6
This will be our 3rd year of running spread gun. We are in a run dominated league -Double tight- Straight T- Power I-DBL wing. Most teams we play throw the ball about 10% of the time. So the defenses that we are trying to scout will put 8,9, 10 or even 11 in the box. Obviously they won't run that vs. us.
How would you determine which of their personnel to attack? And what defense they will run?
We exchange films, we send scouts to film their DB and LB. We break down last 2 years of films.
I still feel we are guessing what defenses they will run.
Just wondering what everyone else does?
Thanks
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Post by coachjd on May 13, 2006 4:37:14 GMT -6
We are in the same boat. We use the previous years film along with what is their base defense and how would they align vs our multiple formations. What coverages can they play from their base defense, what blitzes etc...
Your right, it is a guessing game when you never see what they are doing on film. We try and prepare our kids for multiple looks the entire season just so we don't crap our pants on a Friday night if we see something that we did not prepare for.
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Post by realdawg on May 13, 2006 6:56:46 GMT -6
As a spread team, we face the same problem with teams, we go out on Friday nights sometimes with an educated guess at what they are going to do. Even worse, we will see teams who are 4-3 on film, and they will come out in a fifty or a 3-3 or something. Of course, most of the time, that benefits us b/c they are more confused than we are.
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Post by coachcb on May 13, 2006 9:40:47 GMT -6
Take a look at past film of your games and see which coverages were effective against your spread attack. If the DC has done his job, then thats what you're going to see. You can also tell alot by looking at the other teams schedule- if they have a few spread teams on the schedule, then they'll be better prepared. However, if the their schedule is loaded with running teams, expect their game plan to be off.
The best DC in our conference has the basics of two different defenses installed- a 4-3 and a 3-4. If the schedule is load with chuck n' duck teams, they spend the spring and summer polishing the 3-4, if not they stick with their 4-3.
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Post by bulldog on May 13, 2006 10:53:05 GMT -6
We are in the exact same boat. We have designed the offense - and the blocking rules - and the play calls - so that we don't care what front the defense uses. We use tempo (line-up on the ball ready to snap) so the defense has to line-up right away. That gives the OC a chance to see the front and quickly call the play. We start by practicing in the spring and summer against every front that we will see (from film study) - and repping against those fronts repeatedly. There really is a fundemantal set of fronts that can be run vs. spread.
The play calls can be 'Check with Me':
- plays that are run one side or the other depending on alignment, or
- plays that are not run vs. certain fronts and checked to a different play, or
- plays that have a QB read - such as a run play that has one receiver running a bubble screen or hitch to isolate a wide LB who cheats into the box.
We really don't watch much film game weeks on the offensive side since we really don't change the offense for an opponent. It's flexible enough to let us do what we want. The main thing we might get from film is defensive personnel.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2006 13:09:19 GMT -6
We have the same problem you guys do, but for the opposite reason--we run a Diamond T (inverted bone, double TE) in a pretty pass friendly conference. Even the run oriented teams do it out of a standard I formation. Last year was our first year of doing it and we will mainly be using those films for our preparation. When scouting we pay special attention to goal line sets short yardage sets for what we might see. We consistently spend scout team working against 5 and six man lines. I would do something like that if I was you guys meaning that no matter what the team shows on film, prepare against all types of 3-3, 4-3, and 4-2-5 variations. I'm sure you guys do this, but also make your run game as "rule defined" as possible so your kids can adjust easily to any front.
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Post by spreadattack on May 13, 2006 14:14:59 GMT -6
kw and everyone makes good points. Try to identify their "studs" and quickly identify where they are against you. This is a common phenomenon, and like someone said, it usually works in your favor.
One trick is to run some very basic things early while you figure out where they line up, or stuff where your rules and assignments aren't going to get so confused, like some 3-step with slide protection, screens, speed option and quick hitting run plays. Then once you get a better idea settle it down.
We always would try to throw a lot of almost random things at the kids so whatever they come up with they have "seen" it some, particularly in pass protection. Most of my specific "gameplanning" work comes at halftime and inbetween series's. We try to get with the QB and OL (That don't go both ways) and really get a handle on where they are and what they are doing. Usually the first and third quarters have been very good to us: the first because we go out and run our base stuff and they aren't as used to it; then they get a bit more settled but in the 3rd we come out up-tempo and have adjustments ready.
It does tend to make a lot of specific scouting somewhat meaningless, which can be frustrating if you felt very prepared going in.
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Post by blb on May 13, 2006 14:41:34 GMT -6
Being a Veer team, we often see a different defense on game night than in scout film. We tell the kids "We may have to punt the first 2-3 times, guys, but we'll get it figured out, and then we'll go!" If a team plays the defense we saw on film and practiced against all week, it's just a matter of blocking and executing. As someone posted above, communication with QB and OL is very important to us, too.
When looking at film I try to get their basic fronts, stunts, situational defenses (especially goalline), coverages. Last year's film on how they defended us sometimes is more instructive, particularly if they did a good job stopping us.
I want to find their "gorilla" and decide whether we read him, trap him, double him, or run away from him. Then I want to find their weakest defender, so we can attack him.
I come up with a preliminary plan on how we can run inside, IV or OV, how to get outside, automatics to use, and what pass patterns to emphasize (and from what formations). Having a good goalline plan is very important to me - when we get down there I don't want to blow the opportunity! Usually takes me until Tuesday to decide and I frequently eliminate stuff by Wednesday.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2006 17:51:56 GMT -6
Great point, blb! As long as you aren't turning it over, there is nothing wrong with not scoring the first couple of possessions!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2006 7:17:23 GMT -6
I think you guys that say you make the base rules, make adjustments, etc. on the run probably have the right idea since you never know what you'll get, and I think if I were running that I'd try to go the same way.
I finally talked to a great 5-wide OC who let me in on some of that secret and he and I talked at length about what gives them fits. It's not the surprise scheme they weren't expecting, because those guys that put it in from one week to the next aren't sound. It's not a great 1-front defense because he knows how to attack most things and even if the opposing defense is good, he'll still be able to pick on it a little bit.
But what he says hurts is a team that is like him--that has a specific set of rules and philosophy for playing his spread offense and can do different things to him from different looks. That means that you start prepping it in the spring or summer. By now I have a great spread defense that lets us play our base 4-3 or we can get into a 30 and run all of our same blitzes, etc. from that--just helps us disguise a bit what we do. Plus we have a few little 30 games we can play. Overall we really only increase our package by about 4 calls.
But they become part of our scheme in week 1. We know that if for some reason that veer team jumps into 5-wide,we've already got the scheme in place. We don't have to change things up, we have been doing it all along.
And we're flexible. If you think you'll get us in a 5-wide look and move guys around until you end up in a gun 2-back set and attack us, we will have possibly ended up in an 8-man front by that point.
The biggest point the OC I talked to made was that he has trouble with people who come into a game with a gameplan that is polished. He says that his goal is that the score is 14-0 int he 1st quarter by the time you figure out how to stop it. He says that the guys that put in that weekly spread defensive scheme don't realize that he doesn't care what you're in at the beginning of a game. To him, he is willing to sacrifice a few possessions early if it means that you have a false sense of security in what you're doing and if it buys him time to figure it out and where to beat it.
So when I sat down with our head coach to design our spread defense philosophy, we built from that idea. Now if you see what we did to you the year before, that's fine because we're doing a number of different things.
I think the bottom line is that you have to believe in what you do, but you have to do it early in the offseason.
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